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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On April 23 2013 23:12 IceBergZ wrote: so high, what league u in ? wanna do survey does dpi effect yr skill i'm high masters on NA. play GMs occasionally. not particularly extraordinary. i'm definitely considering changing my dpi after reading this thread but low dpi hard to believe in o: | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
This is what it looks like when you don't have muscle memory down (i missed two or three start circles and messed up several more to score 100 instead of 300's) Shocked at how not-catastrophically failed this map was.. 87% in six tries, playing without clicks though. After playing for a long time i actually feel 630dpi on 1920x1080 is really great for Osu and sc2 (osu in a 4:3 window), i actually tried to change up towards 810/900/990 steps, but after playing with the top one comfortably for a day and then 810 for a day and experimenting a lot with Osu, i feel 630 is just better than both 450 and 990, in that 450 just feels a bit low for it's increased accuracy to be better, but going above 630 step costs accuracy without really helping in that for example you can already reach everything and it does not make it much easier, and changing to this kind of grip (base of palm support, almost nothing relying on mouse fingers 1 and 2) seems best for me, complete freedom of movement while having the mouse support from the base of palm (but not too much of it) and pain/discomfort comes elsewhere, not in the wrist. The STABILITY from base of palm contact point is 10000% neccesary for Osu maps like this, i think, need to throw the weight of the mouse around so much without it turning or slipping too far or not far enough. Maybe that's partly in the deathadder 3.5g weighing a bit, being longer than some mice and having a weird center of gravity though - If i could make a CM spawn stormadder or even a couple of other mouse shells, i would not hesitate You can see though from that vid, and the reason i wanted to make it - very little wrist pivoting, actually wrist is locked or free with this kind of grip, which i am >90% sure the guy in the previous video was using. If you develop wrist problems from this kind of grip and DPI, i dunno what to say, you're doing it wrong i think, because i used from 360 to 3200dpi for an extensive period of time (100+ hours, with some for 1000+) and experienced pain from pretty much everything doing it wrong, but not even discomfort in wrist at this dpi and type of grip, because you kinda just don't use it, which is really great. Nobody ever quit sc2 because their upper arm muscles burned a bit from too much or too stressful mouse usage If anybody backing >2k DPI wants to go download this Osu map and post vids, it's over at http://osu.ppy.sh/s/41823 I am kinda legitimately curious if it can be done (pretty sure higher than med sens is kinda a big handicap here..) but either it can, and somebody posts vid and i learn from it, or it can't be done easily at all and it kinda reinforces point on low-med sens of 450-1600dpi on 1920x1080, like if anyone can do this map on 3.2k dpi i will be seriously impressed, because what would take me 3 minutes to learn on 630dpi would take me 20 to learn on 3.2k, if i could even do it | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I now consider myself as someone with a very good mouse precision (I can stutter step a reaper while target firing a hurt speedling, just to tell you the kind of shit I was striving to be able to do), and I'm often amazed at how foreigner mouses seem unaccurate... So much clicking around. Also I'm a MarineKing fanboy and MarineKing plays a G9x at 800 dpi so it was all the more worth it :p. Edit: Forgot to precise: obviously with 51% ingame, 6/11 windows and mouse precision registry edit and whatnot :D Edit2: Here's a video of me playing vs an AI: + Show Spoiler + I regularly record some "mechanics" test runs to benchmark my progress in regards to APM, mouse precision, overall "cleanliness" and all that good jazz. I don't know if that's weird or not haha :D But you can see that I don't really misclick, yet play at a decent speed (for the 1v1 platinum that I am :D) with my 1000 dpi setting. Of course it's no real game, but I don't really panic much in "urgency" situations anyway. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:24 AnomalySC2 wrote: 800 dpi, 6/11 windows sens with acceleration turned off. I also disable mouse sensitivity within sc2. I've beaten many known GMs and regularly hang around high masters if I play. I got the idea to use these settings after researching what MVP uses. My mouse is a Kana. That's the way to do it  Apparently though, it's better to enable sc2 mouse sensitivity to 51-54% because the mouse won't lag when windows is lagging (or something like that). But really it probably doesn't matter that much either way. