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On November 01 2012 15:39 JJGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 10:31 iTzSnypah wrote:On November 01 2012 09:49 JJGamer wrote:On October 31 2012 22:40 Ata wrote:On October 31 2012 14:15 JJGamer wrote:
I have a budget of $1200 that I'm ready to throw down for a decently beast of a rig for gaming, and possibly streaming. I have all other peripherals such as monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. so this $1200 is strictly for the rig itself. So enlighten me with a build!
P.S. I intend on overclocking You need to answer the questions in the OP. I'm not planning to go SLI and yes i need an operating system. I'm planning to build it very soon and I'm getting majority of my parts from MicroCenter. Sigh, you missed the most important question in the OP. I'll assume you have just spent $17000 on the new 4k2k tv and therefore need to spend all your budget on a GTX 690 to play games on it with decent fps. Or I'll assume you have a 10 year old 800*600 monitor and need a pair of sticks to play any game on ultra. Although that is a severe example it holds true. Seriously if we assume you have a 1920 x 1080 60hz monitor and then suggest a 7850 1GB and you actually have a 2560 x 1600 120hz monitor you'll be sorely disappointed when you crank up the settings. My bad.. I have a 1920 x 1080 60hz monitor. Is there anything else I need to answer before I can get a build going?
Boy, I bet you wished you just used the OP questionnaire format by now  .
Core components: $632
i5-3570k ($217 after combo savings)
Gigabyte z77-DS3H ($110)
Sapphire 7950 ($305, before $20 rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1099651
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202006
Supporting components: $391
Coolermaster 212 Evo ($26)
2x4gb 1600mhz RAM ($34 after $5 promo code EMCJNHD54, ends today)
Bit Fenix Ghost ($100)
Rosewill Capstone 550m ($70)
Samsung 830 128gb ($100)
Caviar Blue 1TB ($70, if you use a lot of space, 2TB can be had for $20 more)
DVD-burner ($17)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=64385&vpn=RR-212E-20PK-R2&manufacture=COOLERMASTER
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231544
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=73006&vpn=BFC-GHO-300-KKN1-RP&manufacture=BitFenix&promoid=1395
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182262
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=74132&vpn=MZ-7PC128B/WW&manufacture=Others&promoid=1352
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=74462&vpn=WD10EZEX&manufacture=Others&promoid=1016
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=45244&vpn=IHAS124-04&manufacture=Liteon
Total: $1049
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On November 02 2012 01:29 Alryk wrote:OK guys, here's a build I'm ordering next week: (Not all parts came from newegg (some cheaper elsewhere), but their site is the nicest). Case: Fractal Design Core 1000CPU: i3 3220GPU: GTX 650HDD: 500 GB Seagate Motherboard: Either This Asrock H77 or Asrock B75 MotherboardRam: G.Skill Ripjaws 8GB PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450WODD: Random 15$ drive recommended a few pages back. So: GTX 650 because starcraft II results are better than the 7770 (And that's my primary game; based off Anandtech bench). As for motherboard, the price is comparable because the H77 has free shipping, is there anything I should prefer about either one? I picked this RAM because its 29.99 with a promo code, but will it fit still if I add in say a Hyper 212 plus and overclock later (different board/cpu ofc)? I've never used ram with the higher heatspreaders (I have no idea how high these are relatively either). The PSU was recommended a few pages back to just save an extra 10$. I have another 70$ approx. to spend on the build. All I do is play SC2, occasional GW2, and then also random student stuff that is irrelevant. I figured my two options were 1) get an SSD for OS and programs, or 2) upgrade to a quad core. I imagine the SSD will be a better option, but what do y'all think?
Yeah the Hyper 212 will still fit.
You will disagree with me when you first see it, but the hyper 212 is actually a small CPU cooler.
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Awesome, thanks.
Edit: SSD or quad core? I assume an ssd will hhave more of an impact?
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Hyper 212 doesn't fit in Core 1000 without bending the side panel. That's a 92mm fan mount you see on the rear of the case, not a 120mm fan mount; the whole thing is narrower than you might think. For a 120mm fan tower cooler, some of the options are some 7mm or so shorter than the Hyper 212 and would fit a little better, but why bother? Core i3 has a completely locked multiplier, so you can't overclock aside from a few percent increase from some piddling BCLK adjustment. B75 and H77 don't allow for CPU multiplier adjustments anyway.
For those purposes, I'd rather have the SSD, but an i5 would be slightly better in SC2 (some have higher effective clock speed from Turbo Boost, but it's the 3MB extra L3 cache that's responsible probably).
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Ah good points, I didn't check the case. I was just thinking about the RAM.
And yeah you dont need a custom cooler, so that problem is gone anyway.
SSD only makes things load faster. While a quad core will make most things perform better.
