On January 17 2013 06:18 MisterJef wrote: I don't understand ? I've been working in computer for about 5 years now I know what i'm tallking about. I've built alot of gaming pc's and never EVER would I put a power supply under 500w.... skyR you're right 400w is plenty for an office pc that only does office and basic stuff...
You don't understand because the 430w isn't the number that is important. That is the combined wattage for every rail in the PSU and what really matters for our purposes are the 12V rail(s).
This "430w" PSU could power a system much better than some "600w" PSUs purely due to the "600w" PSU being having a single 12V rail or low amperage on that rail.
On January 17 2013 09:18 Seraphic wrote: My suggestion is, since I'm also very picky when it comes to my computer is to find a higher PSU and plug it in and see. If that is truly your issue then you would know right away. If it isn't then it is something else in your computer that had died on you.
How do you think that turning on a computer is going to draw over 400w? As stated earlier, at full load it's going to be well under 300w, and at turning on the computer alone, it's going to draw like 100w. Drawing a smiley face on the power socket would be of equal usefulness, that is to say, none at all.
And that's even before you enter the realm of power efficiency, which also plays a large role in the above picture.
Common misconception. Ideally an 80% power efficient 400w powersupply can supply 400w (as advertised), but it will draw 500w from the wall. In other words, powersupplies that correct state their ability to supply power should (ideally) deliver the same amount regardless of efficiency rating. In reality higher efficiency (more expensive) power supplies are generally rated under their maximum supplied amount, which skews things.
On January 17 2013 09:34 MisterJef wrote: No I said a 400w is ok for an office pc that doesn't have a big graphic card. A pc that people use to do word and excel... For gaming you need more.
MisterJef, here is a benchmark from anandtech showing total system power drawn (from the wall? Not sure on this one). Just so you know, it's not just the graphics card. As you can clearly see, even a 680 is barely above 350w load, and this isn't with an ivy bridge cpu, I can't remember what they're using, it may be an i7-9xx, which is way less power efficient.
If you wish to refute this point, please provide some evidence measuring a power draw of over 400w for a 650ti on a modern intel system. Saying things like "I've been making computers for 5 years, I must know what I'm talking about!" means nothing, I know a lot of people that have been driving for more than 5 years, yet they're still horrific at it.
And that's even before you enter the realm of power efficiency, which also plays a large role in the above picture.
Common misconception. Ideally an 80% power efficient 400w powersupply can supply 400w (as advertised), but it will draw 500w from the wall. In other words, powersupplies that correct state their ability to supply power should (ideally) deliver the same amount regardless of efficiency rating. In reality higher efficiency (more expensive) power supplies are generally rated under their maximum supplied amount, which skews things.
On January 17 2013 06:18 MisterJef wrote: I don't understand ? I've been working in computer for about 5 years now I know what i'm tallking about. I've built alot of gaming pc's and never EVER would I put a power supply under 500w.... skyR you're right 400w is plenty for an office pc that only does office and basic stuff...
If you've never put less than a 500W PSU in a pc how can you conclude that a high quality 430W unit isn't enough power? It sounds like a common misconception that you've just never been corrected on.
No I said a 400w is ok for an office pc that doesn't have a big graphic card. A pc that people use to do word and excel... For gaming you need more.
Ya I get that. I'm asking why you think 430W is too little power for a gaming pc. You cite 5 years of pc building experience but you also say you never put less than 500W in a pc. How does that bolster your position? If you had said you've tried using ~400W units and the pc didn't work or would shut off then you have some evidence. (Of course my next question would be what brand and model 400W PSU did u use)
On January 17 2013 05:37 MisterJef wrote: I'm 100% sure it's your power supply. 430w isn't enough for a gaming pc.... I would say the minimum you need is a 600 or 650 I would highly recommand you go for a 650 it's always good to have a bit more... I'm just hoping when the power supply blew up it didn't kill anything else... PM me if you need help with something about your PC
This is incorrect. A 430 watt power supply is sufficient enough to run his rig and is overkill :p You should watch this:
Computers never start using over 600w+ unless you are using sli or crossfire setups
On January 17 2013 05:37 MisterJef wrote: I'm 100% sure it's your power supply. 430w isn't enough for a gaming pc.... I would say the minimum you need is a 600 or 650 I would highly recommand you go for a 650 it's always good to have a bit more... I'm just hoping when the power supply blew up it didn't kill anything else... PM me if you need help with something about your PC
On January 17 2013 06:18 MisterJef wrote: I don't understand ? I've been working in computer for about 5 years now I know what i'm tallking about. I've built alot of gaming pc's and never EVER would I put a power supply under 500w.... skyR you're right 400w is plenty for an office pc that only does office and basic stuff...
