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Team Liquid Map Contest #19 - Presented by Monster Energy

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Team Liquid Map Contest #19 - Presented by Monster Energy

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byv1
October 24th, 2023 09:53 GMT
TLMC18
The Team Liquid Map Contest is back for its 19th edition, and this time, we're giving it a big twist: It's the Freestyle-only Contest! That's right, we're only taking submissions in the "Freestyle" category of maps as we look for new and creative directions for competitive StarCraft II.

We thank Monster Energy for being the presenting sponsor of TLMC for the second straight contest, allowing us to keep this vital program going. As we mentioned during TLMC #18, this year's contractions in the StarCraft II scene meant there was a possibility that TLMC would not take place at all. With Monster Energy's support, we can continue to work together with map-makers to renew the map pool and revitalize the game we've loved for over thirteen years.

Of course, we also thank ESL for continuing its partnership with TLMC. The ESL Pro Tour will continue to be updated with TLMC maps, and the most suitable maps will also be proposed to be included on the official StarCraft II ladder.

We begin now with the map submission phase, which will continue until November 17th.

Schedule Update: Due to unexpected changes in the competitive tournament calendar, we have adjusted the schedule for TLMC. The new key dates are as follows:

Submission Phase
-Oct 23 - Nov 17

Judging Phase
-Nov 18 - Dec 4

QA Phase 1
-Dec 5 - December 20rd

Test Tournament
-Dec 20 - Dec 23

Voting
- Dec 23 - January 1 (subject to change)


Freestyle Contest

Description: Maps in this category explore new ideas for how StarCraft II can be played. This category is intended for creative, unorthodox, and outside-the-box maps.

List of allowed and disallowed features (click)

Please read this list before starting the map creation process. While this version of TLMC promotes creative maps, we have set limitations in order to future-proof maps against later patches and changes, ensure maps are portable to the ladder, ensure units maintain their expected pathing behavior, and to prevent maps from being overly unintuitive for newer players. The north star when designing maps for this contest should be "legibility and ease of understanding to players."

Asides from the explicitly disallowed elements above, there are no 'hard lines' regarding the implementation of non-standard features. Maps will be judged in their entirety, not on the number or types of non-standard elements used.

  • General note from ESL: "We would like to clarify that while we have 'allowed' a lot of non-standard elements to be implemented, we still believe that it is very important to make the overall map feel as simple as possible so we don't end up with a combination of counter-intuitive and casual-unfriendly mechanics."
  • Examples of features that can be included:
    • Healing shrines
    • Heavy or atypical usage of backdoor entrances with Mineral Walls/Reduced Mineral Patches.
    • Inhibitor and Accelerator Zones.
    • Non-standard numbers of mineral nodes or Vespene geysers at bases.
    • Semi-island starting positions
    • Neutral Zerg buildings as 'timed' obstructions
    • 3+ Starting positions
  • Map dimension guidelines: The "playable" area of the map should be approximately between 14,000 and 20,000 (NOT the "camera" or "full" measurements in the editor). This is a recommendation, not a hard restriction, especially given the Freestyle-focused nature of this contest.
  • Past Examples:
    • (Wiki)Altitude
    • (Wiki)Bridgehead
    • (Wiki)Crevasse
    • (Wiki)Foxtrot Labs
    • (Wiki)Icarus
    • (Wiki)The King Sejong Station
    • (Wiki)Golden Wall
    • (Wiki)Neon Violet Square
    • (Wiki)Stargazers
    • (Wiki)Zen

Other Restrictions

  • No custom textures or Force Fields.
  • No custom data which modifies units.
  • Maps must meet Melee mode requirements: Triggers can't be edited, and Data needs to comply with Melee, legibility and QA requirements.

Focus on Quality Assurance

The Team Liquid Map Contest has always welcomed a broad range of submissions within the tournament rules, regardless of the experience of the mapmaker. However, this leads to a number of submissions that do not meet the standards for competitive StarCraft II, or are poorly optimized for in-game performance.

Since we do not wish to tighten the standards for submitting a map, we request that map-makers conduct as much debugging and quality assurance as reasonably possible before submitting maps to TLMC. This will reduce strain on TLMC and ESL staff, and help assure that high quality, refined maps are added to the competitive map pool.

Factors to consider in QA include, but are not limited to:
  • Unit pathing
  • In-game performance (too many doodads is a frequent culprit)
  • Correct line-of-sight blocker implementation
  • Mineral/gas placement
  • Compatibility of natural expansion chokes with standard wall-offs
  • Unintended drop locations
  • Removal of misc. remnants from map creation/testing phase
Please use resources such as video documentation of TLMC map feedback, previous TLMC feedback threads, and community groups such as the “Mappers’ Circle” Discord server to learn more about the principles behind high-end map-making. In particular, community groups can be invaluable for map-making discussion and getting feedback on your maps.

Suggestions and Notes

  • We highly recommend that map-makers submitting maps join the “Mappers’ Circle” Discord server where the majority of participants and staff are likely to be active.
  • For clarification, maps submitted to other map competitions may be submitted to TLMC #19 as well.
  • Maps with insufficient edge-map distance have been an issue in past map pools. While recent map pools have mostly avoided this problem, we still recommend map-makers leave a modicum of air space between playable ground areas and map edges.
  • Overlord high ground scout positions over naturals have a large impact on gameplay and should be sized and placed carefully. We want to remind everyone that while these spots are still acceptable, they are not required, and we’d like to see a greater variety in how they’re placed.
  • When deciding to utilize a gold base, make sure there is some sort of risk associated with them. Otherwise, gold mineral bases with low risk tend to usually favor Zerg over the other races.
  • Be careful when adjusting the number of mineral nodes, Vespene geysers, or rich Vespene geysers at bases, especially in the main and natural, as it could impact balance between races and/or matchups.
  • During the iteration phase of the competition (more on this below), small changes are often more desirable than large radical changes that dramatically alter the map’s direction.


