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United Kingdom20275 Posts
SLI isn't the best solution (though it is MUCH better than crossfire)
You don't need 4gb of VRAM for 1920x1080 or 2560x1440 gaming, it might be a smart choice if you was gaming on 3x1920x1080 but otherwise, not really. 1gb is good for 1920x1080 (very rare case you might want a little more) and 2gb more than good for 2560x1440
Z77-D3H, Z77X-D3H, Z77X-UD3H in order of cost (ie get the cheaper one unless the next step up is not much more)
Belial hit it last page.
EDIT: Reason I'm not waiting for Haswell is because I'm concerned about pricing of both the new CPU and the alleged DDR4 RAM that it will support. Felt it would take a while before it normalises anyway and games actually start making it more of a necessity. Or is this all unwarranted concern?
DDR4 isn't showing up til 2014 on the extreme platform, 2015 mainstream. You're a gen early.
Haswell will cost like 10% more than ivy bridge, and only because intel bumped up pricing a little, it's pretty much the same thing.
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On April 20 2013 04:40 Cyro wrote:SLI isn't the best solution (though it is MUCH better than crossfire) You don't need 4gb of VRAM for 1920x1080 or 2560x1440 gaming, it might be a smart choice if you was gaming on 3x1920x1080 but otherwise, not really. 1gb is good for 1920x1080 (very rare case you might want a little more) and 2gb more than good for 2560x1440 Show nested quote + Z77-D3H, Z77X-D3H, Z77X-UD3H in order of cost (ie get the cheaper one unless the next step up is not much more)
I was thinking of eventually adding on more monitors, sorry, should have mentioned that.
Thanks for the board recommendations, will take a look at them. Wow, replies here are fast!
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
Adding more monitor's does not really hit VRAM much unless (IIRC) they are different resolutions to your primary monitor or something
Unless you are actually running the game on both monitors simultaneously, like stretched across, or maybe multiple game clients
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On April 20 2013 04:39 Belial88 wrote:
samsung 840 pro is a nice ssd, a bit on the expensive side. I'd rather settle for an 830 for value but if you got the money, definitely a great ssd. Do you pirate or rip blurays? Why do you need a 1tb hdd? Why don't you go for a RAID set-up on SSDs instead (it's basically dual channel for ssd/hdd). You could probably do something like 2x256gb SSDs for similar price and better speed. Most people don't need more than 100gb, if not 60gb, of storage. I'd avoid a hdd unless you really need one (sensitive data back-up, ripping blurays).
670 isn't really preferable to the 7950...
Was thinking of using it for the really big stuff like a full back-up. The last time I did one of those my 512GB hard disc wasn't big enough, so I just figured.
I've heard some stuff about AMD GPUs having compatibility issues with certain games, the last time I was active on the Path of Exile forums the tech support section was flooded with threads complaining about it, and I do play it a lot so that's why I thought the 670. 680 and above seem overpriced.
Thanks to Rollin and Cyro as well. Very helpful stuff.
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I think the 840 pro adds some unneccesary stuff or something (maybe higher write speeds?) and you can get the regular 840 for less or something, unsure there
The regular 840 is actually worse than the 830, and costs more. The 840 has a higher copy speed, which is the big number that looks flashy but means nothing. The idea behind the 840 was that it was supposed to be a cheap drive made from cheap parts that performs better than the 830, but it doesn't.
830 is the best value SSD right now. Crucial m4 is slightly more expensive, like just a couple bucks, for similar performance, and then the 840pro is a great high end drive but isn't going to really be noticeable. I'd wait for another generation before recommending something higher end than the 830, really.
Mostly gaming. Hoping to make it last til around 2016, was thinking of adding an additional GPU in SLI and additional ram if it proves necessary before my next build, which was why I decided on a GPU with 4GB of RAM, as I heard that RAM doesn't stack in SLI.
Well if you play sc2 for the next 3 years then you could buy a way weaker computer, does that make sense? It's all about what you do. But any i5/i7 build will last a good 5+ years, don't worry about that. Gaming really isn't that intensive, and the worst it does is outdate your GPU, not your CPU/RAM/case/psu/etc, so even if your build gets outdated in 5+ years, you just swap out the GPU.
SLI isn't really a great idea, you will be better off in the future just selling your GPU and then using the money to buy a better single card. Dont worry about VRAM, any modern card will have 1.5gb of vram which is enough.
