EPTHow is your mouse set for Starcraft 2?
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HammerStarcraft
Canada37 Posts
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Tomba
Norway106 Posts
And why not just turn mouse sensitivity off in sc2? Then you will have the same sens as everywhere else. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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HammerStarcraft
Canada37 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:38 Tomba wrote: Put windows settings to 6/11, turn enhance pointer precision off, and adjust dpi to find correct sens for you. And why not just turn mouse sensitivity off in sc2? Then you will have the same sens as everywhere else. That's awesome, I didn't even think of that lol. Thanks brotha On September 29 2012 06:49 Nimix wrote: As said above, 6/11 windows sens is default and will prevent pixel jumping, then remove sc2 sens. A lot of players use between 800 and 1200 DPI, 1200 DPI being already quite high. Demuslim said on his stream he uses 1070, I use 800. It's a matter of preference anyway, but around those numbers you have a good speed/precision compromise. I don't know how people can play at 3200 DPI as I saw in other threads x_x Thanks man, appreciate it | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5501 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:49 Nimix wrote: As said above, 6/11 windows sens is default and will prevent pixel jumping, then remove sc2 sens. A lot of players use between 800 and 1200 DPI, 1200 DPI being already quite high. Demuslim said on his stream he uses 1070, I use 800. It's a matter of preference anyway, but around those numbers you have a good speed/precision compromise. I don't know how people can play at 3200 DPI as I saw in other threads x_x I'm curious as to whether any legitimately good players use 3200 DPI and above. I've tried and its completely rediculous. | ||
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HammerStarcraft
Canada37 Posts
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5501 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:55 Hammer77 wrote: Does a mouse "track' better if the DPI is higher and sensitivity set lower? Having the sensitivity in windows set to anything besides 6/11 in windows and 51-53% or off completely in sc2 will make your "tracking" imperfect. | ||
xHQx
Russian Federation601 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:34 Hammer77 wrote: I just purchased a new mouse and was wondering if it's best to turn up the DPI and lower the sensitivity in-game? I know there are threads on mouse settings here but I have yet to find out a definitive answer on this. Cheers. should always use 6/11 in windows and same in sc2 (50%+-2, or just turn it off) as for Hz - download mouse rate checker and figure out on how much Hz your rate is 100% of time is the same when you're moving mouse with different speed and in different directions | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:55 Hammer77 wrote: Does a mouse "track' better if the DPI is higher and sensitivity set lower? No. The most accurate area of the screen you can mouse on to is a single pixel. The mouse already does this, at 800dpi you are telling it to move 800 of these little jumps per inch of movement, at 1000dpi you are telling it to move 1000. Having sensitivity scales messed up (not at 6/11, 51-54%, driver settings wrong) will just result in inconsistent and inaccurate movement. If you are refering to smoothness of movement etc, no, it wont change at all, as long as you are on the right scale settings (6/11 in windows, 51-54% in sc2). By raising DPI you are telling your mouse to move 1 pixel more often in movement (in very exact margins), but by lowering sensitivity, you are telling windows to, for example, ignore the mouse a third of the time that it tells windows to move the cursor 1 pixel | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:54 jimminy_kriket wrote: I'm curious as to whether any legitimately good players use 3200 DPI and above. I've tried and its completely rediculous. Ive never seen anybody legitimately use over 2k, out of all the people ive asked etc, nobody actuly used that without having positive and/or negative acceleration on, or messing up scales, using for example 3200dpi, but 3/11 in windows, which will ignore 75% of your mouse movement | ||
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HammerStarcraft
Canada37 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
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boomudead1
United States186 Posts
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Pisko.
United States214 Posts
On September 29 2012 09:36 boomudead1 wrote: 3500 dpi. 1000hz. enhance pointer precision on. fast but once u get used to it. u barely need to move ur mouse. doesnt hurt ur risk. and move mouse further w/o moving ur risk a lot. for micro. u will get used to it. You're just asking to get RSI. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
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YouthSC
United Kingdom355 Posts
To be honest, some pixel skipping in sc2 (if it does occur at 71%), is NOT a problem at all. I have never noticed pixel skipping or lack of mouse control whatsoever. | ||
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sour_eraser
Canada932 Posts
 I just play at default at 450 dpi with my Abyssus and have no problem. o_O | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On September 29 2012 11:46 YouthSC wrote: I've always used 3500DPI (maximum dpi in the Razer Abyssus), and 71% sensitivity in sc2, and 6/11 in windows. To be honest, some pixel skipping in sc2 (if it does occur at 71%), is NOT a problem at all. I have never noticed pixel skipping or lack of mouse control whatsoever. Well then your 71% sens in sc2 is taking you to about 7k effective DPI. Your sensitivity is far far too high (by a factor of at least 3-5) for you to be able to have the accuracy in the first place that you say you are not noticing losing. | ||
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1a2a3a[MB]
United States297 Posts
good buy for the price | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
For fps I use between 1200 and 2000 depending on the game. Even 2000 feels slow for me in starcraft 2 sometimes, but I'm not going to go higher: I'm comfortable microing at 2000, but I'm not sure it would be as easy at say 2500 or 3000. | ||
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Frumpysnoo
United States247 Posts
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boomudead1
United States186 Posts
whats RSI okay i know what it is now. but it feels really comfortable for me. the cursor is about 4.5milimerters from left to right and 3.5ish mm top to bottom. feels just right. i dont get it. i dont have to move my wrist at all. barely. EDIT. i heard with high sensitive mouse lower bloodflows and all that since u barely move ur wrist but whats the different with moving my wrist another milimeter? im so used to this setting. i have it at 100% in sc2 and window and can perfectly select little units all minimap clicking and all that. im so used to it. will it give me RSI? can someone conform this plz | ||
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Random_Guy09
Canada1010 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:04 Cyro wrote: Ive never seen anybody legitimately use over 2k, out of all the people ive asked etc, nobody actuly used that without having positive and/or negative acceleration on, or messing up scales, using for example 3200dpi, but 3/11 in windows, which will ignore 75% of your mouse movement I'm using 3200dpi on my sensei with 6/11 windows and 51% in SC2 :S by no means am I a high level player but it feels completely fine to play.(very few mistakes with mouse accuracy) Pretty much use the same settings for CS and Dota 2 (with default settings in game for both) So its possible just depends on what people are used to. Cant imagine going back to such low dpi that I used to play with years ago O.o | ||
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Kontys
Finland659 Posts
On September 29 2012 13:51 Random_Guy09 wrote: I'm using 3200dpi on my sensei with 6/11 windows and 51% in SC2 :S by no means am I a high level player but it feels completely fine to play.(very few mistakes with mouse accuracy) Pretty much use the same settings for CS and Dota 2 (with default settings in game for both) So its possible just depends on what people are used to. Cant imagine going back to such low dpi that I used to play with years ago O.o Higher dpi gets you nothing, but lower dpi will help your accuracy. You can click on individual scvs or zerglings with ease at great speeds (5 to 10 individual units in a second without mis clicks for example, no boxing) at 3200dpi? You can not do that. Having been a long time user of higher dpi settings, my very clear recommendation is that <2000 dpi is just way better. Much more comfortable for gameplay, and increased accuracy. What exactly you should go for, of course, depends on your mouse and mouse pad. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
To OP, also keep in mind that the relative sensitivity to a DPI setting depends of your resolution, IE my 800 DPI are for 1920x1080, if yours is lower, you need to lower the DPI to get the same (as it's inches per pixels, less pixels = less distance to cross the whole screen) | ||
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RagingKiwi92
Netherlands50 Posts
Using the Abyssus, same dpi and hz, and actually its true what the initial guy says, you can do everything with your wrist and you barely need to move your arm. Maybe it suits people better with higher APM(?)(my apm is 220-240, masters zerg) because they move faster with both keyboard and mouse. Whenever I go back to a "normal" mouse setting at school or something, it feels like it takes far too much effort to move the cursor, espescially when using it for a longer period of time. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On September 29 2012 19:19 RagingKiwi92 wrote: Using the Abyssus, same dpi and hz, and actually its true what the initial guy says, you can do everything with your wrist and you barely need to move your arm. Maybe it suits people better with higher APM(?)(my apm is 220-240, masters zerg) because they move faster with both keyboard and mouse. Whenever I go back to a "normal" mouse setting at school or something, it feels like it takes far too much effort to move the cursor, espescially when using it for a longer period of time. "high dpi moves faster" is a stupid excuse, if you are using the right kinds of grips, you can actuly make accurate cross-screen movements with far lower dpi's faster or at least matching the speed of higher ones (at the same accuracy) The higher you go in terms of DPI, the more you are trading away accuracy though, you might not notice it in sc2, but in other games it is extremely obvious, and coming back from a competitive FPS or playing a bunch (6+ hours) of Osu or something, you will really see the uncomparable difference. Ive used 3200dpi for hundreds of hours, ~360-540 for hundreds also, and i would never go back above 1k in my life. You will also notice down at the low dpi settings like 450, if you play for 15 hours behind your shoulder will ache badly, but if you are at 800-1k+, you cant even make half those playing times because your wrist locks up and doesnt function, as well as causes a great amount of pain. But most people dont ladder or chain games of any mouse-intensive type for more than a couple hours, so its not really noticed. ^In my experience | ||
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Yello
Germany7411 Posts
On September 29 2012 19:49 Cyro wrote: "high dpi moves faster" is a stupid excuse, if you are using the right kinds of grips, you can actuly make accurate cross-screen movements with far lower dpi's faster or at least matching the speed of higher ones (at the same accuracy) The higher you go in terms of DPI, the more you are trading away accuracy though, you might not notice it in sc2, but in other games it is extremely obvious, and coming back from a competitive FPS or playing a bunch (6+ hours) of Osu or something, you will really see the uncomparable difference. Ive used 3200dpi for hundreds of hours, ~360-540 for hundreds also, and i would never go back above 1k in my life. You will also notice down at the low dpi settings like 450, if you play for 15 hours behind your shoulder will ache badly, but if you are at 800-1k+, you cant even make half those playing times because your wrist locks up and doesnt function, as well as causes a great amount of pain. But most people dont ladder or chain games of any mouse-intensive type for more than a couple hours, so its not really noticed. ^In my experience I played SC2 with a dpi of 800, 1600 and 3500. I am using Palm Grip (I think the grip plays a big role in this as well since you usually use a lower dpi with claw grip) and I am most comfortable with 3500 for now. I don't think there is a 'best setting' for everyone, it's mostly up to personal preference. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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shadowy
Bulgaria305 Posts
It's important to figure out what is best for you. Although, it would be good if you don't mess with Windows mouse settings (the infamous 6/11) to avoid issues like pixel skipping. Don't be afraid to mess around though and figure it out for yourself. Personally I prefer fast mouse with very little movement with the wrist. so my settings are: 2200 DPI on Razer DeathAdder Black 3.5G; 6/11 on win, all accelerations zeroed. SC2 client - well, I have no idea - guess everything is by default. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
3500 dpi 5.5 sensitivity on the razer driver program 6/11 in windows all precision enhancement: off | ||
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QuackPocketDuck
410 Posts
all enhancements off 6/11 in windows then 51% sc2 in game sensitivity sc2 smooth mouse? (forgot what its actually called its under sc2 options somewhere I have it ticked) 800dpi for shooters and 1600dpi for starcraft 2 / dota As long as there is absolutely zero acceleration I can probably get used to any sensitivity. | ||
