|
This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
On September 26 2019 00:12 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2019 23:18 JimmiC wrote:On September 25 2019 22:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 12:41 Alejandrisha wrote:
wasn't able to find ffgeneration's last posts. what happened with that? The mods don't want you to see that the ban was completely ridiculous probably That was a completely reasonable ban. Sex with a minor can't be consensual and therefor is rape. Someone who rapes a child is either a sociopath or a horrible horrible person. Part of me thinks that anyone who thinks it was not reasonable should also be banned. Or at least is not the type of person I would want to associate with. https://tl.net/blogs/551225-im-in-shock#11This is the thread in question and you see the comment he got banned for. Now if that link to the police report was already dead then idk, that would potentially change things in my eyes. (and the content of the post we cannot see anymore obviously) What it looks like right now is a mod getting angry he got called out for his nonsensical statement.
While it's certainly possible that there was more to this and that the moderator banned him for a previous post (the one I'm about to link) retroactively after deleting the one you linked, this post alone is damning enough IMO:
https://tl.net/blogs/551225-im-in-shock#8
|
Canada11355 Posts
On September 26 2019 00:12 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2019 23:18 JimmiC wrote:On September 25 2019 22:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 12:41 Alejandrisha wrote:
wasn't able to find ffgeneration's last posts. what happened with that? The mods don't want you to see that the ban was completely ridiculous probably That was a completely reasonable ban. Sex with a minor can't be consensual and therefor is rape. Someone who rapes a child is either a sociopath or a horrible horrible person. Part of me thinks that anyone who thinks it was not reasonable should also be banned. Or at least is not the type of person I would want to associate with. https://tl.net/blogs/551225-im-in-shock#11This is the thread in question and you see the comment he got banned for. Now if that link to the police report was already dead then idk, that would potentially change things in my eyes. (and the content of the post we cannot see anymore obviously) What it looks like right now is a mod getting angry he got called out for his nonsensical statement.
I imagine you're talking about me since I'm the only mod to make a statement... I don't even have the power to perm people without approval yet and barely weighed in on the subject in the mod chat as I don't know much about FFg. For the record I was for his ban the last time it came up as well based on the incredibly uncomfortable video he posted in his blog.
Which is to say I encourage people to call out anything I post that they see as nonsense. I certainly don't appreciate being accused of using mod status as a cudgel.
|
The link was dead from the start. It was a couple of days later and several posts before FFW_Rude decided to be more specific about the nature of the crime. FFGenerations seems to be referring to watching cartoons, which frankly speaking is not, or should not be a crime. That in itself should not really be bannable
On the other hand, "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have sexual contact with them" is just disgusting. Most adults are attracted to other adults, yet most of us manage to avoid unconsented sexual contact with other adults. Ban is reasonable. I don't get why ban reasons are so unspecific sometimes; it just makes it look like you just don't like the guy as opposed to a legitimate reason.
|
On September 26 2019 00:43 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2019 00:12 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 23:18 JimmiC wrote:On September 25 2019 22:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 12:41 Alejandrisha wrote:
wasn't able to find ffgeneration's last posts. what happened with that? The mods don't want you to see that the ban was completely ridiculous probably That was a completely reasonable ban. Sex with a minor can't be consensual and therefor is rape. Someone who rapes a child is either a sociopath or a horrible horrible person. Part of me thinks that anyone who thinks it was not reasonable should also be banned. Or at least is not the type of person I would want to associate with. https://tl.net/blogs/551225-im-in-shock#11This is the thread in question and you see the comment he got banned for. Now if that link to the police report was already dead then idk, that would potentially change things in my eyes. (and the content of the post we cannot see anymore obviously) What it looks like right now is a mod getting angry he got called out for his nonsensical statement. I imagine you're talking about me since I'm the only mod to make a statement... I don't even have the power to perm people without approval yet and barely weighed in on the subject in the mod chat as I don't know much about FFg. For the record I was for his ban the last time it came up as well based on the incredibly uncomfortable video he posted in his blog. Which is to say I encourage people to call out anything I post that they see as nonsense. I certainly don't appreciate being accused of using mod status as a cudgel.
I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes, neither do i have a good perspective on the posting history of that guy (though i saw the last blog iirc). I am just commenting on what is visible right now.
