EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 144
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caarvid
Sweden3 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On January 21 2011 14:03 Flameberger wrote: So a friend told me that graphics cards run better if the motherboard is by the same company (like Radeon gpu with an AMD motherboard), is there any truth in this? In any case, I've never heard of any reliable source indicating that was true. At a low level, both AMD and Nvidia GPUs are interfaced through the same standard PCI-E. They are both sent instructions via CPUs with the x86 instruction set, with graphics drivers built on Windows, which runs over those instructions. There's always a possibility for every conspiracy theory to be true, but I've never heard any benchmarking review or whatever remarking about this (if it was legit, it'd be definitely worth mentioning). On January 21 2011 20:52 Silentness wrote: Cliff notes version: Can't I just buy a better single GPU instead of going for two cheaper GPUs for a computer build? I don't trust SLI/Crossfire for Blizzard games. I think those people are looking at games other than Blizzard games or are just planning ahead for some future upgrade (get one card now, one later). With the proper SLI/Crossfire configuration, two GPUs can often provide (somewhat significantly) higher performance than a single GPU of the same price as the two combined. But the dual-GPU solution usually would require a higher-end motherboard, maybe a higher-end PSU, maybe a higher-end case or more care taken in considering airflow, etc...not to mention what happens for games without great SLI/Crossfire support and the occasional glitch. Considering those additional costs and issues, I wouldn't think it's worth it unless you're playing non-Blizzard games at resolutions higher than 1920x1200. So yes, you can just get the single higher-end GPU. FYI, UEFI isn't just about the interface. There are other benefits, though you may not care about those either. On January 22 2011 05:46 Rejuvenation wrote: I am debating on getting the i5-2500k or the i7-2600k. First off the price difference is around 100$ CAD. So i checked the specs and the only difference i found is he i7 has .1 GHZ of operating frequency and 2 mb of L3 cache more. Also the i7 supports hyper threading. I'm not too familiar with these therms, but is it really worth the 100 bucks? If somebody could explain me what these specs actually do would be very appreciated. + Show Spoiler [about L3 cache] + Reading and writing to RAM is a lot faster than reading and writing to a hard drive, right? However, access to RAM still takes a lot of time compared to how fast CPUs run. L3 cache (and other cache on the CPU die) is used to store commonly-accessed data of some type, because it can be accessed faster than RAM. There's a whole lot less of it than RAM, since it's more expensive, in some sense. If the CPU needs to grab some data to work on, and the data is in the L3 cache, then it can just read it from cache. If the data was not in cache, it'd have to wait for RAM to be accessed, which takes longer. So more cache just reduces the likelihood that the CPU needs to wait on RAM access to get the data it needs. 6 MB L3 cache vs. 8 MB L3 cache should have a pretty small impact. It depends on where the data is, of course, which depends on what applications you're running. + Show Spoiler [about hyperthreading] + Hyperthreading just means that each physical CPU core is presenting two virtual cores to the operating system. This can only be done if the cores are designed (hardware) to support this feature. Essentially, part of the front end of the core is duplicated, so there are two units (one for each virtual core) that are keeping track of the state of the system. However, the actual execution units are not duplicated. The front ends need to take turns sending instructions to the execution units. The advantage is that if the execution unit is waiting around with nothing to do running the first front end's task (e.g. data was not in cache, so waiting on RAM access; or waiting on some instruction elsewhere to produce data, etc.), the second front end can give it some useful work to do instead. This means that if the CPU has a lot of parallelized instructions to run, it can run them more efficiently because it's spending less time waiting around. If you have 4 cores with hyperthreading and never really