EPTThe best part was I was forced to buy crow as mid and he bitches how late my bottle and items were. Luck for me, abbadon and I carried the game to victory. But fuck that kid was heavy.
Dota 2 QQ thread - Page 999
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
The best part was I was forced to buy crow as mid and he bitches how late my bottle and items were. Luck for me, abbadon and I carried the game to victory. But fuck that kid was heavy. | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On March 28 2014 22:52 TheSubtleArt wrote: You're completely missing the point. There WILL be games where your teammates feed, throw and make the game entirely unwinnable. "If you're truly better, you should still be able to carry your team" is an unfair assertion for a lot of games because sometimes your teammates are so bad that the required skill discrepancy needed to "1v5" is gigantic. Noone is saying otherwise. "I'm the better player but I lost the game because of my teammates" is often a very fair statement. What IS dubious, however, is the idea that your teammates are consistently making you lose games; that your MMR, over long stretches of time and numerous games is suffering because of the incompetence of your allies. See the difference? I mean really, think about what this implies. Theres 10 people in a game. 1 Person (lets say Bob) is really good. One or more of the 4 people he gets on his team are horrible (way worse than him) and throw the game. None of the five members on the other team are this bad, none of them suck or become obstacles in winning the game for their team, the feeders are always on Bobs team. But wait, this doesn't happen once or twice. No, Bob is claiming this exact set of circumstances happens enough to keep him from reaching his true MMR. This set of circumstances is somehow always aligned in a way that makes him and nobody else the victim. He never belongs to the group of four underskilled, potential throwers. Nor does he ever belong to the group of 5 people on the non throwy team. Apparently the "ELO hell" complainers think the circumstances are consistently unfavorable for them and nobody else. See my point? It's just basic math... The larger the number of trials, the more likely it is that an event's outcome will reflect it's true probability. If you're truly better than the people in your MMR, then over time, eventually, you'll reach your true MMR because a team with your on it should have a higher probability of winning. If it doesn't then it's time for that person to stop blaming the system and realize they have an inflated perception of their own skill. Edit: Not to mention KDA and GPM are considerations when calibrating ranked MMR I actually understand all these hypothetical situations quite well as they all have a tendency to occur to me at once and then I have to sort it out later. The sheer quantity of games seems to do nothing with "reaching your true MMR". According to 1 account, my "true MMR" is over 4.6k, another account claims my "true MMR" is hovering around 3k and still a third account acquired from a friend down in the 2k range has decided I should be around 3500-3700. Believe me there is nothing anyone can tell me I haven't heard, considered or more than likely was solely responsible for conceptualizing in the first place. The fact remains that across a lot of accounts, I seem to have no consistent rating. The system just tosses me in whereever it wants. If it were in any way a reasonable system, it would be predictable in that the same person given many accounts would all end up at the same point relatively quickly. I am a living example of this not being the case. I hate QQing because bad-starting-scenario games occur. The only way I have achieved any sort of consistent results with this system is to play in a static group because then we always end up around 4.5-5k rating. Sorry but when 8,000 games across 3 accounts can't decide where in a 1600-2000 range I am and even moreso when put in a static group, we all perform decently consistently. Rather than make this any more about the MMR system than it already has become, I'll just end with that I accept all viewpoints as possibly valid since we're all just speculating but that I hold onto my own view since I still have the most test games, test accounts and therefore results than any the netizens have ever performed. Static groups fix most problems I had about the solo qeue and my alleged biases. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On March 28 2014 22:52 TheSubtleArt wrote: You're completely missing the point. There WILL be games where your teammates feed, throw and make the game entirely unwinnable. "If you're truly better, you should still be able to carry your team" is an unfair assertion for a lot of games because sometimes your teammates are so bad that the required skill discrepancy needed to "1v5" is gigantic. Noone is saying otherwise. "I'm the better player but I lost the game because of my teammates" is often a very fair statement. What IS dubious, however, is the idea that your teammates are consistently making you lose games; that your MMR, over long stretches of time and numerous games is suffering because of the incompetence of your allies. See the difference? I