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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
I really dislike the Artosis tempban. I want you guys to read Nony's post:
I'm not a fan of map discussions without stats. But that's just me. People should take this for what it's worth. A ton of people are undervaluing this and some are overvaluing this.
Imagine chat channels existed (it's a stretch, I know) and you happened to join one with Artosis and IdrA in it. You're a Zerg player and you've been wondering how the different maps change how Zerg works. You get up the courage to ask these people for their opinions... and to your surprise, not only do they answer you, but they write 1000's of words on it. That kinda stuff is pure gold to a ton of people.
It's not about proving which map is balanced one way or the other. It's just that in their thousands of games played, Artosis and IdrA have noticed that some maps are very good for them as Zerg and some are pretty bad. That's interesting. It's the first step in understanding how certain features of maps are going to favor particular races.
This forum is for discussion folks, not critiquing. Evaluating and judging OP's like this is a waste. Engage in the discussion and grapple with the ideas.
Even after such a good post, that could have lead towards the right direction, many users continued to flame Artosis for his opinions/insights. Every fifth post was an attempt to derail the discussion towards a "Letz flame Artosis because he is so biased and famous"-thread.
I agree that he did not react cool, and he attacked a poster that had nothing to do with it...
But in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to go this far. The mods should have took action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. But they didn't.
Why didn't they support Artosis earlyer to prevent this? Now the thread had to be closed. It is like shitting on a contributors work. Yeah, I know that Artosis is not known for his diplomatic skills. But the mods know that too and they failed to support him.
Nony showed how it could be done with his post. Take an example!
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On June 21 2010 17:32 clickrush wrote:I really dislike the Artosis tempban. I want you guys to read Nony's post: Show nested quote +I'm not a fan of map discussions without stats. But that's just me. People should take this for what it's worth. A ton of people are undervaluing this and some are overvaluing this.
Imagine chat channels existed (it's a stretch, I know) and you happened to join one with Artosis and IdrA in it. You're a Zerg player and you've been wondering how the different maps change how Zerg works. You get up the courage to ask these people for their opinions... and to your surprise, not only do they answer you, but they write 1000's of words on it. That kinda stuff is pure gold to a ton of people.
It's not about proving which map is balanced one way or the other. It's just that in their thousands of games played, Artosis and IdrA have noticed that some maps are very good for them as Zerg and some are pretty bad. That's interesting. It's the first step in understanding how certain features of maps are going to favor particular races.
This forum is for discussion folks, not critiquing. Evaluating and judging OP's like this is a waste. Engage in the discussion and grapple with the ideas. Even after such a good post, that could have lead towards the right direction, many users continued to flame Artosis for his opinions/insights. Every fifth post was an attempt to derail the discussion towards a "Letz flame Artosis because he is so biased and famous"-thread. I agree that he did not react cool, and he attacked a poster that had nothing to do with it... But in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to go this far. The mods should have took action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. But they didn't. Why didn't they support Artosis earlyer to prevent this? Now the thread had to be closed. It is like shitting on a contributors work. Yeah, I know that Artosis is not known for his diplomatic skills. But the mods know that too and they failed to support him. Nony showed how it could be done with his post. Take an example!
actually they did take action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. FA posted a number of times to try to get artosis to chill out, but his efforts were for naught.
everyone understands that the OP was tolerable, its artosis' way of handling the comments that was deplorable.
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On June 21 2010 17:37 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2010 17:32 clickrush wrote:I really dislike the Artosis tempban. I want you guys to read Nony's post: I'm not a fan of map discussions without stats. But that's just me. People should take this for what it's worth. A ton of people are undervaluing this and some are overvaluing this.
Imagine chat channels existed (it's a stretch, I know) and you happened to join one with Artosis and IdrA in it. You're a Zerg player and you've been wondering how the different maps change how Zerg works. You get up the courage to ask these people for their opinions... and to your surprise, not only do they answer you, but they write 1000's of words on it. That kinda stuff is pure gold to a ton of people.