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:38 Thor.Rush wrote: That's the way to do it Apparently though, it's better to enable sc2 mouse sensitivity to 51-54% because the mouse won't lag when windows is lagging (or something like that). But really it probably doesn't matter that much either way. I have not noticed any lag however that doesn't mean I'm not simply just used to it. If I get in the mood for some more SC2 I'll give that a try, thanks. But yeah I can't recommend those settings enough to basically every player trying to up their game. You will become so much more confident in your micro. Hell, I used to rely purely on my macro and game knowledge to win games but now I'm not afraid to slip in some purely micro based rushes from time to time. | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 23 2013 08:12 LA_Morello wrote: 6/11 on Windows, 55% on SC2. 3500FPI/1000Hz. Don’t use 55 % in SC 2. Use 51 % instead. Or else this could happen. On April 26 2013 01:38 Thor.Rush wrote: Apparently though, it's better to enable sc2 mouse sensitivity to 51-54% because the mouse won't lag when windows is lagging (or something like that). But really it probably doesn't matter that much either way. Theoretically it’s faster, though that should not be noticeable. Additionally: If you’re playing at LANs or tournaments, controlling sensitivity with SC 2 is just more convenient. On April 26 2013 00:52 ZenithM wrote: I gradually reduced my DPI from something like 1800 down to 800, with much work. Basically decreased the dpi of my G9x 100 by 100, and playing weeks at the same setting. Nice. This is how it’s done. I assume you stopped lowering your CPI because you had reached your idols CPI? ;P On April 26 2013 00:52 ZenithM wrote: mouse precision registry edit and whatnot :D You don’t need to edit your registry, as SC 2 enables no hidden acceleration. On April 26 2013 00:52 ZenithM wrote: Edit2: Here's a video of me playing vs an AI: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL8FpMOvDlg I watched it and noticed that you’re boxing in a suboptimal way. Try boxing from top left to bottom right, this should be faster. On April 26 2013 00:52 ZenithM wrote: I regularly record some "mechanics" test runs to benchmark my progress in regards to APM, mouse precision, overall "cleanliness" and all that good jazz. I don't know if that's weird or not haha :D That’s awesome. On April 24 2013 09:33 Cyro wrote: i feel 630 is just better than both 450 and 990, in that 450 just feels a bit low for it's increased accuracy to be better, but going above 630 step costs accuracy without really helping in that for example you can already reach everything and it does not make it much easier I too feel a bit limited by 450 CPI, but with 800 CPI it’s just as you said: I already can reach everything with 600 CPI so 800 CPI actually makes me slower. On April 24 2013 09:33 Cyro wrote: changing to this kind of grip (base of palm support, almost nothing relying on mouse fingers 1 and 2) seems best for me, complete freedom of movement while having the mouse support from the base of palm (but not too much of it) and pain/discomfort comes elsewhere, not in the wrist. The STABILITY from base of palm contact point is 10000% neccesary for Osu maps like this There we are, discussing mouse grips again.  Am I correct in assuming that you only use your arm for vertical movements? Don’t you have the feeling you’re loosing precision through not using your mouse fingers 1 and 2? On April 24 2013 09:33 Cyro wrote: i think, need to throw the weight of the mouse around so much without it turning or slipping too far or not far enough. Maybe that's partly in the deathadder 3.5g weighing a bit, being longer than some mice and having a weird center of gravity though - If i could make a CM spawn stormadder or even a couple of other mouse shells, i would not hesitate The DA really is heavy. I think the lighter a mouse, the better. If you have soldering experience you could go for a KinzuAdder. StormAdder sounds interesting, I have never heard of this Frankenmouse before. ^^ | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
1400pts masters | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 26 2013 20:02 Pulimuli wrote: 1800dpi 1000hz max sens in windows w/ pointer precision and 100% in sc2 Sarcasm? | ||
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Slipspace
United States381 Posts
