These days, there's no shortage of tournaments with large prize pools. What sets the TSL apart?
TSL 1 and 2 had were essentially the most prestigious foreigner tournaments since there were so few BW events. TSL3 was able to ride off of the reputation of the first two TSLs, and also had the benefit of being relatively soon after the release of SC2. TSL4, in comparison, didn't seem have very much going for it. Even the hype seemed a lot more subdued.
On September 09 2012 14:39 neoghaleon55 wrote: I want to bring this up. The reason why TSL4 felt weak was because the players that made it to the later rounds lack exposure.
A lot of us don't even know who Sting is.
Written Interviews are not going to cut it anymore. Since this is already an online tournament, and we don't get to see much of the players anyway...
Suggestion: Try using Skype to interview the players. Fans need to see the competitor's faces, see their emotions, see their reaction to winning.
Without such, the tournament lacks the depth it strives to have. And the players lack the coverage they deserve.
this won't help. Nobody will admit it but people just wanna watch foreigners. Its stupid but people don't care how good the players all. They just wanna see mediocre foreigners like Goody and Nony somehow winning.
I don't think this is true. I want to see see the best of the best GSL players. If they make an attempt to speak english, all the better. I think Neo brings up something important. I knew very little about any of the 4 final players, and I think that TL did a poor job of introducing us to them.
There's no denying that there's a huge bias against koreans in the community.
I bought the ticket for this TSL, but i don't think i even saw 10 games.. I missed the final and with so many daily content i don't think i will catch the games i missed.
It was really lackluster, just another tournament full of koreans.. BW TSL meant something, the last TSL also had some meaning.. this one sucked imo!
More foreigners and less koreans that's what i say! Help improve the foreign community!
They now have 2 televised team leagues (PL + GSTL) and two televised leagues (GSL + OSL) then they have authobirths for every foreign tournament!
What will set a tournament apart from the rest will be more foreigners ! Atleast for me..
BTW i get my korean fix with GSL (always buy tickets), i don't need to be reminded they are the best, thank you! I just think that in order for us to evolve and since it's impossible to have a USA/euro televised league, we better have our own tournaments so that people have a reason to try.. instead of never getting any prize money!
I'm so appalled by the amount of racism in this thread. Criticizing a tournament just because people of certain ethnicity are in it is so pathetic. This is a game of skill, can we please stop talking about race and segregation?
Anyway, like I said, the core of the problem is lack of video interviews, productions.
Such as this.
Is it really so hard to make 1 video of creator and Life? Use that extra 1000 dollars you got from not flying them over, send a teamliquid staff to go film them at their team house!
On September 10 2012 03:15 shell wrote: I bought the ticket for this TSL, but i don't think i even saw 10 games.. I missed the final and with so many daily content i don't think i will catch the games i missed.
It was really lackluster, just another tournament full of koreans.. BW TSL meant something, the last TSL also had some meaning.. this one sucked imo!
More foreigners and less koreans that's what i say! Help improve the foreign community!
They now have 2 televised team leagues (PL + GSTL) and two televised leagues (GSL + OSL) then they have authobirths for every foreign tournament!
What will set a tournament apart from the rest will be more foreigners ! Atleast for me..
BTW i get my korean fix with GSL (always buy tickets), i don't need to be reminded they are the best, thank you! I just think that in order for us to evolve and since it's impossible to have a USA/euro televised league, we better have our own tournaments so that people have a reason to try.. instead of never getting any prize money!
The problem is even if they only invited two Korean players, and rest foreign, we would still see those 2 Koreans in the final. And if you don't invite Koreans at all, then you get shit games cause foreigners can't play
On September 10 2012 03:21 neoghaleon55 wrote: I'm so appalled by the amount of racism in this thread. Criticizing a tournament just because people of certain ethnicity are in it is so pathetic. This is a game of skill, can we please stop talking about race and segregation?
Anyway, like I said, the core of the problem is lack of video interviews, productions.
Is it really so hard to make 1 video of creator and Life? Use that extra 1000 dollars you got from not flying them over, send a teamliquid staff to go film them at their team house!
Racism? What we are talking about is if all the basketball tournaments. leagues, cups etc.. were only with NBA players! Is that racism?
Fuck if all the NBA players were black, it still wouldn't be racism. Do you want to see all your movies with Brad Pitt? All the talk shows with Oprah? All football games with Barcelona and Real Madrid? Obama your president for ever? Can i see other players perform? Can i see other players have a win?
Duh how the fuck is this racism? I'm simply tired of full korean mode in all tournaments, like i said i pay for my daily dose of koreans (GSL), that's where the best are at, i don't to see them all day in every tournament.
