• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:38
CET 16:38
KST 00:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
English Cream Golden Retriever: A Complete Guide t FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
When to Hire a Tenant Attorney and How to Find One
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2310 users

SC:Legacy Macro Contest - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
123 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5657 Posts
January 06 2009 19:54 GMT
#121
* The ideal mechanic should be direct in its usage and provide beneficial gameplay.
* The ideal mechanic should have both advantages and disadvantages.
* The ideal mechanic should not have a drastically negative effect for any player, whether for you, your teammate or an opponent and his teammate.
* The ideal mechanic should not discourage micro.
* The ideal mechanic should not alter the MBS or auto-mining features.
* The ideal mechanic should be flexible in its ability to be balanced.
* The ideal mechanic should not be forced upon a specific map or upon a certain type of player.
* The ideal mechanic's effect should not be random - its results must have definite results.
* Preferably, the ideal mechanic will be dependent upon a player’s choices.
1esu
Profile Joined April 2007
United States303 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-06 19:56:10
January 06 2009 19:54 GMT
#122
On January 07 2009 04:36 petzergling wrote:
idra since you are all over this thread what do you think of this idea
+ Show Spoiler +
Name:
petzergling

tl;dr:
Combine starcraft 1 mechanics with starcraft 2. Blizzard wanted to add automine & MBS to make gameplay easier, especially at a casual level. Provide a cost to MBS and automine that is negligible at a casual standpoint but can negated at a competitive level if players don't use the mechanics. Make the first mineral brought back by an automined worker not count. Most casual players don't even take the time to split their workers, so 8 minerals wouldn't make a big difference to them if it means they can do other things instead of click workers. Make units produced off of MBS take 25% longer to build or cost 10% more. This will allow anybody to have a large-scale battle of epic proportions while still rewarding players with high mechanical skill who take the time to select each factory individually.

Expanded explanation:
Why is this a good idea?

-This promotes casual play, and even more, COMPETITIVE PLAY
Adding MBS & Automine costs would be an amazing compromise and solution. It keeps casual players ability to use MBS and Automine and it still allows players to not use them and receive benefits for not using them. But heres the best part, casual players who use MBS and Automine are somewhat encouraged to not use them, even slightly, because it benefits them. Casual players get the choice to learn to play the game better and faster, and before they know it they are also playing at a competitive level where they can compete with the best players.

-Automine & MBS costs are completely simple, direct, and comprehendable. It is awesome for both the casual and competitive world. Casual players have a brand new shiny interface with the ability to automine and MBS, while returning competitive players still can bring their mechanics to the table and perfect their skills at starcraft 2.

-The costs have minimal negative effects. Casual players not only are only slightly harmed by them, but MBS and Automine allows them to play side by side with competitive players without it with a very small skill gap and no need for a change of game settings,

-A&MBS costs do not discourage micro, but rather they EMPHASIZE it. Players learn quickly in a battle they have the option to macro to gain a reinforcement advantage or just use the MBS feature and control their units normally. Players, casual and competitive alike, will be able to directly see the benefits and disadvantages of when micro should and shouldn't be used. This decision making, whether to macro or micro, is the backbone of the reason that plain MBS and Automine will hurt the game. This cost mechanic still leaves the decision there, but keeps the battle going by allowing players with lower mechanical skill to use MBS and control their units 100% while still knowing that reinforcements are coming.

-Automine & MBS costs are completely flexible to balance issues. Any issue regarding balancing it would just be determined by the % sacrificed by MBS and automine. Heck, there could even be a game setting where players can adjust it themselves! In competitive matches(kespa approved, tournaments) MBS and Automine would have high costs, where in friendly casual matches you could turn the costs down all the way to zero.

-A&MBS Costs are not random, map specific, player specific, or even game specific. All players are effected by it as much as they choose to be, and even though there are costs there are direct benefits to using it.

-A&MBS costs merge competitive gamers and casual gamers into a united gaming community. You would never think to see a casual player improving his mining and macro mechanics to get better at a game, but if there are tangible benefits to better macro then players will. You would never think to see a competitive player wanting A&MBS features in the game, but with the costs added even competitive gamers would use this to benefit their gaming experience. In the early and mid games they don't use the mechanic to gain every advantage possible, but in the late game players can use the MBS mechanics as well as automine to allow them to think more about strategy and less on brainless clicking on 16+ unit producers, leading ultimately for more fun and more play from all gamers.



Just so you know, that idea directly violates at least one of the criteria, so they won't accept it for the contest.

+ Show Spoiler +


The ideal mechanic should not alter the MBS or auto-mining features.


Putting a penalty on using MBS or auto-mining directly alters the features, by encouraging people not to use them. In addition, there's no benefit to the mechanic, or a strategic choice. Finally, and most problematic, the mechanic creates a situation where the game encourages you to use MBS and auto-mining, then punishes you for doing so, sending contradictory messages to the player. That's a surefire way to get players to quit a game, and tell their friends it sucks.

Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, but I've heard way too many variations on this idea of punishing the player for using MBS/auto-mine, and the criteria for the contest are designed explicitly to avoid these types of ideas.


Edit: Ninjanexttime!

petzergling
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
538 Posts
January 06 2009 20:41 GMT
#123
I never really had intentions on winning the competition, as I disagree with the idea of MBS/automine and I don't think throwing more features into the game is the proper solution. Honestly I don't think it alters MBS or automining features that drastically. Other suggestions such as making MBS/automining a researched ability, or limited MBS alter it much more then just adding a cost to it.

As to the other ones, sc1 macro provides beneficial gameplay, it has advantages and disadvantages, and the impact is not "drastically negative". Any macro added to the game that a player refuses to do is going to have a negative impact on the player regardless of whether it directly involves A&MBS or not.

Saying that my suggestion isn't dependent on players choices doesn't make sense at all I'm not even going to try to argue it.
Mod Edit: Don't bold your entire post
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5657 Posts
January 06 2009 20:46 GMT
#124
"Saying that my suggestion isn't dependent on players choices doesn't make sense at all I'm not even going to try to argue it."

It doesn't??

You can't choose between the less and the more efficient way, the "choice" is too obvious. ;;
Prev 1 5 6 7 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group A, Day 3
WardiTV1239
TKL 240
Rex146
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 500
Lowko411
TKL 240
Hui .207
Rex 146
LamboSC2 85
BRAT_OK 58
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 41783
Calm 5553
Rain 2790
GuemChi 1537
Stork 512
BeSt 345
hero 224
Light 207
Soma 156
Rush 114
[ Show more ]
Zeus 107
Leta 105
Pusan 95
Killer 71
sas.Sziky 70
Mind 61
Sea.KH 54
ToSsGirL 31
Barracks 30
yabsab 28
Movie 22
scan(afreeca) 21
zelot 20
Terrorterran 13
Noble 7
ivOry 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5451
qojqva2373
Dendi881
XcaliburYe82
Counter-Strike
allub402
oskar126
Heroes of the Storm
XaKoH 75
Other Games
singsing1907
crisheroes331
Fuzer 297
QueenE240
DeMusliM168
Mlord166
KnowMe156
RotterdaM141
ArmadaUGS70
Liquid`VortiX54
Trikslyr28
fpsfer 2
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream11278
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream4092
Other Games
BasetradeTV108
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 11
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 12
• poizon28 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2646
League of Legends
• Nemesis4620
• TFBlade921
Other Games
• WagamamaTV57
Upcoming Events
BSL: GosuLeague
5h 22m
PiGosaur Cup
9h 22m
The PondCast
18h 22m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 15h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
4 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
IPSL
5 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.