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hi folks,
first of all, i have to say, that i really LOVE the TSL, and im very excited about the games
.. again and again....
BUT to me, the only thing thats kinda "boring" it that there are 5 Maps,
that are just in different orders.
so my suggestion for the future (i dont think this will be good im the actual TSL)
is to bring up a mappool of, maybe 10-12 Maps.
For every Round (of 32, 16, 8, 4 and finals), the TL-Admins will select 2 maps out of the pool.
the last 3 will be chosen from the Tl.net community via poll one week before start.
(highest percentage map= 3rd, 2nd percentage = 4th, 3rd percentage = 5th)
example:
Ro16:
Set Maps : Blue Storm, Andromeda (admins)
Community Maps: Poll out of the remaining 8-10 Maps out of the mappool.
eventuall mapset: Blue Storm, Andromeda, Fighting Spirit, Londinus, Destination
(or whatever)
there could be of course be a mappool thats filled up with todays maps,
aswell as good former maps :D
maybe like:
+ Show Spoiler +
Match Point
Fighting Spirit
Destination
Andromeda
Wuthering Heights
New Heartbreak Ridge
Outsider SE
Phthon
Othello
Longinus
Tau Cross
Blue Storm
Lost Temple (!!)
Katrina
Luna (final)
Hunters
Legacy of Char
well i know, that this arent the most played ones nowerdays, but everyone knows them.
i really loved to play all of them (except some of the newest)
so far
ScarPe
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Maps chosen by the community is generally not a good idea because of the smartasses. A better solution would be to have a 7 map pool each player removes a map and then you have 5. Or 9 maps each player removes 2 maps that kind of thing. The problem with this is if you include a horrible map everyone will remove it so it will never get played so the map pool has to be pretty good.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
I think it'd would be really awesome if TSL #3 included one community designed map.
Much like Husky's contest, map designs could be submitted, they could then be played by the TSL admins, and then a select few finalists would be released to the general populace to test, possibly in the time between the ending of the ladder and the beginning of the prelims. After testing, one map would be chosen for inventiveness and balance, and then would be played in the actual TSL.
I think that would be an awesome way to encourage foreign map makers and to give players an added challenge.
But the other maps are alright, I really don't have any big problem with the TSL maps, and I don't think many people do really.
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@Realcun: i thing, then we would see the same maps over and over again
@tree.hugger: those maps will have a complete lack of balancing...
progaming maps are played/tested by the teams like half a year before they are played on tv.
i think, those maps are fine, but i'd like to see more variation mapwise
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I really like all of the maps as a matter of fact.
The least favorite is Tornado, maybe another 4player map could have been there, or even HBR...
but still... I love all these maps and think it always presents a good series for determining who is better... which is really important here.
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So seeing the same 5 maps seems "boring" but it's better for the map pool to seem "boring" and for the maps to be balanced and be a good test. If you try to make the map pool too interesting you can wind up with maps that no player wants to play on in the pool.
I have no problem with community designed maps as long as they're tested heavily, I just meant the community picking the map thing can get iffy. Notice that in husky's thread ultimately he's picking the final 3 just taking the community's suggestions in mind.
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On February 10 2010 03:24 ScarPe wrote:
@Realcun: i thing, then we would see the same maps over and over again
@tree.hugger: those maps will have a complete lack of balancing...
progaming maps are played/tested by the teams like half a year before they are played on tv.
i think, those maps are fine, but i'd like to see more variation mapwise
Lack of extensive testing doesn't always imply lack of balance, and you can look at promaps and see huge imbalances left after progamers tested them for half a year or whatever actual amount of time it is.
The biggest problem with including user-made maps is that the only people you could practice the map with would be other TSL players, which would make it hard to hide your style or strategy. The biggest practice pool is in koreans on iccup, and they wouldn't play user-made maps even if they got into the iccup map pool and were made motw, they only play courage, desti, and python.
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As shown by Faoi? Not trying to be mean here just it made it into the map pool but the koreans flat out refused to play it even when it was MOTW.
edit- Hell non koreans refused to play it as well. Koreans arent the only ones who want to play the Courage maps, OSL maps etc.
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United States4796 Posts
On February 10 2010 03:40 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
As shown by Faoi? Not trying to be mean here just it made it into the map pool but the koreans flat out refused to play it even when it was MOTW.
edit- Hell non koreans refused to play it as well. Koreans arent the only ones who want to play the Courage maps, OSL maps etc.
Faoi wasn't even that bad of a map. Fun actually. Like Enarey.
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Not saying it was a bad map just people refused to play it partially because it had no exposure from the Korean scene. Maps that get added cuz they're in the PL, OSL, MSL those all get played but when a community map comes through it's rarely played on iCCup.