If you've never put less than a 500W PSU in a pc how can you conclude that a high quality 430W unit isn't enough power? It sounds like a common misconception that you've just never been corrected on.
No I said a 400w is ok for an office pc that doesn't have a big graphic card. A pc that people use to do word and excel... For gaming you need more.
._. I have a 305w psu powering a i5 2320 and a 5850 (oc'd to 5870) and I have no problems.
Regardless of whether or not that power supply can adequately power the system (I have no comment either way), if the system died in the middle of doing nothing taxing, and will not power on (no POST beep, no fans spinning, no lights, notthing) it sounds like the main power circuit has a break in it. Pressing the power button should elicit some kind of response, otherwise. Even something as simple as the fans twitching as power is applied.
While there are different reasons this can happen, the first step I would recommend (assuming you weren't kicking the case and accidentally knocked components loose) is to test the power supply. (Someone else already gave one method, although I'm leary myself of hotwiring anything with a paperclip - but I guess if you don't have a meter or tester it could work.) The second thing I'd check is the big capacitors on the motherboard for signs that they've decided to fail - forming a bubble at the top, discoloration, even cracking open.
Even the best manufacturers sometimes have equipment that will just fail. And if your strip isn't a surge protector, depending on your electrical supply, random variations in line power can hasten a failure. (Fun fact - never tell tech support that there was an electrical storm (thunderstorm) around the time of a failure. Because that's a quick way to "act of god" and "covered by homeowner's/renter's insurance". Source? I have worked in a Tech Support call center. It's written into the script a lot of the time.) Also, I live in Florida, and have been a customer of FPL, aka Florida Flicker'n Flash. While you don't need to go crazy with power smoothing/filtering crap for the most part, normal line voltage can be subject to surges, drops, and occassional other oddities that stresses electronics. Computers and computer components can be sensitive to that, and a strong surge can negatively impact things. Sometimes that includes power supplies - blowing out fuses or internal breakers to save the more delicate stuff it powers. Actually, thinking of that, something else you might try is resetting the little switch (usually but not always red) on the back of the power supply that sets incoming line voltage. (Usually has two positions, marked as "110" or "115" and "220" - if you're in the US, should be 110/115. While unplugged, move it from 110 to 220 and then back to 110. (Or the other way, if you're in an area with the higher line voltage.) It's worked for me in the past, but I couldn't tell you why.
On January 17 2013 06:18 MisterJef wrote: I don't understand ? I've been working in computer for about 5 years now I know what i'm tallking about. I've built alot of gaming pc's and never EVER would I put a power supply under 500w.... skyR you're right 400w is plenty for an office pc that only does office and basic stuff...
If you've never put less than a 500W PSU in a pc how can you conclude that a high quality 430W unit isn't enough power? It sounds like a common misconception that you've just never been corrected on.
No I said a 400w is ok for an office pc that doesn't have a big graphic card. A pc that people use to do word and excel... For gaming you need more.
Please link something indicating that.
Like this, you know. Where the only thing that even goes over 400W is a 7970 Ghz edition. A GTX 680 pulls 362 watts. And iirc, it is from the wall which is another 15% or something? AND that ignores that quality power supplies can often deliver more than their rated wattage. Plus anybody buying a 680 or 7970 will be getting a Rosewill Capstone 450/550W or something of similar quality, which is way more than enough.
Or here, where the only thing that peaks 400W is a 6990 and 590, both of which are technically SLI/crossfire cards.
Or here, where again, the only thing peaking 400W is a 7970 on Furmark.
And you still haven't taken into account power at the wall or PSU efficiency. And certainly you don't want a cheap 400W model to power a 7970 Ghz edition, but the point is 400W being enough for "office use" is ludicrous. A GTX 650 takes up 250 watts (not even) on anandtech's site. A GTX 660 doesn't even break 300. That's pretty solidly midrange hardware.
Edit: Saw above, good point. They use an i7-3920X or some LGA2011 CPU in those power tests on Anandtech, which is going to skyrocket the power consumption anyways. Also note that a 400W 80% efficient PSU will draw 500W from the wall, which is where we're measuring at most 400W on these systems.