have any more than 4 instructions to run simultaneously, there's no benefit to hyperthreading. When running certain applications that can present very parallelized workloads, hyperthreading may boost the performance some 15-25%. e.g. if you're processing an image (video) or unzipping a file, one (virtual) core can work on one part of the image, another can work on another part, and so on. There is a decent amount of independence between instructions that need to be run. Most games like SC2 are not parallelized that well or so easily, so there's no advantage to having hyperthreading. You can check the benchmarks to see the real-world consequences of these differences. For most people, they're clearly not worth the $100 difference. If you're maxing out your CPU all the time with workloads that take advantage of hyperthreading and/or are a professional user that $100 does not matter to, it may be worth getting the i7-2600(k). On January 22 2011 07:25 caarvid wrote: Hey, I'm thinking of buying a new computer and this is the current choice: GPU: AMD Athlon II x3 450 3.2ghz Graphic: GainWard GeForce GTX 460 1GB 4GB RAM Windows 7 Going to be playing on a 1920x1080 screen.. What settings should that setup handle? Can it go up to ultra? Yes, it'll run ultra, but you'll have some fps drops in large battles (particularly larger than 1v1) because the CPU isn't fast enough to keep up with all the units. | ||
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Aduromors
United States279 Posts
On January 22 2011 07:33 Myrmidon wrote: With the proper SLI/Crossfire configuration, two GPUs can often provide (somewhat significantly) higher performance than a single GPU of the same price as the two combined. Utterly misleading. Yes, it's true that if you get a dual 6850 or 460 1gb setup it'll technically be faster than a gtx480 at a slightly lower price, but what this doesn't mean is that 3 years from now you'll be able to get a second 460 at a reasonable price (GL with that after they've been discontinued) and end up with a GPU setup that beats whatever mid-range new single GPUs are out at that point. 9 times out of 10 you'd be better off buying a brand new GPU instead of wasting your time trying to augment your existing one Don't try to future proof through SLI/crossfire. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
But now you need a better psu, a compatible motherboard, maybe a better case because it's alot more heat. The performance isn't so promised anyways, without dedicated profiles it's more of a gambit of performance sure you may get 10% better in one game but you might get 20% worse in another. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
It's maybe for people playing the latest games at very high settings and resolutions or those who can't spend the money now but want a boost in performance (with some effort) in a few months when the money is available. Trying to future proof 2-3 years down the line with a upgrade path like that is not worth it. | ||
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Sero
United States692 Posts
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=13226851 I'll be buying a monitor as well, but I haven't picked one out yet (probably something around $200). | ||
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.Aar
2177 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Budget: Flexible Resolution: 1440x900 Use: Gaming and.. that's it. Maybe some streaming / video editing etc, but I don't do any of that now and I'm not too sure I ever will. Upgrade cycle: 2 or 3 years When: Flexible; preferably soon as it's annoying to share computers Overclocking: No, I don't really want to mess with that. OS: Windows Second GPU: I don't even know what that means. Where: There's a Fry's nearby? I am an utter noob. I just need a desktop computer for gaming at home. Really the only requirements would be SC2 on High graphics setting, and I plan on getting two monitors for the sole purpose of being badass. Suggestions? | ||
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Born)Slippy
Norway1904 Posts