Any tips on what I should be looking for in a mobo? All I did was basically picking one which was compatible with my CPU and GPU after deciding on the first 2. Reason I picked ASRock was some favourable reviews and much better prices compared to ASUS and Gigabyte. Any alternative boards I should look at that come to mind to you?
you need to be looking at the VRM quality, something that is extremely complicated and even places like tomshardware and anadtech don't understand at all (actually I think they intentionally mislead, but that's a different topic). Basically, you just need to put your trust into people who really know what they are talking about and have actually used multiple motherboards and stressed them to extremes with benching. I've used the asrock extreme4, ud3h, ud5h, msi boards, so i can give you info on these boards. People who know what they are talking about, will tell you gigabyte is just king of z77 mid-range boards (asus is better at high end but we're talking $300+ there).
Asrock is complete crap on z77, basically, the VRM is so bad that your CPU temps will not be a limiting factor, your motherboard will overheat before your CPU will (provided you got a decent cooler). Overclocking on ivy bridge on ambient cooling (air, water) is completely blocked by temperatures, so if your CPU is under 95*C, you can push higher and higher overclocks - but with a low quality motherboard, your motherboard will get too hot, it will make a whining sound, it will brown and burn your PCB, it will destabilize and cause you to require higher voltage (and therefore more heat) than another board would for the same overclock, it will run inefficiently, and cause lots of problems. Just like with power supplies, you want a decent motherboard, but after a certain point you are just going overkill. It depends on what kind of user you are, but on air cooling an extreme4 will limit moderate overclocks. Not to mention it's just a flimsy, weak piece of crap with terrible build quality and a bad sound chip, bad ram overclocking, etc.
EDIT: Reason I'm not waiting for Haswell is because I'm concerned about pricing of both the new CPU and the alleged DDR4 RAM that it will support. Felt it would take a while before it normalises anyway and games actually start making it more of a necessity. Or is this all unwarranted concern?
where do you get your information? Whever you are getting it, stop listening to them.
haswell will not be ddr4. And haswell will be priced similarly to ivy bridge, just like IB was priced very similar to SB when it came out. It's definitely an unwarranty concern.
However, no one can tell you how haswell will perform, it may be a flop, it may not be, it's a gamble. Based on current information, there is nothing to suggest that haswell is worth holding your breath for though (again, no one can tell you what haswell will be like, it's a gamble, you are betting it will or wont be awesome).
Worst case scenario, you can sell your ivy bridge + motherboard for the price you paid for it, as motherboard components keep their value EXTREMELY well, and buy haswell when it comes out with the money. It's really all very fungible, it's almost as liquid as cash.
The extreme 4 isn't always a great motherboard if there are other similarly priced motherboards, but it'll probably be fine.
Well, it's actually low enough quality that it won't be fine, but the problem is that not only are there a handful of similarly priced motherboards that are way superior in quality, and similarly priced motherboards like gigabyte D3H boards that are 10 times the quality for the same price, but lower priced boards have superior quality. asrock on z77 is like the chrysler of motherboards, there's just way better choices.
Also guy, you should buy an i5-3570k instead of an i7-3770k. If anything, put the extra money towards a 7970. I'm assuming this is for playing bf4 and crysis3 and bioshock, if this is just for starcraft and blizzard/dota games, than you shouldnt buy a GPU more powerful than a $80 gtx 460.
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Was thinking of using it for the really big stuff like a full back-up. The last time I did one of those my 512GB hard disc wasn't big enough, so I just figured.
Why would you put sensitive data on a gaming/overclock computer? You can use an external drive for backups?
I've heard some stuff about AMD GPUs having compatibility issues with certain games, the last time I was active on the Path of Exile forums the tech support section was flooded with threads complaining about it, and I do play it a lot so that's why I thought the 670. 680 and above seem overpriced.
That's a temporary driver issue. I do kinda agree, I would rather go nvidia, but i dont have enough experience to recommend 660ti or 670 over a 7950. If you really want more in-depth information besides everyone saying the 7950/7970 because it's definitely a better all-around card, you need to go to the overclock.net nvidia forums and ask around to people who are clearly knowledgeable and have used the 7950.
