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I learned from one of the reviews that there are two games that use more than four threads: Arma II and Shogun 2: Total War. Oddly enough, Shogun 2 (a game I care about somewhat) didn't seem to benefit from hyper-threading though, as the i5-2500k actually out-performed the i7-2600k but the i7-3930k showed a solid increase in performance over both. I suppose that means that Shogun 2 uses virtually all of the physical cores and so there's no room for whatever hypterthreading does (as far as I understand, hypterthreading is best for things that use like 8+ cores but only 50% of the core?). I mention that so someone can tell me I'm horribly wrong if they know better  .
Edit: the bit-tech review.
In reply to Shikyo:
One of the things I've noticed in your posts Shikyo is that you often think there can be a single optimized build for a certain budget (see your optimized builds for all budgets thread). You ignore (or discount) the fact that different purposes call for very different setups, and prioritize optimizing for a generic gaming/casual build. Don't get me wrong, I think you're an asset to the forum, but you often seem confused why people would go for a build other than the one you think of as the 'best' for a certain budget. Sometimes people's desired purposes just call for other things.
Note you're likely right for Jukin, who I'm assuming is an average gamer.
Edit in response to below: the review I looked at included overclocks (4.6k for the 3960x, 4.7k for the 3930k). I didn't really look at the non-overclocked performance.
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Discount what?
The performance increase is in the 20-30% range for the most multi-threaded applications but 2700k overclocks better. I just don't think a 400$ difference is worth it with this kind of a budget seeing as he's only getting a single 6970 as well.
Also, I in fact specialize in specific builds for specific purposes.
Also 3930K has better turbo boost at stock so that might have something to do with it, remember those tests weren't with overclocked processors.
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On November 16 2011 03:59 Shikyo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 03:45 skyR wrote:
The 3930k has a max multiplier of 57 just like every other unlocked Sandybridge. Saying that it hits a brick wall at 4.6GHz is like saying the 2500k and 2600k hits a brick wall of 4.6GHz even though that's far from true. Breaking 5GHz would require ~1.5v which definitely isn't recommended for 24/7 usage. I much rather have a 12 threaded processor run at 4.6GHz than a 8 threaded processor run at 5.1GHz for encoding and editing. Not to mention if you need the memory bandwidth, it's much better to build on a platform with quad channel memory than to build on one with 2133MHz in dual channel. A Finnish computer site overclocked 3960X with LIQUID NITROGEN: ![[image loading]](http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/X-2011111410283808752.png) The best units managed to be clocked to 4.75-4.8Ghz on air. With liquid nitrogen with the processor at -30c they managed to only reach 5.3Ghz. This is 3960X and not 3930K which should overclock worse. And of course you'd much rather have that but it costs 400$ more and consumes power like a Bulldozer: ![[image loading]](http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/X-2011111410265932371.png) @MisterFred no, it's never going to be good for price-performance. Never. edit: Okay apart from the 2000$+ budget situations but this is like half that
Obviously it consumes a lot of power than a consumer quad core with hyperthreading, it's a gimped server processor.
It doesn't matter if the "best units" can overclock to 4.8GHz when you don't even specify a sample size. The best units could be one in two or one in three or one in a hundred. It doesn't help your argument that you provide an overclocked sample of LGA2011 but not core i7 2700k and this is all based on assumption. Not to mention we all know that a higher binned processor doesn't always equate to better overclocking results.
I already mentioned if memory bandwidth is a concern, it's better to build on the LGA2011 platform. Not to mention if you need the memory bandwidth, you'll likely need the nearly double amount of cache provided by the core i7 3930k over the core i7 2700k and you will actually see octo cores released on this platform whereas the LGA1155 platform will never see even a hex core.
We already discussed performance per dollar and quite frankly I think he's made it clear he doesn't want to go that route. For only ~$200 more, the configuration I listed is much better purchase than the LGA1155 configuration listed. Not to mention if you don't want a motherboard with 8 DIMM slots, you can opt for a motherboard that's close to $100 less expensive such as the normal P9X79 or X79 UD3 or X79 GD45.
It's probably why he wanted to discuss in private...
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Honestly if you're going for LGA2011, why not just wait until next year when the full 20MB L3 cache 8core 3980X is released? Just go all the way.
Also it's 400$ more not 200$
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I just wanted to say that I do plan on the using the computer for more than gaming such as streaming in 1080p, encoding, 3d modelling and photoshop. I have the funds available to go ahead and purchase something top-of-the-line at the moment and I'm not incredibly interested in just a budget PC used for only gaming so I'm excited about spending a little extra to go ahead and have a really nice PC for the next couple years with the ability to add new parts/new tech as I go along. Shikyo you're advice doesn't go unnoticed and if I didn't have the extra funds available I would go ahead and go with a budget PC that only took care of the gaming needs, but I want the build to encompass all aspects and future possibilities without much hindrance.