It's not about proving which map is balanced one way or the other. It's just that in their thousands of games played, Artosis and IdrA have noticed that some maps are very good for them as Zerg and some are pretty bad. That's interesting. It's the first step in understanding how certain features of maps are going to favor particular races.
This forum is for discussion folks, not critiquing. Evaluating and judging OP's like this is a waste. Engage in the discussion and grapple with the ideas. Even after such a good post, that could have lead towards the right direction, many users continued to flame Artosis for his opinions/insights. Every fifth post was an attempt to derail the discussion towards a "Letz flame Artosis because he is so biased and famous"-thread. I agree that he did not react cool, and he attacked a poster that had nothing to do with it... But in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to go this far. The mods should have took action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. But they didn't. Why didn't they support Artosis earlyer to prevent this? Now the thread had to be closed. It is like shitting on a contributors work. Yeah, I know that Artosis is not known for his diplomatic skills. But the mods know that too and they failed to support him. Nony showed how it could be done with his post. Take an example! actually they did take action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. FA posted a number of times to try to get artosis to chill out, but his efforts were for naught.
lol...
FA didnt take action. He criticised the article and Artosis' behaviour. The first is ok but the latter is something you do over PMs. Why didnt they continue with Nony's dircetion? The mods do accept when a contributor is getting flamed and the users try to derail the discussion into a anti-Artosis thread instead of discussing whats in his article. And then they wonder why Artosis gets angry?
Think about it: if they did support him and if they started to take care of the guys who did not even read the article and the other posts in this thread, then it could have been a very interesting discussion. If you skim through the thread now, then you find some smart things here and there.
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On June 21 2010 17:51 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2010 17:37 mOnion wrote:On June 21 2010 17:32 clickrush wrote:I really dislike the Artosis tempban. I want you guys to read Nony's post: I'm not a fan of map discussions without stats. But that's just me. People should take this for what it's worth. A ton of people are undervaluing this and some are overvaluing this.
Imagine chat channels existed (it's a stretch, I know) and you happened to join one with Artosis and IdrA in it. You're a Zerg player and you've been wondering how the different maps change how Zerg works. You get up the courage to ask these people for their opinions... and to your surprise, not only do they answer you, but they write 1000's of words on it. That kinda stuff is pure gold to a ton of people.
It's not about proving which map is balanced one way or the other. It's just that in their thousands of games played, Artosis and IdrA have noticed that some maps are very good for them as Zerg and some are pretty bad. That's interesting. It's the first step in understanding how certain features of maps are going to favor particular races.
This forum is for discussion folks, not critiquing. Evaluating and judging OP's like this is a waste. Engage in the discussion and grapple with the ideas. Even after such a good post, that could have lead towards the right direction, many users continued to flame Artosis for his opinions/insights. Every fifth post was an attempt to derail the discussion towards a "Letz flame Artosis because he is so biased and famous"-thread. I agree that he did not react cool, and he attacked a poster that had nothing to do with it... But in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to go this far. The mods should have took action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. But they didn't. Why didn't they support Artosis earlyer to prevent this? Now the thread had to be closed. It is like shitting on a contributors work. Yeah, I know that Artosis is not known for his diplomatic skills. But the mods know that too and they failed to support him. Nony showed how it could be done with his post. Take an example! actually they did take action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. FA posted a number of times to try to get artosis to chill out, but his efforts were for naught. lol... FA didnt take action. He criticised the article and Artosis' behaviour. The first is ok but the latter is something you do over PMs. Why didnt they continue with Nony's dircetion? The mods do accept when a contributor is getting flamed and the users try to derail the discussion into a anti-Artosis thread instead of discussing whats in his article. And then they wonder why Artosis gets angry? Think about it: if they did support him and if they started to take care of the guys who did not even read the article and the other posts in this thread, then it could have been a very interesting discussion. If you skim through the thread now, then you find some smart things here and there.
I'm pretty sure they took action by PM as well, as Chills follow-up post in the ban thread states.
I haven't read the actual thread though, so I won't comment on the ban itself.