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Syngelic
United States78 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
to the OP, you should at least take a look at the acceleration, CPI (the entire section is important), and windows sensitivity settings sections, that should give you a good idea on what settings do what, and how you should go about setting up your own properly. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On September 29 2012 22:39 wo1fwood wrote: I will continue to link this article in mouse threads until the day that the majority of gamers understand these technologies/considerations: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333648 I was literally just about to bitch out the OP for being a lazy jerk, but it looks like you beat me to it. Damn.  Seriously people, go read wo1fwood's guide and stop making stupid one question threads. | ||
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Faith.980
Canada1 Post
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
windows 6/11, dpi 800, sc2 sensitivity ON at 51% (there's a slight chance if you have it off that it could lag if windows lags, or something...i read something about it in a guide..), enhance precision off. | ||
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Anziel
Canada4 Posts
Edit: tryed it a few games, didn't like it, 800 DPI was way too slow for me, i had trouble boxing a pack of speedlings on Creep. good tips tho, made me find that i was on 1800 instead of 1600, good call | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Edit: tryed it a few games, didn't like it Not good enough. Get up, new day, set to 600dpi, play for 5-10 games then put it to 800. I adjusted from 3500 to 450 in a couple of days and never went back, aside from some nudges up towards 800 because it's easier to control the sc2 camera with middle mouse drag scroll at higher dpi's. 450 on 1920x1080 is probably too low for most people, but 800 is not - seriously. It's just a case of adjustment. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On April 19 2013 10:25 Cyro wrote: Not good enough. Get up, new day, set to 600dpi, play for 5-10 games then put it to 800. I adjusted from 3500 to 450 in a couple of days and never went back, aside from some nudges up towards 800 because it's easier to control the sc2 camera with middle mouse drag scroll at higher dpi's. 450 on 1920x1080 is probably too low for most people, but 800 is not - seriously. It's just a case of adjustment. added for emphasis, but yea, you really need to spend more than a couple of minutes or hours trying to get used to a new cpi setting. When I went from a mid sens player to a low-ultra low sens player it took me probably 2 months to fully adjust, but I will never go back now. Heck, I just got my g100s and have been using 750 cpi instead of 800 (native step), and it took me 3-4 days just to adjust to that small change, but I'm feeling I have much more control again. You really need to spend a lot more time trying things in order to find your best sensitivity, 2-3 day's isn't enough. A week to try smaller things out. A month for a new mouse, and at least two for both of these things combined. This is also why most pro's won't continually switch mice and stick with theirs, even if it performs suboptimally, because they often don't have the time they would need to re-adjust. | ||
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vaL4r
Germany240 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [My non scientific opinion on sensitiv…] + Very high "sensitivity" is bad and unhealthy. When I think of low sensitivity I think of 400-600 dpi, 800-1000 medium and 1600 high.Unless your screen resolution is very different from the common 1600x900/1920x1080 I advise everyone to stay within the 500-1000 dpi range. Even with legitimately horrible mouse settings one can still play starcraftII at a high level. Ughm.. ughm and disable enhanced pointer precision!! | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On April 19 2013 09:33 Anziel wrote: i'll try that a few games, see if it's better than my old 1600 dpi Edit: tryed it a few games, didn't like it, 800 DPI was way too slow for me, i had trouble boxing a pack of speedlings on Creep. good tips tho, made me find that i was on 1800 instead of 1600, good call Umm ya it didn't take me a few games; it took more like 4 days of lots of playing to get used to it | ||
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ZeroReverse
Bulgaria108 Posts
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
This way I wouldn't have to be accustomed to two different mouse sensitivities. And since my resolution ingame is lower than in windows, it shouldn't affect accuracy. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
And since my resolution ingame is lower than in windows, it shouldn't affect accuracy. Changing DPI to have the same distance to cross screen wouldn't affect accuracy. Using a multiplier that makes it impossible to select certain pixels would (sc2 sens or windows out of 6/11) | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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IndyStarCraft
Poland2506 Posts
51% in SC2 1499 dpi on my mouse (sensei) 1000hz 1920x1080 | ||
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Mackem
United Kingdom470 Posts
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eBinTestO
Finland104 Posts
6/11 in windows acceleration off, SC sens 51-54% cant remember what but it's 1:1 1000hz 1920x1080 Using the Abyssus with some kind of fingertip grip :D I have fairly big hands but it feels nice | ||
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[GS]PLACiD
Belgium33 Posts
360 dpi 6/11 windows (accel off) SC sens 82% 1000hz 1440x900 SteelSeries Sensei[RAW] | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
SC sens 82% This is like using something like 800dpi.. (at 1440x900.. so that's like equivelant to 1k dpi at 1920x1080.. which is completely normal middle of the line sensitivity) you are doubling your mouse speed in sc2 menu. Just put it to 51-54% and raise your DPI | ||
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[GS]PLACiD
Belgium33 Posts
On April 21 2013 07:09 Cyro wrote: This is like using something like 800dpi.. (at 1440x900.. so that's like equivelant to 1k dpi at 1920x1080.. which is completely normal middle of the line sensitivity) you are doubling your mouse speed in sc2 menu. Just put it to 51-54% and raise your DPI You don't get it, it's about feeling, higher dpi values feel awkward to me whereas with lower dpi values I can play at ease without frowning upon my mouse because it feels weird using higher dpi values, so thanks for your advice but no thanks. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
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[GS]PLACiD
Belgium33 Posts
On April 21 2013 08:12 Cyro wrote: You're multiplying your 450dpi to around 800 if you use >54% in sc2 sens.. The feeling will be exactly the same if you play with that sens properly, instead of using bad multipliers (same mouse movement to cross screen), only you don't have messy mouse sens because of upscaling First of all I'm using 360, which makes me wonder if you've even read my comment properly. And no, the feeling won't be exactly the same, I know this as a fact since I've already tried this in numerous ways with various dpi values and various mice, the feeling is definitely different when you use higher dpi values and it's annoying. Btw, you can claim I have a messy mouse sens because of upscaling, but at least I won't get annoyed at the feeling of the sensitivity, + it works for me, so whether it's "messy" or not is irrelevant. | ||
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mk.ultra
United States54 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:49 Nimix wrote: As said above, 6/11 windows sens is default and will prevent pixel jumping, then remove sc2 sens. A lot of players use between 800 and 1200 DPI, 1200 DPI being already quite high. Demuslim said on his stream he uses 1070, I use 800. It's a matter of preference anyway, but around those numbers you have a good speed/precision compromise. I don't know how people can play at 3200 DPI as I saw in other threads x_x I actually was using 3200 DPI for awhile, but it was with a palm grip mouse that was hard to move. I've since switched to a smaller, fingertip grip mouse and 1800 DPI; it's much, much better :D | ||
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Typhoon1789
Australia292 Posts
I really should try and heighten it little because i feel my mouse speed is a wee bit slow when doing lategame multitask. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On April 21 2013 08:24 [GS]PLACiD wrote: First of all I'm using 360, which makes me wonder if you've even read my comment properly. And no, the feeling won't be exactly the same, I know this as a fact since I've already tried this in numerous ways with various dpi values and various mice, the feeling is definitely different when you use higher dpi values and it's annoying. Btw, you can claim I have a messy mouse sens because of upscaling, but at least I won't get annoyed at the feeling of the sensitivity, + it works for me, so whether it's "messy" or not is irrelevant. I got it wrong by 1 step because i didn't go back and check the comment again, because i knew what you said. Why are you using ~80% sens in starcraft 2? It's a DPI multiplier you shouldn't be using, if you want X sens, then set X sens, not Z*Y for the same sens as X but in a messed up way And to the guy saying 1600 feels too slow for some tasks - get used to it, play some fast maps on Osu, maybe even lower it - try to establish muscle memory, perfect mechanics and micro i can't see more than ~1k or so used - more DPI is a handicap on accuracy but 800 won't limit what you can do - I am only using more than 360/450 now because that's low enough to negatively affect performance trying to push >250apm, if you're having trouble with 1600, you just need to get used to it, lower, or establish better muscle memory | ||
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Silencioseu
Cyprus493 Posts
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[GS]PLACiD
Belgium33 Posts
On April 21 2013 17:01 Cyro wrote: I got it wrong by 1 step because i didn't go back and check the comment again, because i knew what you said. Why are you using ~80% sens in starcraft 2? It's a DPI multiplier you shouldn't be using, if you want X sens, then set X sens, not Z*Y for the same sens as X but in a messed up way And to the guy saying 1600 feels too slow for some tasks - get used to it, play some fast maps on Osu, maybe even lower it - try to establish muscle memory, perfect mechanics and micro i can't see more than ~1k or so used - more DPI is a handicap on accuracy but 800 won't limit what you can do - I am only using more than 360/450 now because that's low enough to negatively affect performance trying to push >250apm, if you're having trouble with 1600, you just need to get used to it, lower, or establish better muscle memory Clearly there's no point in arguing with you, seeing you just disregard what I said about higher dpi values. You can be geeky all you want with your X's & Z's & Y's, it doesn't matter when it doesn't feel comfy. The only mouse (and I'm skinned atm so I won't be getting it for another few months) that I might consider playing at 1150 dpi with is the Zowie EC, I've had one before and it's one of the very few mice that somehow doesn't annoy me when I use higher dpi values but with the sensei raw it's a pain. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I am not arguing against your sensitivity, but you are achieving the sensitivity (pixels crossed per inch of mouse moved, distance of mouse movement to cross screen) in the wrong way. I don't think i am disregarding anything, you just cant understand what i am saying | ||
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[GS]PLACiD
Belgium33 Posts
On April 21 2013 17:55 Cyro wrote: I don't understand your argument - you said you are using 82% sens in SC2 right? That means your DPI is being multiplied by around 2.0. Your 350 "dpi" will actually move 600+ "dots per inch" because it's being multiplied, so you have the same sensitivity as setting that DPI directly, instead of interpolating it with bad settings from a lower sensor resolution I am not arguing against your sensitivity, but you are achieving the sensitivity (pixels crossed per inch of mouse moved, distance of mouse movement to cross screen) in the wrong way. I don't think i am disregarding anything, you just cant understand what i am saying As a matter of fact I can, you just don't seem to understand that whatever it is, there's a different feeling to it. Which has been my point from the beginning. Sure, it's being multiplied in-game, but it still really does feel different when I actually do put it on 810 dpi. It might be placebo, and even if it truly is nothing but a placebo, it's definitely an annoying one. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
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vaL4r
Germany240 Posts
So even though I would also suggest you tryout the setting that gives you the desired "sensitivity" without the need for a weird (and potentially bad) multiplier, experience tends to outweigh changing settings all the time and perhaps your mouse sensor really does perform better at the dpi value you are currently using. If that outweighs having to multiply the mouse input is another question.. but do as you please, great mouse control is after all not a requirement for playing high level starcraft (at least I don't think so). [edit]: oh and if you do change your settings you really have to just stick with them for a while, if the new setting is different that means you should be expecting to perform worse at first until you adjust to it, even if the new setting itself is superior. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I think DPI should be used as the measure of sensitivity - like if you move the mouse 1 inch and it moves 1000 pixels, then you have 1000 true DPI - not just what it says in the driver or on the mouse, because that's the only really universal way to compare. 1000 true dpi is always 1000 pixels moved for 1 inch of movement | ||