How are we suposed to evolve if everyone allready thinks, they will lose against the koreans?
On September 10 2012 03:15 shell wrote: I bought the ticket for this TSL, but i don't think i even saw 10 games.. I missed the final and with so many daily content i don't think i will catch the games i missed.
It was really lackluster, just another tournament full of koreans.. BW TSL meant something, the last TSL also had some meaning.. this one sucked imo!
More foreigners and less koreans that's what i say! Help improve the foreign community!
They now have 2 televised team leagues (PL + GSTL) and two televised leagues (GSL + OSL) then they have authobirths for every foreign tournament!
What will set a tournament apart from the rest will be more foreigners ! Atleast for me..
BTW i get my korean fix with GSL (always buy tickets), i don't need to be reminded they are the best, thank you! I just think that in order for us to evolve and since it's impossible to have a USA/euro televised league, we better have our own tournaments so that people have a reason to try.. instead of never getting any prize money!
The problem is even if they only invited two Korean players, and rest foreign, we would still see those 2 Koreans in the final. And if you don't invite Koreans at all, then you get shit games cause foreigners can't play
Foreigners can't play? lol.. so you only watch the Yankees, Lakers/heat/Thunder.. you only watch the best? Why even have NCAA for instance? Let's just end all the college leagues of every sport, lets ban all nations for the olympics and go with the best China vs USA vs Russia, just 3 is enought..
On September 10 2012 03:15 shell wrote: I bought the ticket for this TSL, but i don't think i even saw 10 games.. I missed the final and with so many daily content i don't think i will catch the games i missed.
It was really lackluster, just another tournament full of koreans.. BW TSL meant something, the last TSL also had some meaning.. this one sucked imo!
More foreigners and less koreans that's what i say! Help improve the foreign community!
They now have 2 televised team leagues (PL + GSTL) and two televised leagues (GSL + OSL) then they have authobirths for every foreign tournament!
What will set a tournament apart from the rest will be more foreigners ! Atleast for me..
BTW i get my korean fix with GSL (always buy tickets), i don't need to be reminded they are the best, thank you! I just think that in order for us to evolve and since it's impossible to have a USA/euro televised league, we better have our own tournaments so that people have a reason to try.. instead of never getting any prize money!
The problem is even if they only invited two Korean players, and rest foreign, we would still see those 2 Koreans in the final. And if you don't invite Koreans at all, then you get shit games cause foreigners can't play
Foreigners can't play? lol.. so you only watch the Yankees, Lakers/heat/Thunder.. you only watch the best? Why even have NCAA for instance? Let's just end all the college leagues of every sport, lets ban all nations for the olympics and go with the best China vs USA vs Russia, just 3 is enought..
Stupid mentality
What? There are A LOT of people with that mentality lol... How many people watch Minor League Baseball? How many people watch Euro Basketball over NBA? People watch NCAA sports knowing the level of competition is much lower, but usually have some sentimental connection to the team. It's the same here.
Personally, I'd rather watch 2 top tier players I have no idea about over 2 well known foreigners.
IMO tlnet failed in covering their own event and that's the main reason why it was so underwhelming. That and it being riddled with technical problems almost every weekend. With the first coupe of games i missed I went on tlnet and tried to find coverage, interviews, whatever that could tell me about how the games turned out or about the players, only to find nothing. after a short while of not being able to watch because of hours of downtime and not being able to find out what i missed i stopped caring. It's like tlnet couldn't be bothered to hype up their own tournament, It's not of a lack of story lines or interesting personalities, those come from someone who puts them on paper or fleshes them out to the world.
On September 10 2012 03:21 neoghaleon55 wrote: I'm so appalled by the amount of racism in this thread. Criticizing a tournament just because people of certain ethnicity are in it is so pathetic.
To say that the Korean professional scene is different to the nonkorean scene is not racist; its a comment based not on ethnicity but reality. People are not against korean players because they are korean. They are against them because they are a product of a comparatively faceless professional scene that overpowers all competition, thus removing interest.
I found that I was really pumped at first but the more the tourny went on the more I lost interest. For me it definitely makes a difference that there were no foreign players that went too far. I am more likely to be interested in someone I am more familiar with doing well, especially if they are an underdog.
The casting for all rounds of the qualifiers and the final bracket was good. Maybe TL could try to do more to let us get to know the players more.
It seems that many people blame tournament organizers for there being koreans. TL is not responsible for foreigners being bad at Starcraft compared to koreans. You may grieve openly for the lack of foreign skill in Starcraft, but blaming people other than the foreigners in question is silly beyond belief.