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I'm pretty sure that if anyone "non-famous" had written that OP and acted like artosis did, we would've been banned way before. Heck, anyone writing an OP like that one would be bashed to hell and back due to how one-sided and the bad arguments. On the other hand I think it is a very relevant discussion, and had artosis/idra put a bit more effort into their article (and not expected everyone to just fall on their knees in praise) it would've been an excellent thread.
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On June 21 2010 17:56 pettter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2010 17:51 clickrush wrote:On June 21 2010 17:37 mOnion wrote:On June 21 2010 17:32 clickrush wrote:I really dislike the Artosis tempban. I want you guys to read Nony's post: I'm not a fan of map discussions without stats. But that's just me. People should take this for what it's worth. A ton of people are undervaluing this and some are overvaluing this.
Imagine chat channels existed (it's a stretch, I know) and you happened to join one with Artosis and IdrA in it. You're a Zerg player and you've been wondering how the different maps change how Zerg works. You get up the courage to ask these people for their opinions... and to your surprise, not only do they answer you, but they write 1000's of words on it. That kinda stuff is pure gold to a ton of people.
It's not about proving which map is balanced one way or the other. It's just that in their thousands of games played, Artosis and IdrA have noticed that some maps are very good for them as Zerg and some are pretty bad. That's interesting. It's the first step in understanding how certain features of maps are going to favor particular races.
This forum is for discussion folks, not critiquing. Evaluating and judging OP's like this is a waste. Engage in the discussion and grapple with the ideas. Even after such a good post, that could have lead towards the right direction, many users continued to flame Artosis for his opinions/insights. Every fifth post was an attempt to derail the discussion towards a "Letz flame Artosis because he is so biased and famous"-thread. I agree that he did not react cool, and he attacked a poster that had nothing to do with it... But in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to go this far. The mods should have took action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. But they didn't. Why didn't they support Artosis earlyer to prevent this? Now the thread had to be closed. It is like shitting on a contributors work. Yeah, I know that Artosis is not known for his diplomatic skills. But the mods know that too and they failed to support him. Nony showed how it could be done with his post. Take an example! actually they did take action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. FA posted a number of times to try to get artosis to chill out, but his efforts were for naught. lol... FA didnt take action. He criticised the article and Artosis' behaviour. The first is ok but the latter is something you do over PMs. Why didnt they continue with Nony's dircetion? The mods do accept when a contributor is getting flamed and the users try to derail the discussion into a anti-Artosis thread instead of discussing whats in his article. And then they wonder why Artosis gets angry? Think about it: if they did support him and if they started to take care of the guys who did not even read the article and the other posts in this thread, then it could have been a very interesting discussion. If you skim through the thread now, then you find some smart things here and there. I'm pretty sure they took action by PM as well, as Chills follow-up post in the ban thread states. I haven't read the actual thread though, so I won't comment on the ban itself.
what I criticise is that they took action towards Artosis only. And not towards the flamers in his thread. Chill's response shows this. He declared those flames and derailing attempts as criticism...
Sometimes, I actually just think Artosis is trolling.
I really like him, and he's an awesome player, but as MorroW said he tends to get very onesided and defensive of his own race in balance discussions.
Seriously, this article is so biased it's insane.
i think this is bullshit ³³.
no symmetric maps is imbalanced at all. you just have different play styles on each.
longer scout distances for overlords on kulas ? OH NOOO... learn to handle it.. starcraft 2 isnt chess where you have the same gameplay each round.
remember the broodwar map blaze (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/99_Neo%20Blaze.jpg) or dire straits (http://classic.battle.net/images/battle/scc/lp/4/xd.jpg) ?
i rebuild those both maps for sc2 and i wouldnt say they are imbalanced for any race.
with terran on blaze you can easily drop the cliffs while you enemy have to react. so what ? it still isnt imbalanced, just a different gameplay experience.
dont have to say a word to dire (island map).
so please stop whining about imbaness of starcraft, couse no one of "us" has the skill/experience /authority to say something about balancing.
thank you
ps: sorry for my bad english
Even if my opinion doesnt count, I agree with him that you are biased most of the time when you talk about zerg. You produced a nice effort to make your point, but you could be a little bit more objective. Then again I'm not saying I know better than you but the whole post had a feeling of whining behind it in my opinion.
