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On November 21 2012 04:29 Belial88 wrote:
Your CPU is really, really strong, you'd have to spend a lot of money just to upgrade to something equal in performance, because it's so strong. Your GPU isn't as great as your CPU but it still should be plenty powerful. Your system as it is should be crushing any video game, and then be able to play another instance of it.
4GB is ideal, you shouldn't really need more than 4GB, but RAM is so cheap so 8GB is whatever. You could monitor your own RAM usage and know right away whether you ever go above your physical memory limit in your applications.
Not to treat you like an idiot but are you sure your drivers are up to date? My point is that it's definitely not a hardware issue (unless you have bad equipment, which is entirely possible), it's a software issue why you are crashing. Drivers, the game in question... What games are you crashing in? I mean, having to run in single-gpu and crashes like that don't come because your graphics card is too weak, it comes from bad equipment (not just gpu, could be ram, cpu, or imc), unstable overclocks/system settings, bad drivers, bad software...
I have tried updating to the newest drivers many times but it usually just makes things more unstable. I have read around about my card and it does appear to be just me that has this problem. I'm using an older driver which has been stable for me so far. Usually when I use other drivers I'll occasionally get things such as the driver has stopped responding or my entire screen and sound will just freeze until I restart. Could very possibly be something I'm doing wrong but I have no idea what that is and I've tried to read around to no avail.
As far as my cpu, I figured it was pretty good, especially after I overclocked it. I still get slight stuttering in games though when I stream and it doesn't feel quite smooth although it's not terrible. From what I've read xsplit is pretty reliant on your cpu, no?
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I figured you did that. What games is this occuring in?
Try stress testing your card real quick at stock settings, just run 5 minutes of any gpu utility (furmark, occt error test is my preference, kombostor, they all work fine). I had a lot of problems similiar to what you were having - driver constantly crashing, game crashing, really poor performance, and it was because my GPU was a lemon and had to be downclocked to less than half it's stock clock. I got it RMA'd and now it works perfectly at over 30% of an overclock.
Obviously, your problem might be different, but you aren't really giving us enough information to help us help you. Your CPU is far from 'pretty good', it's fucking ridiculously good. It's not even meant for general computer usage, it's not even meant for gaming, it's an entry-level server chip. It's got a passmark of literally over 9000. It's nearly double the strength of the best phenom ii, which is more than powerful enough to play video games (as bad as amd may be).
xsplit is definitely reliant on your cpu but a 920 is overkill, even for streaming hd. If your stream isn't feeling smooth, it's beacuse of user-error, upload, software issues, or malfunctioning hardware, NOT because you dont have enough power. I assure you, an SR-71 blackbird will fly be able to fly across town just fine, if there's problems with the flight, it's not because the sr-71 isn't strong enough to fly across town, it's because your landing gears are still down or the weather is bad.
Could you link me to a vod of your stream in a general session? I know this is a bit off tangent, but streaming has a lot to do with the settings. You'd really have to tell your xsplit settings or post a debug log. I haven't streamed in a month so I can't provide evidence at the moment (damn twitch deleting vods), but with an Athlon II (which is literally about 1/4th the power of your 920) and 2k/2k vbv buffer, I was able to stream 720p@45fps with 30+ minimum fps. Ultra graphics, too (which makes no difference in streaming, it's entirely your gpu and gpu isnt used for streaming, gtx 460), with a webcam and mic.
You should try troubleshooting. Try streaming at 480p at just really low settings, really low screen resolution, low upload, on windowed mode and screen region scene. If you still feel unsmooth, then you can tell it's definitely not a hardware issue, but an issue with settings or upload, which I'm pretty sure it is. There's certain settings that seem innocuous enough that can huge problems for streaming.
I don't know what your problem is, but your CPU is more than powerful enough to stream. Now no one is going to recommend to stream off an athlon ii x4 like I was doing, but a phenom ii or i3, even i5, is going to be more than powerful enough to stream HD. Your cpu is just absurdly powerful, it should have no problems with anything, ever. Your GPU isn't as ridiculous as your CPU (kind of weird that you have this amazing CPU and just a decent gpu, but whatever), but it still should be plenty powerful.