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On April 20 2013 05:02 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +I think the 840 pro adds some unneccesary stuff or something (maybe higher write speeds?) and you can get the regular 840 for less or something, unsure there The regular 840 is actually worse than the 830, and costs more. The 840 has a higher copy speed, which is the big number that looks flashy but means nothing. The idea behind the 840 was that it was supposed to be a cheap drive made from cheap parts that performs better than the 830, but it doesn't. 830 is the best value SSD right now. Crucial m4 is slightly more expensive, like just a couple bucks, for similar performance, and then the 840pro is a great high end drive but isn't going to really be noticeable. I'd wait for another generation before recommending something higher end than the 830, really. Show nested quote +Mostly gaming. Hoping to make it last til around 2016, was thinking of adding an additional GPU in SLI and additional ram if it proves necessary before my next build, which was why I decided on a GPU with 4GB of RAM, as I heard that RAM doesn't stack in SLI. Well if you play sc2 for the next 3 years then you could buy a way weaker computer, does that make sense? It's all about what you do. But any i5/i7 build will last a good 5+ years, don't worry about that. Gaming really isn't that intensive, and the worst it does is outdate your GPU, not your CPU/RAM/case/psu/etc, so even if your build gets outdated in 5+ years, you just swap out the GPU. SLI isn't really a great idea, you will be better off in the future just selling your GPU and then using the money to buy a better single card. Dont worry about VRAM, any modern card will have 1.5gb of vram which is enough. Show nested quote +Any tips on what I should be looking for in a mobo? All I did was basically picking one which was compatible with my CPU and GPU after deciding on the first 2. Reason I picked ASRock was some favourable reviews and much better prices compared to ASUS and Gigabyte. Any alternative boards I should look at that come to mind to you? you need to be looking at the VRM quality, something that is extremely complicated and even places like tomshardware and anadtech don't understand at all (actually I think they intentionally mislead, but that's a different topic). Basically, you just need to put your trust into people who really know what they are talking about and have actually used multiple motherboards and stressed them to extremes with benching. I've used the asrock extreme4, ud3h, ud5h, msi boards, so i can give you info on these boards. People who know what they are talking about, will tell you gigabyte is just king of z77 mid-range boards (asus is better at high end but we're talking $300+ there). Asrock is complete crap on z77, basically, the VRM is so bad that your CPU temps will not be a limiting factor, your motherboard will overheat before your CPU will (provided you got a decent cooler). Overclocking on ivy bridge on ambient cooling (air, water) is completely blocked by temperatures, so if your CPU is under 95*C, you can push higher and higher overclocks - but with a low quality motherboard, your motherboard will get too hot, it will make a whining sound, it will brown and burn your PCB, it will destabilize and cause you to require higher voltage (and therefore more heat) than another board would for the same overclock, it will run inefficiently, and cause lots of problems. Just like with power supplies, you want a decent motherboard, but after a certain point you are just going overkill. It depends on what kind of user you are, but on air cooling an extreme4 will limit moderate overclocks. Not to mention it's just a flimsy, weak piece of crap with terrible build quality and a bad sound chip, bad ram overclocking, etc. Show nested quote +EDIT: Reason I'm not waiting for Haswell is because I'm concerned about pricing of both the new CPU and the alleged DDR4 RAM that it will support. Felt it would take a while before it normalises anyway and games actually start making it more of a necessity. Or is this all unwarranted concern? where do you get your information? Whever you are getting it, stop listening to them. haswell will not be ddr4. And haswell will be priced similarly to ivy bridge, just like IB was priced very similar to SB when it came out. It's definitely an unwarranty concern. However, no one can tell you how haswell will perform, it may be a flop, it may not be, it's a gamble. Based on current information, there is nothing to suggest that haswell is worth holding your breath for though (again, no one can tell you what haswell will be like, it's a gamble, you are betting it will or wont be awesome). Worst case scenario, you can sell your ivy bridge + motherboard for the price you paid for it, as motherboard components keep their value EXTREMELY well, and buy haswell when it comes out with the money. It's really all very fungible, it's almost as liquid as cash. Show nested quote +The extreme 4 isn't always a great motherboard if there are other similarly priced motherboards, but it'll probably be fine. Well, it's actually low enough quality that it won't be fine, but the problem is that not only are there a handful of similarly priced motherboards that are way superior in quality, and similarly priced motherboards like gigabyte D3H boards that are 10 times the quality for the same price, but lower priced boards have superior quality. asrock on z77 is like the chrysler of motherboards, there's just way better choices. Also guy, you should buy an i5-3570k instead of an i7-3770k. If anything, put the extra money towards a 7970. I'm assuming this is for playing bf4 and crysis3 and bioshock, if this is just for starcraft and blizzard/dota games, than you shouldnt buy a GPU more powerful than a $80 gtx 460.
Thanks man, very elaborate and thorough explanations!
Yep I will be getting Bioshock Infinite. Will definitely settle on the i5. Will start keeping an eye out for one of those Gigabyte boards too. (Will be buying in Malaysia, we don't have a nice site like Newegg where you can get everything.)