And I agree that those maps suck. But not to the point where zerg can't win at all.
Has artosis or idra ever come close to admitting imbalance in favor of whatever race they're currently playing? in sc1 or sc2.
Here's something artosis or idra have never ever said:
"Damn, I lost that game because I got outplayed -- balance probably didn't factor in here"
Has artosis or idra ever come close to admitting imbalance in favor of whatever race they're currently playing? in sc1 or sc2.
Here's something artosis or idra have never ever said:
"Damn, I lost that game because I got outplayed -- balance probably didn't factor in here"
Just a few random examples from the first three pages...
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On June 21 2010 18:15 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2010 17:56 pettter wrote:On June 21 2010 17:51 clickrush wrote:On June 21 2010 17:37 mOnion wrote:On June 21 2010 17:32 clickrush wrote:I really dislike the Artosis tempban. I want you guys to read Nony's post: I'm not a fan of map discussions without stats. But that's just me. People should take this for what it's worth. A ton of people are undervaluing this and some are overvaluing this.
Imagine chat channels existed (it's a stretch, I know) and you happened to join one with Artosis and IdrA in it. You're a Zerg player and you've been wondering how the different maps change how Zerg works. You get up the courage to ask these people for their opinions... and to your surprise, not only do they answer you, but they write 1000's of words on it. That kinda stuff is pure gold to a ton of people.
It's not about proving which map is balanced one way or the other. It's just that in their thousands of games played, Artosis and IdrA have noticed that some maps are very good for them as Zerg and some are pretty bad. That's interesting. It's the first step in understanding how certain features of maps are going to favor particular races.
This forum is for discussion folks, not critiquing. Evaluating and judging OP's like this is a waste. Engage in the discussion and grapple with the ideas. Even after such a good post, that could have lead towards the right direction, many users continued to flame Artosis for his opinions/insights. Every fifth post was an attempt to derail the discussion towards a "Letz flame Artosis because he is so biased and famous"-thread. I agree that he did not react cool, and he attacked a poster that had nothing to do with it... But in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to go this far. The mods should have took action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. But they didn't. Why didn't they support Artosis earlyer to prevent this? Now the thread had to be closed. It is like shitting on a contributors work. Yeah, I know that Artosis is not known for his diplomatic skills. But the mods know that too and they failed to support him. Nony showed how it could be done with his post. Take an example! actually they did take action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. FA posted a number of times to try to get artosis to chill out, but his efforts were for naught. lol... FA didnt take action. He criticised the article and Artosis' behaviour. The first is ok but the latter is something you do over PMs. Why didnt they continue with Nony's dircetion? The mods do accept when a contributor is getting flamed and the users try to derail the discussion into a anti-Artosis thread instead of discussing whats in his article. And then they wonder why Artosis gets angry? Think about it: if they did support him and if they started to take care of the guys who did not even read the article and the other posts in this thread, then it could have been a very interesting discussion. If you skim through the thread now, then you find some smart things here and there. I'm pretty sure they took action by PM as well, as Chills follow-up post in the ban thread states. I haven't read the actual thread though, so I won't comment on the ban itself.
what I criticise is that they took action towards Artosis only. And not towards the flamers in his thread. Chill's response shows this. He declared those flames and derailing attempts as criticism... Show nested quote +Sometimes, I actually just think Artosis is trolling.
I really like him, and he's an awesome player, but as MorroW said he tends to get very onesided and defensive of his own race in balance discussions.