On January 21 2011 10:14 Myrmidon wrote: @Born)Slippy: I think the "barebones" systems usually have all the parts installed and would thus be a "complete system." One thing you'll have to decide on is size. The cases that only take mini ITX motherboards are quite a bit smaller than those that take microATX motherboards. The smaller boxes just have less room to add stuff, or maybe they'll only take laptop-size HDDs, or something like that. You're referring to Zotac prebuilt HTPCs with AMD's Fusion, specifically the Brazos platform (Zacate in particular I think). AMD Fusion just refers to AMD's whole lineup of CPUs with integrated Radeon GPUs. The first such CPU/GPU combos were released only a couple of weeks ago. Some laptops can be found with it already, but I don't know if Zotac or anybody else has a HTPC with one yet. The Brazos platform is not particularly special or worth worrying about. It's just doesn't use much power and is fairly cheap, with acceptable CPU and GPU performance for a low-cost laptop or HTPC. It certainly beats Intel Atom and other low-power, low-cost GPU solutions. But you can get the performance you want out of other parts. MiniITX is def the plan. We wanted to go with a Sandy Brigde build (he's an engineer so we figured giving him grown-up Lego could be nice), but it doesn't look like the parts are gonna come out in time. Something small and sexy is the focus. About Zacate, yes, you're right, sorry for being imprecise. We wouldn't consider buying it if Zotac didn't offer an awesome build, but they do, so.... Anyway, thanks for your reply  | ||
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Silentness
United States2821 Posts
On January 22 2011 06:44 KOFgokuon wrote: You can do what you want. They aren't necessary, but personally I hate micro atx boards because they're so damn small that you never know if your gpu is going to cover your SATA slots, or if you buy an additional cooler, your fans and heat sink might cover your ram slots. People don't necessarily buy the boards so that they can do crossfire or SLI, sometimes it's just nicer to have the extra room on your board. Plus, micro boards tend to have fewer PCI slots as well. Oh yeah I agree, I'm definitely not a fan of micro ATX boards. I'm not getting the micro version of Gigabyte UD3 though I was going to get the regular one. I heard the UD3's cpu socket is really close to the RAM so SCREW that. I plan on using a Noctua nh-d14 fan to cool off my CPU and we all know how huge that friggin fan is so imagine having that assaulting your RAM sticks because the UD3 board idiotically put the CPU socket so close to the RAM. With that said I'm 99% sure I'm getting the Asus p8p67 vanilla I think I don't really need Asus pro even though it comes with free shipping and the vanilla comes with $8 shipping (fail >,< ) | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On January 22 2011 23:07 Silentness wrote: Oh yeah I agree, I'm definitely not a fan of micro ATX boards. I'm not getting the micro version of Gigabyte UD3 though I was going to get the regular one. I heard the UD3's cpu socket is really close to the RAM so SCREW that. I plan on using a Noctua nh-d14 fan to cool off my CPU and we all know how huge that friggin fan is so imagine having that assaulting your RAM sticks because the UD3 board idiotically put the CPU socket so close to the RAM. With that said I'm 99% sure I'm getting the Asus p8p67 vanilla I think I don't really need Asus pro even though it comes with free shipping and the vanilla comes with $8 shipping (fail >,< ) It's not gigabyte's design that makes the cpu socket close to the ram, it's Intel's design. The problem of tall ram heatspreaders not being able to fit in A1 slot is universal throughout all the P67 boards. | ||
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caarvid
Sweden3 Posts
AMD Athlon II x4 640 3GHz or AMD Phenom II x2 560 Black edition 3.3GHz? | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On January 22 2011 23:57 skyR wrote: It's not gigabyte's design that makes the cpu socket close to the ram, it's Intel's design. The problem of tall ram heatspreaders not being able to fit in A1 slot is universal throughout all the P67 boards. He's not completely wrong, Gigabyte really did shift the RAM slots closer to the CPU socket in earlier designs (X58A, some AM3 boards). Its especially evident if you compare their boards with Asus boards - there's generally around a RAM slot width difference between the two. Not sure if Gigabyte did the same thing here though with their P67 boards but I wouldn't put it past them since it (theoretically) works well with the Intel stock cooler and similar downdraft CPU + component cooling designs that most people use. | ||
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miL.