EDIT: Good point about having back ups on an external instead, will rethink that.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
Based on current information, there is nothing to suggest that haswell is worth holding your breath for though
Well, if improvements in manufacturing process make Haswell reach 5ghz on 1.2-1.3v like the newer ivies and the heat spreader issues are fixed, it doesn't even need the 8% IPC increase or more overclocking features to make a massive dent. It's an "If" though, could just be random good batches that happened to come out at a similar time, at the end of ivies lifespan, but damn, if haswell did 5ghz below 1.3v consistently and had heat spreader issues fixed and had 8% higher IPC as well as the overclocking features it has (semi-unlocked baseclock, seperate uncore etc) then it would be godlike, it doesn't need all of that to be worth getting over ivy, not at all.
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On April 20 2013 05:16 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Based on current information, there is nothing to suggest that haswell is worth holding your breath for though Well, if improvements in manufacturing process make Haswell reach 5ghz on 1.2-1.3v like the newer ivies and the heat spreader issues are fixed, it doesn't even need the 8% IPC increase or more overclocking features to make a massive dent. It's an "If" though, could just be random good batches that happened to come out at a similar time, at the end of ivies lifespan, but damn, if haswell did 5ghz below 1.3v consistently and had heat spreader issues fixed and had 8% higher IPC as well as the overclocking features it has (semi-unlocked baseclock, seperate uncore etc) then it would be godlike, it doesn't need all of that to be worth getting over ivy, not at all.
So for non-overclockers there isnt much to look forward to?
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Well, if improvements in manufacturing process make Haswell reach 5ghz on 1.2-1.3v like the newer ivies and the heat spreader issues are fixed, it doesn't even need the 8% IPC increase or more overclocking features to make a massive dent. It's an "If" though, could just be random good batches that happened to come out at a similar time, at the end of ivies lifespan, but damn, if haswell did 5ghz below 1.3v consistently and had heat spreader issues fixed and had 8% higher IPC as well as the overclocking features it has (semi-unlocked baseclock, seperate uncore etc) then it would be godlike, it doesn't need all of that to be worth getting over ivy, not at all.
Well I think the new, 100% safe delid process really fixes a lot of the concerns about the IHS, and I'm pretty certain that intel will never go back to fluxless solder. I look forward to using a mallet on haswell. It seems to me that 5ghz is really the limit on ambient clocks. Maybe we'll see 5.1, 5.2ghz on some haswell for 24/7 overclocks, but we see that on some ivies too, and i'm not sure 5.2ghz will ever be a common overclock.
I mean we could go all day on if haswell is worth waiting for. To be honest, 6 weeks for haswell is not much of a wait, but then again, it's extremely easy to just sell your ivy bridge and z77 when haswell comes out for what you paid for it, or maybe a $20 loss worst case, and just buy haswell.
Hell, why not just wait until 30 days before haswell comes out, that way you can straight up return your ib+z77 at the store you bought it and get store credit to buy haswell.
So for non-overclockers there isnt much to look forward to?
has there ever been anything non-overclockers looked forward to? Maybe the mobile crowd or the integrated graphics, but sb to ib meant nothing to for non-enthusiasts but was a huge deal for the overclocking community considering it's imc is regularly capable of over 2600mhz on air and how it produced less heat.
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If Z77 boards are quite a bit cheaper, I don't see much of a problem getting them as long as you're not going for an extreme overclock. The mis-reported voltage won't matter as you're more temp limited than voltage limited with a 3570k. I have a 3570k at 4.6ghz with a Hyper 212+ on an AsRock Z77 Pro3. Does the job fine. By far the cheapest Z77, too. Can be got for €75 in the EU during sales.
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Mis-reported voltage is hardly the issue, all boards misreport voltage since they use an averaging algorithm (though asrock notoriously underreports true voltage, but it's hardly a big deal). The problem with the extreme4 is that very moderate overclocks, as in anything above 4.7, 4.8ghz, is going to be tougher to do on the board. It's not an 'extreme overclock', anything within 4.4-5.1 is not anything extreme. But you are never going to hit 5ghz on an asrock extreme4, and it'll be difficult to do 4.8, 4.7. Furthermore, even a very moderate overclock of 4.7 is going to take more voltage, it's going to produce more heat, and it's going to consume way more power out of the wall (granted, a tiny difference, but huge compared to other motherboards).
Now if you got a hyper 212+ on a 3570k that's sort of a bit silly to have such a low end heatsink with such a high end chip, you are never going to get a decent overclock on a hyper 212+ or other low end heatsink unless you have an absolutely golden chip (which, still, it would be silly because you could get much better results on a better cooler). Even if you did have a better cooler, your motherboard is going to overheat way before you can do a decent overclock.