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On November 02 2012 04:23 Myrmidon wrote:
Hyper 212 doesn't fit in Core 1000 without bending the side panel. That's a 92mm fan mount you see on the rear of the case, not a 120mm fan mount; the whole thing is narrower than you might think. For a 120mm fan tower cooler, some of the options are some 7mm or so shorter than the Hyper 212 and would fit a little better, but why bother? Core i3 has a completely locked multiplier, so you can't overclock aside from a few percent increase from some piddling BCLK adjustment. B75 and H77 don't allow for CPU multiplier adjustments anyway.
For those purposes, I'd rather have the SSD, but an i5 would be slightly better in SC2 (some have higher effective clock speed from Turbo Boost, but it's the 3MB extra L3 cache that's responsible probably).
Oh yeah the only reason I'd get a hyper 212 was if I was upgrading to a Z77/K processor later on. (I guess it wouldn't be ivb, haswell or something instead). But thanks for letting me know that haha.
Hmm ok. And yeah I know the SSD loads things faster and that's it, but I wasn't thinking that the i5 would have any major differences, other than the Turbo (I forgot about the cache). But will it really be necessary if I don't play team games? Also, can't you "overclock" nonK processors by ~400 mhz ish?
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The overclocking by ~400 MHz (4 multipliers) is only on P or Z series chipset motherboards, only on processors with Turbo Boost (Core i5 and above).
The difference in processors for SC2 is not really much significant at all, so I wouldn't worry about that.
If you already have to change out the motherboard for a CPU upgrade, you can add a heatsink then. Again, note the restriction with the Core 1000 (also the number of hard drive mounts).
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I would argue the difference in processors not being much at all.
My argument being that since having that third (and to a lesser extent the fourth) core for your operating environment does a lot in distributing the work away from your games framerates.
In this, Myrmidon is BY NO MEANS wrong. He considers the SSD to be the better buy in this case, while i consider the quad core. So this is just personal preference. You can't go wrong.
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Alright, thanks. I'll probably flip a coin or something. :p
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@ microcenter, the i72700k is only $229, $140 cheaper than original price. i was planning on buying the 3570k which is $169, $80 cheaper than original price.
i feel like the 2700k is almost too good to pass up especially if i get it with a motherboard combo. how much will it help with streaming starcraft 2 @ 720/1080p?
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On November 02 2012 08:07 aBstractx wrote:
@ microcenter, the i72700k is only $229, $140 cheaper than original price. i was planning on buying the 3570k which is $169, $80 cheaper than original price.
i feel like the 2700k is almost too good to pass up especially if i get it with a motherboard combo. how much will it help with streaming starcraft 2 @ 720/1080p?
I7's only see a performance boost vs. I5's while streaming, so it'll help immensely. The 4 extra virtual cores will pretty much do their own thing for streaming, two cores for sc2 and two cores for background shit.
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On November 02 2012 08:34 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 08:07 aBstractx wrote:
@ microcenter, the i72700k is only $229, $140 cheaper than original price. i was planning on buying the 3570k which is $169, $80 cheaper than original price.
i feel like the 2700k is almost too good to pass up especially if i get it with a motherboard combo. how much will it help with streaming starcraft 2 @ 720/1080p? I7's only see a performance boost vs. I5's while streaming, so it'll help immensely. The 4 extra virtual cores will pretty much do their own thing for streaming, two cores for sc2 and two cores for background shit.
I'm dubious about the actual benefits for streaming with hyperthreading, I haven't seen conclusive evidence, so I would presume it depends on the program and how well it handles assigning the correct virtual affinities effectively.
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I have a question:
What's a good AM3 socket phenom ii to go with these days?
It seems to me that AMD hexacore isn't really worth it, and won't improve sc2 performance much over any other phenom ii...
and there isn't much difference between the phenom ii' 9XX series, basically different binning by AMD.
And if you are into overclocking, you'll probably get the same results with a 955 as with a 970.
So basically, the 955, 965, etc, are all fine? And if you are into overclocking, you are going to overclock via FSB instead of through the multiplier so black edition doesnt really mean anything since non-BE have semi-locked multipliers.
a 955 for $10-20... worth it right?
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On November 02 2012 10:59 Rollin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 08:34 Infernal_dream wrote:On November 02 2012 08:07 aBstractx wrote:
@ microcenter, the i72700k is only $229, $140 cheaper than original price. i was planning on buying the 3570k which is $169, $80 cheaper than original price.
i feel like the 2700k is almost too good to pass up especially if i get it with a motherboard combo. how much will it help with streaming starcraft 2 @ 720/1080p? I7's only see a performance boost vs. I5's while streaming, so it'll help immensely. The 4 extra virtual cores will pretty much do their own thing for streaming, two cores for sc2 and two cores for background shit. I'm dubious about the actual benefits for streaming with hyperthreading, I haven't seen conclusive evidence, so I would presume it depends on the program and how well it handles assigning the correct virtual affinities effectively.
