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Hello, Noobie!
And Arctix, at what point did you join? Not relevant, just wondering. It's amazing to read your account of what happened at a different time because pretty much the same EXACT conversations occurred between myself, and Free, and another high-ranking member and Free when we were a part of the community and spoke our minds. I remember vividly the "watch your tone" statement. I also felt a responsibility to try to maintain my position in power in order to make the guild the best I could for the people in it, otherwise I would have left long before that.
Also, I forgot about the Sun Tzu thing. Him and Orz both lived by that. Going so far as to make ground-breaking, claims inspired by Sun Tzu himself, such as "stealth is good." (Lmao).
It's upsetting. I've seen so many good leaders, players, and people go through there that could have made it such a great endeavor.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 06 2013 10:10 Disciple7 wrote:
Hello, Noobie!
And Arctix, at what point did you join? Not relevant, just wondering. It's amazing to read your account of what happened at a different time because pretty much the same EXACT conversations occurred between myself, and Free, and another high-ranking member and Free when we were a part of the community and spoke our minds. I remember vividly the "watch your tone" statement. I also felt a responsibility to try to maintain my position in power in order to make the guild the best I could for the people in it, otherwise I would have left long before that.
Also, I forgot about the Sun Tzu thing. Him and Orz both lived by that. Going so far as to make ground-breaking, claims inspired by Sun Tzu himself, such as "stealth is good." (Lmao).
It's upsetting. I've seen so many good leaders, players, and people go through there that could have made it such a great endeavor.
I haven't read Sun Tzu's book yet but does it state anywhere that the leader must rule with any iron fist or something? Wondering if the whole 'watch your tone' was inspired from that or something.
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Sun Tzu
There are three ways in which a ruler can bring misfortune upon his army. By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey; this is called hobbling the army. By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions which obtain in an army; this causes restlessness in soldiers’ minds. By employing the officers of his army without discrimination, through ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances; this shakes the confidence of the soldiers.
Taken from a document where much of the evidence against Freelancer about things that Team Liquid probably won't care about. I don't know who added this quote to the document but it fits.
Art of War Ch 3
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On December 06 2013 11:21 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 10:10 Disciple7 wrote:
Hello, Noobie!
And Arctix, at what point did you join? Not relevant, just wondering. It's amazing to read your account of what happened at a different time because pretty much the same EXACT conversations occurred between myself, and Free, and another high-ranking member and Free when we were a part of the community and spoke our minds. I remember vividly the "watch your tone" statement. I also felt a responsibility to try to maintain my position in power in order to make the guild the best I could for the people in it, otherwise I would have left long before that.
Also, I forgot about the Sun Tzu thing. Him and Orz both lived by that. Going so far as to make ground-breaking, claims inspired by Sun Tzu himself, such as "stealth is good." (Lmao).
It's upsetting. I've seen so many good leaders, players, and people go through there that could have made it such a great endeavor. I haven't read Sun Tzu's book yet but does it state anywhere that the leader must rule with any iron fist or something? Wondering if the whole 'watch your tone' was inspired from that or something.
I doubt it. I don't think he ever even touched a book by Sun Tzu. Honestly, I think he was using it as kind of a "mandate of heaven" idea. A lot of what he did makes me think of that, honestly. i.e. My tactics are wrong? Well then Sun Tzu's tactics must be wrong too. I'm wrong? Well all of TLegacy must be wrong too. Oh you don't like what I'm doing here? Well Team Liquid is backing me, how can you argue with someone Team Liquid has given full confidence?
Holy shit, as I was writing this, I realized that man has created a video gaming religion, with Team Liquid as its god. It's presence is always felt, but never explicitly made. It is used to enforce certain codes or laws, morals, and ethics. Helps to give the leader a sense of right so no one else could ever lead. Wow.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 06 2013 14:26 Disciple7 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 11:21 BigFan wrote:On December 06 2013 10:10 Disciple7 wrote:
Hello, Noobie!
And Arctix, at what point did you join? Not relevant, just wondering. It's amazing to read your account of what happened at a different time because pretty much the same EXACT conversations occurred between myself, and Free, and another high-ranking member and Free when we were a part of the community and spoke our minds. I remember vividly the "watch your tone" statement. I also felt a responsibility to try to maintain my position in power in order to make the guild the best I could for the people in it, otherwise I would have left long before that.
Also, I forgot about the Sun Tzu thing. Him and Orz both lived by that. Going so far as to make ground-breaking, claims inspired by Sun Tzu himself, such as "stealth is good." (Lmao).