An asrock pro3 is okay for a low end overclock, but it's not going to be able to push more than 4.6. I got a low end board too, i have an msi z77a-g41, but at $20 it was a good value (1/6th the price). The pro3 is 'okay' because it's very cheap, and in similar quality to boards at the same price, but the extreme4 is priced with much higher quality boards like the asus lk/le, all the gigabyte boards, and biostar. And I really don't think the pro3 is cheap enough to justify it's lack of quality, I think a possible 300mhz and all around superior quality and control is worth the extra $50 at the most. You won't have control to reduce PLL, VTT, or IMC voltages either, so it's just degrading your CPU that much more. If your chip is binned poorly, yes, the pro3 may be all that's necessary, but that's a gamble to bet your chip will be crap.
I mean it's very easy to say 'well i have X motherboard and it works fine'. You'd really be surprised in the difference in quality in motherboards once you use a few different boards.
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I don't agree.
Let's look at what we have. We have a Pro3 doing 4.6ghz with a Hyper 212+ (maybe that's too optimistic and I was lucky, let me know if it's overly optimistic). To get anything from 4.6 to 5.0 ghz we need, according to you, a better, more expensive motherboard, a more better, more expensive cooler. So that's a minor performance boost for a bit more than a minor extra investment, in my opinion. We have essentially the cheapest Z77 and a renowned price:performance cooler (modest cooling, very modest price) with a 4.6ghz overclock on a 3570k. What's not to like about that?
I am not arguing that spending more is bad. My main point of contention is your persistent use of "bad" and "terrible" for something that really is, according to you, just an inferior option - something which doesn't necessarily make it bad or terrible.
And you're right, it is easy to cherry-pick my experience and cite it if necessary. As I said, if my situation is highly unusual, let me know.
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Hey guys! This is my first build I am trying to create to run SC2, WoW & Crysis on maximum settings. Here is my setup, please help me to understand what I should improve. Thanks!
[b]-CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz
-MOTHERBOARD- Z77-D3H, Z77X-D3H, or a Z77X-UD3H cannot decide yet.
-PSU- xfx pro 450w
-GPU- gtx 470 or a radoen 7770 yet again, I don't know from the two or if anything else that would be better around the same price.
-RAM- 2x4gb dd3 240 pin ram
-CD ROM- Asus 24xDVD-RW Serial ATA Internal OEM Drive
-CASE- GAMMA Classic Series ATX Mid Tower Interior Steel Chassis
-SYSTEM- Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit (OEM) System Builder
Total Budget: $749
Again, I am trying to find the cheapest route to be able to maximize my gaming experience much as possible!
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On April 20 2013 09:43 Gumbi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't agree.
Let's look at what we have. We have a Pro3 doing 4.6ghz with a Hyper 212+ (maybe that's too optimistic and I was lucky, let me know if it's overly optimistic). To get anything from 4.6 to 5.0 ghz we need, according to you, a better, more expensive motherboard, a more better, more expensive cooler. So that's a minor performance boost for a bit more than a minor extra investment, in my opinion. We have essentially the cheapest Z77 and a renowned price:performance cooler (modest cooling, very modest price) with a 4.6ghz overclock on a 3570k. What's not to like about that?
I am not arguing that spending more is bad. My main point of contention is your persistent use of "bad" and "terrible" for something that really is, according to you, just an inferior option - something which doesn't necessarily make it bad or terrible.
And you're right, it is easy to cherry-pick my experience and cite it if necessary. As I said, if my situation is highly unusual, let me know.
Nah (and I'm paraphrasing heavily and being facetious), he's saying that your e-peen is gonna fall off if you shave off ~$50 on the build costs on motherboard and cooling and end up with a 5-10% lower CPU clock speed than otherwise might well have been possible. Same arguments as before. Nobody could possibly be interested in that kind of overclock.
I'm pretty sure non-deal, non-used, non-Microcenter special kind of prices for the cheap overclocking socket 1155 motherboards like Z75/Z77 Pro3 and Z77A-G41 are pretty similar. Actually G41 might be a bit higher, and the VRM should probably be worse or at least not better. But I agree at Extreme4 prices you might as well get something better than that.
On April 20 2013 06:43 Ata wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 05:16 Cyro wrote:Based on current information, there is nothing to suggest that haswell is worth holding your breath for though Well, if improvements in manufacturing process make Haswell reach 5ghz on 1.2-1.3v like the newer ivies and the heat spreader issues are fixed, it doesn't even need the 8% IPC increase or more overclocking features to make a massive dent. It's an "If" though, could just be random good batches that happened to come out at a similar time, at the end of ivies lifespan, but damn, if haswell did 5ghz below 1.3v consistently and had heat spreader issues fixed and had 8% higher IPC as well as the overclocking features it has (semi-unlocked baseclock, seperate uncore etc) then it would be godlike, it doesn't need all of that to be worth getting over ivy, not at all. So for non-overclockers there isnt much to look forward to?
