EPT[D] Auto-Mining? - Page 9
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Elementy
United States183 Posts
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Wraithlin
United Kingdom50 Posts
What aren't you going to whine about ? No seriously tell me, what are you not going to throw a shitty fit over ? Simply shouting about everything will only lead to being ignored, because you are failing to be constructive. Blizzard are not going to rerelease SC with new graphics and some extra missions. If thats what you want keep playing SCBW, we arent going to come around and delete it from your PCs and smash your discs. These threads could be so much more constructive if less of the posts were "OMG if you change anything you will noob the game, and you are a noob for wanting to change the game". Im anti-automining, and there are good arguments for leaving automining out, but you only undermine the good anti-automine arguments if you shit up the thread with constant abuse of anyone you disagree with. Unlike MBS which is not so much mental ability as much as ability to hit 10 keys in a preset order really quickly, automine does actually require less attention from the player (not just less APM). Automining will reward, to some extent, the player who queues up a couple of workers at each CC/nexus/hatchery by giving them maximal economy growth for zero attention. Forcing a player to return to their base to direct workers forces them to divide their attention. Automining will be far more damaging than MBS, in my opinion, because it removes a part of the game that forces you to take attention off your army. SBS vs MBS is not the same, even with MBS you need to return to your base to direct the new units that just built from their rally point to wherever you want them. Automining will genuinely lower the multi-tasking juggling, particularly early game, and for me the REAL reason that SC is a better e-sport than other RTS games is because the opening is actually ineteresting. Compare other RTS games where the first 5-10 minutes is pretty much standard and very very slow/dull (particularly WC3 where the first 5 mintues seem to consist of nothing but creeping). Automing in the early economy will make the opening easier and therefore probably more predictable. | ||
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Mammoth
United Kingdom49 Posts
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
It's about idle workers . You start with 6. But you need about 60 if the game goes into middle or late game. If they require no attention then that kills multitasking even more. Only multitasking in SC2 currently is building new buildings and going to your rally point. And of course the multitasking of your shuttle with harass units and the army at your front. Sim City IS fun. Base management IS fun. And not only that. It's essential for the balance between macro and micro which is one of the foundations of the success of SC and influences the game in so many areas. | ||
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
On January 23 2008 02:15 Mammoth wrote: I don't see why people are still debating over this - the idea I posted a few pages back solves the problem of automining completely. For those who can't be bothered to check back a few pages, essentially all you need to do is create maps where each expansion point contians both yellow and blue minerals. Since automining doesn't differentiate between different types of minerals (as far as i know), if you want the most efficient use of your workers you have to direct them to the yellow mineral patches yourself. There you are, problem solved. Read my previous posts if you want a more in-depth explanation of why this would work. With a certain amount of workers this doesn't solve the problem at all. | ||
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GeneralZap
United States172 Posts
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
terran being a terrifying example. almost every unit has an activatable skill. i am sure even at 300 APM. you wont run out of stuff to do. | ||
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Fen
Australia1848 Posts
On January 24 2008 00:50 dybydx wrote: i think auto mine and auto repair is fine. its like MBS i think the time shaved off can be spent better elsewhere. terran being a terrifying example. almost every unit has an activatable skill. i am sure even at 300 APM. you wont run out of stuff to do. You will run out of macro actions. With MBS and Automine, your left with building construction as the only real macro task. However you talk about micro actions which relate to when units are in combat. What do you do if you have no macro actions, and your not fighting? | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
There should be a mechanism such that spending time with your economy will yield greater income, without scrapping automine. Something like selecting your workers and manually sending them back to the hall for a speed boost is a little simplistic. Mammoth's idea fails to function when the minerals are saturated, which is pretty much very early in the game. What could it be :\ | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
An idle worker button does work. Helps you do the task but doesn't do it for you. Won't matter at all at the high level. | ||
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