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vaL4r
Germany240 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8647 Posts
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On April 21 2013 20:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: EPP uses different scaling multipliers and is directly proportional to how fast you are using your mouse. Read this for more: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333648#i-iiiis enhance pointer precision actually that bad? ive never used a mouse without it, and after trying it a bit, my mouse suddenly felt so slow that i had to up the dpi to 2400 for it to feel "ok". unfortunately my mouse dpi can only be adjusted in 600 intervals so it was either 1800 or 2400 and 1800 was too slow. what exactly are the downsides of pointer precision? btw, with pointer precision i use 1200 dpi And, no EPP is not the bane of all existence. It is a preference, but you have to understand that using acceleration is going to make your learning curve for your mouse sensitivity, whether it be what you have now or when you switch mice or settings, much longer and more difficult to adjust to. You should try not using EPP for a while (as in a week at the very least) because with acceleration disabled it is much easier to predict how your mouse is going to operate (as its always the same). The only gamers that I know of that like using acceleration (occasionally) are Quake players, but they are a somewhat rare breed and have more options open to them anyway (like in game settings). Edit: The caveat with acceleration in planar environments is that you can cause pixel skipping if you can hit those ips, and pixel skipping in these environments can be a real issue, unlike fps games that operate entirely differently. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On April 21 2013 20:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: is enhance pointer precision actually that bad? ive never used a mouse without it, and after trying it a bit, my mouse suddenly felt so slow that i had to up the dpi to 2400 for it to feel "ok". unfortunately my mouse dpi can only be adjusted in 600 intervals so it was either 1800 or 2400 and 1800 was too slow. what exactly are the downsides of pointer precision? btw, with pointer precision i use 1200 dpi I had the same experience at first. I used Logitech's acceleration on "Low" since MS DOS 5.0 on a three button ball mouse and changed after ten years of playing Doom and Quake. The downsides only cropped up playing stuff semi-pro in online leagues and on LAN tournaments where you can't simply say you don't want to play on a day where your mouse aim is off. That's where mouse acceleration was bad for me. Sometimes I had a day where my hand was slow, I couldn't do anything about it, and acceleration means your mouse sensitivity is tied to your hand speed. On other days, I felt I was particularly on the ball and my hand was faster than normal, again giving problems. Trying to play with no acceleration was a serious headache, I think it took months until I felt confident in my mouse aim, but it really helped with those days where you can't hit shit. If you don't feel you have that problem, then don't change. There were always people playing with acceleration that were playing beautiful at all times, never having problems like me. Note: I don't actually know how Microsoft's enhanced pointer precision compares to Logitech's mouse acceleration options. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
You can get used to both, and really having it off is far superior option | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8647 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
So you're talking about handicapping yourself, because you don't want to learn otherwise. I don't really like doing that, i used EPP and 3200dpi a few years ago.. Then turned EPP off, then went 3200dpi to 450dpi over a week or so. Never did anything better for mouse accuracy and skill, it's amazing the kind of returns it gives you, makes you better in ways you would never have thought you were missing.. 450 is a touch low though | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 21 2013 18:25 [GS]PLACiD wrote: As a matter of fact I can, you just don't seem to understand that whatever it is, there's a different feeling to it. Which has been my point from the beginning. Sure, it's being multiplied in-game, but it still really does feel different when I actually do put it on 810 dpi. It might be placebo, and even if it truly is nothing but a placebo, it's definitely an annoying one. Sounds like a placebo. You’re using a Sensei which has an Avago 9XXX sensor. This sensor has lots of native steps which are a multiple of 90. Both, 360 and 900 are a multiple of 90 and therefore should feel the same. 82 % in SC 2 equals a multiplication factor of 2.5 which results in pixel skipping and inconsistencies. It doesn’t get worse. ^^ | ||
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ChapOne
Germany68 Posts
feels perfect for me. | ||
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FinBenton
Finland870 Posts
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Ponchmeister
United States73 Posts
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Keeemy
Finland7855 Posts
Works like a charm. Used to have a bit over 2000 DPI, but I wanted to get better accuracy so I forced myself to get used to lower sens. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On April 22 2013 00:02 blueslobster wrote: No he's right, that particular sensitivity will have a different feeling in that the granularity of it ends up making the overall experience different, though I would agree with you both that using a setting where you are always pixel skipping and on an inconsistent step is pretty sub-optimal to begin with.Sounds like a placebo. You’re using a Sensei which has an Avago 9XXX sensor. This sensor has lots of native steps which are a multiple of 90. Both, 360 and 900 are a multiple of 90 and therefore should feel the same. 82 % in SC 2 equals a multiplication factor of 2.5 which results in pixel skipping and inconsistencies. It doesn’t get worse. ^^ @ [GS]PLACiD, there are more considerate ways of getting your point across, so try to be less aggressive on TL if you can. On April 21 2013 22:51 evilfatsh1t wrote: Dota is an RTS just as starcraft is, so movement is still registered on a flat plane. e.g. the same principles apply. This would be the same for C&C, or LoL, or CoH, or whatever top down and planar environment you are interacting with. FPS and view matrices are the only place where there are major differences and allowances for more flexibility.ok well ive had a read around other places regarding this and the general consensus is for games like starcraft turning epp off is a must. what are your thoughts on games like dota however? some people seem to think that for dota it isnt as important because you require less precision in comparison to starcraft. | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 22 2013 08:13 wo1fwood wrote: … that particular sensitivity will have a different feeling in that the granularity of it ends up making the overall experience different … I cannot fathom that someone chooses inconsistent skipping because he cannot cope with a different granularity. So please, [GS]PLACiD, tell me it indeed was a placebo effect. By the way: Have you tried out 810 CPI? | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
ie. I use 'enhance pointer precision' for my RTS mouse as it feels better to me. For my FPS mouse I turn it off, as again, it feels better for that mouse. Find your own optimal settings. | ||
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guldurkhand
Netherlands71 Posts
I got ingame sensitivity on 51%; dpi on 400; windows acceleration off; 1920x1200 resolution; qck heavy mousepad; windows sensitivity 6/11; polling rate 1000 hz; The problem with high sensitivity is the precision(I used to play at 1800 dpi, I was pretty dang accurate at that dpi rate, but I found that after a time with 400 dpi, I got a huge precision increase and I got better in starcraft generaly(micro and macro wise(less mistakes))) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On April 22 2013 18:28 Parcelleus wrote: Just play with mouse settings till you find what you like. Other folks are not playing the game for you, so pick settings that YOU are comfortable with. ie. I use 'enhance pointer precision' for my RTS mouse as it feels better to me. For my FPS mouse I turn it off, as again, it feels better for that mouse. Find your own optimal settings. Wanna have an Osu competition? =P You can use whatever comfortable settings you like (: The point is, if you don't particularly care about skill at using a mouse, it's not really important, you do not even need to be at all good at using a mouse to be one of the best starcraft players in the world, but if you are, and especially if you compare in other methods - stuff like clicking zerglings running on creep, stutter stepping and attacking individual low hp mutas to pick them off with stalkers while strafing with phoenix (so you have to rapidly cycle between three mouse tasks) or even just flat out go to another game, a FPS or something incredibly stressful on mouse skills like Osu, it's clear there are "best" settings. Maybe not anything in particular, but you can say for example 5000dpi on 1920x1080 is for practical purposes always a really really terrible idea - and that lower sens translates into higher accuracy most of the time, often vastly higher, and also that muscle memory establishable from using a low-mid sens can give you skills and consistency that are borderline impossible to achieve with negative and positive acceleration, you have one variable, moving mouse 1 inch will always move the same amount of pixels, compared to enhanced pointer precision where it could move only like 1 pixel if you do it veeeeeeeryy slooooooooowly, or cross your entire screen in under 1cm if you make a lightning fast snap - In theory, negative and positive acceleration are very useful, but in practical use it's much harder to reach the same level of skill with them vs without | ||
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50bani
Romania480 Posts
Nice to see the way people talk about mouse settings, and why they don't help any beginners at all. I don't play SC at the moment, nor do I intend to even by HOTS any time soon, but when I did play, I used: 3cm from top to bottom, scrolling with cursor on the edges which means I set my mouse so that 3 centimeters of mouse movement gets my cursor from the top to the bottom of the screen then, more towards the end I tried: 5cm from top to bottom and scrolling with holding the scroll wheel button good FF for Protoss, good for clicking idividual units... | ||
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Onioncookie
Germany624 Posts
I use 3200 @ 6/10 and mouse sensitivity off in starcraft... I used to have even higher dpi I tried using lower dpi ... but then I have to move my hand?! And I do feel very precise with such high dpi.... I think you guys are overestimating the precision u need in starcraft ... i mean the hitboxes of units are pretty large and hard to miss even zerglings , or is it just me? I kinda feel like a weirdo now hahaha , how much mouse croll do you use in SCII? Got 70% In FPS , totaly yes i use waaay lower sens in them. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Actually, it seems a general theme that zerg players have bad mouse settings - It does not really matter for the race and you can have wildly high sens if you want. You can inject a base by boxing the entire screen, hitting V and clicking the hatchery (queen gets priority) worker stacking is less important, general unit micro is less important because you don't have to worry about blink, landing good and consistent forcefields without overlap or gaps etc - it's just more critically important for Protoss to have better mouse control than Zerg - I find terrans often somewhere in the middle - they have to split, but you don't need particularly amazing mouse control for that - just skill at splitting, you can do it at higher DPI you just have finer control at lower levels I tried using lower dpi ... but then I have to move my hand?! Breaking news, water is wet Actually, after playing Tribes with 35cm/180 sens, 800dpi by comparison in sc2 is easy as hell. I mean you have to move like 6cm to cross the entire screen - that's hardly moving at all. I guess technically you are moving your hand, yea, but it's not really.. moving.. You move the cursor by moving the mouse with your hand, that's what a mouse does | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
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Onioncookie
Germany624 Posts
