• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:44
CEST 16:44
KST 23:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach0[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach StarCraft Human 'N' AI League BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27!
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9861 users

TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance chan…

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6322 Posts
June 17 2026 08:28 GMT
#61
On June 12 2026 06:11 ProTech wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2026 05:58 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On June 12 2026 05:01 ProTech wrote:
In theory, a slowed down game should cater to lower tiers of play, at least that's how it was from 1998 - 2015

my sister-in-law loves the lore and the campaign. At best, she was a Gold level player in 1v1s. She preferred the slowed down game. She quit playing 1v1 after the LOTV expansion. She continued to play 2v2s with me in the WoL mode until Blizzard merged the different ladders 2v2s into 1.

i prefer the C&C "fast and fluid" feel that develops out of LotV's higher worker count. However, if they slow down the economy with this patch i'll give it a shot



Right, and I think that gamers in RTS on average share a similar perspective. AOE franchise is doing extraordinarily well and I think a very large portion of that player base are Starcraft gamers that simply made the switch NOT because they think SC is bad, but because the way that LoTV is designed is extremely bad for a casual experience.

And what Blizzard got wrong for a very VERY long time is trying to cater more to the e-sports scene rather than catering to actual players, which is what resulted in its overall demise.

AoE multiplayer is not good at all for the casual experience. The games last way too long. The typical rts fan is relatively old. I don't have time to play 30-40 minute games. Additionally there are like 50 civs you have to learn. I've been following Hera's streamer invitational somewhat. One the primary problems they encounter is that they'll match a civ with a unique unit and have no idea what it does.
mathphyswithvic
Profile Joined April 2024
33 Posts
June 17 2026 08:39 GMT
#62
On June 17 2026 17:09 ProTech wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2026 14:00 mathphyswithvic wrote:
On June 15 2026 07:59 WombaT wrote:
On June 14 2026 18:46 Drahkn wrote:
SC2 balance has never truly been addressed, they have played wack a mole since release and to scared of major redesign and did easy quick fixes throughout its lifespan. Only a true redesign and major changes like adding or removing units will put this game where it should be. Needs a new vision

It is quite a bloody well-balanced game with genuine factional assymetry, and has been for years.

I do agree there’s been some scope for more radical design changes for quite some time, 100% on board there, but I think one can also neglect the former somewhat.



So regarding balance, I quite disagree.

People have the false impression that if winrate is ~50% it is a balanced game (yay mathematics, nay logic).

MMR system is designed in this way, so in no way having 50% winrate across the board implies it is a balanced game.

Let us do a gedankenexperiment (thought experiment), albeit exagerated:

Imagine this: every time you get over 50% winrate vs Terran, you face Maru, and quite suddenly the MMR SYSTEM humbles your over 50% winrate by making you lose (well what you expect vs Maru?), and return back to 50%.

While this experiment is purely imaginary, the idea stands. Unless you are top top or bottom bottom you will hover around 50% win rate and this is where majority of ladder hovers. Moreover, it is not indicative of game balance, at all.

edit1: p.s. in my opinion, the only metric that truly shows balance, is tournament wins.


no casual player base, no pro scene. it's a pretty bad idea to try and balance the game around the pro scene. while I do agree that tournament metrics are pretty much the only indication of balance, if you want the game to succeed you better be making it fun for the casual player base, not the top .0000001% playerbase.


note:

I did not mention how to balance it.

I just said the only metric that shows the true balance is the pro scene. (but this is up for debate)

Again, two different things.

p.s. contrary to what people who don't understand how mmr works, claiming game is balanced.
TheMax
Profile Joined July 2026
3 Posts
July 05 2026 20:05 GMT
#63
Protoss player since bw here. I wonder why they decided to revert the gates to be manually opened again like 10 years ago. We went through a lot of Krap during the years and finally managed to get a quite balanced game and now they go back again to crappy stuff? Mmmmmh... dunno brothers, there must be something boiling behind this sc2½ patch. Anyway i'm not one who complains much about it, this thing gave me the will to play again... but it feels the whole thing is going in the wrongest direction possible. How many months will it require to fix all the imbalances? Why did they drop patches/hot fixes with no time for trying things? Are they trying to destroy our beautiful and skillful game? Hopefully not....
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzStarbuck 263
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 73562
Shuttle 2545
EffOrt 902
Mini 805
Light 561
Last 516
Rush 457
ZerO 394
Stork 345
firebathero 325
[ Show more ]
BeSt 286
Snow 247
Mong 155
Hyun 38
ToSsGirL 36
NaDa 34
HiyA 31
sorry 24
Trap 22
Bale 19
zelot 19
JulyZerg 16
Rock 10
Sexy 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
Gorgc9071
qojqva1396
Counter-Strike
Fnx 947
edward146
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King45
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor302
Other Games
B2W.Neo1054
Liquid`RaSZi540
Beastyqt294
ArmadaUGS155
KnowMe94
QueenE75
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream24264
StarCraft 2
WardiTV792
Other Games
BasetradeTV271
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 10
lovetv 8
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3381
Other Games
• WagamamaTV291
• Shiphtur99
Upcoming Events
Yamato Cup
16m
BSL Open Qualifier
4h 16m
BSL Open Qualifier
4h 16m
OSC
8h 16m
Replay Cast
9h 16m
Afreeca Starleague
19h 16m
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
20h 16m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 1h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 19h
Leta vs Soulkey
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Online Event
5 days
FEL
6 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.