It's upsetting. I've seen so many good leaders, players, and people go through there that could have made it such a great endeavor. I haven't read Sun Tzu's book yet but does it state anywhere that the leader must rule with any iron fist or something? Wondering if the whole 'watch your tone' was inspired from that or something. I doubt it. I don't think he ever even touched a book by Sun Tzu. Honestly, I think he was using it as kind of a "mandate of heaven" idea. A lot of what he did makes me think of that, honestly. i.e. My tactics are wrong? Well then Sun Tzu's tactics must be wrong too. I'm wrong? Well all of TLegacy must be wrong too. Oh you don't like what I'm doing here? Well Team Liquid is backing me, how can you argue with someone Team Liquid has given full confidence? Holy shit, as I was writing this, I realized that man has created a video gaming religion, with Team Liquid as its god. It's presence is always felt, but never explicitly made. It is used to enforce certain codes or laws, morals, and ethics. Helps to give the leader a sense of right so no one else could ever lead. Wow.
lol getting a bit ahead of yourself  yes, I see your point now. I think he was just using it as a backup so that if one hasn't read the book, they are less likely to argue against him although if what Arctix posted is true especially the logs, I can't see how many would put up with that tbh. Being told to agree unconditionally and the whole 'watch your tone' would piss me off lol
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On December 06 2013 15:16 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 14:26 Disciple7 wrote:On December 06 2013 11:21 BigFan wrote:On December 06 2013 10:10 Disciple7 wrote:
Hello, Noobie!
And Arctix, at what point did you join? Not relevant, just wondering. It's amazing to read your account of what happened at a different time because pretty much the same EXACT conversations occurred between myself, and Free, and another high-ranking member and Free when we were a part of the community and spoke our minds. I remember vividly the "watch your tone" statement. I also felt a responsibility to try to maintain my position in power in order to make the guild the best I could for the people in it, otherwise I would have left long before that.
Also, I forgot about the Sun Tzu thing. Him and Orz both lived by that. Going so far as to make ground-breaking, claims inspired by Sun Tzu himself, such as "stealth is good." (Lmao).
It's upsetting. I've seen so many good leaders, players, and people go through there that could have made it such a great endeavor. I haven't read Sun Tzu's book yet but does it state anywhere that the leader must rule with any iron fist or something? Wondering if the whole 'watch your tone' was inspired from that or something. I doubt it. I don't think he ever even touched a book by Sun Tzu. Honestly, I think he was using it as kind of a "mandate of heaven" idea. A lot of what he did makes me think of that, honestly. i.e. My tactics are wrong? Well then Sun Tzu's tactics must be wrong too. I'm wrong? Well all of TLegacy must be wrong too. Oh you don't like what I'm doing here? Well Team Liquid is backing me, how can you argue with someone Team Liquid has given full confidence? Holy shit, as I was writing this, I realized that man has created a video gaming religion, with Team Liquid as its god. It's presence is always felt, but never explicitly made. It is used to enforce certain codes or laws, morals, and ethics. Helps to give the leader a sense of right so no one else could ever lead. Wow. lol getting a bit ahead of yourself yes, I see your point now. I think he was just using it as a backup so that if one hasn't read the book, they are less likely to argue against him although if what Arctix posted is true especially the logs, I can't see how many would put up with that tbh. Being told to agree unconditionally and the whole 'watch your tone' would piss me off lol
I can confirm that everything arctix said was true (although very biased). I also had similar chat logs but will refrain from posting them since some of them probably break Team Liquid rules pertaining to personal attacks.
The reason that a lot of players stay in Team Legacy is due to the other members being genuine good people. When we left we took about 75% of the people I play with (only a small group of people that I play league with stayed behind) so that helped. I think that most people do not believe what they were being told but really it doesn't effect most the guild.
Team Legacy is not a LLC, has no sponsorships, had horrible leadership relations with other guilds (one of the members that left with me helped to improve that once Freelancer stepped out of an in game leadership role), consistently had NDA information presented in community meetings, and had many lies passed down to its members. However, I feel that most people that actually cared in the community were aware of this. Because of this I was originally hesitant to post in this thread, but I was able to talk to people from the guild and Freelancer ever so kindly sent me an email saying that he had a post in the member section of his forum about him coming clean.