You make it sound like you cant micro with having higher sensitivity. Its not like Iam suddenly not able to click stuff just because my mouse pointer is moving so quick I cant handle it anymore (wich is not the case)... When ur having higher dpi, and ur actualy very accurate with it,arent you supposed to be way faster then someone using lower dpi , since the distance ur moving is way smaller and ur still achieving the same thing? Starcraft doesnt need 1 pixel accuracy, hit boxes are huge and you have to be fast and precise. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On April 22 2013 18:56 Cyro wrote: Wanna have an Osu competition? =P You can use whatever comfortable settings you like (: The point is, if you don't particularly care about skill at using a mouse, it's not really important, you do not even need to be at all good at using a mouse to be one of the best starcraft players in the world, but if you are, and especially if you compare in other methods - stuff like clicking zerglings running on creep, stutter stepping and attacking individual low hp mutas to pick them off with stalkers while strafing with phoenix (so you have to rapidly cycle between three mouse tasks) or even just flat out go to another game, a FPS or something incredibly stressful on mouse skills like Osu, it's clear there are "best" settings. Maybe not anything in particular, but you can say for example 5000dpi on 1920x1080 is for practical purposes always a really really terrible idea - and that lower sens translates into higher accuracy most of the time, often vastly higher, and also that muscle memory establishable from using a low-mid sens can give you skills and consistency that are borderline impossible to achieve with negative and positive acceleration, you have one variable, moving mouse 1 inch will always move the same amount of pixels, compared to enhanced pointer precision where it could move only like 1 pixel if you do it veeeeeeeryy slooooooooowly, or cross your entire screen in under 1cm if you make a lightning fast snap - In theory, negative and positive acceleration are very useful, but in practical use it's much harder to reach the same level of skill with them vs without Why do you think Korean gamers like small mouse ? comfort. why ? .. cos the more comfortable the better you control. As for software, it is well known to most of us, that using at least 500hz polling rate on your USB really helps. As for dpi and windows mouse settings, experiment, everyone is different (hence why every pro has their own settings). There is no 'best settings' it is subjective. | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On April 22 2013 21:00 Parcelleus wrote: Why do you think Korean gamers like small mouse ? comfort. why ? .. cos the more comfortable the better you control. As for software, it is well known to most of us, that using at least 500hz polling rate on your USB really helps. As for dpi and windows mouse settings, experiment, everyone is different (hence why every pro has their own settings). There is no 'best settings' it is subjective. Actually there are "best settings" for windows mouse settings. Anything other than 6/11 is broken (4/11 and 2/11 aren't too bad). DPI is subjective, but different mice have different settings the sensor works well at, see the DA which performs great at 1800dpi, but poorly on any other step. If you have no idea what you're talking about don't bother posting, it is a fact that windows mouse "settings" are a complete joke. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On April 22 2013 21:16 Rollin wrote: Actually there are "best settings" for windows mouse settings. Anything other than 6/11 is broken (4/11 and 2/11 aren't too bad). DPI is subjective, but different mice have different settings the sensor works well at, see the DA which performs great at 1800dpi, but poorly on any other step. If you have no idea what you're talking about don't bother posting, it is a fact that windows mouse "settings" are a complete joke. Then why do some gamers prefer not using 6/11 ? You even admit that 4/11 and 2/11 'aren't too bad'. Sure, most gamers will like 6/11, but not all. ie. experiment for yourself (as I said earlier). I found my optimal settings to be 9/11 (2560x1600 res). If I were to use 'your best settings' , I would find it inferior. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
The sensitivity scale in windows (1-11) does completely different things with and without enhanced pointer precision though, so different rules if EPP is on. Your a bit harsh dude ... You make it sound like you cant micro with having higher sensitivity. DPI is subjective - to some extent; After which is becomes a handicap, using too much or too little, I think ~360-2400 for sc2 on 1920x1080, but both sides are extreme, you can cut half off each side and say 720-1200 which is more of a real and effective range, that is down to opinion though. People skilled with mice overwhelmingly use mid/low level sensitivities, compared to average gamers, though. When ur having higher dpi, and ur actualy very accurate with it,arent you supposed to be way faster then someone using lower dpi , since the distance ur moving is way smaller and ur still achieving the same thing? Actually not really as long as DPI is sane, moving 10cm with an accuracy of 90% does not really take longer than moving 5cm with an accuracy of 95%, infact arguably it is faster with lower DPI because you have to tightly adjust the mouse the more you increase sens, and you can never instantly snap to where you want the mouse perfectly - say 2000dpi if you missed your target by moving the mouse 0.1cm too far - at 500dpi you can move the mouse 0.3cm too far and still have far better accuracy, on screen - because 0.1cm on 4x the sens is like 0.4cm on lower sensitivities This is hard to convey into words, but the higher you go in sensitivity, the smaller your error margins are, the more a 1mm slip or over/undershoot will destroy your accuracy - if you move 50mm, moving 1mm too far will put you at 98% accuracy. if you move 500mm, moving 1mm too far will put you at 99.8% accuracy - maybe that's better put into words. But that is only one of many reasons for using a lower, but sane, sensitivity | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On April 22 2013 21:45 Cyro wrote: Using 9/11 for 2.5x multiplier on mouse sens is pretty silly, why not just raise DPI by 2.5x? You'd cross the screen in the same distance, but instead of being able to select two pixels for every 5 on your screen (and being unable to select the remaining 3) you can select all five because of the increased sensor resolution - instead of interpolating from a low resolution/dpi and suffering due to it. Yep its always better to increase mouse dpi before using windows sensitivity to increase sensitivity. I use a 800 dpi mouse hence moving to windows sensitivity. No complaints here. | ||
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
On April 22 2013 22:23 Parcelleus wrote: Yep its always better to increase mouse dpi before using windows sensitivity to increase sensitivity. I use a 800 dpi mouse hence moving to windows sensitivity. No complaints here. If you obtained a mouse with a higher base dpi and turned off pixel skipping you'd eat your own words. That's not to say if you have a bad mouse you should set it to 6/11 and live with it, but if you wanted a high sensitivity why get a mouse that doesn't allow it? And 4/11 or 2/11 are "not too bad" because windows discards some movements to approximate a lower dpi. 4/11 is slightly inferior to 6/11, and 2/11 is slightly inferior to 4/11, but they're actually implemented in an acceptable way. Any other setting is terrible compared to directly using cpi = dpi because of the way windows handles scaling. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On April 22 2013 21:25 Parcelleus wrote: Pro gamers are a very poor litmus test when talking about their technological understanding of mice. The only pro gamer that I know off the top of my head who does know about mouse settings well enough is TT1, but largely the pro gamer population is very unaware of the minute considerations in setting things up without issues. They do however (because of this), continually prove that player skill is a much bigger factor than an ideal tracking environment in being good at something.Then why do some gamers prefer not using 6/11 ? You even admit that 4/11 and 2/11 'aren't too bad'. Sure, most gamers will like 6/11, but not all. ie. experiment for yourself (as I said earlier). I found my optimal settings to be 9/11 (2560x1600 res). If I were to use 'your best settings' , I would find it inferior. The other problem here is that you are saying that your setup using 9/11 is optimal. Yea its the setting you prefer, and it gets you the appropriate speed you want, but it's very far from optimal from a technological standpoint. You'd probably find a non-pixel skipping step to be better if you had the cpi in your mouse to do that. On April 22 2013 23:37 Rollin wrote: I would assume he owns a some older mouse where these settings are less flexible and he has less options open to him. Its not ideal but its what some people are forced to work with.If you obtained a mouse with a higher base dpi and turned off pixel skipping you'd eat your own words. That's not to say if you have a bad mouse you should set it to 6/11 and live with it, but if you wanted a high sensitivity why get a mouse that doesn't allow it? And 4/11 or 2/11 are "not too bad" because windows discards some movements to approximate a lower dpi. 4/11 is slightly inferior to 6/11, and 2/11 is slightly inferior to 4/11, but they're actually implemented in an acceptable way. Any other setting is terrible compared to directly using cpi = dpi because of the way windows handles scaling. On April 22 2013 21:45 Cyro wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333648This is hard to convey into words, but the higher you go in sensitivity, the smaller your error margins are, the more a 1mm slip or over/undershoot will destroy your accuracy - if you move 50mm, moving 1mm too far will put you at 98% accuracy. Section V, subsection II (end of this section) and III covers this pretty well (e.g. the talk about minimum control areas). | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
With 8/11, you can't select half of them. With 9/11, you can't select 60% of them. You can also see this when you for example drag a window on the desktop - you can't move them to many rows/columns of pixels, you can only move steps of 2 or 3 pixels (2 for 8/11, alternating 2 and 3 pixels for the same movement for 9/11) and it prevents you from dragging a window less than 2-3 pixels - on a desktop i was using with a 400dpi mouse and literally no room to move it that drove me CRAZY, i couldn't line up windows on desktop, or move them so that they were border to border without a gap - something with 1:1 pixel tracking, i could do in a fraction of a second with my mouse on this system, with the 360-810dpi that people call "slow" that is actually low-med sens Ty for that link wolfwood, i read it all before but it's a good reference for what i was trying to say. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
The reason I use this mouse is due to it's shape, weight and buttons. It ticks all those boxes for me. Ive tried lots of high dpi mouse but they lacked in the other ways (shape etc). And since after setting up this mouse with 500hz and windows settings Im not missing a higher dpi sensor. My control is faster and better now than with higher dpi mouse in the past. I found the difference in tracking sensor to be minimal (after setting up the mouse), but the mouse physical properties played a much larger role for me. | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 22 2013 18:36 guldurkhand wrote: I got ingame sensitivity on 51%; dpi on 400; 1920x1200 resolution; Nice. Not many go as low as 400 CPI. I assume you use Fingertip Grip and have larger than average hands? | ||
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madestro
Costa Rica108 Posts
I do want to ask about the DPI. I have 6/11 in Windows with enhanced precision off. I also have SC2 ignore mouse settings but I can't seem to find a DPI I can use. 800 seems way to slow for my screen at 1920x1080. Am I missing something ? Is is me that just can't get used to it ? With the Sensei I would use 2500 but the G100s goes to 2000 max and max dpi setting is never good on mice, plus as I've read here it was probably that high DPI that gave me wrist pain. Should I stick to 800 ? What other settings can I try and why ? My main goal is to eliminate any wrist pain but if I can play decently enough that would be swell. I play zerg if that makes any sort of difference. Thanks all | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On April 23 2013 01:23 madestro wrote: I would suggest take a week or two at 800 to try to get used to it. If you still feel it's too slow, then adjust, but seriously, one week. minimum. Doubly so because of your physical discomfort. Also, the g100s max step is 2500 not 2000.Really nice to see this thread revived since I wanted to ask something. I am a low level player (highest being gold in WoL) and I just got myself a Logitech G100s, previously I used a Sensei Raw but the semi palm grip I used started to give me wrist pain so I decided to try my hand at a different type of mouse with a claw grip. I do want to ask about the DPI. I have 6/11 in Windows with enhanced precision off. I also have SC2 ignore mouse settings but I can't seem to find a DPI I can use. 800 seems way to slow for my screen at 1920x1080. Am I missing something ? Is is me that just can't get used to it ? With the Sensei I would use 2500 but the G100s goes to 2000 max and max dpi setting is never good on mice, plus as I've read here it was probably that high DPI that gave me wrist pain. Should I stick to 800 ? What other settings can I try and why ? My main goal is to eliminate any wrist pain but if I can play decently enough that would be swell. I play zerg if that makes any sort of difference. Thanks all | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I would suggest, if you are using 2k - you want to try 1k? Set DPI to 700 (1.3k drop) at the start of a new day, play through it for a day or two, force yourself to get used to it - and then switch to 1k halfway through the day (drop further than you plan to drop, and then fall back) If you get used to 700 even for a day or two, 1k will seem lightning fast. I used 360-540 for like two years, wanted to use 720 or 810 step - i played on 1k for two days, and i could hardly use 810 for like an hour because it felt too slow - within a day i was past 95% of the muscle memory/skill in Osu and some other tasks of 450 dpi step that i used for many months at a time unchanged. Oh, and be open for changing grip if you still can't make it work well at all after 10 mins, don't change too much all at once, but if you have not changed sens before, you will probably need a looser grip for lower sens or a tighter one for higher | ||
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guldurkhand
Netherlands71 Posts
On April 23 2013 01:19 blueslobster wrote: Nice. Not many go as low as 400 CPI. I assume you use Fingertip Grip and have larger than average hands? I use my fingertip grip yes, but my hands are quite normal actually. When I used 1800 dpi, I used only my finger tips and wrist and that worked out quite well. When I got 400 dpi, I changed from using my finger tips to using my whole arm, I never use my wrist anymore(I try to keep my wrist as straight as possible). | ||