Unless the encoder is using some handicapped x264 encoder build, if the fps is high enough and the preset slow enough, the hyperthreading is going to help. Check every x264 encoding benchmark known to man (except 1st pass of a 2-pass encode; crf-based realtime encoding is more like the 2nd pass of a 2-pass encode) and see how i7s do compared with i5s.
On November 02 2012 12:32 Belial88 wrote:I have a question: What's a good AM3 socket phenom ii to go with these days? + Show Spoiler +
It seems to me that AMD hexacore isn't really worth it, and won't improve sc2 performance much over any other phenom ii...
and there isn't much difference between the phenom ii' 9XX series, basically different binning by AMD.
And if you are into overclocking, you'll probably get the same results with a 955 as with a 970.
So basically, the 955, 965, etc, are all fine? And if you are into overclocking, you are going to overclock via FSB instead of through the multiplier so black edition doesnt really mean anything since non-BE have semi-locked multipliers.
a 955 for $10-20... worth it right?
Right, if you want top overclocks, you get the highest-binned part in hopes it will overclock further. If you're not overclocking, the fastest part out of the box would be the best, though you shouldn't do away with the usual price/performance evaluation. 955 should be fine, especially for a moderate overclock.
Why would one not want to overclock, at least partially, via multiplier? Especially if your RAM won't run at faster speeds, upping CPU multiplier should be easier.
Hex cores are worth it for some tasks, just not gaming and most things.
Anyway, FX-4300 is about the same these days as a Phenom II X4—depends on clocks.
Is there really much of a point to upgrading AM3 to AM3 though, unless you need extra cores? For a new build, there's certainly not much point to AM3/AM3+ unless you need more cores.
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The only issue with that is that dual core games will also take 2 hyperthreads away. Lots of people think hyperthread means you get two cores for gaming and 2 cores for streaming and 4 hyperthreads for streaming when in actuality its 2 hyperthreads.
So generally speaking benchmarks arent going to take this into account. Game streaming is a bit of a special monster. No doubt hyperthreading is a boon but i think it does half as well as benchmarks say it does.
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On November 02 2012 12:40 Medrea wrote:
The only issue with that is that dual core games will also take 2 hyperthreads away. Lots of people think hyperthread means you get two cores for gaming and 2 cores for streaming and 4 hyperthreads for streaming when in actuality its 2 hyperthreads.
So generally speaking benchmarks arent going to take this into account. Game streaming is a bit of a special monster. No doubt hyperthreading is a boon but i think it does half as well as benchmarks say it does.
Are you talking about thrashing or otherwise, concurrency issues, for cores trying to run a game and encoding simultaneously?
I'm not sure I agree with your bookkeeping; it may not be as good as a pure encoding benchmark would imply, but I wouldn't interpret it the way you do either. Then again, I don't think that it's much of a useful model to think of the scheduling in terms of hyperthreads or vitual cores, though that seems to be the way most people discuss it (that's also the model that comes naturally from looking at what Task Manager displays). It's kind of an awkward topic, so I don't blame anybody for using any model; I'm not sure what to say either.
Anyway, I'm not sure about the performance, and I don't think real data is out there either. Anybody with a i3 or i7 want to run a test for us?
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Right, if you want top overclocks, you get the highest-binned part in hopes it will overclock further. If you're not overclocking, the fastest part out of the box would be the best, though you shouldn't do away with the usual price/performance evaluation. 955 should be fine, especially for a moderate overclock.
Why would one not want to overclock, at least partially, via multiplier? Especially if your RAM won't run at faster speeds, upping CPU multiplier should be easier.
Hex cores are worth it for some tasks, just not gaming and most things.
Anyway, FX-4300 is about the same these days as a Phenom II X4—depends on clocks.
Is there really much of a point to upgrading AM3 to AM3 though, unless you need extra cores? For a new build, there's certainly not much point to AM3/AM3+ unless you need more cores.
Thanks for a very simple answer, if I can get the 955 for $10-20, I'll go for it, and I understand that basically any 9xx phenom ii is essentially the same, binning and luck factors aside.
I thought some were slightly different, ie thuban vs deneb vs zorkmid or whatever 95w, etc. and like deneb x4 vs thuban x4, yes i know a thuban x4 is just a disabled x6... so was just curious which of these was most desirable.
Overclocking via multiplier is fine, but I find that multiplier is like using a shovel for something that needs to be done with tweezers. Sure you can find roughly where your cpu lies with multiplier tweaking, but if you really want to overclock your system your going to do it via fsb, since there's a huge difference between ~200mhz from one multi to the next, and a lot of system components like ram and cpu-nb really can't be overclocked using the multiplier since they are too sensitive.