Supposedly much better battery life on certain low-power mobile platforms due to new features and power states, much better integrated graphics for say mobile or HTPC users, possibly significantly better performance for certain non-legacy code in the future that can really exploit new AVX2 or TSX instructions and features. In terms of performance desktop users, especially those that upgrade regularly, not so much. It's hard to get big IPC improvements from new architectures these days, especially without a huge redesign or very large overhaul (like AMD Steamroller to some extent). A new processor that runs x86 instructions can't all be that much different than another. It does the same things. It's not like Haswell is going to make your breakfast for you.
On April 20 2013 10:24 shandrenas wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey guys! This is my first build I am trying to create to run SC2, WoW & Crysis on maximum settings. Here is my setup, please help me to understand what I should improve. Thanks!
[b]-CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz
-MOTHERBOARD- Z77-D3H, Z77X-D3H, or a Z77X-UD3H cannot decide yet.
-PSU- xfx pro 450w
-GPU- gtx 470 or a radoen 7770 yet again, I don't know from the two or if anything else that would be better around the same price.
-RAM- 2x4gb dd3 240 pin ram
-CD ROM- Asus 24xDVD-RW Serial ATA Internal OEM Drive
-CASE- GAMMA Classic Series ATX Mid Tower Interior Steel Chassis
-SYSTEM- Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit (OEM) System Builder
Total Budget: $749
Again, I am trying to find the cheapest route to be able to maximize my gaming experience much as possible!
Screen resolution was?
Is that 749 USD? Bought from where? I already posted some thoughts on 7770 vs. 470, but that's really a very odd choice to be making in the first place. Are there not alternatives that exist?
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Myrmidon my screen resolution is 1440x900 & yes it's USD from amazon.
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On April 20 2013 10:24 shandrenas wrote:
Hey guys! This is my first build I am trying to create to run SC2, WoW & Crysis on maximum settings. Here is my setup, please help me to understand what I should improve. Thanks!
-CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz
-MOTHERBOARD- Z77-D3H, Z77X-D3H, or a Z77X-UD3H cannot decide yet.
-PSU- xfx pro 450w
-GPU- gtx 470 or a radoen 7770 yet again, I don't know from the two or if anything else that would be better around the same price.
-RAM- 2x4gb dd3 240 pin ram
-CD ROM- Asus 24xDVD-RW Serial ATA Internal OEM Drive
-CASE- GAMMA Classic Series ATX Mid Tower Interior Steel Chassis
-SYSTEM- Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit (OEM) System Builder
Total Budget: $749
Again, I am trying to find the cheapest route to be able to maximize my gaming experience much as possible!
You're missing a cpu cooler for starters (assuming you want to overclock), and if you're not you can get a cheap b75 + 3570, and put the savings towards a better gpu. You'll want the beefiest gpu you can get for crysis games, the fastest overclocked cpu you can get for sc2, and probably just the fastest ssd you can get for wow (less important), so you've gotta compromise somewhere ^^.
[B]On April 20 2013 10:40 Myrmidon wrote:
It's not like Haswell is going to make your breakfast for you.
Aww, that would be nice  .
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I want to check my build with people who know this stuff well.^^ Make sure everything goes together well. I would appreciate ANY comments you have about any of the parts or the build as a whole. I know the basics of putting a computer together but not enough to be a confident shopper. Also, this will be my first time to actually build the computer with all the parts. Any tips regarding that would be helpful as well!
Case
$65 - ZALMAN ZM-Z9 U3 Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Monitor
$130 - Acer G236HLBbd Black 23" 5ms Widescreen LED Monitor
Video Card
$130 - GIGABYTE GV-N650OC-2GI GeForce GTX 650 2GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
Power Supply
$80 - CORSAIR CX600M 600W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
**I've heard 500W is enough for my current setup but I'm thinking of adding a second video card in the future so I think it's ok.
Storage
$250 - SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
COMBO $350 - CPU, MOBO, and RAM
($220) Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K
**I have no idea how to overclock this, but it's supposed to be overclocked because it's the "K" series, right?
($110) ASRock Z77 Extreme4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
($60) CORSAIR XMS 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX8GX3M1A1600C11
**Just one stick is OK?
I will be buying this ASAP from Newegg.
My budget is around $1000 USD and this build is about that much. I'm hoping this computer can last for the next 5 years (what can I expect to have to upgrade within those 5 years?).
I'm using this for mainly SC2 and watching videos/movies. I want to play at max settings smoothly while also browsing/internet radio/youtube videos.