You have to enjoy how you're spending money when its available. :D
Thank you all for your help, I'll go ahead and post what I do order on friday.
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Well, you can feel free. And it's not like I'm going to somehow not allow you to spend the money however you want to, I just need to say it's not worth it when I think it isn't.
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On November 16 2011 04:46 Shikyo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Honestly if you're going for LGA2011, why not just wait until next year when the full 20MB L3 cache 8core 3980X is released? Just go all the way.
Also it's 400$ more not 200$
The difference between the configurations in question is not $400. It's around $200, $300 at most if you want to be picky about this and do the math yourself.
Octo cores will be introduced with Ivybridge-E. There is no indication that 3980x will be an octo core and I do not expect it to be either.
And the performance difference between a 2700k and a 3930k for the heavily multi-threaded tasks is more like 50%....
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"Muropaketin tietojen mukaan samoihin aikoihin Intel aikoo julkaista vieläkin suorituskykyisemmän Core i7-3980X Extreme Edition -prosessorin, jossa on käytössä koko piisirun potentiaali eli kahdeksan ydintä, Hyper-Threading-ominaisuuden myötä 16 säiettä ja 20 megatavun kokoinen L3-välimuisti."
"according to the information Muropaketti(the site) has received, around the same time i7-3820 is coming out, Intel is planning to release the even more efficient Core i7-3980X Extreme Edition-processor, which will have all the 8 functional cores of the chip unlocked, 16 threads via hyper-threading, and 20MB L3-cache"
As you can see here:
![[image loading]](http://plaza.fi/s/f/editor/images/X-201111141017336189.jpg)
2 cores are locked. Why would intel make a sandybridge with 2 locked cores if they weren't ever planning on unlocking them? So yes, there is plenty of implication that 3980X will be 8-core.
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Quite possibly 8 core configs only with the equivalent Xeon models?
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So why would the site say something like that then? -.-
Well we'll see, I'm calling a 8core with 20mb L3.
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I already mentioned Sandybridge-E is a gimped EP. I do not need what I already mentioned repeated to me. And the two cores are not locked, they're actually removed.
So based on information which is not mentioned, the 3980x will be an octo core... okay.
This isn't very hard to comprehend for anyone in the industry or with common sense, there's actually numerous reasons why Intel will not release an octo Sandybridge-E this early.
- An octo core would not be clocked faster than a hex core. This is a dead give away that it will be a hex core.
- Heat and power makes it not feasible. Duh...
- Competition is stagnant.
- Bad business decision to release a new flagship only a few months after their last flagship.
- Price difference simply won't make sense in the market right now.
- It's better marketing for the Third Generation Core processors.
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edit: very late response, was away, so nevermind skyR got it
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On November 16 2011 03:01 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 20:17 MicroMarine wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 12:20 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 11:11 MicroMarine wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey guys, have some questions here. First off, since it's nearing the holidays (well, black friday and cyber monday), I know there will be some deals here and there. Should I build a custom gaming build or go with a gaming laptop? I've found some nice laptops on sites that fit my budget of ~500. I want to use my machine for gaming on SC2 and more graphic intensive games like BF3 or MW3 (Obviously upgrades are possible). I want SC2 to run on higher settings and other games slightly high without lagging. I also need it for video editing classes, streaming, etc. I might think of overclocking, but as of now, probably not. If I were to go a desktop build, here would be my plan: Intel Pentium G840 - 85$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116398&Tpk=Intel Pentium G840BIOSTAR H61MLC - 55$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138340Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB DDR5 - 120$ (100 after rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102941Pareema 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 - 22 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820576003Xigmatek ASGARD- 40$ (30 after rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811815004CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 V2 430W- 45$ (35 after rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026&Tpk=corsair 430wSAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-222AB - OEM -15$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151233TOTAL WITHOUT REBATES: About 387 (Not counting the hard drives of course) TOTAL WITH REBATES: About 347 (Not counting hard drives) There we go. A few questions though. I haven't picked out a hard drive because of its overpricing. Does anyone know a lower priced at least 500GB hard drive? Also will the power supply handle the 6770? Does everything check out? And also since the final pricing is a bit low (well you can add on 100 for the hard drives), is there anything I can add to make it better while staying in budget? I have an OS and a monitor by the way. And by the way as for the gaming laptop I'm looking at one with a GTX 260m, 6gb RAM, and 2.53 dual processor. Which one works better (I want to be mobile with gaming, but desktops work as well). Prices may not be current because of such of the flooding (stupid hard drives -.