Post contest map iteration

We want to give the map-makers an opportunity to edit their maps after the contest period to make any adjustments if necessary. Hopefully this will give the map-makers more control and a chance to make improvements based on any feedback from ESL, pro players, or the community at large.

After the contest, map-makers will be contacted by ESL or TLMC staff in order to make improvements and get their maps into a ladder-ready state before the next ladder season. For instance, map-makers can make small adjustments to the maps such as changes to Reaper cliffs. Results from our performance tests will also be made available to map-makers who can use those results to improve performance.

Contest Phases

Note: The default timezone for TLMC is Pacific Standard Time (PST). While countdowns and specific times should be converted to local timezone on the TL.net website, PST will be used whenever we "just" use dates in posts. For example: the end date for submissions is November 17th. So the deadline is November 17th at 11:59 PM PST.

Submission Phase

October 24 - November 17

To ensure that maps are ladder-appropriate and have minimal performance issues, please conduct as much quality assurance as possible on your maps before submitting them to TLMC.

Pre-Judging Feedback
Due to the unusual nature of this contest, we are bringing back a limited pre-judging feedback phase so map-makers can work with TLMC staff to iron out potential issues before maps are officially submitted. All maps that are submitted before November 9th will be eligible for feedback from TLMC staff. Please keep in mind that maps with positive feedback or have had issues fixed as a result of this review process are not guaranteed to be selected for the Top 16.

TLnet Judging Phase

November 18 - December 4

Once submissions have closed, maps will go through an initial screening by TLMC staff. The remaining maps will be submitted to a judge panel that may include professional players, community figures, and map-makers. If you are a professional player and would be interested in helping out, PM us. Together, the judges will trim down all submissions to a final 16 that will be used in the next stages of the contest. Map-makers win $200 in prize money for each map that finishes in the final 16.

Note: All submissions are anonymized before being sent on to the judges. Only the main admins of the contest have access to who the submitters are.

Test Tournament & Public Voting

December 20th - January 1

The exact dates for the Test Tournament and subsequent voting have not been 100% finalized as we are adjusting our schedule around the holidays and SC2 tournament calendar.

The test tournament phase allows everyone to see the new maps being played by some of the best players in the world. For the eleventh time, we will be working together with Wardi to hold the TLMC test tournament.

As with previous TLMC's, we will make a public post introducing the sixteen finalist maps. Map-makers who make the top 16 will be given the opportunity to submit extra screenshots and link to YouTube or Twitch VODs of their map being played. We will also be collecting information about what they've changed and will mention the changes in the voting post. All this information will be sent out in a PM to the 16 finalists after the tournament phase.

Finally, the public will then vote on the final versions of these maps. Public voting determines how much additional prize money the map-makers win. Voting DOES NOT directly determine which maps will be chosen to be included in the ESL Pro Tour, although ESL may reference community opinion in their decision (TL.net may audit votes if it notices botting or other irregular voting patterns).

Iteration Phase

December 20 to TBD

The iteration phase has become a vital part for map-makers in TLMC. It gives them a chance to fix smaller issues that may have been caught during the tournament phase. Note that smaller fixes are often better than huge changes.

TLMC Winners Announced

Shortly after the conclusion of the voting phase, we will present the final standings.

ESL will consider the sixteen finalist maps, and possibly some maps outside of the top sixteen (examples: Radhuset Station, Alcyone, and Site Delta from TLMC #18), for inclusion in the next season of the ESL Pro Tour. ESL will also propose the selected EPT maps for inclusion into the next official ladder rotation.

Prize Distribution

Thanks to Monster Energy, TLMC #19 will feature a prize pool of $3750.

All finalist maps (top 16): $200 base prize

First place - $200

Second place - $125
Third place - $100
Fourth place - $75
Fifth place - $50


How To Submit Maps

Submission Rules

  • Map-makers will be limited to five(5) map submissions each.
  • Please designate each map with the traditional TLMC category it most closely aligns with: Rush, Standard, or Macro. Refer to TLMC 18 for the definition of these categories.
    • This information will ONLY be used to aid internal sorting alongside other subcategories.
    • There are no submission limitations regarding these subcategories (Example: You can submit 5x "Standard" maps.
    • There is no minimum or maximum finalist quota per subcategory (Example: There could be 0x finalists from "Standard" submissions)


Please PM your map file(s) to TL Map Contest with the below format by November 17th. Please title your PMs with the name of the map. You must submit one PM for each map (five maps = five PM submissions). Once your map has been received you will receive a PM back confirming that we have received it. If you have not received a reply within 24 hours, please contact us directly. We may also PM you back requesting missing information. Your entry will not be officially confirmed until any issues with the submission have been resolved.

If you want to submit a revised map for the contest before the end of submissions, please send us a reply in the original PM chain on TLnet. This to ensure there are no mixups in the submission process.