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well thats not the point,
there could be of course be a mappool thats filled up with todays maps,
aswell as good former maps :D
maybe like:
+ Show Spoiler +
Match Point
Fighting Spirit
Destination
Andromeda
Wuthering Heights
New Heartbreak Ridge
Outsider SE
Phthon
Othello
Longinus
Tau Cross
Blue Storm
Lost Temple (!!)
Katrina
Luna (final)
Hunters
Legacy of Char
well i know, that this arent the most played ones nowerdays, but everyone knows them.
i really loved to play all of them (except some of the newest)
(edited this into the mainpost)
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
- Consider the balance on those maps...
- Consider how many games TSL players can get on iccup to practice on those maps...
- Reconsider your argument.
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Rather a suggestion then an argument imo
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I would hate to have to practice for potentially twelve or so maps over the course of a tournament.
It might be more interesting for the viewers, but it would be a huge workload for the players.
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@kennigit: those maps are just an example of a mappool
in addition, via TSL ladder, there are hundreds/thousands of players who play those maps.
AND those arent completely new ones, evereyone has played them... yes its long ago, but they did!
@crate: same for you, those arent completely new maps, everyone has played them as they were popular.
in terms of balancing
some of the really old maps were imbalanced, as they were popular,
BUT the style starcraft was played was completely different, too.
exaple Lost Temple stats:
they are pretty balanced, and they were played hundets of times(!!)
+ Show Spoiler +
TvZ: 235-173 (57.6%)
ZvP: 144-132 (52.2%)
PvT: 103-125 (45.2%)
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8751 Posts
On February 10 2010 07:14 ScarPe wrote:
@kennigit: those maps are just an example of a mappool
in addition, via TSL ladder, there are hundreds/thousands of players who play those maps.
AND those arent completely new ones, evereyone has played them... yes its long ago, but they did!
kolll definitely hasn't. Anyway, playing them for a period of time years ago isn't good enough for TSL-level play. Preparation needs to be recent and voluminous.
More maps solves the problem of stagnant styles of play. Too many maps lowers the skill level at which each map is played. It's best to use as few maps as possible. That is accomplished by only adding maps when there is a problem. There is no problem with the styles of play in the TSL.
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moonglaive
tornado
desti
andro
heartbreak
matchpoint
outsider
ftw!
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Typically we poll the top players and then look at the most played/most balanced maps. We will under no circumstances include maps just becuase it would be a cool thing to do. I'd love to see nony vs idra bo5 on monty hall because it would be hilarious...just not good for the tournament or the players.
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Norway28874 Posts
we want people to have as perfected play as possible. if they're forced to practice 9, or even 7 different maps this makes it a lot less likely that anyone can prepare special strategies for all the different maps, and rather that people just play "standard".
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I'm pretty content with having 5 recently-made balanced maps played in the TSL. I personally prefer to have no 2 or 3 player maps so players will have to adjust their strategies based on spawning locations.
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I think more and different maps makes the game exciting and adds a level of uncertainty which as a player i enjoy to watch.
I think it also spurs creativity for example Nal_ra's hallucinated arbiters on an island map. I'd like to see island maps and just more vairety.
Just my opinion as a fan.
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the fewer maps makes the player have to play less maps which creates better quality of games
besides if u keep adding maps it will most likely create an imba map pool, atm they have a nice mix of 5 maps which favor different races on different maps
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United States11393 Posts
If the map pool had HBR instead of Andro then it would be absolutely perfect.
Only almost perfect as it is. 
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The current map pool might be boring to you but to me it is perfect. The only way to ensure proper training times and familiarity with the maps for the players is to have a fixed map pool like we have now. Those are all very good maps and a lot of effort and consideration went into the decision process for these five maps. They are played often in general, you can practice them without a problem and they are recent enough to provide fun and entertainment.
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Hyrule19230 Posts
The entirety of TSL3 should be played on The Hunters.
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What if a bunch of Zerg fanboys decided "Hey, of the maps left, these three are SUPER zerg favored. I want to give... Mondragon as much of an advantage as possible!" *vote*
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On February 18 2010 07:42 s[O]rry wrote:
What if a bunch of Zerg fanboys decided "Hey, of the maps left, these three are SUPER zerg favored. I want to give... Mondragon as much of an advantage as possible!" *vote*
Then some others should stop their BM  .
I like the Mappool... One *weird* map wouldn't hurt but actually... we got something like that with Outsider. So... I just like it.
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I agree about andromeda, it's really old dunno how it made to the map pool, pretty imba in balance as well.
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For the best of 7 will both players just select a map they want played twice?
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The deciding sets will obivously be played on BGH and Blood Bath.
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EPT