Seriously, this article is so biased it's insane. Show nested quote +i think this is bullshit ³³.
no symmetric maps is imbalanced at all. you just have different play styles on each.
longer scout distances for overlords on kulas ? OH NOOO... learn to handle it.. starcraft 2 isnt chess where you have the same gameplay each round.
remember the broodwar map blaze (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/99_Neo%20Blaze.jpg) or dire straits (http://classic.battle.net/images/battle/scc/lp/4/xd.jpg) ?
i rebuild those both maps for sc2 and i wouldnt say they are imbalanced for any race.
with terran on blaze you can easily drop the cliffs while you enemy have to react. so what ? it still isnt imbalanced, just a different gameplay experience.
dont have to say a word to dire (island map).
so please stop whining about imbaness of starcraft, couse no one of "us" has the skill/experience /authority to say something about balancing.
thank you
ps: sorry for my bad english Show nested quote +Even if my opinion doesnt count, I agree with him that you are biased most of the time when you talk about zerg. You produced a nice effort to make your point, but you could be a little bit more objective. Then again I'm not saying I know better than you but the whole post had a feeling of whining behind it in my opinion.
And I agree that those maps suck. But not to the point where zerg can't win at all. Show nested quote +Has artosis or idra ever come close to admitting imbalance in favor of whatever race they're currently playing? in sc1 or sc2.
Here's something artosis or idra have never ever said:
"Damn, I lost that game because I got outplayed -- balance probably didn't factor in here" Show nested quote +Has artosis or idra ever come close to admitting imbalance in favor of whatever race they're currently playing? in sc1 or sc2.
Here's something artosis or idra have never ever said:
"Damn, I lost that game because I got outplayed -- balance probably didn't factor in here" Just a few random examples from the first three pages...
None of those posts are ban worthy by themselves at all. I mean sure, they're not quality material, but not ban worthy by themselves at all. Nobody would have batted an eye if they weren't directed at a known progamer and reporter. Unless the poster had a rediculous history of oneliners, they're all fine posts imo.
The fact that your calling them flames is completely silly. Every single one of them was relevant criticism, with maybe one or two of them being a bit to short to justify such a statement.
Are you trying to imply that Artosis's article was anything resembling "good" or "unbiased"? Let me outline this for you. He presented a thread concerning an objective and absolute look at map imbalances, and the only ones he provided were those relating to Zerg.
The thing is, if Artosis simply wanted a discussion on the subject, he wouldn't have put so much pomp into his post. He wouldn't have dismissed people who provided very legit criticism, like his complete failure of terran mech play viability on DO. He didn't set any of the precedents for discussion in the original thread, but instead trying to present it as objective fact. Then when people disagree he doesn't particularity care about their opinions, dismissing them for a variety of reasons, even when they're not posts about his "bias". Its very clear he wasn't interested in a discussion.
If you want to start an open discussion, don't write use words like "article" and "analysis".
Artosis is a good guy and does a lot of things for the community, but stop idol-worshipping.
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i was afraid that Artosis could get away with anything because of who he is, but glad to see Kennigt and Chill being above that and see that he behavior was really not helpful
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On June 21 2010 18:30 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2010 18:15 clickrush wrote:On June 21 2010 17:56 pettter wrote:On June 21 2010 17:51 clickrush wrote:On June 21 2010 17:37 mOnion wrote:On June 21 2010 17:32 clickrush wrote:I really dislike the Artosis tempban. I want you guys to read Nony's post: I'm not a fan of map discussions without stats. But that's just me. People should take this for what it's worth. A ton of people are undervaluing this and some are overvaluing this.
Imagine chat channels existed (it's a stretch, I know) and you happened to join one with Artosis and IdrA in it. You're a Zerg player and you've been wondering how the different maps change how Zerg works. You get up the courage to ask these people for their opinions... and to your surprise, not only do they answer you, but they write 1000's of words on it. That kinda stuff is pure gold to a ton of people.
It's not about proving which map is balanced one way or the other. It's just that in their thousands of games played, Artosis and IdrA have noticed that some maps are very good for them as Zerg and some are pretty bad. That's interesting. It's the first step in understanding how certain features of maps are going to favor particular races.