the blue poster from page one saying people dont play with over 2000 dpi is just blatantly wrong a lot of people take the time to adjust to a higher dpi setting so they dont have to move their wrist as much when they use their computers and i can click very accurately | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 26 2013 20:02 Pulimuli wrote: 1800dpi 1000hz max sens in windows w/ pointer precision and 100% in sc2 1400pts masters In case this wasn’t sarcasm: Your settings are insanely bad. First you shouldn’t set your mouse on 1000 Hz when you’re using it with over 1000 CPI. Else your mouse jitters. Second: Pointer precision enables acceleration, which is in general regarded as very bad for SC 2. Third: By using 11/11 in Windows and 100 % in SC 2 you mouse cursor skips pixels and moves inconsistent. Instead of this your mouse moves like this. And finally: Your sensitivity is overall way too high. 11/11 in Windows and 100 % in SC 2 make your mouse behave like it had 6300 CPI (!). Even on a monitor with a 4K resolution that’d be too much. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Poe's law, named after its author Nathan Poe, is an Internet adage reflecting the idea that without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of extremism. There we are, discussing mouse grips again. Am I correct in assuming that you only use your arm for vertical movements? Don’t you have the feeling you’re loosing precision through not using your mouse fingers 1 and 2? It's impossible to use mouse fingers 1 and 2 from a proper claw grip, unless you break the contact point on the base of your palm. Actually, it's kinda impossible to use mouse fingers 1 and 2 at all - it's just not part of the grip. It's very hard to get right, i am still learning and its pretty much impossible to explain a lot of mouse grips, like lifting form, it's so so easy to do something slightly different that completely changes the whole thing, accidentally Look at this: + Show Spoiler + How little the type of grip relies on mouse fingers 1 and 2, and he clearly has accuracy i did not even think possible on an avago 9800 The DA really is heavy. I think the lighter a mouse, the better. If you have soldering experience you could go for a KinzuAdder. StormAdder sounds interesting, I have never heard of this Frankenmouse before. ^^ I think lighter = better too, i have no experience, but with the DA aparantly being heavy (i hear this everywhere) you can definitely feel the difficulty in changing it's velocity. Stormadder was just made up on the spot, i doubt you can do it (kinzuadder only works because circuitboard size fits in the shell etc) | ||
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KaoReal
Canada340 Posts
EDIT: One thing that I noticed was somewhat difficult to adjust to is screen-scrolling. I know it is a sub-optimal way to navigate, and I do use location cameras, but sometimes it is necessary. It feels like my mouse isn't reaching my screen edge quite as fast as I'm used to and it's causing me to pull the mouse off the edge of the screen before I've scrolled as far as I'd intended. It will probably just require a little more getting used to, but I'm considering increasing scroll speed to compensate. Ironically, I was considering reducing my scroll speed prior to the DPI reduction in order to discourage myself from screen scrolling unnecessarily! | ||
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mafaba
Germany73 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I play largely from the wrist because of A) the way my desk is set up and B) the wrist-pad I use You could injure yourself using a desk or posture setup that limits you in those ways (A) more details? And wrist pads... nonononononono Wrist-level sensitivites are arguably ok, but wrist pads especially if you mean those gel things are just death. They're designed for office workers, not playing RTS/FPS Screen scrolling is one thing that holds you back a bit, seing as touching the bottomleft side of the screen and then the topright is the biggest movement you have to make.. If you're limited at all (by dpi, or combination of grip and dpi) then it will show up there first, but i actually had more problem because i don't do that, with drag scrolling - drag scroll in sc2 scales with DPI, which means that while you can cross the entire screen in 4 inches, you often have to move like 10 inches to do certain movements with drag scroll that you can do in 2.5 inches with 4x the dpi, which starts to present a problem, i was looking for a workaround for a long time to increase mouse sensitivity (does not really matter for "pixel perfect" etc) while middle mouse was pressed, so i could drag scroll a lot easier, because you can functionally use as much as 5-20x the sens on drag scroll than you want ingame, because of how it functions, but i decided to up sens instead of using 360/450 steps and having to compensate for being stuck in mud a bit in terms of camera movement, because i did do that naturally, with camera hotkeys, double tapping to units etc, but it's a handicap and i don't like it - 630 or 720 should completely remove that though, and it's probably personal a bit when it starts to come in as limiting options | ||
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KaoReal
Canada340 Posts