With that being said, it seems like some topics are incredibly hard to talk about in a nuanced manner because people usually already have very strong opinions on these subjects and it gets emotional really fast.
In any case, i am fairly critical of mod decisions for a while now, so definitely biased in that regard 
I am sure you guys try your best though, so sorry for implying the abuse of power, that was maybe a bit much.
On September 26 2019 00:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The link was dead from the start. It was a couple of days later and several posts before FFW_Rude decided to be more specific about the nature of the crime. FFGenerations seems to be referring to watching cartoons, which frankly speaking is, or should not be a crime. That in itself should not really be bannable
On the other hand, "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have sexual contact with them" is just disgusting. Most adults are attracted to other adults, yet most of us manage to avoid unconsented sexual contact with other adults. Ban is reasonable. I don't get why ban reasons are so unspecific sometimes; it just makes it look like you just don't like the guy as opposed to a legitimate reason.
Sure that is worded really poorly, though i wouldn't think he meant it the way one could interprete it. Why? Because he even starts the comment with declaring that there is a big difference between rape and other illegal activities concerning pedophilia. So it seems like he'd condemn rape as well.
|
It’s better to hear the team had been contemplating the ban for many posts, than to just guess that they acted rashly or acted on a specific instance.
|
|
|
On September 26 2019 01:15 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2019 00:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 26 2019 00:43 Fecalfeast wrote:On September 26 2019 00:12 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 23:18 JimmiC wrote:On September 25 2019 22:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 12:41 Alejandrisha wrote:
wasn't able to find ffgeneration's last posts. what happened with that? The mods don't want you to see that the ban was completely ridiculous probably That was a completely reasonable ban. Sex with a minor can't be consensual and therefor is rape. Someone who rapes a child is either a sociopath or a horrible horrible person. Part of me thinks that anyone who thinks it was not reasonable should also be banned. Or at least is not the type of person I would want to associate with. https://tl.net/blogs/551225-im-in-shock#11This is the thread in question and you see the comment he got banned for. Now if that link to the police report was already dead then idk, that would potentially change things in my eyes. (and the content of the post we cannot see anymore obviously) What it looks like right now is a mod getting angry he got called out for his nonsensical statement. I imagine you're talking about me since I'm the only mod to make a statement... I don't even have the power to perm people without approval yet and barely weighed in on the subject in the mod chat as I don't know much about FFg. For the record I was for his ban the last time it came up as well based on the incredibly uncomfortable video he posted in his blog. Which is to say I encourage people to call out anything I post that they see as nonsense. I certainly don't appreciate being accused of using mod status as a cudgel. I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes, neither do i have a good perspective on the posting history of that guy (though i saw the last blog iirc). I am just commenting on what is visible right now. With that being said, it seems like some topics are incredibly hard to talk about in a nuanced manner because people usually already have very strong opinions on these subjects and it gets emotional really fast. In any case, i am fairly critical of mod decisions for a while now, so definitely biased in that regard I am sure you guys try your best though, so sorry for implying the abuse of power, that was maybe a bit much. On September 26 2019 00:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The link was dead from the start. It was a couple of days later and several posts before FFW_Rude decided to be more specific about the nature of the crime. FFGenerations seems to be referring to watching cartoons, which frankly speaking is, or should not be a crime. That in itself should not really be bannable
On the other hand, "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have sexual contact with them" is just disgusting. Most adults are attracted to other adults, yet most of us manage to avoid unconsented sexual contact with other adults. Ban is reasonable. I don't get why ban reasons are so unspecific sometimes; it just makes it look like you just don't like the guy as opposed to a legitimate reason. Sure that is worded really poorly, though i wouldn't think he meant it the way one could interprete it. Why? Because he even starts the comment with declaring that there is a big difference between rape and other illegal activities concerning pedophilia. So it seems like he'd condemn rape as well. Any sexual contact with a child is rape because children can not consent. It is not worded poorly it is criminal and infuriating. There is no need to split hairs and as someone else mentioned there are plenty of places on the internet where people can split these hairs with other creeps to make themselves feel better about their aberrant behavior. No need to have it here. He had been warned about it, he continued to do it. This is one of the least controversial ban's I've seen.
Yes and as i tried to point out he seems to think so as well. He makes a distinction between jerking off to pictures compared to actual rape, asking if people know the actual crime which happened here. So he condemns rape, that was my point.