The submission PM must contain:
  • Map name
  • A download link to your map
  • A picture of your map. Please use the standard 90° top down overview—do not use any angled or tilted images. Please mark start locations and describe any starting location constraints. You may attach additional images to highlight map features if you wish, but the top-down view is most important.
  • The map subcategory (for sorting purposes only): Rush, Standard, or Macro
  • The size (dimensions) of the map
  • Number of bases (note the number of bases with rich minerals and/or Vespene)
  • Main to Main distance (in-game seconds using a worker from town hall to town hall)
  • Top of main ramp to top of main ramp distance (in-game seconds using a worker)
  • Natural to Natural distance: (in-game seconds using a worker from town hall to town hall)
  • Any relevant analyzer images (optional)
  • A description of the map: This is a very useful resource for judges and TLMC admins who are examining dozens of maps, so please try to be both informative and concise. We recommend around 800 characters at most, although this isn't a hard limit.
    • Point out any alternate resources, destructible rocks, or other elements that aren't obvious at first glance.
    • Explain the general concept and style of the map
    • Describe the features that distinguish it from 'normal' maps
    • Check out some of the map descriptions provided by the TLMC #17 finalists. As a specific example, here is Marras' short description of Stargazers from TLMC #16:

      Stargazers offers the opportunity to either play standard games or make things a bit more spicy by opening up the path through the pocket natural.

      Features:
      • There are 12 blue bases in total plus one gold base at the 6 o'clock position
      • The pocket naturals have a standard amount of minerals and gas but the base is blocked by two mineral nodes with the value of 10 per each
      • The minerals blocking the ramp leading from the pocket natural have a value of 40 each making opening up that path a big commitment if done by the attacker
      • Line of sight blockers are situated in the middle area and the bottom of the map
      • The Xel'naga Tower at the 12 o'clock position can see a little bit of the outermost parts of the pocket natural mineral lines.

The map FILE must contain:
  • A short gameplay description: There is a field for this with a limit of 300 chars. You can include some flavor text here, or base it on the gameplay description from your map submission.


Entries not in this format may be excluded from consideration. Please do not send questions to the 'TL Map Contest' account; contact TLMC admin Waxangel instead.

Submit your map

FAQ

Q: Do I need to send my map file, or will an image or a link to my map on Battle.net be enough?
We want the map file for this contest, so a link to Battle.net is not sufficient. There will be a huge number of maps to choose from, so we will need to open many of them up in order to check for details that we can't find otherwise. To send your maps, upload them to a file hosting service such as Google Drive, Dropbox, or OneDrive and include the link in your entry.

Q: How do I attach a map file or image to a PM?
The Team Liquid PM system does not support attachments. Instead, use an external image/file hoster such as Google Drive, Dropbox, or OneDrive for map files or Imgur for image files. Please send those links along with your submission.

Q: Can I enter a team map/FFA map into the contest?
Sorry, we will not be accepting non-1v1 maps in this contest. In the past, the Team Liquid Map Contest has occasionally allowed team play maps to be entered and evaluated separately from 1v1 maps, and some of these submissions did eventually reach the ladder map pool. However, we are focusing on only 1v1 maps for this contest. While we hope to hold a team map contest in the future, we cannot guarantee one at this time.

Q: Will the first place map automatically be included in tournaments?
No. ESL will consider the top rated maps, possibly including maps that did not finish in the top 16, for use in ESL tournaments.

Q: How crazy can my maps be?
Although this is a Freestyle-oriented contest, maps still need to be ladder appropriate. Please refer to the first section of this article to read ESL's general note on maps, as well as the detailed list of allowed/disallowed map elements.

Q: I’m interested in the contest, but I’m horrible at map making. What can I do to support the map-makers?
Post in their map threads and give them support, encouragement, and replays on their maps! Giving your favorite map-maker support will be much appreciated by the map-maker. Replays are especially valuable as it helps the map-maker align their design goals with the map with the reality of how people play their map.

If you have any unanswered questions please do not hesitate to ask them below or PM us who will be happy to answer them. Again, we highly recommend you join the “Mappers’ Circle” Discord server.

Best of luck in the competition.
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TL+ Member
Kantuva
Profile Joined April 2010
Uruguay206 Posts
October 24 2023 10:06 GMT
#2
Maaaan

This is gonna get crazzzyyyy


So many possible maps that were never possible, now all unlocked
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | TLMC Volunteer Admin | Join us on: https://mapcave.net/discord
Philippe
Profile Joined October 2020
349 Posts
October 24 2023 10:12 GMT
#3
Might be open to any kind of maps not being Radhuset style, this one is a non-starter for me as a viewer.
I'm just a cynical video game enjoyer who is probably unfazed by many business dealings many would find utterly distasteful, while not strictly illegal by the law as seen in a general sense in the world.
KillerSmile
Profile Joined November 2018
Germany85 Posts
October 24 2023 11:11 GMT
#4
Once more unto the breach,...

Only 3 weeks is gonna be tough, but I'll definitely submit something. Very cool that the size restrictions don't apply and we can submit as many maps of a certain size as we want. I'm sure we're gonna see some wacky maps submitted and I really hope the judges give those more than a fair shake over maps that only have a light sprinkling of freestyle features. Ideally we'd end up with both ends of the spectrum for the finalist selection and also the ladder map pool someday.

One question tho: Do we get bonus points for making our map Monster Energy-themed?
Mapmaker, author of Data-C, Solaris, Ley Lines and Reclamation LE
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10317 Posts
October 24 2023 14:51 GMT
#5
Oh this should be fun!

Even healing shrines and neutral zerg buildings would be allowed? Awesome!
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Cygnus
Profile Joined February 2004
United States844 Posts
October 24 2023 16:00 GMT
#6
Nice, waiting for a 3/4 player healing shrine map!