mean really, think about what this implies. Theres 10 people in a game. 1 Person (lets say Bob) is really good. One or more of the 4 people he gets on his team are horrible (way worse than him) and throw the game. None of the five members on the other team are this bad, none of them suck or become obstacles in winning the game for their team, the feeders are always on Bobs team. But wait, this doesn't happen once or twice. No, Bob is claiming this exact set of circumstances happens enough to keep him from reaching his true MMR. This set of circumstances is somehow always aligned in a way that makes him and nobody else the victim. He never belongs to the group of four underskilled, potential throwers. Nor does he ever belong to the group of 5 people on the non throwy team. Apparently the "ELO hell" complainers think the circumstances are consistently unfavorable for them and nobody else. See my point? It's just basic math... The larger the number of trials, the more likely it is that an event's outcome will reflect it's true probability. If you're truly better than the people in your MMR, then over time, eventually, you'll reach your true MMR because a team with your on it should have a higher probability of winning. If it doesn't then it's time for that person to stop blaming the system and realize they have an inflated perception of their own skill. Edit: Not to mention KDA and GPM are considerations when calibrating ranked MMR enitrely true BUT it may take months or longer for someone not playing that much for that to even out. you can get insane streaks that are against all odds for ages. thats why even awesome poker players can have week long losing/breakeven times just cause rng fucks em for 50k hands and for joe random 50k hands means most likely 6 months++ of play. and with dotas long time/match and really slow standartized pointgain badluck with teams can have huge impact on the time to reach your true mmr. ofc for many people thats just an excuse, just saying that its entirely possible for people to be way too low/high rated purely cause of the teammates they get. | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
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Harvey18
Netherlands165 Posts
On March 29 2014 06:49 DrPandaPhD wrote: I actually sincerely believe that Invoker is the easiest hero in the game. So little effort required to do so much work in a teamfight. And people think they are good because they are playing him rofl holy shit. Yeah, Invoker isn't that hard. It's really easy to do huge amount of work as a mediocre invoker. The really good invokers do something extra though. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On March 29 2014 03:47 sCCrooked wrote: I actually understand all these hypothetical situations quite well as they all have a tendency to occur to me at once and then I have to sort it out later. The sheer quantity of games seems to do nothing with "reaching your true MMR". According to 1 account, my "true MMR" is over 4.6k, another account claims my "true MMR" is hovering around 3k and still a third account acquired from a friend down in the 2k range has decided I should be around 3500-3700. Believe me there is nothing anyone can tell me I haven't heard, considered or more than likely was solely responsible for conceptualizing in the first place. The fact remains that across a lot of accounts, I seem to have no consistent rating. The system just tosses me in whereever it wants. If it were in any way a reasonable system, it would be predictable in that the same person given many accounts would all end up at the same point relatively quickly. I am a living example of this not being the case. I hate QQing because bad-starting-scenario games occur. The only way I have achieved any sort of consistent results with this system is to play in a static group because then we always end up around 4.5-5k rating. Sorry but when 8,000 games across 3 accounts can't decide where in a 1600-2000 range I am and even moreso when put in a static group, we all perform decently consistently. Rather than make this any more about the MMR system than it already has become, I'll just end with that I accept all viewpoints as possibly valid since we're all just speculating but that I hold onto my own view since I still have the most test games, test accounts and therefore results than any the netizens have ever performed. Static groups fix most problems I had about the solo qeue and my alleged biases. Well I don't know wat to tell you. I have 3 accounts, and if anything I've been shocked at how quickly it starts matching me vs people of my level. I know several people who have multiple accounts and their solo MMRs are almost always within ~500 points of each other (at most). I've also seen several people on reddit do MMR tests and the conclusion always seems to be that MMR is relatively consistent. To be honest I'm doubting your statements, or at least I'm inclined to believe that your methodology lends itself to far less consistency than would be needed to draw meaningful conclusions. Where are you getting your accounts? Just making new ones and grinding enough games to be able to play ranked? Getting them from unranked people and calibrating? Playing a bunch of games with an