In any case, your post is exactly what i meant when i said that certain topics are impossible to discuss, you simply define potentially mentally ill people as creeps and lump them all together with sociapaths (another mental illness) without any care for the implications. Demonizing people who have these mental problems is easy to do, i understand.
|
didn't mean to open up a can of worms. just generally when a perm ban on some one with that many posts is issued there is a paper trail you can follow. i understand what he was getting at is a sensitive subject and also that it is a council of mods deciding whether to cut ties with a creeper rather than just a rogue agent. pedo apologists have no place in any relevant discourse. i think the bad thing is generally people keep it to themselves and are not found til they act
|
|
|
On September 26 2019 02:08 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2019 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 26 2019 01:15 JimmiC wrote:On September 26 2019 00:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 26 2019 00:43 Fecalfeast wrote:On September 26 2019 00:12 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 23:18 JimmiC wrote:On September 25 2019 22:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 12:41 Alejandrisha wrote:
wasn't able to find ffgeneration's last posts. what happened with that? The mods don't want you to see that the ban was completely ridiculous probably That was a completely reasonable ban. Sex with a minor can't be consensual and therefor is rape. Someone who rapes a child is either a sociopath or a horrible horrible person. Part of me thinks that anyone who thinks it was not reasonable should also be banned. Or at least is not the type of person I would want to associate with. https://tl.net/blogs/551225-im-in-shock#11This is the thread in question and you see the comment he got banned for. Now if that link to the police report was already dead then idk, that would potentially change things in my eyes. (and the content of the post we cannot see anymore obviously) What it looks like right now is a mod getting angry he got called out for his nonsensical statement. I imagine you're talking about me since I'm the only mod to make a statement... I don't even have the power to perm people without approval yet and barely weighed in on the subject in the mod chat as I don't know much about FFg. For the record I was for his ban the last time it came up as well based on the incredibly uncomfortable video he posted in his blog. Which is to say I encourage people to call out anything I post that they see as nonsense. I certainly don't appreciate being accused of using mod status as a cudgel. I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes, neither do i have a good perspective on the posting history of that guy (though i saw the last blog iirc). I am just commenting on what is visible right now. With that being said, it seems like some topics are incredibly hard to talk about in a nuanced manner because people usually already have very strong opinions on these subjects and it gets emotional really fast. In any case, i am fairly critical of mod decisions for a while now, so definitely biased in that regard I am sure you guys try your best though, so sorry for implying the abuse of power, that was maybe a bit much. On September 26 2019 00:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The link was dead from the start. It was a couple of days later and several posts before FFW_Rude decided to be more specific about the nature of the crime. FFGenerations seems to be referring to watching cartoons, which frankly speaking is, or should not be a crime. That in itself should not really be bannable
On the other hand, "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have sexual contact with them" is just disgusting. Most adults are attracted to other adults, yet most of us manage to avoid unconsented sexual contact with other adults. Ban is reasonable. I don't get why ban reasons are so unspecific sometimes; it just makes it look like you just don't like the guy as opposed to a legitimate reason. Sure that is worded really poorly, though i wouldn't think he meant it the way one could interprete it. Why? Because he even starts the comment with declaring that there is a big difference between rape and other illegal activities concerning pedophilia. So it seems like he'd condemn rape as well. Any sexual contact with a child is rape because children can not consent. It is not worded poorly it is criminal and infuriating. There is no need to split hairs and as someone else mentioned there are plenty of places on the internet where people can split these hairs with other creeps to make themselves feel better about their aberrant behavior. No need to have it here. He had been warned about it, he continued to do it. This is one of the least controversial ban's I've seen. Yes and as i tried to point out he seems to think so as well. He makes a distinction between jerking off to pictures compared to actual rape, asking if people know the actual crime which happened here. So he condemns rape, that was my point. In any case, your post is exactly what i meant when i said that certain topics are impossible to discuss, you simply define potentially mentally ill people as creeps and lump them all together with sociapaths (another mental illness) without any care for the implications. Demonizing people who have these mental problems is easy to do, i understand. Dude you are just wrong. If they are doing any action that would be defined as sexual contact they are now a rapist. There is no need to split hairs. If you have sexual contact with anyone who doesn't want it it is sexual assault. We wouldn't say men who sexually assault women have mental problems and shouldn't be demonized, even if they have mental problems. In society we think that these types of mental problems once acted on are criminal and should be demonized. "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have sexual contact with them" this quote should be demonized. If you don't think so I'd rather not associate with you either and I hope at some point you are also removed from the community.