I'll play a FFA on it regardless.
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8908 Posts
October 24 2023 17:34 GMT
#7
good luck everyone!
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
sidasf
Profile Joined February 2023
75 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-10-24 19:59:36
October 24 2023 19:04 GMT
#8
Are these going to be put on ladder? I abhor the idea of having something like a healing object in SC2 1v1 ladder. Current map pool is great-I don't mean to rain on the parade but I am against the idea of reworking the way so many things work in SC2 at this point in the game's life.

edit: Can someone tell me, are all the new maps in the next pool going to be freestyle then? Or only one? Because when I read "we're only taking submissions in the "Freestyle" category of maps as we look for new and creative directions for competitive StarCraft II." It comes across as the new map pool will only have freestyle maps, which is concerning. I hope I am just misunderstanding.
Cygnus
Profile Joined February 2004
United States844 Posts
October 24 2023 20:05 GMT
#9
It is interesting to theorycraft where a "healing zone" could be.

- Near center for "King of the hill" vibes
- Backdoor expansion location as an "in base" healing area
- On an island for air units only (at least early on)
- Area behind destructible rocks
- At an expansion choke point
- 2 sides of a bridge
- Stacked with slow or fast zones
- An entire vulnerable expansion location

Also the effect of both attacker and defender "healing" during a battle would certainly change some dynamics (I suppose it would depend how large these "zones" intend to be, as well as the healing rate). Admittedly I'd imagine the majority of players would have a big issue with this kind of mechanic in competitive SC2.

Would be highly intrigued by a map that successfully implemented some of these ideas though.


OmniSkeptic
Profile Joined January 2021
Canada68 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-01-25 18:59:36
October 24 2023 21:11 GMT
#10
Thank god for Monster Energy! Without them, new maps would be difficult to source.

This iteration of the competition is super HYPE as so many rules have been lifted!

+ Show Spoiler [Disclaimer] +
The following list contains only the submissions we have full data for. This means many maps and mapmakers may be missing.

Maps marked in red are no longer in consideration for finalists.
Maps that make finalist will be marked in green after judging.

Map categories are only guidelines this TLMC; all maps are "Freestyle" category by default.

Maps are organized according to Rush Distance (top of main ramp to top of main ramp for a worker).



FreeStyle: Rush
Chromatium Dam (124x148) - (29.5s Rush Distance) - TheSwiss
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Additional Images: + Show Spoiler +
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Chromatium Dam is a fine representation of the poor decision-making processes its creator brings to all his StarCraft endeavors. The overarching design goal for this map is to foster exciting, aggressive gameplay, where harassment and run-bys are rewarded. Players with a more passive, macro-oriented gameplay will be glad for the pocket base, but will still need to be wary of the two narrow paths (one in the natural and one in the pocket base) which can be mined open for run-bys and harassment, but are too narrow for rotating larger armies.

Although it is a relatively large map with playable dimensions of 124x148 (area = 18,352), a combination of unsophisticated pathing and poorly-thought-out acceleration zone placement yields a fast rush distance of just under 30 seconds.

Fortunately for us Protoss fans, this quick rush timing is mitigated slightly by the natural choke, which requires only two buildings to thwart those pesky zerglings.

Reaper and blink-stalker timings, too, will be relatively strong on this map, as the full length of the cliff from the natural can be jumped, as well as the cliff from the triangular third. To make life easier on the unfortunate reaper squad, who, at least in my limited Terran experience, tend to have rather dim prospects for longevity, a pair of ladders is provided for their use. They do dangerous work; they shouldn’t be forced to jump around as well. (Byun’s superhuman reapers, of course, have no need of any such accommodations.)

Each player has a base with 1 rich vespene on their side of the map, but these bases are the most far forward and susceptible to attack over the bridge on the left side of the map. There is also a gold base at the 3:00 position, although it will not be easy to hold, as it is fairly exposed with multiple attack paths and a nearby high ground position which includes a watch tower.

Chromatium Dam should encourage high-activity games. It should be enjoyed by StarCraft aficionados who favor a unique Dam map and fast Dam gameplay.

Mineral Mania (124x124) - (31s Rush Distance) - CharactR
+ Show Spoiler +
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There are 3 pocket bases on each side extending out from behind the triangular bases with half the typical mineral yield of a standard base, but with extra mineral patches. there are also forward, reverse-facing, gold expansions.

Pacific Rim (128x128) - (32s Rush Distance) - Patches
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Features an island base surrounded by singular air blockers (these create tight chokes that block command centers which also make air less effective)

Lilith (148x112) - (32s Rush Distance) - nyarla
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Natural has two entrances blocked by rocks which creates two potential walloffs (between rock and geyser, for each entrance individually).
Purple base can be taken and attacked from two sides.

Dark Origin (134x136) - (32s Rush Distance) - Eclipse
+ Show Spoiler +
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Gold Dust (142x130) - (32s Rush Distance) - MayOnFire
+ Show Spoiler +
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Healing Shrines

Cold Steel (124x148) - (32s Rush Distance) - HyperONE
+ Show Spoiler +
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Killswitch (144x136) - (32s Rush Distance) - Volumin
+ Show Spoiler +
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Castle Adventure (128x120) - (33s Rush Distance) - the_music246
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A close rich gas is blocked off by a mineral field. Have fun in this one of a kind retro landscape. Collab project with Zuratu

Gilded Veins (138x136) - (33s Rush Distance) - OmniSkeptic
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Additional Images: + Show Spoiler +
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This map has "reaper mountains" where deadspace usually is next to and behind the main (as well as some Colossus-exclusive paths and more mountains in the top right). The obvious use case is reapers (although the entrance is blocked by bleeding-out Greater Spires to limit rushes). However, there are other more interesting use-cases we hope players can explore.