On September 10 2012 03:15 shell wrote: I bought the ticket for this TSL, but i don't think i even saw 10 games.. I missed the final and with so many daily content i don't think i will catch the games i missed.
It was really lackluster, just another tournament full of koreans.. BW TSL meant something, the last TSL also had some meaning.. this one sucked imo!
More foreigners and less koreans that's what i say! Help improve the foreign community!
They now have 2 televised team leagues (PL + GSTL) and two televised leagues (GSL + OSL) then they have authobirths for every foreign tournament!
What will set a tournament apart from the rest will be more foreigners ! Atleast for me..
BTW i get my korean fix with GSL (always buy tickets), i don't need to be reminded they are the best, thank you! I just think that in order for us to evolve and since it's impossible to have a USA/euro televised league, we better have our own tournaments so that people have a reason to try.. instead of never getting any prize money!
The problem is even if they only invited two Korean players, and rest foreign, we would still see those 2 Koreans in the final. And if you don't invite Koreans at all, then you get shit games cause foreigners can't play
Or perhaps we don't see final like that. There is no denying that TSL5 should reduce korean spots drastically (at least if they invite top3 again) to give foreigners chance to win. If you have too many korean spots then its more likely that foreigners wont do well as they have to win harder opponents.
Less spots from qualifiers (tournament starts earlier too) and more high profile/successful foreigners invited and less delay for starting tournament.
My seeding suggestion for TSL5 is
Seeds & Spots:
3 - TOP3 (as 3 Koreans already, less Korean invites) 3 - Korean invite 1 - Super Korean qualifier with BO5 starting from RO32 1 - Asian Non-Korean invite (Taiwan or Chinese player) 20 - Foreign invites (divided by Europe/America/SEA?) where EU gets more slots 2 - EU Super qualifiers 2 - US Super qualifiers(Or divided 3-1 favor of EU slots)
On September 10 2012 07:36 Doubting wrote: They should just make a foreigner only tournament to please all the idiots who won't watch great Starcraft because there are no white players.
I realize that you're new to the site, but this is hilarious. The origins of the TSL (i.e. TSL1 and TSL2) were exactly what you're describing. They were foreigner only tournaments, and they were beloved by the scene. (I don't want to come down on one side of the Korean/No-Korean debate right now, but it's funny to me that you're mocking the very history of the tournament you're trying to defend.)
On September 10 2012 07:36 Doubting wrote: They should just make a foreigner only tournament to please all the idiots who won't watch great Starcraft because there are no white players.
I realize that you're new to the site, but this is hilarious. The origins of the TSL (i.e. TSL1 and TSL2) were exactly what you're describing. They were foreigner only tournaments, and they were beloved by the scene. (I don't want to come down on one side of the Korean/No-Korean debate right now, but it's funny to me that you're mocking the very history of the tournament you're trying to defend.)
I don't think it was even possible for TL.net to contact/invite korean BW pros to TSL 1 and 2 lol, not that they would have even if they could.
a lot of well known foreigner pros only tried once or twice to qualify...some of didnt even try. From my point of view...this is questionable. Seems like they didnt care that much...i dont know...
Maybe there is too much high prize tournaments...TSL3 was special for me...cause it was something new...
There need to be "big names" seeded into TSL5 to make it more exciting for most people.
The art direction in TSL4 had its pros and cons. I think it could have succeeded without the artist taking his own liberties in breaking the standards (e.g. making Zerg blue and making Terran red). I think the best work that was the most "TSL" in flavour was the introduction animation (but the music was terrible). The player profile cards however, with players being either infested or empowered, were goofy and childish.
As I said before, the music for TSL was horrible. I don't want to listen to some post-2000 garage band punk music when I'm watching the premier online SC2 tournement. TSL3 was incredibly professional, epic, and just had a unique way of captivating you when you watched the introduction.
I agree that overall, TSL3 was waaay more interesting compared to TSL4. However, TSL3's success was coming from facts that couldn't happen during TSL4: it was maybe the first big tournament (1) with a lot of koreans in an foreigner setting, (2) koreans losing, (3) new players being hyped on such a scale (like LiquidTyler's photo with a mug of coffee and his feet on a desk saying ez pz or Mondragon's coming in SC2 with mass roaches), (4) underdogs winning (Thorzain defeating time after time strong protosses, THEN a strong terran THEN Nani in finals) and the videos surrounding the matches like Havlat Terran (sp?). Those are just examples, but in the end, imho, I think TSL3 happened at the right time and had a bit of luck to its success which TSL4 just couldn't tap into.
EPT