yes. you cannot be punished for thought crimes but if you have those compulsions you are just more susceptible for being charged with crimes from acting on them be they online or in person. watching child porn is taking part in creating demand for the creation of the product so is morally and criminally reprehensible and makes you culpable. if you are a pedo without acting on it for your whole life, good on you but that must be a very hard life. not one i sympathize with or could ever empathize with. it's like wanting to be a mass murderer but never doing the deed. triggers are everywhere. sounds like a life of pain and self-hatred
|
nvm, semantics strikes again
|
On September 26 2019 02:08 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2019 01:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 26 2019 01:15 JimmiC wrote:On September 26 2019 00:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 26 2019 00:43 Fecalfeast wrote:On September 26 2019 00:12 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 23:18 JimmiC wrote:On September 25 2019 22:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:On September 25 2019 12:41 Alejandrisha wrote:
wasn't able to find ffgeneration's last posts. what happened with that? The mods don't want you to see that the ban was completely ridiculous probably That was a completely reasonable ban. Sex with a minor can't be consensual and therefor is rape. Someone who rapes a child is either a sociopath or a horrible horrible person. Part of me thinks that anyone who thinks it was not reasonable should also be banned. Or at least is not the type of person I would want to associate with. https://tl.net/blogs/551225-im-in-shock#11This is the thread in question and you see the comment he got banned for. Now if that link to the police report was already dead then idk, that would potentially change things in my eyes. (and the content of the post we cannot see anymore obviously) What it looks like right now is a mod getting angry he got called out for his nonsensical statement. I imagine you're talking about me since I'm the only mod to make a statement... I don't even have the power to perm people without approval yet and barely weighed in on the subject in the mod chat as I don't know much about FFg. For the record I was for his ban the last time it came up as well based on the incredibly uncomfortable video he posted in his blog. Which is to say I encourage people to call out anything I post that they see as nonsense. I certainly don't appreciate being accused of using mod status as a cudgel. I obviously don't know what goes on behind the scenes, neither do i have a good perspective on the posting history of that guy (though i saw the last blog iirc). I am just commenting on what is visible right now. With that being said, it seems like some topics are incredibly hard to talk about in a nuanced manner because people usually already have very strong opinions on these subjects and it gets emotional really fast. In any case, i am fairly critical of mod decisions for a while now, so definitely biased in that regard I am sure you guys try your best though, so sorry for implying the abuse of power, that was maybe a bit much. On September 26 2019 00:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The link was dead from the start. It was a couple of days later and several posts before FFW_Rude decided to be more specific about the nature of the crime. FFGenerations seems to be referring to watching cartoons, which frankly speaking is, or should not be a crime. That in itself should not really be bannable
On the other hand, "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have sexual contact with them" is just disgusting. Most adults are attracted to other adults, yet most of us manage to avoid unconsented sexual contact with other adults. Ban is reasonable. I don't get why ban reasons are so unspecific sometimes; it just makes it look like you just don't like the guy as opposed to a legitimate reason. Sure that is worded really poorly, though i wouldn't think he meant it the way one could interprete it. Why? Because he even starts the comment with declaring that there is a big difference between rape and other illegal activities concerning pedophilia. So it seems like he'd condemn rape as well. Any sexual contact with a child is rape because children can not consent. It is not worded poorly it is criminal and infuriating. There is no need to split hairs and as someone else mentioned there are plenty of places on the internet where people can split these hairs with other creeps to make themselves feel better about their aberrant behavior. No need to have it here. He had been warned about it, he continued to do it. This is one of the least controversial ban's I've seen. Yes and as i tried to point out he seems to think so as well. He makes a distinction between jerking off to pictures compared to actual rape, asking if people know the actual crime which happened here. So he condemns rape, that was my point. In any case, your post is exactly what i meant when i said that certain topics are impossible to discuss, you simply define potentially mentally ill people as creeps and lump them all together with sociapaths (another mental illness) without any care for the implications. Demonizing people who have these mental problems is easy to do, i understand. Dude you are just wrong. If they are doing any action that would be defined as sexual contact they are now a rapist. There is no need to split hairs. If you have sexual contact with anyone who doesn't want it it is sexual assault. We wouldn't say men who sexually assault women have mental problems and shouldn't be demonized, even if they have mental problems. In society we think that these types of mental problems once acted on are criminal and should be demonized. "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have sexual contact with them" this quote should be demonized. If you don't think so I'd rather not associate with you either and I hope at some point you are also removed from the community.