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fengshaun
149 Posts
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madestro
Costa Rica108 Posts
On April 23 2013 01:30 wo1fwood wrote: I would suggest take a week or two at 800 to try to get used to it. If you still feel it's too slow, then adjust, but seriously, one week. minimum. Doubly so because of your physical discomfort. Also, the g100s max step is 2500 not 2000. One week ? Ok I will give it a try at 800 DPI for sure. And yes I was wrong the max on G100s is 2500 but still I need to adjust myself to low DPI to eliminate that wrist pain before RSI kicks in (I am not as young as I used to, I'm 33 now so spare parts are hard to come by for my bones). Also Cyro thanks for the response. I am switching grips as well, I am trying with claw grip for gaming and normal palm grip for regular computer usage, the form factor of the G100s is perfect for claw gripping with my hand size. | ||
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deadRa
Sweden37 Posts
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LA_Morello
Brazil143 Posts
At first I tought it were too fast, but I kept trying to adapt. Nowdays I want to buy a new mouse because I feel that 3500DDPI looks slow. haha It feels slow with 1800 DPI, and anything below this became unplayable for me. It might looks stupid, but I'm way too used to it. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:01 madestro wrote: One week ? Ok I will give it a try at 800 DPI for sure. And yes I was wrong the max on G100s is 2500 but still I need to adjust myself to low DPI to eliminate that wrist pain before RSI kicks in (I am not as young as I used to, I'm 33 now so spare parts are hard to come by for my bones). Also Cyro thanks for the response. I am switching grips as well, I am trying with claw grip for gaming and normal palm grip for regular computer usage, the form factor of the G100s is perfect for claw gripping with my hand size. Yea so this time thing is really dependent on how much you play per week and what exactly you're changing. If you play more often it will happen faster (and so to in the reverse obv), but because you've said you're trying to change grips as well, I would maybe even add time to this original estimate. Changing your grip or your mouse in general can be a pretty drastic thing depending on the change your going through (like a Deathadder to a G100s, which would be pretty big as change goes, though Abyssus to G100s would not be as much a change). Things to consider. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
i play SC2 at 51% mouse sensitivity... and 3500 dpi on my abyssus. | ||
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IceBergZ
Malaysia176 Posts
On April 23 2013 22:33 Gamegene wrote: lol i feel retarded reading this thread. i play SC2 at 51% mouse sensitivity... and 3500 dpi on my abyssus. so high, what league u in ? wanna do survey does dpi effect yr skill | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Bad mouse settings are a handicap past a certain point (or maybe pulling down your skill some if you are not set up well within the range) but they won't prevent you from getting Masters, not at all - You can do that with 100dpi or with 5-10k. The best it can do is make it MORE DIFFICULT for you to achieve a certain level - through lower skill at controlling the mouse cursor | ||
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DanLee
Canada316 Posts
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CounterOrder
Canada457 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I have to say there's a big trend towards 400-1200 range as people get better with mouse. Take THIS for example: This is 600dpi. It's not 1920x1080, it's in a window - but i play Osu at the same DPI as Starcraft 2 with osu also in a window, because it's mostly 4:3 and just requires lower DPI - So 600dpi in Osu, i'd use 600dpi in Sc2 as well, but this puts everything i can do to shame The good mouse players though, the really good ones, they use lower sens than most, 95+ times out of 100 I strive to be this good with mouse it would make you such a micro god. Same with keyboard hotkeys, camera hotkeys, just management etc. | ||
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CounterOrder
Canada457 Posts
The way i got it now i never have to lift my mouse or move my arm, stretching my fingers moves my mouse across whole screen. I couldnt have it any other way. Ive never had a problem with clicking things in SC2. I also dont have much space for my mouse, 1.5inches of space on either side of it, it never travels more than .5inch in any direction. I would go crazy with 600dpi(1000 is maddening enough), it looks like he would have to move his mouse 3inches just to cross the screen. With the lower DPI your wrist is doing alot more work also having to lift your mouse all the time will aggravate/cause tendon problems too. I only noticed this after i got tendonitis myself. Its interesting considering how many wrist injuries there are and how all the "good" mouse users do this really low sens style. After being injured myself higher sens seems far more ergonomic than having to do all these exaggerated wrist movements. Stretching your wrist to the left or right stretches your tendon. Over doing that will lead to tendonitis. Besides all that i just really cant click anything with low sens. I know thats just kuz im not used to it, but i have no reason to get used to it either. My mouse is also not even on an even surface(water dmg to desk, no mousepad) and still no problems with clicking at all on high sens. Not sure what the issue is with high sens tbh. You can talk about pixel jumping or w/e but it isnt noticable ingame unless your alrdy barely hitting your mark when u click. How much would you say comes down to hand eye co-ordination? Seems like if you got good co-ordination there isnt much reason to slow everything down so much. -Observations of a noob edit: my resolution is 1600x1200 | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I couldnt have it any other way. Ive never had a problem with clicking things in SC2 That's fine, it just makes it more difficult to have high speed and accuracy. You won't notice the difference if you do not have better mechanics than 95-99% of people anyway. My mouse is also not even on an even surface(water dmg to desk, no mousepad) and still no problems with clicking at all on high sens Well no wonder you can't tell the difference, you are comparing horse shit to horse shit =P No offense there, but if you are not trying pushing skill, it really does not matter what you are using on mouse. My advice and i am sure the advice of many others are for people trying to improve mouse accuracy/precision and multitasking/speed in sc2 or other things (if you are more accurate, you can translate that into the same accuracy in less time, which means you can chain actions faster) With the lower DPI your wrist is doing alot more work also having to lift your mouse all the time will aggravate/cause tendon problems too Debunked that a lot, it's actually the other way around. Playing 600dpi on 1920x1080, lol you don't move the wrist at all, or put any strain on the fingers. That video for example, he's supporting the mouse with the base of his palm, it's a claw grip - HE'S NOT ACTUALLY PIVOTING HIS WRIST, AT ALL. Having played dozens of hours in the last couple weeks with similar grips, if you put insane stress on your mouse movement, high accuracy and speed like osu for 2-3+ minutes without a moments break, you do really feel the stresses and fatigue, but it's many inches behind the wrist and in the upper arm and shoulder, NOT anywhere near the wrist - like it is at higher dpi's, or a mid level sens with a bad grip Hand eye coordination? No, that's not really relevant at all - if you have a good mouse sensor you can snap from the minimap to a marine halfway across the screen with your eyes closed - which is again better at lower sens because it's easier to repeat the movement within x% of what you are trying to replicate (much bigger movement) If you have muscle memory down, you rely very little on your eyes to check where the mouse cursor is on screen - because you know exactly where it is by how much you have moved it, and you know how much you have moved it by just a feeling in your head. It's actually why i (and i assume high level osu players) can play the game while staring at the wall behind the monitor - as long as you have the screen in your PERIPHERAL VISION (to correct for very small drift over dozens of movements due to not being 100% accurate) then you do not need to use your eyes, you only need them when you do not have muscle memory or you have higher sens because you have to confirm where your mouse is due to not having the ability to move it exactly where you want to with a high enough precision to rely less and less on your eyes | ||
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CounterOrder
Canada457 Posts
2) I wasnt comparing anything, i said i have no problems with clicking accuracy even on an uneven surface. Higher sens would only cause more problems with an uneven surface no? idk im the noob thats why im asking 3)Thats how i grip and why i just move my fingers to move my mouse. With lower sens i cant just use my fingers anymore, i have to make larger movements. Your correct, it isnt the wrist itself that gets injured its your tendons, as i said i currently have tendonitis thats why i know lower sens hurts more, ive tried it. More movement more pain. Theres no strain on my fingers cause my sens isnt super low, they dont have to do much they rest on my mouse and guide it more than actually grip/lift it. Muscle memory makes sense, that slipped my mind, thats why i cant click anything with low sens lol. Ive been using high sens since i was like 11 and had my 1st comp, just was easier to me. Your right, its muscle memory and not hand eye co-ordination. Im trying to limit my movement and achieve the same results, it sounds like your trying to do the opposite. Again i never had a problem with clicking or accuracy thats why i see no reason to decrease my sens. After all if it comes down to muscle memory then why even bring up sens? Just go with what your comfortable with and what works best for you? But obviously that isnt the case as people seem to have this shit down to a science. Im not arguing in anyway, im just interested/curious on the topic. | ||
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Keeemy
Finland7855 Posts
This feels so much better than 1500-2000 (for me). | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Again i never had a problem with clicking or accuracy thats why i see no reason to decrease my sens. If it's good enough, there's no point, it's like people who think a game runs ok ("i can still micro fine") not wanting to bother overclocking a CPU or upgrading hardware in certain ways for more FPS, that's super common, i am just more of a "make everything perfect" type guy, i struggle to play if the room is more than 2-3c too hot or cold or my chair is 5cm too low, being just a bit more accurate or more fast or 10% more performance is a pretty big deal to me, but most people just will not care, and i understand the lack of reasons to care, a lot, it's just not how i think/feel Edit: A little something more: Scroll up to that video i posted, try to do that map on Osu. Either you are superhuman OR you will have a problem with accuracy at that speed (: On April 24 2013 03:17 Keeemy wrote: Holy shit. I just tried how it feels to first set the DPI really low (400) and after a while change it back to 1000 DPI. Now 1000 DPI feels incredibly fast, wow. This feels so much better than 1500-2000 (for me). Thanks, further validating what i experienced (: | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On April 23 2013 23:12 IceBergZ wrote: so high, what league u in ? wanna do survey does dpi effect yr skill i'm high masters on NA. play GMs occasionally. not particularly extraordinary. i'm definitely considering changing my dpi after reading this thread but low dpi hard to believe in o: | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