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Hey guys. Please recommend me 2 configurations, for 550, respectively 750 bucks, maybe something in between them. We'll have Black Friday in our stores, too, but I don't really know how low the prices will get, if at all, and for what particular parts, so I'd like to have options to choose from.
I'm planning on also getting a new 21'' monitor, and that probably matters. I'll use it for gaming, mostly, and browsing. I'd like to be able to play all the recent games like Assassin's creed 3 (actually no game from that series can run on my old pc) and hitman absolution at a reasonable fps for that price.
Don't count the OS in the price.
Also, no bundles. I'm buying from a romanian vendor and the greedy bastards haven't heard of those.
750 is the extreme upper limit.I'd prefer something a bit lower if possible. Any more and I'll have to starve for a week to buy it.
Sadly, I can't know what the prices will be on friday. Some parts will get a bigger reduction than others, making a more expensive configuration a lot more cost efficient, maybe I'll even be able to buy a system that now costs 800 for less than 700(it's not unheard of). This complicates matters a lot
Still, I appreciate any help you can give me, TL
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I need a new computer, its time i went from a Phenom I to something else....
Hopefully I'll get some good deals with the upcoming black friday/cyber monday deals
What is your budget?
Max $800
What is your resolution?
Well I need a new monitor so 1920 * 1080
What are you using it for?
Mostly games, but I'll also video encode etc.
What is your upgrade cycle?
2 years
When do you plan on building it?
This weekend
Do you plan on overclocking?
If the budget allows it
Do you need an Operating System?
Yes
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
No
Where are you buying your parts from?
In Canada so NCIX and other online retailers
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On November 21 2012 05:12 Belial88 wrote:
I figured you did that. What games is this occuring in?
Now that you mention it, my stream is actually perfectly in Starcraft 2(even in 1080p 30fps), but World of Warcraft is where I get the stuttering. Newer games that came out like Tera my frame rate also just takes a gigantic dive to where its almost unplayable even at 720p.
I'll test my graphic card in a few minutes and let you know the results as well.
I also don't have any vods of any other games and meanwhile my upload is 0.8, as I just moved not too long ago, which is getting changed in the near future
edit: I also said "does appear to just be me" earlier, but I meant "does not appear"
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On November 21 2012 02:09 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 21:56 jacosajh wrote:
Afaik ivy is harder to over clock. Could be wrong but i think i remember seeing people reporting ivys getting hotter quicker. If your streaming software/emulators don't use ht then it doesn't make much sense too. You might lose out on performance unless you go for the top end oc. I'm pretty sure what it was is like, 4.7Ghz SB is easier to obtain than 4.7Ghz IVB, but because of architecture etc, you can get a 4.5Ghz IVB overclock that performs the same at less (?) power. Plus, he'll have the hyperthreaded cores. In that case, it's probably worth it, but Skyr or Myrmidon etc. could probably tell you better.
Well if the 3770k runs hotter it might not be as easy to get the same clock. I'm not sure what the actual conversion is but if you can only get 4.0 out of the 3770k vs 4.5 for the 2500k, you might see minimal gains. If your applications don't actually make use of HT that should further cement your decision.
This is not comparing an i5 2500k at full retail at ~$225 vs a discounted 3770k at ~$105. For that, the choice would be obvious.
This is a $105 expense on top of a sunk cost (i5 2500k already paid for) and considering if it's worth the performance gain.
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On November 21 2012 06:35 jacosajh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 02:09 Alryk wrote:On November 20 2012 21:56 jacosajh wrote:
Afaik ivy is harder to over clock. Could be wrong but i think i remember seeing people reporting ivys getting hotter quicker. If your streaming software/emulators don't use ht then it doesn't make much sense too. You might lose out on performance unless you go for the top end oc. I'm pretty sure what it was is like, 4.7Ghz SB is easier to obtain than 4.7Ghz IVB, but because of architecture etc, you can get a 4.5Ghz IVB overclock that performs the same at less (?) power. Plus, he'll have the hyperthreaded cores. In that case, it's probably worth it, but Skyr or Myrmidon etc. could probably tell you better. Well if the 3770k runs hotter it might not be as easy to get the same clock. I'm not sure what the actual conversion is but if you can only get 4.0 out of the 3770k vs 4.5 for the 2500k, you might see minimal gains. If your applications don't actually make use of HT that should further cement your decision. This is not comparing an i5 2500k at full retail at ~$225 vs a discounted 3770k at ~$105. For that, the choice would be obvious. This is a $105 expense on top of a sunk cost (i5 2500k already paid for) and considering if it's worth the performance gain.