This forum is for discussion folks, not critiquing. Evaluating and judging OP's like this is a waste. Engage in the discussion and grapple with the ideas. Even after such a good post, that could have lead towards the right direction, many users continued to flame Artosis for his opinions/insights. Every fifth post was an attempt to derail the discussion towards a "Letz flame Artosis because he is so biased and famous"-thread. I agree that he did not react cool, and he attacked a poster that had nothing to do with it... But in my opinion it shouldn't be possible to go this far. The mods should have took action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. But they didn't. Why didn't they support Artosis earlyer to prevent this? Now the thread had to be closed. It is like shitting on a contributors work. Yeah, I know that Artosis is not known for his diplomatic skills. But the mods know that too and they failed to support him. Nony showed how it could be done with his post. Take an example! actually they did take action when they saw all those derailing attempts and flames. FA posted a number of times to try to get artosis to chill out, but his efforts were for naught. lol... FA didnt take action. He criticised the article and Artosis' behaviour. The first is ok but the latter is something you do over PMs. Why didnt they continue with Nony's dircetion? The mods do accept when a contributor is getting flamed and the users try to derail the discussion into a anti-Artosis thread instead of discussing whats in his article. And then they wonder why Artosis gets angry? Think about it: if they did support him and if they started to take care of the guys who did not even read the article and the other posts in this thread, then it could have been a very interesting discussion. If you skim through the thread now, then you find some smart things here and there. I'm pretty sure they took action by PM as well, as Chills follow-up post in the ban thread states. I haven't read the actual thread though, so I won't comment on the ban itself.
what I criticise is that they took action towards Artosis only. And not towards the flamers in his thread. Chill's response shows this. He declared those flames and derailing attempts as criticism... Sometimes, I actually just think Artosis is trolling.
I really like him, and he's an awesome player, but as MorroW said he tends to get very onesided and defensive of his own race in balance discussions.
Seriously, this article is so biased it's insane. i think this is bullshit ³³.
no symmetric maps is imbalanced at all. you just have different play styles on each.
longer scout distances for overlords on kulas ? OH NOOO... learn to handle it.. starcraft 2 isnt chess where you have the same gameplay each round.
remember the broodwar map blaze (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/99_Neo%20Blaze.jpg) or dire straits (http://classic.battle.net/images/battle/scc/lp/4/xd.jpg) ?
i rebuild those both maps for sc2 and i wouldnt say they are imbalanced for any race.
with terran on blaze you can easily drop the cliffs while you enemy have to react. so what ? it still isnt imbalanced, just a different gameplay experience.
dont have to say a word to dire (island map).
so please stop whining about imbaness of starcraft, couse no one of "us" has the skill/experience /authority to say something about balancing.
thank you
ps: sorry for my bad english Even if my opinion doesnt count, I agree with him that you are biased most of the time when you talk about zerg. You produced a nice effort to make your point, but you could be a little bit more objective. Then again I'm not saying I know better than you but the whole post had a feeling of whining behind it in my opinion.
And I agree that those maps suck. But not to the point where zerg can't win at all. Has artosis or idra ever come close to admitting imbalance in favor of whatever race they're currently playing? in sc1 or sc2.
Here's something artosis or idra have never ever said:
"Damn, I lost that game because I got outplayed -- balance probably didn't factor in here" Has artosis or idra ever come close to admitting imbalance in favor of whatever race they're currently playing? in sc1 or sc2.
Here's something artosis or idra have never ever said:
"Damn, I lost that game because I got outplayed -- balance probably didn't factor in here" Just a few random examples from the first three pages... None of those posts are ban worthy by themselves at all. I mean sure, they're not quality material, but not ban worthy by themselves at all. Nobody would have batted an eye if they weren't directed at a known progamer and reporter. Unless the poster had a rediculous history of oneliners, they're all fine posts imo. The fact that your calling them flames is completely silly. Every single one of them was relevant criticism, with maybe one or two of them being a bit to short to justify such a statement. Are you trying to imply that Artosis's article was anything resembling "good" or "unbiased"? Let me outline this for you. He presented a thread concerning an objective and absolute look at map imbalances, and the only ones he provided were those relating to Zerg. Artosis is a good guy and does a lot of things for the community, but stop idol-worshipping.