The interaction between drops and defending units is modified. Stalkers may, for instance, blink onto the mountains in the hope of deflecting drops that would usually be safe. However, because stalkers are large and the mountain range has narrow paths, overzealously blinking stalkers could get stuck and collapsed on by units like Marauders. Lots of room for creativity by the players. Please keep in mind that siege tanks cannot be dropped in these mountain regions. The lone healing shrine in the middle of the map is blocked by rocks, an air-blocker, and has an inhibitor zone on top of it. It is also very exposed, being surroundable by 360 degrees. The line third has 3 geysers, but one mines less than optimally and all 3 geysers have reduced gas counts and will mine out quickly.

Features:
Reaper Mountains/ Colossus-Only Pathing (Greater Spires blocking portions)
Linear third has 3 geysers but less total gas (1000 each instead of 2250)
1 Healing Shrine with air-blocker and inhibitor zone
Southwestern rocks start damaged
Main ramp that starts standard but can be opened for faster defensive rotation in lategame

Deadwind (136x136) - (34s Rush Distance) - OmniSkeptic
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Additional Images: + Show Spoiler +
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This map pulls no punches in letting the player with the strongest aggression shine. With 9 maps now in the pool, Deadwind hopes to spice up the game by refreshing the roster of possible build orders, especially in mirror matchups where asymmetrical balance is less of a concern. The natural only has 1 gas geyser, but the main's second geyser is rich to compensate (briefly blocked by low-HP rocks). In the long term, you exchange increased gas income for less total gas since the combined main and nat have one geyser less than usual. The HP value on the garage blocking the rich gas has been set such that the player can pull workers off minerals to attack the gas briefly in order to maintain a relatively "normal" second gas timing. The main base ramp is larger than usual, and is relatively easily openable since the extra space is walled only with a rock, equivalent in health to a supply depot. The natural base is also exposed by having two entrances - there are a multitude of ways to wall in either direction at the choke (including a pylon indicator for the "standard" walloff). Unbuildable plates are used in key locations to block defensive structures. Features the largest ramp ever on an SC2 map. A risky rich base sits in the center.

Features (per side):
A fake base is in the outside of the map in the corner (don't get confused)
Rock-blocked rich gas in the main
Only one gas in the natural
Rocks on main and natural ramps
Many ways to wall at natural
Risky Gold base
Biggest ramp ever

Coral Ruins (136x136) - (34s Rush Distance) - Skypirinha
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Mycelium (132x140) - (34s Rush Distance) - Skypirinha
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Your first expansion location has 3 entrances, two of which are completely blocked:
one by rich minerals with 42 minerals (highground vision needed to blink over), the other by two layers of regular destructible rocks (can't blink over with all rocks present).
The rush distance shortens by 4 seconds if one player mines open the golden mineral wall. The main base's ramp is located inside the natural's mineral line.

Heart of Darkness (156x136) - (36s Rush Distance) - Skypirinha
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The heart shape creates much air space around bases, where some Inhibitor Zone Generators are slowing down air units.
When the large rocks in the center is taken out the rush path shortens drastically (6 seconds).
The back entrance two the main base is blocked by 3 layers of mineral wall with 5 minerals in each node and leads to a completely blocked off section on the map with 5 bases in total.
But there are further entrances to this area blocked by mineral walls and rocks. In the center is a watchtower surrounded by line of sight blockers granting vision of the lowest terrain level.


FreeStyle: Standard
Cobblestone (132x132) - (33s Rush Distance) - CharactR
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While the path down the center is very direct for small units, it is chalked full with dragons teeth fortifications that create choke points and force larger units to move through 3 chicanes. There are also central hybrid expansions blocked by conjoined 2x2 debris.

sugomA (Deprivation) (148x124) - (33s Rush Distance) - HyperONE
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Space Temple 20XX (136x138) - (33s Rush Distance) - Zuratu
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Southern Sky (142x132) - (33s Rush Distance) - monitor
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Southern Sky features an in-base third expansion behind the natural and a backdoor path blocked half by a mineral wall and half by a stack of four destructible rocks. To access the third base, players must mine two mineral patches blocking the CC/hatch/nexus containing 20 minerals per node.

Features
- In-base third expansion blocked by two mineral patches (20min per patch), requiring 8 total worker trips
- The backdoor path is blocked on one half by four stacked 6x6 destructible rocks and three rows of gold minerals on the other half. The stack of destructible rocks uses four different models for visual clarity, and takes 12 roaches approximately 1:19 to destroy. The three rows of gold minerals contain 7 min per node, meaning three separate worker trips will create a small pathway.
- Defenders can create a full wall behind the destructible rocks with two gateways or two barracks
- The in-base CC/hatch/nexus cannot be hit by siege tanks from outside the rocks or the lowground
- Attackers may break the rocks as an additional attack path in the mid-game while defenders may break the rocks to expand linearly on the map in the late-game

Crimson King (142x134) - (33s Rush Distance) - MayOnFire
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Super saturated mineral base (10m+2g),
Alternative expansion pattern

Crimson Court (124x148) - (34s Rush Distance) - monitor
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Crimson Court features a semi-island configuration where the sides of the map are blocked off by stacked destructible rocks and mineral walls. Players can choose to mine out the minerals or break the stacked rocks to expand.