Just a thought OP, did you power cycle your pc? Unplug the power cable, hold in the power button to clear any charge built in the capacitors, then plug everything back in and try booting normally.
On January 17 2013 11:47 felisconcolori wrote: While there are different reasons this can happen, the first step I would recommend (assuming you weren't kicking the case and accidentally knocked components loose) is to test the power supply. (Someone else already gave one method, although I'm leary myself of hotwiring anything with a paperclip - but I guess if you don't have a meter or tester it could work.) The second thing I'd check is the big capacitors on the motherboard for signs that they've decided to fail - forming a bubble at the top, discoloration, even cracking open.
I know for sure I didn't kick anything loose and double checked that the connections were all good. Just checked the capacitors and everything seems fine.
On January 17 2013 17:24 Az0r_au wrote: Just a thought OP, did you power cycle your pc? Unplug the power cable, hold in the power button to clear any charge built in the capacitors, then plug everything back in and try booting normally.
Just tried this and nothing happened.
Hmmm. So I'm still not sure if it's just the power supply but I don't have any extras lying around since I just moved into a new apartment. Crossing my fingers it is and bought a 600W PSU. Hopefully this works T_T
Also, anyone know why it would just randomly die after 2 weeks of working perfectly? It just crapped out because it was insufficient?
If the new PSU doesn't work then something isn't functioning with your PC. I would move from the most important down, and hope for the best. Mobo would be my 2nd guess, it can only be 2 things that are preventing you from even turning your comp on. If both fails then I have no idea what is going on.
As for the "argument" his PSU is enough to run what he have but none of you are actually helping. his PSU is enough but that does not solve the issue that it might be a faulty PSU. I have said above I prefer to have more than what I need. Don't nick pick details because you believe other wise. So stop with the none sense and help this man and bring your convo some where else. Stop derailing the topic because of several wats of power.
On January 17 2013 18:35 Seraphic wrote: If the new PSU doesn't work then something isn't functioning with your PC. I would move from the most important down, and hope for the best.
As for the "argument" his PSU is enough to run what he have but none of you are actually helping. his PSU is enough but does not that solve the issue that it might be a faulty PSU. I have said above I prefer to have more than what I need. Don't nick pick details because you believe other wise. So stop with the none sense and help this man and bring your convo some where else.
It started with someone saying it was his PSU because it wasn't enough to run his pc. You can't expect people to leave such claim alone when it's blatantly not true in this case and is directly related to his problem if it would be the case... It's not about personal preference or nitpicking.
It also seems like people that don't understand psu's only stare themselves blind on the wattage number. His psu is better than a lot of crappy psu's that have higher wattage. That people constantly suggest "you should have a 600 W psu" when that's not what they should be focusing on is rather frustrating at times. And if he'd buy an 600 W psu and it would work they'd pat themselves on the back for being right for the wrong reasons.
On January 17 2013 18:35 Seraphic wrote: If the new PSU doesn't work then something isn't functioning with your PC. I would move from the most important down, and hope for the best.
As for the "argument" his PSU is enough to run what he have but none of you are actually helping. his PSU is enough but does not that solve the issue that it might be a faulty PSU. I have said above I prefer to have more than what I need. Don't nick pick details because you believe other wise. So stop with the none sense and help this man and bring your convo some where else.
It started with someone saying it was his PSU because it wasn't enough to run his pc. You can't expect people to leave such claim alone when it's blatantly not true in this case and is directly related to his problem if it would be the case... It's not about personal preference or nitpicking.
It also seems like people that don't understand psu's only stare themselves blind on the wattage number. His psu is better than a lot of crappy psu's that have higher wattage. That people constantly suggest "you should have a 600 W psu" when that's not what they should be focusing on is rather frustrating at times. And if he'd buy an 600 W psu and it would work they'd pat themselves on the back for being right for the wrong reasons.
On January 17 2013 18:35 Seraphic wrote: If the new PSU doesn't work then something isn't functioning with your PC. I would move from the most important down, and hope for the best.
As for the "argument" his PSU is enough to run what he have but none of you are actually helping. his PSU is enough but does not that solve the issue that it might be a faulty PSU. I have said above I prefer to have more than what I need. Don't nick pick details because you believe other wise. So stop with the none sense and help this man and bring your convo some where else.