(if anyone wants proof feel free to ask. I don't want to clutter up my post with 100s of google docs like the pm i had sent earlier)
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On December 06 2013 15:47 NoobieOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2013 15:16 BigFan wrote:On December 06 2013 14:26 Disciple7 wrote:On December 06 2013 11:21 BigFan wrote:On December 06 2013 10:10 Disciple7 wrote:
Hello, Noobie!
And Arctix, at what point did you join? Not relevant, just wondering. It's amazing to read your account of what happened at a different time because pretty much the same EXACT conversations occurred between myself, and Free, and another high-ranking member and Free when we were a part of the community and spoke our minds. I remember vividly the "watch your tone" statement. I also felt a responsibility to try to maintain my position in power in order to make the guild the best I could for the people in it, otherwise I would have left long before that.
Also, I forgot about the Sun Tzu thing. Him and Orz both lived by that. Going so far as to make ground-breaking, claims inspired by Sun Tzu himself, such as "stealth is good." (Lmao).
It's upsetting. I've seen so many good leaders, players, and people go through there that could have made it such a great endeavor. I haven't read Sun Tzu's book yet but does it state anywhere that the leader must rule with any iron fist or something? Wondering if the whole 'watch your tone' was inspired from that or something. I doubt it. I don't think he ever even touched a book by Sun Tzu. Honestly, I think he was using it as kind of a "mandate of heaven" idea. A lot of what he did makes me think of that, honestly. i.e. My tactics are wrong? Well then Sun Tzu's tactics must be wrong too. I'm wrong? Well all of TLegacy must be wrong too. Oh you don't like what I'm doing here? Well Team Liquid is backing me, how can you argue with someone Team Liquid has given full confidence? Holy shit, as I was writing this, I realized that man has created a video gaming religion, with Team Liquid as its god. It's presence is always felt, but never explicitly made. It is used to enforce certain codes or laws, morals, and ethics. Helps to give the leader a sense of right so no one else could ever lead. Wow. lol getting a bit ahead of yourself yes, I see your point now. I think he was just using it as a backup so that if one hasn't read the book, they are less likely to argue against him although if what Arctix posted is true especially the logs, I can't see how many would put up with that tbh. Being told to agree unconditionally and the whole 'watch your tone' would piss me off lol ...Freelancer ever so kindly sent me an email saying that he had a post in the member section of his forum about him coming clean.
It's not clear what is being said here. Could you elaborate on this point? And if he's "coming clean" why is it posted in a private forum where no dissent or due process can take place?
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Here are the two quotes from the email that he sent me after posting in this thread.
We had a huge meeting and got all the shit out in the open and cleared the air. Lightning and others have started coming back, knowing that both sides fucked up. Yea, me too.
There has been a private thread in our forums where everyone has brought out all the dirty laundry and we are moving on. That Liquid thread is linked as well. Bottom line is when all hat shit happened with Arctix/etc, people had questions, and we had to lay it all out there. You would have enjoyed it.
I have confirmed with members of Team Legacy that both did happen although were not 100% inclusive.
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Lol. So after going full-blown denial mode and calling us trolls in public he has decided to admit we were right in private.
Talk about trying to save face.
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I appreciate the positive feedback everyone, it's unfortunate, but this guy is trash. Absolute trash-- as a gamer, and a human being. There are innocent players who are looking for a nice community and are misled by Freelancer and his false promises that go over and beyond to support that community with money and time. It's criminal that he profits from it and uses every single one of them.
On December 07 2013 01:26 NoobieOne wrote:Here are the two quotes from the email that he sent me after posting in this thread. Show nested quote +We had a huge meeting and got all the shit out in the open and cleared the air. Lightning and others have started coming back, knowing that both sides fucked up. Yea, me too. Show nested quote +There has been a private thread in our forums where everyone has brought out all the dirty laundry and we are moving on. That Liquid thread is linked as well. Bottom line is when all hat shit happened with Arctix/etc, people had questions, and we had to lay it all out there. You would have enjoyed it.
I have confirmed with members of Team Legacy that both did happen although were not 100% inclusive.
I can confirm that everything arctix said was true (although very biased).
Secondly, nothing that I said was biased. It all really happened. It wasn't more aggressive or less agressive for any reason, it was and is the truth, exactly how it happened. Just because it came from me, someone who's had issues with Freelancer, doesn't mean that it's biased as fact is fact. You can clearly see in my chat logs with Freelancer that I made attempts to make things work, and the result was consistently the same. He's a shitty person.
Bottom line is when all hat shit happened with Arctix/etc, people had questions, and we had to lay it all out there. You would have enjoyed it.