Features
- Two gold mineral walls featuring 5 minerals per node: one at the natural and one at the third.
- Six sets of stacked destructible rocks leading to the “islands” - rocks are stacked in groups of 3 and use separate rock models for visual clarity in-game (rocks + debris). Rocks by the high yield base are 6x6 and rocks on ramps are 4x4, which both contain the same health and armor.
- Two high yield gas bases in the center of the map (8m1HYg)
- No minerals or CC/hatch/nexus can be hit by siege tanks from behind rocks or mineral walls. Careful placement of resources prevents cannon and tank spots.

Javelin (130x140) - (34s Rush Distance) - monitor
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Javelin features four small ramps that players naturally pass through on the rush path. There are also small ramps at the corner late-game expansions on an otherwise standard map layout. Players must move their armies carefully and make key strategic choices while weighing whether to use the fast, narrow pathways or longer open paths.

Features
- Players naturally pass through four small ramps on their way to the enemy, including two 2x ramps partially blocked by minerals. Each node is 5 minerals each, meant to be mined by the defender when expanding linearly.
- Two sets of large diagonal destructible rocks can be broken to open up important areas of the map
- Players may choose to expand aggressively or defensively, or risk the exposed high yield geyser base
- Corner expansions can only be accessed via the 1x ramp, making army positioning for attacking and defending important

Genos (136x136) - (34s Rush Distance) - KillerSmile
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Torches (128x144) - (34s Rush Distance) - KillerSmile
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BF1138 (144x140) - (34s Rush Distance) - Zuratu
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Lush Green Bush (140x144) - (34s Rush Distance) - Skypirinha
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There are bushes on the map which allow all units to path through, but larger armies will have a more difficult time.
These bush clusters also favour ranged units over melee units, but the map is more open otherwise.

El Dorado (156x120) - (34s Rush Distance) - Eclipse
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Infestation Station (156x124) - (34s Rush Distance) - Skypirinha
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Neutral Zerg infestation has taken over parts of the map, the spawning pools and infestation pits are not on creep and will decay after a while.
The corner areas and the gold bases are blocked at the start. A spawning pool in your natural helps you to see when the spawning pools will die.
The nydus worms can be killed to remove the creep underneath the evolution chambers so that they will start loosing HP as well.

MonkeyBone (124x140) - (34.5s Rush Distance) - Acheron
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MonkeyBone gives players the option of expanding forward or backward with advantages and disadvantages to both.
Features:
An exposed pocket gold that when mined out will create a new entrance to the defender’s base
3 and 9 o’clock bases that overlook the middle of the map, rewarding keeping map control.
Xel’Naga towers help an attacker punish the gold by revealing flanks, without oppressively viewing the center of the map.
Line of sight blockers in the center of the map.

Dragon Teeth (128x124) - (35s Rush Distance) - CharactR
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The Dragons Teeth are ancient terran fortifications designed to stop tanks and larger units, while allowing small infantry units to pass. 2 sets of them impede movement towards the pocket hybrid base, while the middle set creates a killzone for larger units crossing this short map.

Riptide (128x124) - (35s Rush Distance) - the_music246
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The natural base is connected to a triangle third that has both gasses blocked by minerals. That same third is also walled off with a large mineral wall that can be opened. Lowground water puddles are not buildable but do provide ample splashing opportunity.

Moonwater (150x132) - (35s Rush Distance) - monitor
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Moonwater features a semi-island area at the top of the map containing a gold base. To access the island, players must mine the central mineral wall or mine out their base below the natural. Each of these bases contains two extra mineral patches with 10 minerals per node for quick access to the island.

Features
Semi-island area at the top of the map with a 6m2g gold expansion
Central ramp mineral wall containing 3 rows of 5 min per node
The expansions that form mineral walls to the semi-island (below each player’s natural) have two extra nodes with 10 minerals per patch. Mining these nodes can be done with four worker trips, allowing any size unit to quickly access the island.

Helix (140x124) - (36s Rush Distance) - Volumin
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Old Magannatha (144x144) - (36s Rush Distance) - HyperONE
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The Grid (148x140) - (36s Rush Distance) - the_music246
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The fastest route and gold base are blocked by low mineral fields. When traveling inside the exhaust vents, they block vision of the outside terrain acting as the inverse of line of sight blockers. There is a central Healing Shrine near the bottom center of the map off the beaten path. The map has 5 levels all consecutively going lower down the map.

Ashenguard (140x140) - (38s Rush Distance) - MayOnFire
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Heavy use of mineral walls

Royal Gardens (144x136) - (Unknown Rush Distance) - Pklixian
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FreeStyle: Macro
Sonder (144x132) - (33s Rush Distance) - KillerSmile
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Twin Time Trees (138x136) - (33s Rush Distance) - OmniSkeptic
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Legend has it the foliage sucks the soul out of those who stare at it for too long. There are two entrances to the natural base with no way to quickly offensively rotate between them. This sharp divergence of natural base openings leads to both sides having a somewhat approximate linear expansion pattern (usually there is a linear expansion and a distinctly triangular expansion). The interior of the map is lined with half bases. The healing shrine is placed extremely close to a base, but is blocked by mineral fields which make it very difficult to open. The defender will have the privilege of deciding when this healing shrine should be used - if at all. The healing shrine has an anti-air blocker.