Canada93 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + What is your budget? Preferrably ~$1000 What is your resolution? I'm not going to even answer this question, seeing as the only reason why I play at the resolution I do now is because I'm limited by my graphics card. If I could go higher, I would love to. What are you using it for? Mostly gaming. I do Photoshop every once in a while but I don't need a computer designed for hyperthreading (I think thats the correct term?) as I have been content using Photoshop on this old 2006 piece of junk. I'm hoping/expecting this computer to be able to handle any games that get put onto the market within the next 3/4 years with no problems (NOTE: I don't mind playing games on low settings... I'm quite content playing SC2 on lowest settings on every aspect right now). What is your upgrade cycle? I usually upgrade once every ~4 years, so I would expect this new build to last me at least 3. When do you plan on building it? ASAP. My current desktop is giving me a headache with how many problems are arising with it lately. Do you plan on overclocking? I don't even know what this means, or what the consequences/benefits of this are. I'm going to say no here. Do you need an Operating System? I do need a operating system, but I can get it for really cheap from my University, so don't take this into account when looking at my budget. Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? It would be nice to have the option to do this, but I don't think I would ever utilize it. Where are you buying your parts from? I'm open to buying the parts from anywhere, although I do prefer somewhere where they will build the computer for me... seeing as I have no idea how to put a computer together. It would be bonus if you guys could use Memory Express as it is a local shop that is about 10 minutes away from my house. I've been lurking the forums (and www.anandtech.com forums) for a while trying to decide what to make for myself, but can't come to a conclusion because I don't know what fits in what, so to speak. So far I've come up with: + Show Spoiler + Case: ? Processor: Core™ i5-2500K Processor, 3.30GHz w/ 6MB Cache - $219.99 Mobo: P8P67 PRO w/ DualDDR3 1600, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan, 1394, Bluetooth, CrossFireX /SLI -- $189.99 RAM:Vengeance 8GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 Dual Channel Kit (2 x 4GB) - $139.99 (this pick was completely random, I have no idea what I'm looking for here beyond the GB amount) HDD:1TB Barracuda 7200.12 SATA II w/ 32MB Cache - $55.99 SSD: I would like one if my budget allows for it, but it's not a necessity if spending money here would take away from other parts. GPU: SAPPHIRE 100281-3SR Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ Eyefinity - $200.00 Optical Drive: 24x DVD-RW Drive, SATA w/ LightScribe, Black, OEM - $29.99(don't need anything fancy here, just something that works) PSU: EarthWatts EA 750W Power Supply w/ Quad +12V - 119.99 (Again, no idea what I'm looking for here beyond the wattage) Overall, this build would cost me $995.94, which is pretty darn close to my budget (even though I haven't chosen a case...). My budget is only roughly $1000. I can go higher if needed. All of these prices are taken off the Memory Express website, although I'm open to other options if it will get me a better bang for my buck. The GPU selection/price is based on a sale/promo code I found for newegg.com. I would prefer the company to assemble the computer for me, if I use Memory Express its $40. I don't need any peripherals (just bought a new mouse and keyboard last month), but maybe a new monitor... I heard somewhere that a strong gpu could kill a monitor by being too strong (although this sounds completely absurd to me). Also, this comment doesn't really fit into anywhere else but I want the new computer to be silent. I absolutely hate hearing a loud computer. Any and all input/help would be greatly appreciated . | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31671(ME).aspx Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3 -- another LGA 1155 board is fine as long as it has all the ports/connectors you need; this one is just a little on sale http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX31706(ME).aspx HIS HD 6850 -- this GPU is pretty quiet, definitely more quiet than most HD 5870; this card already has overkill performance if you're fine playing future games on lowish settings http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX30921(ME).aspx Corsair 2 x 2GB DDR3 RAM http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX30153(ME).aspx Corsair Force 60GB -- SSDs are silent; this is a good one...note that you may want a adapter so it can fit in a 3.5" drive bay http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX29543(ME).aspx WD Caviar Green (1TB or 2TB) -- these are fairly quiet hard drives http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX27815(ME).aspx http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX27165(ME).aspx Samsung generic CD/DVD drive http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX26870(ME).aspx Antec Sonata III with Earthwatts 500W -- the case is quiet for a budget unit, and it has a decent PSU (not extremely quiet but quiet at the loads you'll be putting it on) http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX17509(ME).aspx | ||
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miL.