Oh well yeah of course. He mentioned though that he likes streaming and emulating (I think). In that case, hyperthreading would probably be worth it no? A 2600K is ~100$ more than a 2500K anyways, so the hyperthreading price is about the same, although he could probably get at least 100$ for the 2500k.
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I don't think most emulators (including those) are threaded well enough to take advantage of the hyperthreading on a quad core.
Doesn't seem like the upgrade is worth the time and money. If you're running a stream with a lot of viewers, you'd want something better than just running off of your gaming computer with a i7-3770k anyway.
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Hey guys I picked up this bundle: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-103-OE
I only really have two concerns, will I need to uninstall my previous motherboard's drivers before I install the new one and will that all fit in a Thermaltake Element T (http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1321&ID=1877)?
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Hi i was wondering if someone could recommend me a good motherboard that is compatible with a Radeon HD 6850 graphics card and a AMD phenom 2 black edition processor. I'm looking to spend 200 dollars max but if there's one that you would really recommend for more than 200 feel free to suggest it.
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On November 21 2012 06:06 shouri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 05:12 Belial88 wrote:
I figured you did that. What games is this occuring in? Now that you mention it, my stream is actually perfectly in Starcraft 2(even in 1080p 30fps), but World of Warcraft is where I get the stuttering. Newer games that came out like Tera my frame rate also just takes a gigantic dive to where its almost unplayable even at 720p. I'll test my graphic card in a few minutes and let you know the results as well. I also don't have any vods of any other games and meanwhile my upload is 0.8, as I just moved not too long ago, which is getting changed in the near future edit: I also said "does appear to just be me" earlier, but I meant "does not appear"
wow, yea your upload is way too low. Now, I would say you can't really stream on .8 upload, but i think some have made it work with game source like dxtory. Either way, .8 upload is not comfortable. I'm not going to presume to say that that is definitely your problem, but I kinda think that's your problem for sure.
Also, what your upload rate is, is not the same as your upload rate to a server. For example, I have 4mb/s upload. Sounds great, right? Even against the servers I stream to, that's how my upload is. But when I actually stream, when I tested it, I can only really make about 1750vbv max/buffer work the best, which is fine, but my point is that you are going to be running on much less than .8 upload in actuality, your probably looking at like .5upload, which is not enough to stream HD. I'm not sure if you can get 480 on that even, but im not sure.
But I'd definitely say it's a bottleneck to your system. 2mb/s I think is recommended minimum, 4+ is quite comfortable, 6-8+ is where you just have a really shining stream.
However, this is what I'd recommend for you to do, seeing as your processor is ridiculously strong. Basically, each frame is a certain size - your bitrate, essentially. Now bitrate is the amount of data you can send out per second, basically (buffer has more to do with giving wiggle room in the stream, but a lot of stream sites don't accept more than 1:1 or 1:2 ratio of max/buffer). So, if you increase your frames per second, the size of the file per frame will be smaller, and the 'quality' of the image is lower. Generally, you want a to avoid a bottom limit per resolution per frame (or resolution by fps) or else it gets really blocky, and going above a certain point isn't too noticeable except when moving around really quickly to new areas on the map, and it takes a lot more to make it so there's zero blockiness when moving to a new area (ie jumping your screen from your base to his base for the first time).
Now, the CPU's job is 'compressing' the data, to send along the line, because sending out a 1mb image for each frame woudl be ridiculous. Each frame is compressed, which the cpu works to do. At general settings, more processors are fine, and even an athlon ii x4 is too strong a processor to take advantage of a 'slower' preset than average. What you could do with your i7 though, is 'quicken' the present, so more of the load is on your CPU, and less is on the line.
Try streaming on "Faster" preset. See if that helps you out, basically. It takes a really strong processor to be able to handle the quicker presets, but you might see a difference considering how low your internet is. You've basically got a ferrari stuck in a parking garage.