Features (per side):
Extremely separated halfs of the map
Natural base that can be attacked from multiple angles but starts partially fortified on both sides
1 mineral-blocked healing shrine (no air units permitted)
Several half bases located in the interior
1 inhibitor zone

Silverflame (144x144) - (33s Rush Distance) - KillerSmile
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Anomaly Found (146x124) - (34s Rush Distance) - OmniSkeptic
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This map sets out to give the player maximum choice of base expansion patterns. In order to force players out of turtling positions, up to 8 bases have -33% reduced mineral/ gas count, especially the bases clustered around the center of the map (new to TLMC19). The rocks at the natural base have had their HP reduced upon game start to make it easier to break that set of ramps in the mid-lategame (new to TLMC19). Healing shrines reside in very conservative positions in the corners of the map, equipped with air blockers to prevent certain builds being overpowered (new to TLMC19). Destroying rocks in the center of the map allow for more opportunities to flank fortified positions. Some expansions feature exposed mineral lines to provide the enemy with extra opportunities to break strong defensive setups. Bases with reduced resource counts have red warning lights on the geysers and the aesthetics of the mineral fields differ.

Features (per side):
3 gateway wall at natural
Variety of expansion patterns
1 half base
2 -33% reduced (900-patch-only) resource bases
1 -33% reduced (900-patch-only) single rich gas base
1 Healing Shrine
1 Acceleration Zone
12 Identified [REDACTED]

Battle.net description: "WARNING! [REDACTED] C-37 DETECTED! With 4 unique third-base options the midgame will be more unpredictable than other macro layouts and players will take longer to optimize fun out of the map. Many bases have reduced resource counts or are exposed to prevent turtling. Be careful of the lightning!"

Special thanks to Acheron

Tunnel Vision (148x128) - (35s Rush Distance) - CharactR
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This far from standard map has 6 standard-ish bases, 3 pocket bases with reduced resources, and an 8 patch gold mineral wall base that can be accessed by ground once the previous base has been mined out.

Atlantis 2.0 (134x144) - (35s Rush Distance) - Patches
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Features a double ramp main backdoor. The triangular 3rd gives a quick boost but is quickly depleted. The triangular base helps defend the backdoor base. This map also contains healing shrines combined with inhibitor zones.

Mothball Station (148x140) - (35s Rush Distance) - Zuratu
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Tidewalker (144x148) - (33s, 37s Rush Distances) - KillerSmile
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Gridworm (140x148) - (33.5s,36s,38s Rush Distances) - OmniSkeptic
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Close spawns disabled. Asymmetrical 3-in-1 map. Top Left vs. Bottom Right is "Macro". Top Right vs Bottom Left is "Standard". Top vs Bottom on left or right side is "Rush". The "Rush" layout is slightly asymmetrical. Zerg is too good on a large map with 20 bases so to slow them down and force them to play less greedily the lowground has acid water that creep can't spread within. This can always be tweaked if necessary after more testing. Those zerg-y structures in the overview are just normal rocks. Natural base walloff of 2 buildings which can be opened up by killing rocks.

Features:
Top vs Bottom (3 spawn possibilities, no close spawn)
Asymmetry, but only slightly and only in 1/3 of games to minimize competitive impact
No-Creep zones but large size and high base count which counter-act eachother


Battle.net description: "Close spawns disabled. 3-in-1 map. Top Left vs. Bottom Right is "Macro". Top Right vs Bottom Left is "Standard". Top vs Bottom is "Rush". "Rush" layout is slightly asymmetrical. Natural base walloff of 2 buildings which can be opened up by killing rocks. Made by OmniSkeptic powered by Monster Energy"

Special thanks to Acheron

Sacred Isle (138x138) - (35s Rush Distance) - Patches
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Features various expansion paths each offering unique pros and cons. Combines tight chokes, LOS blockers, and acceleration zones to create an interesting dynamic when engaging your opponent.

Antimatter (136x140) - (35s Rush Distance) - the_music246
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Start the game with a choice of a forward natural or a pocket natural with a mineral wall that can be opened up. A gold base sits on the sides of the map rocked off with an inhibitor zone making it harder to defend.

Magma Mines (152x134) - (35s Rush Distance) - the_music246
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A cluster of gold minerals in the mines at the bottom center of the map is on unbuildable ground. Long distance mine the gold for extra income and/or create an alternate attack path to the enemy. Gain control of the center vision tower to hold strategic positioning.

Amphion (140x140) - (36s Rush Distance) - MayOnFire
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Mineral walls and Hybrid-expansions

Corruption (164x164) - (36s Rush Distance) - CharactR
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The mineral wall backdoors create a rotational imbalance on this otherwise 3 way mirrored symmetry map. The island bases can be taken while units are taking out the 1500hp conjoined debris Will you cleanse the corruption or be the one to release it?

Propogation (136x136) - (37s Rush Distance) - Zuratu
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Heartbound (130x148) - (37s Rush Distance) - Plecto
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Heartbound allures with its heart-themed terrain and strategically positioned Xel'Naga watch towers that can be destroyed by collapsing the nearby Cooling tower. Destructible rocks can be destroyed to open up new attack paths. Multiple accessible expansion options.

Tribunal (140x140) - (37s Rush Distance) - Zuratu
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Wild Ark (138x144) - (37s Rush Distance) - nyarla
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Twilight Imperium (160x112) - (38s Rush Distance) - nyarla
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Ramps at all bases that create quite slow and defensive gameplay.
Healing shrines on the lowest ground

Twilight Circuit (138x140) - (38s Rush Distance) - Patches
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Race your way around this twisty macro map.
Twilight Circuit is a macro map that deviates from the norm.