This is what it looks like when you don't have muscle memory down (i missed two or three start circles and messed up several more to score 100 instead of 300's) Shocked at how not-catastrophically failed this map was.. 87% in six tries, playing without clicks though. After playing for a long time i actually feel 630dpi on 1920x1080 is really great for Osu and sc2 (osu in a 4:3 window), i actually tried to change up towards 810/900/990 steps, but after playing with the top one comfortably for a day and then 810 for a day and experimenting a lot with Osu, i feel 630 is just better than both 450 and 990, in that 450 just feels a bit low for it's increased accuracy to be better, but going above 630 step costs accuracy without really helping in that for example you can already reach everything and it does not make it much easier, and changing to this kind of grip (base of palm support, almost nothing relying on mouse fingers 1 and 2) seems best for me, complete freedom of movement while having the mouse support from the base of palm (but not too much of it) and pain/discomfort comes elsewhere, not in the wrist. The STABILITY from base of palm contact point is 10000% neccesary for Osu maps like this, i think, need to throw the weight of the mouse around so much without it turning or slipping too far or not far enough. Maybe that's partly in the deathadder 3.5g weighing a bit, being longer than some mice and having a weird center of gravity though - If i could make a CM spawn stormadder or even a couple of other mouse shells, i would not hesitate You can see though from that vid, and the reason i wanted to make it - very little wrist pivoting, actually wrist is locked or free with this kind of grip, which i am >90% sure the guy in the previous video was using. If you develop wrist problems from this kind of grip and DPI, i dunno what to say, you're doing it wrong i think, because i used from 360 to 3200dpi for an extensive period of time (100+ hours, with some for 1000+) and experienced pain from pretty much everything doing it wrong, but not even discomfort in wrist at this dpi and type of grip, because you kinda just don't use it, which is really great. Nobody ever quit sc2 because their upper arm muscles burned a bit from too much or too stressful mouse usage If anybody backing >2k DPI wants to go download this Osu map and post vids, it's over at http://osu.ppy.sh/s/41823 I am kinda legitimately curious if it can be done (pretty sure higher than med sens is kinda a big handicap here..) but either it can, and somebody posts vid and i learn from it, or it can't be done easily at all and it kinda reinforces point on low-med sens of 450-1600dpi on 1920x1080, like if anyone can do this map on 3.2k dpi i will be seriously impressed, because what would take me 3 minutes to learn on 630dpi would take me 20 to learn on 3.2k, if i could even do it | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I now consider myself as someone with a very good mouse precision (I can stutter step a reaper while target firing a hurt speedling, just to tell you the kind of shit I was striving to be able to do), and I'm often amazed at how foreigner mouses seem unaccurate... So much clicking around. Also I'm a MarineKing fanboy and MarineKing plays a G9x at 800 dpi so it was all the more worth it :p. Edit: Forgot to precise: obviously with 51% ingame, 6/11 windows and mouse precision registry edit and whatnot :D Edit2: Here's a video of me playing vs an AI: + Show Spoiler + I regularly record some "mechanics" test runs to benchmark my progress in regards to APM, mouse precision, overall "cleanliness" and all that good jazz. I don't know if that's weird or not haha :D But you can see that I don't really misclick, yet play at a decent speed (for the 1v1 platinum that I am :D) with my 1000 dpi setting. Of course it's no real game, but I don't really panic much in "urgency" situations anyway. | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:24 AnomalySC2 wrote: 800 dpi, 6/11 windows sens with acceleration turned off. I also disable mouse sensitivity within sc2. I've beaten many known GMs and regularly hang around high masters if I play. I got the idea to use these settings after researching what MVP uses. My mouse is a Kana. That's the way to do it  Apparently though, it's better to enable sc2 mouse sensitivity to 51-54% because the mouse won't lag when windows is lagging (or something like that). But really it probably doesn't matter that much either way. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:38 Thor.Rush wrote: That's the way to do it Apparently though, it's better to enable sc2 mouse sensitivity to 51-54% because the mouse won't lag when windows is lagging (or something like that). But really it probably doesn't matter that much either way. I have not noticed any lag however that doesn't mean I'm not simply just used to it. If I get in the mood for some more SC2 I'll give that a try, thanks. But yeah I can't recommend those settings enough to basically every player trying to up their game. You will become so much more confident in your micro. Hell, I used to rely purely on my macro and game knowledge to win games but now I'm not afraid to slip in some purely micro based rushes from time to time. | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 23 2013 08:12 LA_Morello wrote: 6/11 on Windows, 55% on SC2. 3500FPI/1000Hz. Don’t use 55 % in SC 2. Use 51 % instead. Or else this could happen. On April 26 2013 01:38 Thor.Rush wrote: Apparently though, it's better to enable sc2 mouse sensitivity to 51-54% because the mouse won't lag when windows is lagging (or something like that). But really it probably doesn't matter that much either way. Theoretically it’s faster, though that should not be noticeable. Additionally: If you’re playing at LANs or tournaments, controlling sensitivity with SC 2 is just more convenient. On April 26 2013 00:52 ZenithM wrote: I gradually reduced my DPI from something like 1800 down to 800, with much work. Basically decreased the dpi of my G9x 100 by 100, and playing weeks at the same setting. Nice. This is how it’s done. I assume you stopped lowering your CPI because you had reached your idols CPI? ;P On April 26 2013 00:52 ZenithM wrote: mouse precision registry edit and whatnot :D You don’t need to edit your registry, as SC 2 enables no hidden acceleration. On April 26 2013 00:52 ZenithM wrote: Edit2: Here's a video of me playing vs an AI: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL8FpMOvDlg I watched it and noticed that you’re boxing in a suboptimal way. Try boxing from top left to bottom right, this should be faster. On April 26 2013 00:52 ZenithM wrote: I regularly record some "mechanics" test runs to benchmark my progress in regards to APM, mouse precision, overall "cleanliness" and all that good jazz. I don't know if that's weird or not haha :D That’s awesome. On April 24 2013 09:33 Cyro wrote: i feel 630 is just better than both 450 and 990, in that 450 just feels a bit low for it's increased accuracy to be better, but going above 630 step costs accuracy without really helping in that for example you can already reach everything and it does not make it much easier I too feel a bit limited by 450 CPI, but with 800 CPI it’s just as you said: I already can reach everything with 600 CPI so 800 CPI actually makes me slower. On April 24 2013 09:33 Cyro wrote: changing to this kind of grip (base of palm support, almost nothing relying on mouse fingers 1 and 2) seems best for me, complete freedom of movement while having the mouse support from the base of palm (but not too much of it) and pain/discomfort comes elsewhere, not in the wrist. The STABILITY from base of palm contact point is 10000% neccesary for Osu maps like this There we are, discussing mouse grips again.  Am I correct in assuming that you only use your arm for vertical movements? Don’t you have the feeling you’re loosing precision through not using your mouse fingers 1 and 2? On April 24 2013 09:33 Cyro wrote: i think, need to throw the weight of the mouse around so much without it turning or slipping too far or not far enough. Maybe that's partly in the deathadder 3.5g weighing a bit, being longer than some mice and having a weird center of gravity though - If i could make a CM spawn stormadder or even a couple of other mouse shells, i would not hesitate The DA really is heavy. I think the lighter a mouse, the better. If you have soldering experience you could go for a KinzuAdder. StormAdder sounds interesting, I have never heard of this Frankenmouse before. ^^ | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
1400pts masters | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 26 2013 20:02 Pulimuli wrote: 1800dpi 1000hz max sens in windows w/ pointer precision and 100% in sc2 Sarcasm? | ||
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Slipspace
United States381 Posts
the blue poster from page one saying people dont play with over 2000 dpi is just blatantly wrong a lot of people take the time to adjust to a higher dpi setting so they dont have to move their wrist as much when they use their computers and i can click very accurately | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 26 2013 20:02 Pulimuli wrote: 1800dpi 1000hz max sens in windows w/ pointer precision and 100% in sc2 1400pts masters In case this wasn’t sarcasm: Your settings are insanely bad. First you shouldn’t set your mouse on 1000 Hz when you’re using it with over 1000 CPI. Else your mouse jitters. Second: Pointer precision enables acceleration, which is in general regarded as very bad for SC 2. Third: By using 11/11 in Windows and 100 % in SC 2 you mouse cursor skips pixels and moves inconsistent. Instead of this your mouse moves like this. And finally: Your sensitivity is overall way too high. 11/11 in Windows and 100 % in SC 2 make your mouse behave like it had 6300 CPI (!). Even on a monitor with a 4K resolution that’d be too much. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
Poe's law, named after its author Nathan Poe, is an Internet adage reflecting the idea that without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of extremism. There we are, discussing mouse grips again. Am I correct in assuming that you only use your arm for vertical movements? Don’t you have the feeling you’re loosing precision through not using your mouse fingers 1 and 2? It's impossible to use mouse fingers 1 and 2 from a proper claw grip, unless you break the contact point on the base of your palm. Actually, it's kinda impossible to use mouse fingers 1 and 2 at all - it's just not part of the grip. It's very hard to get right, i am still learning and its pretty much impossible to explain a lot of mouse grips, like lifting form, it's so so easy to do something slightly different that completely changes the whole thing, accidentally Look at this: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AojmUJ_T0Dw How little the type of grip relies on mouse fingers 1 and 2, and he clearly has accuracy i did not even think possible on an avago 9800 The DA really is heavy. I think the lighter a mouse, the better. If you have soldering experience you could go for a KinzuAdder. StormAdder sounds interesting, I have never heard of this Frankenmouse before. ^^ I think lighter = better too, i have no experience, but with the DA aparantly being heavy (i hear this everywhere) you can definitely feel the difficulty in changing it's velocity. Stormadder was just made up on the spot, i doubt you can do it (kinzuadder only works because circuitboard size fits in the shell etc) | ||
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KaoReal
Canada340 Posts
EDIT: One thing that I noticed was somewhat difficult to adjust to is screen-scrolling. I know it is a sub-optimal way to navigate, and I do use location cameras, but sometimes it is necessary. It feels like my mouse isn't reaching my screen edge quite as fast as I'm used to and it's causing me to pull the mouse off the edge of the screen before I've scrolled as far as I'd intended. It will probably just require a little more getting used to, but I'm considering increasing scroll speed to compensate. Ironically, I was considering reducing my scroll speed prior to the DPI reduction in order to discourage myself from screen scrolling unnecessarily! | ||
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mafaba
Germany73 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I play largely from the wrist because of A) the way my desk is set up and B) the wrist-pad I use You could injure yourself using a desk or posture setup that limits you in those ways (A) more details? And wrist pads... nonononononono Wrist-level sensitivites are arguably ok, but wrist pads especially if you mean those gel things are just death. They're designed for office workers, not playing RTS/FPS Screen scrolling is one thing that holds you back a bit, seing as touching the bottomleft side of the screen and then the topright is the biggest movement you have to make.. If you're limited at all (by dpi, or combination of grip and dpi) then it will show up there first, but i actually had more problem because i don't do that, with drag scrolling - drag scroll in sc2 scales with DPI, which means that while you can cross the entire screen in 4 inches, you often have to move like 10 inches to do certain movements with drag scroll that you can do in 2.5 inches with 4x the dpi, which starts to present a problem, i was looking for a workaround for a long time to increase mouse sensitivity (does not really matter for "pixel perfect" etc) while middle mouse was pressed, so i could drag scroll a lot easier, because you can functionally use as much as 5-20x the sens on drag scroll than you want ingame, because of how it functions, but i decided to up sens instead of using 360/450 steps and having to compensate for being stuck in mud a bit in terms of camera movement, because i did do that naturally, with camera hotkeys, double tapping to units etc, but it's a handicap and i don't like it - 630 or 720 should completely remove that though, and it's probably personal a bit when it starts to come in as limiting options | ||
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KaoReal
Canada340 Posts
On April 27 2013 01:31 Cyro wrote: You could injure yourself using a desk or posture setup that limits you in those ways (A) more details? And wrist pads... nonononononono Wrist-level sensitivites are arguably ok, but wrist pads especially if you mean those gel things are just death. They're designed for office workers, not playing RTS/FPS Screen scrolling is one thing that holds you back a bit, seing as touching the bottomleft side of the screen and then the topright is the biggest movement you have to make.. If you're limited at all (by dpi, or combination of grip and dpi) then it will show up there first, but i actually had more problem because i don't do that, with drag scrolling - drag scroll in sc2 scales with DPI, which means that while you can cross the entire screen in 4 inches, you often have to move like 10 inches to do certain movements with drag scroll that you can do in 2.5 inches with 4x the dpi, which starts to present a problem, i was looking for a workaround for a long time to increase mouse sensitivity (does not really matter for "pixel perfect" etc) while middle mouse was pressed, so i could drag scroll a lot easier, because you can functionally use as much as 5-20x the sens on drag scroll than you want ingame, because of how it functions, but i decided to up sens instead of using 360/450 steps and having to compensate for being stuck in mud a bit in terms of camera movement, because i did do that naturally, with camera hotkeys, double tapping to units etc, but it's a handicap and i don't like it - 630 or 720 should completely remove that though, and it's probably personal a bit when it starts to come in as limiting options Elaboration on point A might be difficult without pictures, but I will try. The maximum distance that I can have my monitor from my face (due to space restrictions) is about an arm-length, which is appropriate, but this requires me to have the chair somewhat distanced from the desk, meaning that my arms cannot be at 90 degree angles at the elbows. They're more like 45 degrees to the armrest, and then extend horizontally in order to reach my peripherals. The issue arises when my chair height is compared to my desk height. The armrest is slightly lower (less than an inch) than the desk, so when I rest my elbow on the armrest and my hand on the mouse, the edge of the desk intrudes on the space that my forearm occupies, causing an unwanted pivot point about half way up my forearm. I circumvented the issue a long time ago by using this wrist pad: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX15975 It is just tall enough to stop the desk edge from going into my forearm, but also causes me to have a wrist pivot because it acts somewhat like an anchor in that it doesn't slide around much. It is quite firm. EDIT: Are you saying that the higher my DPI is, the faster the screen will scroll when my mouse is connecting with the edge of the screen? That would explain the mental disconnect I'm having with that one issue in particular in my adjustment to the new DPI. Please verify! EDIT2: I should mention that I was under the impression that a wrist rest was a good thing because it reduces the bend in the wrist. I thought the upward bend in the wrist when normally using computer peripherals was to be avoided. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