The fact you can play SC2 just fine, shows that it's not a hardware problem though. Your system is more than powerful, and I believe sc2 is more demanding than wow. Try looking to see if others have your problem with the games you mentioned, tera and wow. You have something else going on, and getting a new computer wouldn't really fix it.
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On November 21 2012 08:25 liam33 wrote:
Hi i was wondering if someone could recommend me a good motherboard that is compatible with a Radeon HD 6850 graphics card and a AMD phenom 2 black edition processor. I'm looking to spend 200 dollars max but if there's one that you would really recommend for more than 200 feel free to suggest it.
Are you planning to overclock? Are you planning to unlock?
There's a great deal of variation in Phenom ii's. The c2 revision and c3 revision of the same phenom ii model, like the 955 or 965, are 2 totally different CPUs, more different than a 955 vs 965 (of the same revision).
Could you be a little more specific? The best phenom ii 955 to get would probably be a 955 c3 deneb, phenom ii hexacores aren't really worth getting, or rather, the only improvement of hexacore phenoms is the improved ddr3 IMC controller, which is hardly noticeable in performance, and definitely not worth paying more than $20 for. Also, applications threaded up to 4 threads (basically everything, video games, etc, except streaming) perform the same on phenom x4 as they do on x6. Phenom hexacores are quite dissapointing, although going for a thuban wouldn't be a bad idea (ie 960t).
You should also look into getting a Phenom ii B97, it's the same thing as a phenom 955 except it's the OEM version, so it's got a semi-locked multiplier. It generally sells for about $50-65 on ebay, which is really cheap, and it's a c3 revision so your guaranteed to basically get 4+ ghz (the same can't be said for any 955).
Anyways, don't buy a phenom ii just for black edition. If you run black edition and increase the multiplier over stock, you no longer can use power saving features like Powernow!/CnQ, which will mean your CPU is running hot and heavy 24/7 instead of throttling itself down during idle and sleep modes. It's not like multiplier overclocking is any more easier or convenient than using the FSB (just reduce HT, CPU-NB, RAM multis, ez), and fsb overclocking tends to result in better stability for the same clocks/ higher overclocks. I mean, im not saying dont buy it, just dont pay more for a black edition, is all I'm saying. You can find B97s and B99s for great prices, some zosmas (locked thubans), etc.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131636
That's the cheapest board I could find that wasn't risky, it has a good VRM. You could also just go with the cheapest 4+1 power phase, and then buy some enzotech mosfet heatsinks and a spotcool fan, and then get a spot cool fan or jerry rig a 40mm fan somehow. Or get an even nicer vrm phase set.
How much do you plan to push your overclock? Do you have a hsf, or planning to get one? Phenom ii is quite cheap these days, it can be a lot of fun to build a cheapass build for nothing and tweak it and dont mind if it blows. Or do you not have too much money and can't really afford to lose a $300 pc?
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131827R
$31 open box, and its identical power phase. 4/4 + 1 split power phase, 8 pin cpu power connector, solid caps, good chokes, a heatsink on the mosfets. These 2 boards
That's actually a way better deal than the $140 one I listed.
This is just newegg, I'm sure you could find a proper am3 board somewhere (ebay?) for a good deal. Newegg has this nasty habit of not listing anything old.
Why are you upgrading to phenom ii? The only reason I'd ever say you should go phenom ii, is if your on a super tight budget, you stream (since logical cores make it so amd beats intel at same price, although get smashed in single/dual thread like games, but that doesnt matter because both phenom and pentium/i3 will play video games easily so its more like saying well one can play minesweeper better), and your into overclocking.
Phenom ii is kind of outdated now, although it does beat bulldozer clock for clock and for gaming, ie up to 4 threads. not sure about piledriver but it doesnt look good for them and thats definitely a lot pricier.