account that's already ranked? After calibration how many games have you played on these accounts? Are you playing the same set of heroes or roles? Solo or with a stack? On the "incorrectly ranked" accounts, who do you play with and how many post calibration games are there? Sorry but when 8,000 games across 3 accounts Are you sire abouit this? 8000 games is an absolutely extraordinary number of games considering ranked matchmaking has only been out a few months. I have ~2.3k games total and I've been playing Dota regularly for about a year and a half. I can't imagine there are enough hours in the day to play 8k games in the span of 6 months unless you're a pro. Anyway I don't wanna keep clogging this thread with an irrelevant discussion. If you want, feel free to PM me : ) | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
Goddammit that was such an asshole move by them, its unbelievable. | ||
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Veles
United States3280 Posts
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Coil1
128 Posts
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On March 29 2014 09:32 Coil1 wrote: I got a PM from some terrible guy recruiting for his awful team after my last post. 48% win rate. Godawful items on most heroes on his dotabuff. Only 1 post on his TL account. He doesn't even queue ranked. It's hilarious, if not a bit sad, that you say you want people that "don't even have to be competitive, just good to pub with" and when someone sends a PM your reaction is to shit on them on a public forum. I wonder who is more fun to play with. | ||
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Zexion
Sweden971 Posts
1st and 2nd game. Play with some RL friends who are fucking terrible at this game. No clue how to pick, how to lane, how to ward, and how to play as a fucking team. Two of them lost as Void + CM against a solo offlane sniper. HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? I've been playing a lot of solo ranked CM/CD and it seems they a lot of levels below me right now...and I'm only a decent player at 4.3k MMR. Then I decide to go some solo queue. 1st game: We make some mistakes early game but manage to totally dominate mid game. Troll and DK in our team decides to go farming instead of pushing their t3 against a fucking Void and SF. SD in our team constantly tells us to smoke, gang, and push, but they won't listen. We end up losing because SF and Void gets too fat. 2nd game: A guy instapicks captain and picks Sniper, Void, Alche, and Ursa. One in the team says that he knows this guy and that he has done this before. Ruin drafts and then feeding. We never even got to that because one in the team took an abandon, so the game didn't count. Who the fuck does that? | ||
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MMDT
United Kingdom117 Posts
What matchmaking needs is to group people who actually talk. There's nothing more depressing than being in a losing game where you're the only one ever saying anything for 50 minutes. I'm so sick of trying to organize things among people who either can't understand me or don't give a shit | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On March 29 2014 09:32 Coil1 wrote: I got a PM from some terrible guy recruiting for his awful team after my last post. 48% win rate. Godawful items on most heroes on his dotabuff. Only 1 post on his TL account. He doesn't even queue ranked. what is wrong with you | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
next game captain drafts the classic kunkka sf mag ds razor lineup........ | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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suicideyear
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
On March 29 2014 09:32 Coil1 wrote: I got a PM from some terrible guy recruiting for his awful team after my last post. 48% win rate. Godawful items on most heroes on his dotabuff. Only 1 post on his TL account. He doesn't even queue ranked. well you have not being a name namer going for you but not much else in life | ||
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njt7
Sweden769 Posts
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ScarPe
Germany392 Posts
that did use his ultimate TWICE in a 35 min game. 1) tier 1 mid 2) min 15 rosh we lost. | ||
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Animzor
Sweden2154 Posts
On March 29 2014 09:32 Coil1 wrote: I got a PM from some terrible guy recruiting for his awful team after my last post. 48% win rate. Godawful items on most heroes on his dotabuff. Only 1 post on his TL account. He doesn't even queue ranked. Wow, what a tough guy you are. | ||
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Animzor
Sweden2154 Posts
On March 29 2014 16:10 njt7 wrote: WHATE FACK is wrong with people, geting flamed for having bad farm when I only had a couple of minutes of free farm rest was contested. Going to look at the replay, I actually had most networth in the whole fucking game at the point when they start flaming me and give up from that point. WHAT DA FREAKEING FACK? Don't worry, it's not about you. Your team will always pick the one thing that is easiest to blame and stick with that. | ||
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