From what I understand of FX series CPUs... they are terrible, and intel is way better for the same price. Now obviously I'm aware intel is king, but amd appears to be superior in the sub-$100 market, especially to someone who already has an am3 motherboard.
i mean im aware that you could 'hack' an am3 board to use am3+ but i think my mobo might be too low end for that... i suppose i could look into it if its really worth it...
anyways the allure to going phenom ii from athlon ii is huge overclock gains, an l3 cache, and an upgrade price under $100. I think it's possible to get a phenom ii 9xx for around 50-80 if you find a deal on a used one or something. I'm aware of how rare such a deal occurs, but i would at least know to keep an eye out for it.
edit: Also, if you increase your multiplier, CoolnQuiet/PowerNow! no longer works, whereas if you keep your multiplier at stock or below (x16 or below), these features still work. Obviously when tweaking for an overclock you disable these features, but once you find stable, you turn them back on. I mean they result in HUGE life expectancy increases and less power usage... it would really suck to run at full, say, 4ghz at 1.5v 24/7.
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The recently-released (couple weeks ago?) Vishera is a bit better than Zambezi and maybe an actual replacement for Phenom II.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/700?vs=102
But if you're talking about unusual deal prices rather than typical pricing, a cheap Phenom II X4 would be more along the right lines. I don't think you'll find a current-gen processor on a very heavy discount. And if your mobo doesn't support AM3+, I wouldn't bother looking anyway.
edit: though if you have a cheaper motherboard, how are you going to be getting (much) better overclocks, anyway? Be sure not to fry some cheap VRMs with 150W+ draw from overclocked Phenom II X4.
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^ Only in certain applications, and is it better in 2 core optimized sc2 (speaking of which, damn i wish i just went with an intel penium 860 dualcore or something instead of athlon ii x4)? Either way, i can't really do anything about that because that'd require an am3+ motherboard. Even if i wanted to 'hack' an am3+ cpu on my am3 motherboard, the bios won't support it for my specific mobo model, biostar a770e3. and plugging am3+ on am3 makes sure a lot of the improvements/features get turned off so no point in doing that anyways.
basically, if i wanted to improve my cpu for under $100, the only way to do it would be to go phenom ii x4 9xx. i think it'd be a real step up from athlon ii x4 3.4ghz (passmark is 4141, which is i3 level) if I could manage a half decent overclock, which my system is set up for. I have a 212+ and 7 fans. unfortunately my system is stability limited, not temp limited. i can't force my cpu above 40*c, nor can i force it past 3.4ghz no matter how much juice i give it, even 1.6v (athlon ii x 450's dont go past 3.4 ghz, but always unlock 4th core at least. maybe ill try overvolting cpunb to 1.3 and 1.6vcore... hm...).
edit: though if you have a cheaper motherboard, how are you going to be getting (much) better overclocks, anyway? Be sure not to fry some cheap VRMs with 150W+ draw from overclocked Phenom II X4.
Remember this?
You can see the application of thermal tape on the mosfets in this picture, that's what your looking at
![[image loading]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Vsbun8_dF5Y/TX-UvwThfMI/AAAAAAAAAjQ/Z8o_aJHYhpw/s640/IMG_20110315_052543.jpg)
sawed up am2 stock heatsink
![[image loading]](https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_Vsbun8_dF5Y/TX-UXdp5uHI/AAAAAAAAAiw/62rA8SJMMWg/s640/IMG_20110315_052554.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_Vsbun8_dF5Y/TX-UXzEyq9I/AAAAAAAAAi4/-eBA-7QcmA4/s640/IMG_20110315_053914.jpg)
push/pull fans removed so i can take a clear picture.
![[image loading]](https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_Vsbun8_dF5Y/TX-UsZCQmgI/AAAAAAAAAi8/9uTvXh1tuYA/s640/IMG_20110315_064932.jpg)
You can see that i took the stock cpu fan and stuck it onto my system northbridge in that final picture. im the epitome of stretching the last dollar. I find it fun. I'm well aware of how shitty my motherboard mosfets are, but I have 2 discrete temperature sensors in my VRMs and that big heatsink is still there.
On a side note, that $10-20 phenom ii 955 im looking at is a c2 revision (HDZ955FBK4DGI) so maybe i wont get that tt.
edit: Interestingly enough, Phenom ii x4 B97's sell for $65 regularly.
It's a c3 revision of the 955, so it's literally just the best revision of the 955, -DGM. i guess people see BE and pay premium for it... not sure... i think i might go with that instead. if i go with anything.
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Hello guys, I am looking to build a new computer. I plan on streaming StarCraft II so I am looking for a cpu that is good at streaming. I am currently looking at these two cpus:
E3-1240V2 3.4GHZ
i7-3770 3.4GHZ
The E3 is cheaper than the i7, but for SC-II streaming purposes, which one would be a better choice?
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EPT