Artosis only provided Zerg related content because he admited that he has not enough knowledge about the other matchups.
You think that those posts are relevant? criticism? Most of the posts I mentioned (and again, just random examples of the first three pages), do not have any content besides trashing Artosis' opinion. What Artosis did is only showing his experience with those maps as a top Zerg player.
So imagine this: You write an article with your experience as a top player. You state that there are maps that favor the other races and you give reasons for that. Now you see a whole bunch of people who have "arguments" like "your doing it wrong, just try out something different" or "your biased" or "you have no idea about imbalances".
You call that criticism? If you want to know what criticism is then read FA's posts and TLO's post and a few others.
The posts I mentioned lack of basic understanding of the OP itself! They didnt even read it nor did they understand what it is about at all.
and by the way thx for trying to insult me! ("idol-worshipping"). This is pure entertainment.
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Artosis' recent attitude is pretty strange, he has shown this in multiple threads. Look in his camera thread, anyone that was even questioning in some way he pushed back as if they were calling him out for being a thief...
Hope that he gets his attitude back in check, he has been a great contributor to the community but his recent actions online have been really disappointing.
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On June 21 2010 19:32 dethrawr wrote:
Artosis' recent attitude is pretty strange, he has shown this in multiple threads. Look in his camera thread, anyone that was even questioning in some way he pushed back as if they were calling him out for being a thief...
Hope that he gets his attitude back in check, he has been a great contributor to the community but his recent actions online have been really disappointing.
Yeah he does act aggressive in his threads. but look at the pattern of his threads to understand whats going on. letz take the Hwanni interview about the future of the OSL. Artosis made that interview with Hwanni and it showed that the future of the OSL will probably change. Hwanni stated that it will probably switch to SC2 and it will not continue for a long time with BW. There is also another, older interview with the exact same statements...
And then people started to freak out. They said that Artosis' statement was missleading and that he pushed Hwanni to say those things, which is obviously not true. Artosis started to defend himself in a rude way. And now you think that hes unmannered? People claim that his oppinion and the interview is missleading without having any backround knowledge to base their arguments. Artosis just calls it what it is in my opinion.
The exact same pattern happened in the Mapbalance article. The most complaints did not even take account of his disclaimers. "he's biased because he mentions only Zerg" etc. How would you react then? Why didnt the mods take action there? Why do they focus on Artosis' behaviour when there are countless posts that derail a discussion into a flamethread?
This pattern shows not only in Artosis' threads but also in many other threads. When people see an opportunity to call someone biased/unskilled/whatever then they take it. and especialy when the poster is a famous player.
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at some point admins will have to stop justifying in lengthy paragraphs why it was appropriate to ban Artosis "this time".
he should see how unfair it is that there is always a big scene only because he doesn't stop acting like a little bitch. i don't know if it's written somewhere that well-known community figures can't change their behaviour?
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On June 21 2010 21:11 Ghardo wrote:
at some point admins will have to stop justifying in lengthy paragraphs why it was appropriate to ban Artosis "this time".
he should see how unfair it is that there is always a big scene only because he doesn't stop acting like a little bitch. i don't know if it's written somewhere that well-known community figures can't change their behaviour?
Just another example! "he doesn't stop acting like a little bitch"
Reread my above post: He contributes, then people shit on his thread without having understand the content or without having any backround knowledge themselves, and then he starts acting aggressive/arrogant.
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On June 21 2010 19:32 dethrawr wrote:
Artosis' recent attitude is pretty strange, he has shown this in multiple threads. Look in his camera thread, anyone that was even questioning in some way he pushed back as if they were calling him out for being a thief...
Hope that he gets his attitude back in check, he has been a great contributor to the community but his recent actions online have been really disappointing.
theres a reason hes the only known player who posts much in the sc2 forum, besides the odd post from me or nony. its full of trash idiots who flame names they recognize any opportunity they get. ya artosis wasnt being very nice, the people he was responding to dont deserve to be treated nicely.
the thread about hwannis interview was a clearer example, even a mod was a fucktard to him in that thread.