I already have a DVD drive, a 1TB external HDD, keyboard, and mouse.
Thanks in advance!^^
You can PM me if you want^^
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Actually there's some very good heatsink sales going on, they just aren't conventional:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1367897/pc-cooling-sale-round-up/0_100
http://www.frys.com/product/7558026
Frys - Zalman CNPS11X
It's a lower mid-range cooler, for $29AR it basically performs the same as your h50, your havik 120. $29 is a very fair price for it. It's not an awesome deal, but it's a good one, if you really can't wait on a heatsink.
Let's look at what we have. We have a Pro3 doing 4.6ghz with a Hyper 212+ (maybe that's too optimistic and I was lucky, let me know if it's overly optimistic). To get anything from 4.6 to 5.0 ghz we need, according to you, a better, more expensive motherboard, a more better, more expensive cooler. So that's a minor performance boost for a bit more than a minor extra investment, in my opinion. We have essentially the cheapest Z77 and a renowned priceerformance cooler (modest cooling, very modest price) with a 4.6ghz overclock on a 3570k. What's not to like about that?
No, that sounds right, but you aren't going to hit 5ghz. I think a fair rule of thumb is to say that 100mhz on Ivy Bridge is worth $20-30 (for athlon/phenom, it seemed to be $10 per 100mhz, some chips were priced right some weren't but all were around that for performance). So let's say an extra 300mhz motherboard, well, that's $60 on the low side. For only $60 more than the Pro3, you can definitely afford a very good quality motherboard. Actually for much less than that, you can.
I paid $79 for my Z77X-UD5H, which is worth about $180-200, but that was microcenter and far from the norm (i traded my ud3h in and they gave me $30). But you can find the Z77-D3H and Z77X-D3H and even UD3H for under $140. You can find some asus boards like the LX, LK, and LE all for well under $140. You can find lots of biostar boards for cheap, the high quality TZ77XE4 is only around $90.
While the Pro3 is capable of a basic overclock, and it's true it's not worth paying the world for a 4.8-5ghz overclock, the Pro3 simly isn't cheap enough to justify it, in my opinion. Like I said, I bought a terrible quality motherboard, I bought an MSI Z77A-G41, which is actually lower quality then the Pro3, but I paid $20 for it while the Pro3 at it's cheapest was like 64?
The pro4 right now is $59 at microcenter, but even at $59 I really don't think it's justified. I mean it's close, but I don't think it's a low enough price.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1271002/asrock-z77-vrm-phase-cooling-badly-needed
I would literally recommend a p67/z68 asrock before z77. Asrock used to have extremely high quality boards for super cheap. Just they decided to cheap out on z77. On p67/z68 they dominated, they had super high quality boards for super cheap.
I haven't discussed cooling because there are more benefits to cooling than reaching a higher overclock - longer cpu life (which isn't really an issue with ivy bridge, granted), lower power consumption, more stable overclocks. So let's say because of those benefits, we half price differentials, that means a high end cooler over a low end cooler is $40/2 = $20 difference, which I think is worth it for a high end overclock.
Now granted you might have a crappy chip, and you just can't do more than 4.6ghz like 50% of ivies and sandies. And in that case, it's fine to have a pro3. But you won't know if you have a bad chip until you get it, and even if you do have a bad chip, having a bad board means you'll struggle to hit even a low end overclock.
For example, I have had 4 ivy bridges. One of them was 4.6ghz@1.42v - there is no way a pro3 will be able to handle 1.42v will overheating. My other chip did 4.5ghz@1.4v, it was even worse - again, no way would the pro3 handle that. In fact, my MSI Z77A-G41 was getting coil whine and overheating at just 4.4ghz@1.3v, it was that low quality. Because my MSI Z77A-G41 was so crappy, I had to actually go with a 4.4ghz overclock at 1.33v, the same overclock actually required only 1.28v on my gigabyte.
You might say your Pro3 is fine, but put your ear up to it when running a stress test, touch the back of your motherboard or the mosfets and see if you can hold your finger more than 3 seconds. You probably won't be able to, because your VRM is getting so hot that it's degrading, that it's damaging the PCB, that it's life expectancy is being reduced because it's so hot, that is' running extremely inefficiently and running up your power bill (not a huge deal, granted, but still, one of many issues), the board will die in 3-5 years, you need a higher voltage to be stable and thus degrade your chip quicker. I've used a board with d-paks and no low rds on, believe me, i know exactly how a pro3 runs. It's not a good motherboard, you might think it's good enough, but it isn't.
There's a reason people buy higher quality motherboards. And god forbid you actually enjoy overclocking, you'll just be miserable! Some of us don't want to have to fight the motherboard for a basic overclock.