It started with someone saying it was his PSU because it wasn't enough to run his pc. You can't expect people to leave such claim alone when it's blatantly not true in this case and is directly related to his problem if it would be the case... It's not about personal preference or nitpicking.
It also seems like people that don't understand psu's only stare themselves blind on the wattage number. His psu is better than a lot of crappy psu's that have higher wattage. That people constantly suggest "you should have a 600 W psu" when that's not what they should be focusing on is rather frustrating at times. And if he'd buy an 600 W psu and it would work they'd pat themselves on the back for being right for the wrong reasons.
So help me out, what should I do then? Lol >_<
A did a little research about your power supply and I read some reviews where some people(very few) had it where the PSU died right after they purchased it(1-2 weeks of it running fine), this was through an online retailer(i forget the name) Do you have a warranty on the power supply or are you just going to buy another? I'd recommend you first go into a computer shop so they can identify the problem.
Trying to fix the problem yourself will most likely not help you and only waste time as you don't 100% know the issue.
Not all 600w psu's are bad, just unnecessary. If you're going to buy a new PSU, tell us what it was so that we can recommend a good one in case you bought a bad psu.
for what its worth though, rosewill capstone series is pretty much the best sub 75$ series you can grab, in case you end up needing to return.
On January 17 2013 18:35 Seraphic wrote: If the new PSU doesn't work then something isn't functioning with your PC. I would move from the most important down, and hope for the best. Mobo would be my 2nd guess, it can only be 2 things that are preventing you from even turning your comp on. If both fails then I have no idea what is going on.
As for the "argument" his PSU is enough to run what he have but none of you are actually helping. his PSU is enough but that does not solve the issue that it might be a faulty PSU. I have said above I prefer to have more than what I need. Don't nick pick details because you believe other wise. So stop with the none sense and help this man and bring your convo some where else. Stop derailing the topic because of several wats of power.
This isn't an argument. You and MisterJef are simply wrong about the power supply not being adequate or borderline.
It was actually you two who started to derail the thread with wrong information. Everyone else just feels the need to correct it because it is so blatantly wrong. Also, you're being a hypocrite because you aren't helping either. You just pushed your purchasing habits and irrelevant brand preferences onto the individual, which unfortunately ended up being successful and making them waste money, hopefully on a CX600 because that's the only 600w unit that isn't overpriced, old, or garbage.
Suggesting someone to purchase a higher capacity power supply because their power supply randomly died is bad advice regardless of how you look at it. There are many power supplies rated at higher capacities that perform worse and/or deliver less power than lower rated units. In this case, the power supply not being adequate for the configuration isn't the problem. There's also a very good chance that the individual who listens to you is going to make poor purchases throughout their life.
People have already mentioned that it might be a dead power supply. Rannasha explained how to test the power supply but it fell on deaf ears. There is nothing more to say until the OP actually tests the power supply or simply RMA it.
The manufacturing and quality control of consumer electronics is not perfect so electronics can and will unexpectedly die. This was also briefly mentioned by felisconcolori but apparently it fell on deaf ears again. It's just a fact of life and there's nothing you can do about it.
On January 18 2013 01:44 50bani wrote: Well, are you sure it is your PSU, theognis? At least try the famous "paperclip test"
Yeah, one of my friends told me to do this last night. The fan didn't work so either I set the paperclip up wrong or the PSU is dead.
On January 18 2013 00:04 Alryk wrote: Not all 600w psu's are bad, just unnecessary. If you're going to buy a new PSU, tell us what it was so that we can recommend a good one in case you bought a bad psu.
for what its worth though, rosewill capstone series is pretty much the best sub 75$ series you can grab, in case you end up needing to return.
Ah, shit. I already ordered haha. Sorry, I just kind of need to get my computer up and running ASAP since it's kind of my livelihood atm ><. I got a Coolermaster. *Shrug* The reviews on Newegg were decent and I recognized the brand. If it craps out I will definitely look into a rosewill capstone. Thanks
Alright. For future reference, it's often better to diagnose the problem before you buy new things ^.^ it can end up saving you money in the end, even if you have to spend a few hours diagnosing. The problem was likely your PSU, but on the off chance that it wasn't, you'll end up with a PSU you didn't need to buy, and a still broken computer (and a few wasted days). Obviously your time is pretty sensitive though.
EPT