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edit: deleted my post because I only repeated myself.
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On June 21 2010 19:32 dethrawr wrote:
Hope that he gets his attitude back in check, he has been a great contributor to the community but his recent actions online have been really disappointing.
Agreed. I'm definitely a fan of what he does for our community, but I think he considers himself above all criticism at times. (And I hope that if if he reads all these criticisms, he'll try to be a bit objective about the situation and not prove my point...) The temp ban was simply a small slice of humble pie.
Idra,
theres a reason hes the only known player who posts much in the sc2 forum, besides the odd post from me or nony. its full of trash idiots who flame names they recognize any opportunity they get. ya artosis wasnt being very nice, the people he was responding to dont deserve to be treated nicely.
Sure, some people will flame names to try to sound like they know what they're talking about. And I agree that not everyone who's criticized Artosis has done so in a respectful manner. However, believe it or not, the occasional *valid point* has been brought up against Artosis's perspectives, and he arrogantly dismisses them with an ad hominem argument, rather than considering them in his work or openly discussing them. Several times, he's made very opinionated posts as if they were incontrovertible... and then is shocked when people (respectfully) disagree and actually defend their claims. ::shrugs::
I'm still a fan of his work; I just hope he takes his ego down a few notches.
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Wow man, it's just a 2 day ban to chill out, no need to give sympathy or think that the mod's are asses for their decision. it's not like NeverGG's temp ban for 1 week which is pretty long (for me). 2 days isn't that long, I've been there and done that. Now maybe after that 2 days ban he will have something productive to do or give out a very awesome thread about the SC 2 scene in Korea.
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On June 21 2010 22:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2010 19:32 dethrawr wrote:
Hope that he gets his attitude back in check, he has been a great contributor to the community but his recent actions online have been really disappointing. Agreed. I'm definitely a fan of what he does for our community, but I think he considers himself above all criticism at times. (And I hope that if if he reads all these criticisms, he'll try to be a bit objective about the situation and not prove my point...) The temp ban was simply a small slice of humble pie. Idra, Show nested quote +
theres a reason hes the only known player who posts much in the sc2 forum, besides the odd post from me or nony. its full of trash idiots who flame names they recognize any opportunity they get. ya artosis wasnt being very nice, the people he was responding to dont deserve to be treated nicely.
Sure, some people will flame names to try to sound like they know what they're talking about. And I agree that not everyone who's criticized Artosis has done so in a respectful manner. However, believe it or not, the occasional *valid point* has been brought up against Artosis's perspectives, and he arrogantly dismisses them with an ad hominem argument, rather than considering them in his work or openly discussing them. Several times, he's made very opinionated posts as if they were incontrovertible... and then is shocked when people (respectfully) disagree and actually defend their claims. ::shrugs:: I'm still a fan of his work; I just hope he takes his ego down a few notches.
I suggest you take a look at the post he got warned for and the post he got banned for. Those are clearly posts where he defended himself against insults.
Then look at his other posts in the thread. I dont see any post where he was bad mannered. he got into the discussion and explained some details. In some of the later posts he was very defensive, stating that he is pissed because he contributes and shares his knowledge and then gets flamed.
And compare this with all the insults towards him in the whole thread. Holy crap I wonder why he didnt act even more aggressive!
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GreEny K was just temp banned for 2 days by Hot_Bid.
That account was created on 2008-02-29 12:35:50 and had 1976 posts.
Reason: To infinity and beyond!!!!!!!!!
2 days doesn't sound like infinity to me, Hot_Bid.
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Braavos36402 Posts
yeah but buzz lightyear can't actually fly.
tbh, i don't even like toy story that much. i probably won't see TS3 in the theaters, but definitely on DVD. my favorite pixar movie is wall-e or the incredibles
i just don't like it when users come into a thread and post a clearly insulting / incendiary one liner. its poor form to do that and we should do a better job cracking down on it. criticism and discussion is fine, but blatantly starting a flamewar is not.
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EPT