-) and may drop because of the holidays :D Thanks for reviewing. Pentium G840 and H61 is not capable of overclocking. You need to decide whether you are overclocking or not upfront because only P67 / Z68 motherboards allow for overclocking and only K suffix processors such as the core i5 2500k have an unlocked multiplier for overclocking. You'll need a quad core for a smooth and decent streaming experience since games use two cores (some use more) so... this leaves you no cores for encoding and everything else. Yes, the power supply is overkill for the listed configuration. There's not any significant upgrade that will keep you within your budget with 500GB HDDs being ~$100. There won't be any $60 1TB HDD sales during Black Friday or Cyber Monday - I can guarantee you this. You also did not specify what resolution you play at. I suggest you save up more. My is it crowded in this thread o0. Anyway, thanks for the help. I play at 1920x1080 (current monitor) or a different monitor with a resolution less then this but I can't recall it. Do you know any decent quad cores for around that price (maybe higher?), since my budget is a bit over 500. If I tone down my power supply a bit maybe that will give me some extra money too. As for the HDDs, I think I'll just get the cheapest one I can find. EDIT: Well I found this: AMD Athlon II X3 450 Rana 3.2GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor ADX450WFGMBOX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681910388678$ Yes, I hear AMD processors lack power. You can unlock cores here, correct? If I get this, then I plan on doing that. Do you guys like this processor? Because of this should I get the laptop? I do want to stream, yes, but couldn't I manage a stream with 2 cores (I can on my 2 core computer, though it's a bit laggy since my processor speed sucks and my graphics card sucks)? Why does sc2 use 2 cores? It seems to work fine when I set affinity to SC2 Thanks again skyR What is the processor you have on your old computer? Most (all) of AMD's X2 and X3 processors can be unlocked but there's no guarantee that the core is actually functional. As mentioned, you do not wanat to invest in an AMD processor. The performance difference between them and AMD is quite significant. You can see it in this article: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i5-2500-2400-2300_7.html#sect0 and in this article: http://www.techspot.com/review/305-starcraft2-performance/page13.html Note that the core i5 2320 is not in this benchmark but it does perform better than the core i7 920 which was released three years ago. Here's another one with the core i5 2400 which is only 100MHz faster than the core i5 2320: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1501/21/This totals to $434 without a HDD, not that much higher than what you originally were planning to purchase - funds are just allocated better: Intel Core i5 2320 @ $175 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63959&promoid=1282HIS Radeon HD6770 @ $105 ($95 after mail in rebate) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161387GSkill 4GB 1333MHz @ $20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231423Biostar H61MGC @ $50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138332Corsair CX430 V2 @ $35 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60345&promoid=1282DVD Burner @ $17 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60344&promoid=1282Coolermaster Elite 370 @ $32 http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55447
Hey, I apologize for the late reply (School, oh boy)
Thanks for your reply As for my "old computer", the one I am currently using... well, its a laptop, so no processor for me there. I think this build checks out as far as I can see. Is there anything else anyone can recommend? And finally, do you think some prices will drop because of the holidays? Could I pick up such hardware in stores to take advantage of that?
Thanks!
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5930 Posts
A company building a computer with the parts they have? No doubt many people have asked for an AMD prebuilt.
Why are you surprised or shocked. Computer companies need to make money you know and this is one way of making it.
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A 1300€ prebuilt with a 6950... that kind of is the problem, the processor's the least of the problems(apart from being marketed as a gaming computer).
Also not exactly surprised I guess, Sad I'm going to have to remove Aria from my short list of good PC builders.
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Out of curiosity, what kind of performance can you get with a 6750M (mobile model) from games like starcraft 2/skyrim? (No higher than 1600x900 res)?
I'm well aware that it won't be ultra level etc. but I'm curious as to if anybody knows. What I've seen seems to indicate a mixture of medium and high, but I'm not entirely positive.
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SC2 runs on low possibly medium, skyrim might barely run at 30 fps
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5930 Posts
Is it expensive? Yes. Does the preoverclocking service give Aria an opportunity to increase their already rock bottom profit margins? Yes. Are there people who want the reassurance that any overclocking failures is Aria's fault and not their own? Yes.
Next you're going to suggest Puget Systems isn't a good PC builder because their desktops are like 3x the price of Newegg. Despite the fact they try and make their money through offering services they offer. Old Sony and HP used to do this too - their hardware was far more expensive than the competition but the service and reassurance of quality was enough for people to choose them over cheaper options that offered more. In the case of HP's business division and Sony's high end gear, this is still the case.
Since when was Bulldozer ever a reasonable option compared to Sandy Bridge? Bulldozer overclocks extremely poorly (Anandtech hit a brick wall at just 4.6Ghz) unless you start shutting everything down in the BIOS; a 4.2-4.4Ghz overclock on Sandy Bridge takes a lot less effort and needs lesser hardware.
The price difference is not as outrageous as you think since the Bulldozer kit packs more expensive hardware anyway.
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EPT