What do you do if you have no macro actions, and your not fighting? if you are not fighting, you might be at a disadvantage. leaving your enemy unchecked is usually bad. the exception is if you have something in store for ur opponent. [edit] serious typo :< | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
Having some way for the player to improve economy with actions means that a player won't be stpending time twidling his thumbs, it means a player can choose to focus on economy or battle, rather than being forced to spend time on his economy. A low level player can use automine and not suffer too greatly, but at higher levels of competiton, you won't be able to keep up economically unless you do it. It restores a real choice to economy vs military as a focus, rather than forcing players to do an economic task ocne every 30 seconds | ||
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
On January 24 2008 04:00 GeneralStan wrote: Sure you can. Having some way for the player to improve economy with actions means that a player won't be stpending time twidling his thumbs, it means a player can choose to focus on economy or battle, rather than being forced to spend time on his economy. A low level player can use automine and not suffer too greatly, but at higher levels of competiton, you won't be able to keep up economically unless you do it. It restores a real choice to economy vs military as a focus, rather than forcing players to do an economic task ocne every 30 seconds You seem not to know how fast progamers are. They can handle everything without features like automining. They don't need to focus on something, they do everything. That's why they will have much less to do macro-wise. | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
The point is not to reduce the amount of multi-tasking needed at a high level. The point is that with Automine and optional apm-intensive economic activity, progamers will have plenty with which to multi-task (or slower players who prefer the economic part of the game). They will have to do the optional tasks to keep up with their opponent who is in all likely hood doing the things as well, but a lower level player can ignore them and micro his army if that's what he wants. The idea is that the actions added will pound for pound add up to the same amount of action as senidng peons to mine. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
A low level player can use automine and not suffer too greatly, but at higher levels of competiton, you won't be able to keep up economically unless you do it. That's exactly why it's great. And actually, progamers can do a lot. But, you shouldn't be able to focus on a single thing in an RTS game. | ||
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
On January 24 2008 05:28 BlackStar wrote: That's exactly why it's great. And actually, progamers can do a lot. But, you shouldn't be ale to focus on a single thing in an RTS game. I don't know what "ale" means in that context but nevertheless: focus on what? | ||
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rpf
United States2705 Posts
If you make something automated, you're taking an action the player would normally perform, and allowing the AI to do it for you. It's no better than having units automatically micro themselves. Maybe my zealots should automatically pull back when weak, and then return to the fight. Maybe my dragoons should automatically focus a given target to kill it in one volley. I don't like wasting dragoon shoots. Why not make that automated, too? Oh, that's right: it'd ruin the fucking game. I like simple. I like easy. But I don't like things being done for me. | ||
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teapot
United Kingdom266 Posts
When an enemy unit comes within range of a marine he AUTOMATICALLY opens fire. When a marine is attacked by a unit beyond his attack range he will AUTOMATICALLY run away. When a medic has a injured unit in her range she will AUTOMATICALLY heals it. We could take these out, but it'd ruin the fucking game. Imagine SC2 as a car. The enhancements being made to the UI are more like power steering than automatic transmission. Power steering is a good thing, it gives you MORE CONTROL. Automatic transmission is a bad thing, it takes decisions away from you giving you LESS CONTROL. The UI improvements in SC2 are enhancing decisions that you already make. Anyone who has driven a car with power steering does not want to go without it. But lots of people, including myself can't stand the idea of someone who drives an automatic, learn to drive properly morons! xD | ||
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parkin
1081 Posts
And how is it supposed to work for zergs when they have rally point in the middle of the map? Will the drones go all the way to the middle of the map and start mining there? Do zerg players have to manually babysit every drone that pops out to mine? Isnt this a big advantage to terran and protoss? | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2646 Posts
I endorse both unlimited hotkeys and MBS (since they are basically the same thing) but I can't support automine. It takes away mental efforts from the player that requires timing, focus and compromise. I hope they don't include it. They can blame it on being unfair for the zerg. | ||
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