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On November 20 2012 16:28 iTzSnypah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 12:33 eklu65 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey guys! Skimmed through the thread a bit, I apologize if this is asking a lot. I built my comp in 2009, and overclocked it. First time for both of those. Now, I think it's time to update. I'd appreciate any and all help you're willing to give! These are the parts I'm looking to replace power supply mobo vid card processor ram heat sink What is your budget?$1050, plus or minus a little. Not including tax or shipping, although free shipping would be peachy. What is your resolution?1920X1080, but would like to leave room for a possible monitor upgrade. What are you using it for?Gaming What is your upgrade cycle?About 3 years When do you plan on building it?When I get all parts together. I plan on finishing this around late January/early February. Do you plan on overclocking?I remember seeing an ASUS board that had I guess what you'd call an auto overclock switch about a year ago. I'm kind of interested in that, tbh, but if I just can't get it to work in my build, then that's not a deal breaker. I don't plan on overclocking if I can't get that mobo. Do you need an Operating System?Nope. Benefit of being in college.  Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?Nope Where are you buying your parts from?Cheapest possible places. That tends to be online, usually. All of the major brands have Auto OC buttons and they are all junk. They raise your voltage stupidly high for mild overclocks.
Yeah, I had a feeling. Oh well, frees up my options.
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Oh. My god. Then don't get black edition lol. Black edition is really stupid anyways - you pay a premium just for 'black edition' which just means unlocked multiplier, ie you can move the multi from 0 to 32x (stock is around 14-16).
With a non-black edition, you have a 'semi-locked' processor, which means you can move the multiplier only lower (so 16 and below, or whatever stock is).
Sometimes people might say 'multiplier overclocking is easier', but it isn't really easier, and it's less effective - as i said, powersaving features that are really really good can't be used and thus you'll hurt your chip's life in the long run, it's not as stable, and it's not hard to overclock via fsb.
There's just no reason to go for a black edition if you aren't overclocking, and if you are. The only reason you'd go black edition is if your in some very weird position where your not someone who has never overclocked and never plans to, and your not someone who has a semblance of an idea of what they are doing, but some sort of person who has no knowledge of overclocking, wants to overclock, but refuses to learn anything, like maybe you are restricted on time for the next couple months so you cant be bothered to google it once. That said, black editions can be on sale for cheap just like anything else, that's how i ended up getting Black edition, but you shouldnt expressly try to get a black edition over non-be.
The open box motherboard I linked to you was actually a really solid deal. There might be good deals on other websites or ebay or amazon, but newegg has it listed at a really good price and it's an extremely high quality motherboard. It's literally the exact same thing as that $140 motherboard I linked originally.
You haven't built a computer before, have you?
That is the stock fan... every single motherboard out there is specifically designed around the stock heatsink of the cpu it's designed for. I 100% guarantee you, the motherboard will fit that fan lol.
In fact, that motherboard will even fit a fan like this:
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/a/img689/4760/dsc00284ph.jpg)
What kind of Phenom ii do you have? And why do you want me to recommend a fan if you already got one? The stock fan is powerful enough if you dont plan to overclock. And if you really don't plan to overclock, you should literally just buy the cheapest AM3 motherboard that you can. You are aware that fan is the stock fan right, its the fan that comes with the CPU when you buy it new from anywhere.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Biostar-A780L3G-AMD-760G-Socket-AM3-mATX-Motherboard-w-DVI-Video-Audio-GbLAN-/360503659907?pt=Motherboards&hash=item53efb14d83
Here you go, biostar (a very good brand at the budget level) micro-atx A780L3G AMD 760G . Perfect if you dont plan to overclock. Honestly the motherboard I linked, open box, for $60, is a really, really, really good motherboard, but if you are 100% sure you wont overclock, then there's no reason to get it. Im sure if I searched more, I could find you an even cheaper motherboard.
Seriously. No plans to overclock, cheapest AM3 motherboard is all you need.
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Yes first time building a computer glad to hear about that fan. I'm going to go ahead with that motherboard its a good deal. I think ill give a look into what overclocking is i have the time to learn about it. Once again thanks for taking your time to help me with this.
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That open box motherboard is currently out of stock here in Canada unfortunately.
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Okay, TL Build Resource Gurus! Question: I want to build a laptop. I hear this is doable, I think it would be fun, but I don't super know how to go about picking ideal parts. I'm looking to basically cram as much power into about a 5 pound computer as I can, spending <$1500. Thoughts on this specific question, and laptop building in general, would be welcome.
You guys kick ass.
-Cross
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EPT