I call BS. When we left, he took down his OWN site, and his OWN TS3, and claimed that it was everyone who left maliciously attacking their website and TS3. They didn't lay shit out, because if you remember correctly, Orz (the supposed co-founder) sent Edwin an email saying that he's learned of all, if not most of the accusations we've made against Free were true and told us to keep our eyes peeled because Freelancer was so upset that he was going to try and maliciously attack our site. He didn't come clean about a single, solitary thing, and I seriously doubt that he would. He doesn't have the character to come clean and explain to people that he's a pathological liar and a manipulative, condescending sexist person. The very fact that Freelancer even said "you would have enjoyed it" is him convincing himself that what he's saying to you in his email is going to get your attention. He hasn't changed for a while, and he's not going to change now. He's a scumbag. My opinion is based off of facts, experience, and the result of watching other players get taken advantage of both with time and money. I mean think about it: Who takes down their own site and TS3, and turns around and blames people that left the community for the sole purpose of generating hate and gaining the trust of the sheep involved? I don't care enough about the guy to spend my time maliciously attacking them because I don't blame Team Legacy for a single solitary thing. It's not their fault, Freelancer is a piece of shit. In fact, after reading this entire thread, if someone still choose to join that group, then I would have ZERO sympathy for them. It's not a coincidence that this many people are aware of the issues revolving Freelancer/Michael Foster.
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The story continues. 
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I dont understand.. Serejai whoever he might be seems to be able to ban people, but he allowed that freelance guy to continue making money for 2years without banning him in this forum? wtf. :\
Fuck i get banned from forums just for saying one bad word or something...
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On December 07 2013 05:52 webas wrote:
I dont understand..
Well at least you got one thing right...
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On November 27 2013 04:23 Serejai wrote:
Also I like their achievements in general.
Only one achievement is for Team Legacy. The rest are for "TL" which were all Team Liquid communities he played in. I bet that false association was an accident, too. Lots of accidents.
Just to play fact checker:
The TLs are for Team Legacy in this case, as they did have "chapters" for these games, or had evenings where they would all get together to play.
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On December 06 2013 10:10 Disciple7 wrote:
It's upsetting. I've seen so many good leaders, players, and people go through there that could have made it such a great endeavor.
The kool-aid, bro. It was delicious, for a while.
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Canada11349 Posts
On December 07 2013 05:52 webas wrote:
I dont understand.. Serejai whoever he might be seems to be able to ban people, but he allowed that freelance guy to continue making money for 2years without banning him in this forum? wtf. :\
Fuck i get banned from forums just for saying one bad word or something...
Serejai didn't ban anyone. He did however corroborate or expand upon the sorts of things defmatrix brought up to Kwark. It was TL moderators and Nazgul that discussed this and Nazgul who decided to pull the trigger. Serejai agreed to create a write up given his past knowledge of Free.
Free wasn't banned before simply because he slid under the radar until now.
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On December 07 2013 05:52 webas wrote:
I dont understand.. Serejai whoever he might be seems to be able to ban people, but he allowed that freelance guy to continue making money for 2years without banning him in this forum? wtf. :\
Fuck i get banned from forums just for saying one bad word or something...
HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY MODERATION ABILITIES. I SHALL SMITE YOU DOWN FOR YOUR INSOLENCE.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 07 2013 08:58 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 05:52 webas wrote:
I dont understand.. Serejai whoever he might be seems to be able to ban people, but he allowed that freelance guy to continue making money for 2years without banning him in this forum? wtf. :\
Fuck i get banned from forums just for saying one bad word or something... HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY MODERATION ABILITIES. I SHALL SMITE YOU DOWN FOR YOUR INSOLENCE.
would be ironic if you got banned just like the last ban (when you consider this post) lol
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The question is: Have you ever banned someone with the Error: No Error ban?
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I can understand that Team Liquid staff can be annoyed if someone is siphoning members from them and using their name without their explicit permission.
But I have little respect for the people who have been in these Legacy guilds what ever. I mean if a guild is okay good bad whatever has nothing to do if it is affiliated with team liquid or not and some people only joining them because they wanted to be cool and in a "TL" guild, well ...
You should judge guilds and forums by their actions, progress and people and not with whom they are affiliated or what they claim.
I think the ban is well deserved and it is sad to see that such thing could go one for quite some time. I think some of the people who joined Team Legacy are also to blame for being naive and stupid, although freelancer seemed to be quite an apt liar. His bluff skill must be extremely high XD
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EPT