And second question, you are right, but you should sit on some folded up towels or something to raise height, not use a wrist wrest or something to compensate for it Why do you need chair distanced from desk? I view screen at a distance where if i reach out with my hand, my entire hand goes past the screen and wrist is about even with it, though some would call it a bit close you shouldn't have to sit back really far i think. Maybe this is not optimal, but AFAIK it's the best thing to do, at least the chair thing. My chair/desk height gives the same thing | ||
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KaoReal
Canada340 Posts
I'll give the seat thing a try. I also had a question about mouse grip and vertical screen movement. I feel like I might need to adjust my grip for comfort with these changes to my setup. If I were to use a palm grip, I imagine I'd pull back or push forward on the mouse from my shoulder/elbow, using my weenis as a sort of lubricant between my elbow and the armrest? For a loose/floating fingertip grip, would I do the same, or use a fingertip opening/closing movement to do vertical cursor movements? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
I don't use palm, because i think it's just flat out worse at "low" sensitivity levels For a fingertip grip you can use a mixture of fingertip movements and moving the arm (at shoulder/elbow), i don't like pivoting the wrist (partially because it rotates the mouse, which means moving the arm left/right will now move cursor diagonally instead of left/right) | ||
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Glenn313
United States475 Posts
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NewDawn
Canada120 Posts
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Wolf15
6 Posts
6/11 win, 51% SC2, all accelerations off, 1000hz | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On April 26 2013 22:34 blueslobster wrote: In case this wasn’t sarcasm: Your settings are insanely bad. First you shouldn’t set your mouse on 1000 Hz when you’re using it with over 1000 CPI. Else your mouse jitters. Second: Pointer precision enables acceleration, which is in general regarded as very bad for SC 2. Third: By using 11/11 in Windows and 100 % in SC 2 you mouse cursor skips pixels and moves inconsistent. Instead of this your mouse moves like this. And finally: Your sensitivity is overall way too high. 11/11 in Windows and 100 % in SC 2 make your mouse behave like it had 6300 CPI (!). Even on a monitor with a 4K resolution that’d be too much. its not sarcasm or trolling i use those settingsif i disable pointer precision my micro is insanely bad, i cant click a single unit even if my pointer is right on them | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
if i disable pointer precision my micro is insanely bad, i cant click a single unit even if my pointer is right on them Because your mouse DPI is too high by a factor of about 5-10, you rely on the massive negative acceleration on enhanced pointer precision | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On April 28 2013 01:39 Cyro wrote: Because your mouse DPI is too high by a factor of about 5-10, you rely on the massive negative acceleration on enhanced pointer precision its unplayable if i lower my dpi to 800 though, even at 11/11 windows speed its far to slow to even move the mouse 1 screenlenght | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1199 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On April 28 2013 01:40 Pulimuli wrote: its unplayable if i lower my dpi to 800 though, even at 11/11 windows speed its far to slow to even move the mouse 1 screenlenght Of course it is, because you are used to settings so vastly different, but nobody uses them for a reason I'd say disable EPP, put sc2 sens to 51-54%, windows to 6/11, and just use 2k DPI or whatever for a day or so.. and then drop hard once you are used to it. Unless there is something physically limiting you from moving the mouse less than an inch, you can cross the entire screen at 2k dpi with extreme ease, and you can drop to a third of that sens after a while and adjust up from there if you still wanted to | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On April 28 2013 02:06 Cyro wrote: Of course it is, because you are used to settings so vastly different, but nobody uses them for a reason I'd say disable EPP, put sc2 sens to 51-54%, windows to 6/11, and just use 2k DPI or whatever for a day or so.. and then drop hard once you are used to it. Unless there is something physically limiting you from moving the mouse less than an inch, you can cross the entire screen at 2k dpi with extreme ease, and you can drop to a third of that sens after a while and adjust up from there if you still wanted to thanks for the advice but ive played like this for years and i have no intention of going pro, im pretty satisfied being top25 or top8 masters and it will take some time to adjust to new settings which im not very keen on doing! also changing my dpi and sens setting will fuck me over in other games too :/ | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
It's not at all neccesary (as you show) but if you want to take mouse control to the next level, it's the right thing to do | ||
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NewDawn
Canada120 Posts
I can't seem to adjust to lower DPI than that. | ||
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Keeemy
Finland7855 Posts
It's just a preference, but with slower DPI it's "easier" to be accurate once you get used to it. | ||
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NewDawn
Canada120 Posts
The idea of moving my arm that much is hard, but I'll probably experiment with it on a different server or something. Edit: What does point movement speed do, and should it be at 5/10 :l | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
For example top right to bottom left is optimal to select units and send them on the minimap. | ||
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nohbrows
United States653 Posts
Last I checked (on a phone right now), I have my mouse at 6/11 windows, 51% in game, 3500 dpi. Razer deathadder. If the dpi is set below 1800 it feels like I'm moving a brick. But that's just me. I like being able to cross the entire screen with just a flick. Edit: and no accleration. | ||
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mardi
United States1164 Posts
Windows 6/11 Enhanced Pointer Precision OFF Acceleration OFF 1600 DPI 51% Sensitivity in-game | ||
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sLideSC2
United States225 Posts
Windows 6/11 Enhanced Pointer Precison OFF 4500 DPI at 1920x1080 ingame sensitivity off Wow I'm actually the highest sens in the thread. top 500 NA terran, ~1640 masters | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
I don't see how boxing from top left to bottom right is optimal. It's useful to use different case of boxing because they're optimal at different moments. For example top right to bottom left is optimal to select units and send them on the minimap. I think he meant it requires less muscular effort to go top left/bottom right and less stress on your wrist. The optimal way to box when talking about speed is the one you're talking about (when you don't have to change direction with the pointer to give the order to the units you just selected). I finally settled for 720 CPI, 630 was still a bit too low to reach the bottom left of the minimap easily :p | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On April 28 2013 19:44 Nimix wrote: [...] I finally settled for 720 CPI, 630 was still a bit too low to reach the bottom left of the minimap easily :p This is one problem I've had in the process of lowering the DPI of my mouse :D I'm more precise micro-wise, but at first I'm very slow and inaccurate with my minimap because it feels so far away, so it lowers my overall multitasking. It usually settles eventually and I'm able to use the minimap comfortably again but it always seems like a micro vs multitasking trade-off each time | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
Just give it time to get use to. It was a pain in the ass for me too to switch to lower dpi, but well worth it. | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 28 2013 19:44 Nimix wrote: I think he meant it requires less muscular effort to go top left/bottom right and less stress on your wrist. It’s the best standard boxing technique. On April 28 2013 19:44 Nimix wrote: The optimal way to box when talking about speed is the one you're talking about (when you don't have to change direction with the pointer to give the order to the units you just selected). Boxing like that can save time, if you are able to execute it well enough. This is a really advanced topic. | ||
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Tsavo
Denmark12 Posts
Windows 6/11 Enhanced Pointer Precision off Acceleration off 1600 DPI In-game sensitivity off | ||
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Mackem
United Kingdom470 Posts
Windows - 6/11 Enhanced Pointer Precision - Off Acceleration - Off DPI - 1400 Polling rate - 1000 In-game sensitivity - Off | ||
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
Windows - 6/11, like everyone basically. No enhanced pointer precision/acceleration. DPI: 700 Polling rate: 1000hz No in-game sensitivity. I like low sens mice, gives me more accuracy. | ||
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WellCrap
Sweden122 Posts
Windows 6/11, Isn't this ideal? DPI:2000, Id like to lower it a bit for my future wrist, but I like it nice and responsive. Polling rate: 1000hz, Any reason to lower? | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
I have no problem selecting individual stalkers or sentries or HTs in the middle of fights. Im interested in why people are saying higher DPI is worse for long term wrist health? Can someone explain this for me? My keyboard hand is always the more tired of the two after an extended play session (even in LOL where my keyboard hand does jack shit compared to SC2). Thanks! | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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eBinTestO
Finland104 Posts
2. Download this driver 3. The drivers sensitivity is a dpi multiplier, 1 being 0.1, 5 is 0.5 and so on. 5,5 on 1800 is 990 dpi, 6 makes i 1080 dpi. | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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eBinTestO
Finland104 Posts
My settings are; Razer Abyssus 6/11 in windows, no acceleration 51% in SC2 810 dpi Polling rate 1000hz | ||
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kill619
United States212 Posts
dpi 1600 Windows 4/11 accel - on in game sensitivity disabled | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
played with a cm storm spawn on 3200 dpi Man i can understand some uninformed people using 3200dpi (like i did) on a big mouse, but on a spawn? x3 that must have been a wrist killer Cut your DPI in half again, play at 500-700 for two hours and go back up, it helps a lot for getting used to it if it feels too slow, or too fast (go past it to an extreme and then fall back) | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
nah i feel like low dpi is way worse for my wrist Then stop locking your wrist and using it as a left/right pivot, you're doing it wrong, may explain why you have any trouble adjusting to 1000dpi which is quite fast Hold mouse between your thumb and fourth finger, dont move wrist or fingers, and practice moving mouse back and forth long distances very fast, and the feel will start to come naturally. Unless you're using >1920x1080, it takes you less than 5cm of movement to cross your entire screen on the greatest lengh, which should seem fast to you if you move it in a better/different way instead of trying to mimic a high dpi while at a low one, which can only lead to subpar results IMO | ||
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YouthSC
United Kingdom355 Posts
3500 dpi 71% in SC2 6/11 in Windows Anything less than this feels slow, I cannot move my arm or hand, as oftentimes I have like 1 inch of space at either side of the mouse. | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
On June 08 2013 23:54 Cyro wrote: Then stop locking your wrist and using it as a left/right pivot, you're doing it wrong, may explain why you have any trouble adjusting to 1000dpi which is quite fast Hold mouse between your thumb and fourth finger, dont move wrist or fingers, and practice moving mouse back and forth long distances very fast, and the feel will start to come naturally. Unless you're using >1920x1080, it takes you less than 5cm of movement to cross your entire screen on the greatest lengh, which should seem fast to you if you move it in a better/different way instead of trying to mimic a high dpi while at a low one, which can only lead to subpar results IMO well, if u go from 3200 and substract 2200...everything feels slow doesnt matter how u do it, it just is plain and simple -_- i am not even sure its really worth the hassle just to get a bit more accurate cuz its pretty hard to remove a habit that was formed for like 18ish years or so ~_~ | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On June 09 2013 00:16 {ToT}ColmA wrote: well, if u go from 3200 and substract 2200...everything feels slow doesnt matter how u do it, it just is plain and simple -_- i am not even sure its really worth the hassle just to get a bit more accurate cuz its pretty hard to remove a habit that was formed for like 18ish years or so ~_~ It's not necessary, but it's definitely worth it imo. | ||