Price is everything. At the right price, the Pro3 can go from terrible to f'ing awesome. I'd judge that price to really be around $30-50, not 80-90. Why get the pro3 when for less than $50 more you can basically get a motherboard capable of pushing the most extreme settings, and has every option, and superior build quality, it'll last much longer, have way better sound. I mean right now the Pro4 is only $59 at microcenter. Which is a decent price for it. I'm all for value but generally the Pro3 at $80+ is not a great value.
I spent $79 on my Z77X-UD5H, but let's say I bought a tz77xe4, z77-d3h, or asus LK to be fair, and that I paid $110 for it instead. Then I paid $45 for my nh-d14, which I think is a fairly common price for a high end heatsink (zalman lq320 was $39 for like 2 months, performancepcs had the assassin for $50 shipped, cnpsmax was like $39 recently, you can find h100s and nh-d14s and whatever for $50-60 regularly). The going rate for the Pro3, about $80, lets say $70. So $40 mobo, than $25 heatsink.
So let's say I paid $65 to have an extra 400mhz on you. For $20 per 100mhz, I definitely paid a way better value than you did. Not to mention my motherboard looks much better, it's much more solid quality, I'm supplying a more stable voltage, I'm running much more efficiently so there's got to be a few bucks per mhz less that I'm spending than you are per month, and because I dont find overclocking a miserable chore, I enjoy it a little more, with access to more options and an easier to work with set-up (not talking about nice bios, im talking about options and accessibility).
Even if I paid more than $80 for my high quality motherboard and heatsink than you did, it's certainly worth an extra $20 for a board that's just way more solid, better sound, is capable of SLI and Crossfire, has more SATA and USB connections (okay maybe not for that, who uses more than 1 drive?), has a way better i/o... I mean I'm the guy who seriously considered buying a used p67 motherboard for a fresh ivy bridge build, I'm all for stretching the last dollar, and I'd be all over the pro3 if it was cheaper, but it's not.
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On April 20 2013 10:24 shandrenas wrote:
Hey guys! This is my first build I am trying to create to run SC2, WoW & Crysis on maximum settings. Here is my setup, please help me to understand what I should improve. Thanks!
-CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz
-MOTHERBOARD- Z77-D3H, Z77X-D3H, or a Z77X-UD3H cannot decide yet.
-PSU- xfx pro 450w
-GPU- gtx 470 or a radoen 7770 yet again, I don't know from the two or if anything else that would be better around the same price.
-RAM- 2x4gb dd3 240 pin ram
-CD ROM- Asus 24xDVD-RW Serial ATA Internal OEM Drive
-CASE- GAMMA Classic Series ATX Mid Tower Interior Steel Chassis
-SYSTEM- Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit (OEM) System Builder
Total Budget: $749
Again, I am trying to find the cheapest route to be able to maximize my gaming experience much as possible!
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It looks pretty good, you clearly read my posts lol. Do you live by microcenter? Prices will totally determine which of those 3 for a motherboard you get, frankly, as they are all good quality and basically the same (different VRM, and SLI capability, but all have very good VRM, and the UD version has some very nice overclocking features like cmos reset buttons).
be aware the xfx pro450w has only a single pci-e cable. It's not a big deal, you can use a 2molex-pci adaptor or a pci-2way pci adaptor, but just be aware.
right now newegg has as 10% off on ram.
Don't get the gamma, it's an outdated case, even at $24 I wouldn't recommend it. It was great 4 years ago, it's not great anymore. Get the nzxt source instead, it's basically gamma 2.0. I've owned both, I'm a loyal nzxt fan and the source is way better.
470 > 7770 in terms of power, and value at most places. If you want to max crysis than you might want to try to fit a 7950 in your budget. You would have to cut your budget to a cx430 psu... maybe that gamma instead of source, maybe get only a single 4gb stick of ram instead of 2x4 since you dont really need 8gb of ram unless you go dual monitor so you can hold it off, dont buy a cd drive until the future (do you really need a cd drive? who uses cds?), maybe flying the skull and bones for an OS.
what about storage? go with a 830 128gb? and you'll need a heatsink... ill hold off on a heatsink for the moment until a special comes.
if you are trying to 'go the cheapest route to maximize my gaming experience' then no brainer - z77-d3h, only 4gb of ram, cx430, 7950, i5-3570k, gamma (i really feel uncomfortable recommending the gamma even at $29AR), no cd drive...
This goes to everyone here, but if you are bulding a computer or int he market for parts, you should live on this page:
http://www.overclock.net/f/327/online-deals
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EPT