On April 27 2013 01:31 Cyro wrote: You could injure yourself using a desk or posture setup that limits you in those ways (A) more details? And wrist pads... nonononononono Wrist-level sensitivites are arguably ok, but wrist pads especially if you mean those gel things are just death. They're designed for office workers, not playing RTS/FPS Screen scrolling is one thing that holds you back a bit, seing as touching the bottomleft side of the screen and then the topright is the biggest movement you have to make.. If you're limited at all (by dpi, or combination of grip and dpi) then it will show up there first, but i actually had more problem because i don't do that, with drag scrolling - drag scroll in sc2 scales with DPI, which means that while you can cross the entire screen in 4 inches, you often have to move like 10 inches to do certain movements with drag scroll that you can do in 2.5 inches with 4x the dpi, which starts to present a problem, i was looking for a workaround for a long time to increase mouse sensitivity (does not really matter for "pixel perfect" etc) while middle mouse was pressed, so i could drag scroll a lot easier, because you can functionally use as much as 5-20x the sens on drag scroll than you want ingame, because of how it functions, but i decided to up sens instead of using 360/450 steps and having to compensate for being stuck in mud a bit in terms of camera movement, because i did do that naturally, with camera hotkeys, double tapping to units etc, but it's a handicap and i don't like it - 630 or 720 should completely remove that though, and it's probably personal a bit when it starts to come in as limiting options Elaboration on point A might be difficult without pictures, but I will try. The maximum distance that I can have my monitor from my face (due to space restrictions) is about an arm-length, which is appropriate, but this requires me to have the chair somewhat distanced from the desk, meaning that my arms cannot be at 90 degree angles at the elbows. They're more like 45 degrees to the armrest, and then extend horizontally in order to reach my peripherals. The issue arises when my chair height is compared to my desk height. The armrest is slightly lower (less than an inch) than the desk, so when I rest my elbow on the armrest and my hand on the mouse, the edge of the desk intrudes on the space that my forearm occupies, causing an unwanted pivot point about half way up my forearm. I circumvented the issue a long time ago by using this wrist pad: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX15975 It is just tall enough to stop the desk edge from going into my forearm, but also causes me to have a wrist pivot because it acts somewhat like an anchor in that it doesn't slide around much. It is quite firm. EDIT: Are you saying that the higher my DPI is, the faster the screen will scroll when my mouse is connecting with the edge of the screen? That would explain the mental disconnect I'm having with that one issue in particular in my adjustment to the new DPI. Please verify! EDIT2: I should mention that I was under the impression that a wrist rest was a good thing because it reduces the bend in the wrist. I thought the upward bend in the wrist when normally using computer peripherals was to be avoided. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
And second question, you are right, but you should sit on some folded up towels or something to raise height, not use a wrist wrest or something to compensate for it Why do you need chair distanced from desk? I view screen at a distance where if i reach out with my hand, my entire hand goes past the screen and wrist is about even with it, though some would call it a bit close you shouldn't have to sit back really far i think. Maybe this is not optimal, but AFAIK it's the best thing to do, at least the chair thing. My chair/desk height gives the same thing | ||
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KaoReal
Canada340 Posts
I'll give the seat thing a try. I also had a question about mouse grip and vertical screen movement. I feel like I might need to adjust my grip for comfort with these changes to my setup. If I were to use a palm grip, I imagine I'd pull back or push forward on the mouse from my shoulder/elbow, using my weenis as a sort of lubricant between my elbow and the armrest? For a loose/floating fingertip grip, would I do the same, or use a fingertip opening/closing movement to do vertical cursor movements? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I don't use palm, because i think it's just flat out worse at "low" sensitivity levels For a fingertip grip you can use a mixture of fingertip movements and moving the arm (at shoulder/elbow), i don't like pivoting the wrist (partially because it rotates the mouse, which means moving the arm left/right will now move cursor diagonally instead of left/right) | ||
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