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diverzee
Sweden992 Posts
After reading this thread I tried changing from 1600 to 800 and it is extremely slow. I have to wave my whole forearm around to make movements, and I can barely browse the internet without misclicking. I must be doing something wrong If 1600 (or perhaps the 3rd setting is 1500) is too high, is there any way to make my mouse do 1000 or 1200 or so? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On June 09 2013 00:16 {ToT}ColmA wrote: well, if u go from 3200 and substract 2200...everything feels slow doesnt matter how u do it, it just is plain and simple -_- i am not even sure its really worth the hassle just to get a bit more accurate cuz its pretty hard to remove a habit that was formed for like 18ish years or so ~_~ Sure but if you go to 500dpi for 2 hours and then back to 1000 it's easy to smash years of bad habits If you don't want to put in the effort to improve, then dont | ||
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TwilightRain
Germany351 Posts
On June 11 2013 03:05 diverzee wrote: Okay, I am extremely bad with anything computer related, and sorry in advance about the stupid question. I am using my old Logitech mx518 and I have those windows 6/11 settings, and unchecked enhanced pointer precision. The mouse has buttons which I think corresponds to dpi settings of 400, 800 or 1600. After reading this thread I tried changing from 1600 to 800 and it is extremely slow. I have to wave my whole forearm around to make movements, and I can barely browse the internet without misclicking. I must be doing something wrong If 1600 (or perhaps the 3rd setting is 1500) is too high, is there any way to make my mouse do 1000 or 1200 or so?First of all, it takes more than just a couple of hours to completely adjust to a new sensitivity setting, so yes. you will misclick in the beginning, maybe even a lot. Secondly, waving/moving your forearm is actually better for your arm/wrist than just having it locked in place while controlling the mouse. | ||
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Nasty.Nate
United States96 Posts
I'm mid masters on NA, my advice is go with what feels most comfortable to you... as long as you have mouse acceleration off you are fine. Also, these low DPI advocates are kind of silly. I would argue you want the highest DPI you can get without sacrificing too much accuracy. I've experimented with everything from very high (3500) to low (800) DPI. I found that it's hard to be accurate at very high DPIs, you will still make a lot of mistakes even when you get familiar with it. Low DPI is arguably worse, it will just slow you down and essentially you will end up doing fewer things (lower APM). I settled on 2000 arbitrarily because I felt like something between 1600-2500 would be both fast and accurate for me. | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On June 12 2013 19:13 Nasty.Nate wrote: My preference is 6/11, no EPP, disable in game sensitivity, 2000 DPI on a 1920x1080 monitor. I use a Logitech G500. Mouse scrolling speed at 70% I'm mid masters on NA, my advice is go with what feels most comfortable to you... as long as you have mouse acceleration off you are fine. Also, these low DPI advocates are kind of silly. I would argue you want the highest DPI you can get without sacrificing too much accuracy. I've experimented with everything from very high (3500) to low (800) DPI. I found that it's hard to be accurate at very high DPIs, you will still make a lot of mistakes even when you get familiar with it. Low DPI is arguably worse, it will just slow you down and essentially you will end up doing fewer things (lower APM). I settled on 2000 arbitrarily because I felt like something between 1600-2500 would be both fast and accurate for me. Tell that to every professional starcraft player. 800 dpi is not considered low for sc2. It is average. | ||
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Nasty.Nate
United States96 Posts
On June 12 2013 21:26 Thor.Rush wrote: Tell that to every professional starcraft player. 800 dpi is not considered low for sc2. It is average. And how would you know? I watch a lot of Starcraft, and I've yet to witness a single pro discuss their mouse sensitivity, let alone all of them. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
In general sc2 pro's dont seem to care much about mouse accuracy and tend to use higher | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
On June 13 2013 05:31 Nasty.Nate wrote: And how would you know? I watch a lot of Starcraft, and I've yet to witness a single pro discuss their mouse sensitivity, let alone all of them. BW pros all used to use similar mice with 400 dpi. Then with sc2 and the increased resolution, 800dpi was better for a lot of people. Look at the Zowie MiCO which was designed with help of the Startale team. Quoting from Zowie Gear website: "StarTales gamers are used to playing with 400 and 800 DPI rates, so this was a key point for the development of the ZOWIE MiCO". DeMuslim has discussed his sensitivity sometimes and he uses 1070dpi iirc, which is probably a bit higher than the average pro, but still definitely in the normal range. I could go on with more examples to prove my point, but anyway you can also get an idea of the sensitivity by watching how much they move their mouse on the mouse pad. | ||
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ikmtgv
United States24 Posts
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AxUU
Finland162 Posts
I usually use lowest sensitivity in everything, best choice. | ||
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mookapuv
United States1 Post
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On June 14 2013 00:58 Thor.Rush wrote:+ Show Spoiler + A lot of this is experiential knowledge from watching streams, and settings. I can tell you that Nestea at one point was using about 1000cpi, and we learned that by his stream, so it tends to come from a bunch of places. I would venture a guess to why pro gamers don't talk about their settings is that they've largely figured them out for Star2 now, whereas 2-3 years ago the game was brand new.On June 13 2013 05:31 Nasty.Nate wrote: And how would you know? I watch a lot of Starcraft, and I've yet to witness a single pro discuss their mouse sensitivity, let alone all of them. BW pros all used to use similar mice with 400 dpi. Then with sc2 and the increased resolution, 800dpi was better for a lot of people. Look at the Zowie MiCO which was designed with help of the Startale team. Quoting from Zowie Gear website: "StarTales gamers are used to playing with 400 and 800 DPI rates, so this was a key point for the development of the ZOWIE MiCO". DeMuslim has discussed his sensitivity sometimes and he uses 1070dpi iirc, which is probably a bit higher than the average pro, but still definitely in the normal range. I could go on with more examples to prove my point, but anyway you can also get an idea of the sensitivity by watching how much they move their mouse on the mouse pad. Additionally, you have to understand that 800cpi allows you to traverse your entire 1080p screens width in less than 5", which for me allows me to keep my hand stationary - but beyond that - when do you ever go from one end of the screen to the other (the total area). With the combination of screen hotkeys and other typical ways you use your mouse in this environment its pretty rare to use more than 2/3 of the space on your screen within a single action. Also, you'll also note that a lot of players pick up their mice occasionally, so even that changes things. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
If you look at BW for example too, 1920/640 = 3, so if you take that 400dpi*3, you'd have 1200, but i don't think people would really adjust up/down because that's already in an acceptable range and all of the mice were 400dpi anyway | ||
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binski
United States225 Posts
I play with 900 dpi 6/11 and am shocked anyone can even be remotely accurate with 1600+dpi. Never sacrifice accuracy and precision for speed seems to be the general consensus and they are right. | ||
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Eazypeezy
Canada54 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
wow, didnt realize people use such high DPI settings.. I play with 900 dpi 6/11 and am shocked anyone can even be remotely accurate with 1600+dpi Very few people actually push themselves and almost all are content with bad mouse accuracy, it's common to just assume "that's the way it is" or that you just need more practice etc, that's the impression i get from most people It is a handicap, not a choice, especially above those levels If anyone is interested go to khaldor's youtube channel and he has a ton of first person vods of tons of Korean pro's playing. I think its pretty easy to tell what types of sensitivity players are using. It seems that majority are playing fairly high DPI it dosent seem that they move there mouse very much It looks surprising how little hand moves.. Halfway across screen at 1000dpi is only ~2cm | ||
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Meow-Meow
Germany451 Posts
On June 14 2013 00:58 Thor.Rush wrote: BW pros all used to use similar mice with 400 dpi. Then with sc2 and the increased resolution, 800dpi was better for a lot of people. Look at the Zowie MiCO which was designed with help of the Startale team. Quoting from Zowie Gear website: "StarTales gamers are used to playing with 400 and 800 DPI rates, so this was a key point for the development of the ZOWIE MiCO". DeMuslim has discussed his sensitivity sometimes and he uses 1070dpi iirc, which is probably a bit higher than the average pro, but still definitely in the normal range. I could go on with more examples to prove my point, but anyway you can also get an idea of the sensitivity by watching how much they move their mouse on the mouse pad. Oh wow, I thought he got you there, but that's a frightening amount of knowledge on such a super-specific subject. Please do go on, we already know you're right, but please procede just for the fuck of it. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
If anyone is interested go to khaldor's youtube channel and he has a ton of first person vods of tons of Korean pro's playing. I think its pretty easy to tell what types of sensitivity players are using. It seems that majority are playing fairly high DPI it dosent seem that they move there mouse very much Actually judging from the videos most of them play around 800 dpi, jjakji, mkp, most of the zerg have to move their mouse quite a bit to sidescroll. Only some protoss players like madbull and balloon seem to play with 1600ish. Funny that madbull got called on his bad unit control in GSTL just after I watched said fpvod :D As protoss your micro is mainly spell based so you may not feel the need for more precision even if it would probably help with forcefields, but as terran or zerg, lower sens make it way easier to micro bio or ling/bane, period, not even talking about how it makes you faster and more precise in general. | ||
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Eazypeezy
Canada54 Posts
On July 18 2013 19:51 Nimix wrote: Actually judging from the videos most of them play around 800 dpi, jjakji, mkp, most of the zerg have to move their mouse quite a bit to sidescroll. Only some protoss players like madbull and balloon seem to play with 1600ish. Funny that madbull got called on his bad unit control in GSTL just after I watched said fpvod :D As protoss your micro is mainly spell based so you may not feel the need for more precision even if it would probably help with forcefields, but as terran or zerg, lower sens make it way easier to micro bio or ling/bane, period, not even talking about how it makes you faster and more precise in general. How Can you play 800 DPI I find most mice have settings at like 450 1600 3500 etc etc what mice have 800 dpi settings | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
I think it's all about how comfortable you are. I know that my days of ~4000 dpi were really excruciatingly hard, and I tried for a long time to increase my mouse accuracy, but as soon as I dropped down and got used to it, I've felt super comfortable with everything since. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20285 Posts
On July 27 2013 19:11 SC2John wrote: I'll be honest, I used to use ~4000 dpi on 1440 x 900 and after reading this topic, I decided to try out going slower. It was really ugly for the first week, but I've gotten used to it and dropped down to ~1600 dpi comfortably. I tried going lower, but I just felt way too slow below 1400 dpi to do anything and felt like it actually just make all of my actions less efficient. I believe that some pros may play on even lower sensitivities on larger screens, but I can't even imagine it. I think it's all about how comfortable you are. I know that my days of ~4000 dpi were really excruciatingly hard, and I tried for a long time to increase my mouse accuracy, but as soon as I dropped down and got used to it, I've felt super comfortable with everything since. You gotta get the ergonomics stuff right, i found from using other peoples desk setups etc, it can be difficult to move in the right ways, especially if you are not sat high enough relative to the desk, and you have to re-learn habits for how to hold and use the mouse if you make a big sensitivity change. I'm sure if you're set up right you'd be good for lowering further in a little while if you wanted to | ||
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