Ok i try one last time, maybe this time you actually read what is written.
You are obviously right that acting on your urges makes you a rapist period. I just tried to show you that the person who got banned seemed to think so as well, which is why he started his post with a distinction and asked what the actual crime was and if we know. That's it.
Now as Alejandrisha pointed out, there are other moral problems when it comes to the consumption of other illegal avenues, like child porn. It certainly makes sense that these avenues are illegal because they'd promote the creation of new material.
The overall problem is still there though, there are people with mental problems and simply demonizing them in the first place is probably not the best way to tackle this issue. Which happens instantly though because the topic is emotionally charged.
Now if you read this and still don't understand my point, then whatever. I am done here, not worth the effort.
|
if there was no demand for child porn, it would not be lucrative and thus not worth the risk besides the people creating it. and if we are talking about all demand, then those people wouldn't exist. however there is demand for it, and anyone who shares or downloads it is just as guilty as the one who grooms a child. even owning resources on how to groom children for such behavior is a felony that will put you away for 15+ years in the states as it should be.
this is just one of those things where you go 'i hope he gets help' while simultaneously knowing there is no helping him. i am not sympathizing with these people i just pity them
+ Show Spoiler +and if it were up to me they would be lined up and shot in the back of the head if they do in fact act on it.
|
|
|
The first point he made was reasonable. What wasn't reasonable was his second point about sexual contact. If he wrote "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have contact with them" then that would be fine in my opinion, but he did not. "Sexual contact" is not fine. The phrasing implies that it is somehow the children's fault that sexual contact has occured by their mere existence, as opposed to the adult's fault.
|
Hyrule19037 Posts
Also worth noting 2 things:
1. This is not his first account, and not the first time he has been permed for the same underlying reasons
2. Every perm on a relatively well established account (more than some arbitrary and undefined number of posts) gets discussed by several mods. Very rarely are people just removed from the site unilaterally.
|
On September 26 2019 02:58 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The first point he made was reasonable. What wasn't reasonable was his second point about sexual contact. If he wrote "if you're attracted to children then you simply live with the risk of being in situations where you might have contact with them" then that would be fine in my opinion, but he did not. "Sexual contact" is not fine. The adult has position of power in this situation and the phrasing implies that it is somehow the children's fault that sexual contact has occured, as opposed to the adult's fault.
See i interprete this differently, the first point of his was a general one about the thread topic.
The second one was directly opposed to what Fecalfeast said which was:
I'm no expert but I think in order to abuse children someone needs to be some type of sociopath. Sociopaths are often incredibly skilled at 'acting normal' and preying on people with empathy's tendency to think people are generally good.
I agree that the reply is worded really badly, but considering that his opening point was about a distinction between the act of rape and other illegal things, it seems absurd to interprete this bad wording as him saying that it is the fault of the kid?
He imo is simply trying to say that pedophilia is the sexual attraction to prepubescent children and if you have this mental illness you are in a constant struggle to not fall for this urge especially because there are no other outlets for these people, unlike with "normal" sexual fantasies.
Now maybe i am too charitable here, i am open to that possibility, but if he'd actually think that any form of direct sexual interaction was defendable he wouldn't have opened his post like he did and wouldn't have asked about if we know the details of the crime. It doesn't add up i think. That's all.
|
We seem to have a different understanding of "sexual contact with them".
His opening point was fine. There is a distinction between rape and a drawing of rape. I have no problems there. However, there's nothing that can connect his second point that will magically make it fine. There is no distinction between rape and "sexual contact with (children)".
|
Milo Yiannopoulos said that homosexual men and boys should share some kind of contact and that this was a healthy thing and even he immediately lost his book deal and was basically banished from every airwave and social outlet, conservative or not. there is no line-stepping. it is a mental illness but not one to be placated. it is simply unacceptable in our society and any rational being is rightfully disgusted by it. unless you are the aclu and/or live in a fantasy world ie neverland ranch
|
Germany25657 Posts
Lets move on shall we? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