Canada93 Posts
I picked the i5-2500k because according to www.anandtech.com 's benchmarks, it is the 2nd best CPU on the market (behind the i7 version), and it's only $20 less than the CPU that you have chosen. I also opted for the asus P67 after skimming through this. It recommends the asus over the gigabyte (although I suppose if its not that big if a difference, the $70 difference helps). Also... I prefer to be able to play games on highish settings, but I won't be too upset if I can't. Does this statement change your GPU recommendation at all? Not that I'm doubting you, but is 500W actually enough to power this setup? I'm a bit weary on the PSU now because of recent issues with my current computer, and people have said that it is probably my PSU is too low. I never want to come across this issue again. Thanks. | ||
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holdthephone
United States523 Posts
Budget: $600 max Resolution: 1280x1024 Use: WoW, LoL, SC2 -- nothing more (WoW on high, LoL&SC2 just medium). Being able to upgrade in the future is important to me though. Upgrade Cycle: I won't require an upgrade for 2 years. When I need it: ASAP, I cannot live like this. Overclocking: No OS system: Don't need. GPU/SLI/Crossfire: Nope Shopping: Online, probably newegg or tigerdirect. I've never built before but if I can stay away from spending $600 OR spend $600 to get something infinitely better, I'll do what I have to. The thing is, this acer laptop is 100% everything I could ask for and more, and it's going for $600 right now (free shipping, no tax). But I feel that I could get better going desktop, and that buying a laptop for heavy gaming is asking for a short life span. Would really appreciate any feedback. Thanks. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On January 23 2011 09:31 Myrmidon wrote: Corsair Force 60GB -- SSDs are silent; this is a good one...note that you may want a adapter so it can fit in a 3.5" drive bay http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX29543(ME).aspx $140 for 60gb, lol ... dont really need that anyways. he does need a new monitor though: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX28585(ME).aspx | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
HD 6850 is decent step below the older HD 5870, but it's still enough to play most recent games on high to max settings. There are a lot of people (not saying you) that grossly overestimate power requirements for a number of reasons. (Decent) power supplies like the Earthwatts are rated in terms of continuous DC power they can output. Look here for an example of how much power a high-end computer uses. It has an older quad core that takes more power than an i5-2xxx and two graphics cards that each take somewhat more power than a HD 6850. Idle power consumption for those parts would be a lot higher than your parts too. The whole system doesn't even take more than 455W when he's trying to max out power consumption. As you can see, power consumption is also significantly lower while gaming than the max possible. With a HD 6850, you'd probably use no more than 250W while maxed out. I'd agree that the SSD expense is a little high, but it's helpful in various ways and also definitely quieter than a typical 3.5" drive while seeking. edit: pricematch or just get here for a slightly better price | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On January 23 2011 09:57 holdthephone wrote: In desperation to save money here. My laptop is dead and I'm looking into building a desktop instead of paying $600 for a new laptop (granted, it's a pretty good deal). My criteria: Budget: $600 max Resolution: 1280x1024 Use: WoW, LoL, SC2 -- nothing more (WoW on high, LoL&SC2 just medium). Being able to upgrade in the future is important to me though. Upgrade Cycle: I won't require an upgrade for 2 years. When I need it: ASAP, I cannot live like this. Overclocking: No OS system: Don't need. GPU/SLI/Crossfire: Nope Shopping: Online, probably newegg or tigerdirect. I've never built before but if I can stay away from spending $600 OR spend $600 to get something infinitely better, I'll do what I have to. The thing is, this acer laptop is 100% everything I could ask for and more, and it's going for $600 right now (free shipping, no tax). But I feel that I could get better going desktop, and that buying a laptop for heavy gaming is asking for a short life span. Would really appreciate any feedback. Thanks. that's definitely not a bad price at all for that laptop. the issue you're looking at with 'future upgradability', the desktop will cost a bit over $600, plus tax+shipping. on the other hand, the desktop i've configured will blow the laptop performance out of the water. also, you're really only looking at a new monitor ($150-200) down the road. + Show Spoiler + case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 hdd: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152244 graphics: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102908 power supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094 memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161279 cpu+mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.575908 $662 | ||
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