New Magannatha (116x164) - (38.5s Rush Distance) - HyperONE
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Amygdala (142x126) - (39s Rush Distance) - monitor
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Amygdala features two gold bases that form mineral wall blockades to a central “island”. Players must navigate around the island until rocks are broken or a gold base is mined out.

Features
- Two gold bases facing the center, blocked by 4x4 rocks (six zerglings break the rocks in 1:27, four zealots break in 0:45)
- Gold patches are 1200 minerals per node so that all patches mine out simultaneously, creating an army path. This number also maintains the standard resource amount for gold bases (7200 minerals divided evenly, instead of three 1800 patches and three 900 patches)
- Semi-island area in the center contains multiple additional entrances blocked by rocks
- Xel’Naga Towers in the northwest and southeast corners provide valuable scouting information to avoid army and base trading while the island is closed off
- Workers and armies naturally move counter-clockwise until rocks are broken and/or a base is mined out

Rumian Mare (180x108) - (40s Rush Distance) - HyperONE
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Noxious (140x168) - (40s Rush Distance) - nyarla
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18 bases. 2 of them are half bases on main with 4 mineral patches and 1 geyser.



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Sorted By Mapmaker
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Acheron

+ Show Spoiler [MonkeyBone (124x140) - (34.5s)] +

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CharactR
+ Show Spoiler [Mineral Mania(124x124) - (31s)] +

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There are 3 pocket bases on each side extending out from behind the triangular bases with half the typical mineral yield of a standard base, but with extra mineral patches. there are also forward, reverse-facing, gold expansions.

+ Show Spoiler [Cobblestone (132x132) - (33s)] +

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While the path down the center is very direct for small units, it is chalked full with dragons teeth fortifications that create choke points and force larger units to move through 3 chicanes. There are also central hybrid expansions blocked by conjoined 2x2 debris.

+ Show Spoiler [Dragon Teeth (128x124) - (35s)] +

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The Dragons Teeth are ancient terran fortifications designed to stop tanks and larger units, while allowing small infantry units to pass. 2 sets of them impede movement towards the pocket hybrid base, while the middle set creates a killzone for larger units crossing this short map.

+ Show Spoiler [Tunnel Vision (148x128) - (35s)] +

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This far from standard map has 6 standard-ish bases, 3 pocket bases with reduced resources, and an 8 patch gold mineral wall base that can be accessed by ground once the previous base has been mined out.

+ Show Spoiler [Corruption (164x164) - (36s)] +

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The mineral wall backdoors create a rotational imbalance on this otherwise 3 way mirrored symmetry map. The island bases can be taken while units are taking out the 1500hp conjoined debris Will you cleanse the corruption or be the one to release it?


Eclipse
+ Show Spoiler [Dark Origin (156x120) - (32s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [El Dorado (156x120) - (34s)] +

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HyperONE
+ Show Spoiler [Cold Steel (124x148) - (32s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [sugomA (148x124) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Old Magannatha (144x144) - (36ss)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [New Magannatha (116x164) - (38.5s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Rumian Mare (180x108) - (40s)] +

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KillerSmile
+ Show Spoiler [Sonder (144x132) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Silverflame (144x144) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Genos (136x136) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [TideWalker (144x148) - (33s,37s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Torches (128x144) - (34s)] +

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MayOnFire
+ Show Spoiler [Gold Dust (142x130) - (32s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Crimson King (142x134) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Ashenguard (140x140) - (38s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Amphion (140x140) - (36s)] +

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Monitor
+ Show Spoiler [Crimson Court (124x148) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Southern Sky (142x132) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Javelin (130x140) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Moonwater (150x132) - (35s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Amygdala (142x126) - (39s)] +

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Nyarla
+ Show Spoiler [Lilith (148x112) - (32s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Wild Ark (138x144) - (37s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Twilight Imperium (160x112) - (38s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Noxious (140x168) - (40s)] +

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OmniSkeptic
+ Show Spoiler [Gilded Veins (138x136) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Deadwind (136x136) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Twin Time Trees (136x136) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Gridworm (140x148) - (33.5,36s,38s)] +

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Additional Image: + Show Spoiler +
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Close spawns disabled. Asymmetrical 3-in-1 map. Top Left vs. Bottom Right is "Macro". Top Right vs Bottom Left is "Standard". Top vs Bottom on left or right side is "Rush". The "Rush" layout is slightly asymmetrical. Zerg is too good on a large map with 20 bases so to slow them down and force them to play less greedily the lowground has acid water that creep can't spread within.

+ Show Spoiler [Anomaly Found (146x124) - (34s)] +

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Patches
+ Show Spoiler [Pacific Rim (128x128) - (32s)] +

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Features an island base surrounded by singular air blockers (these create tight chokes that block command centers which also make air less effective)

+ Show Spoiler [Atlantis 2.0 (134x144) - (35s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Sacred Isle (138x138) - (35s)] +

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Features various expansion paths each offering unique pros and cons. Combines tight chokes, LOS blockers, and acceleration zones to create an interesting dynamic when engaging your opponent.

+ Show Spoiler [Twilight Circuit (138x140) - (38s)] +

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Race your way around this twisty macro map.


Pklixian
+ Show Spoiler [Royal Gardens (138x136)] +

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Plecto
+ Show Spoiler [Heartbound (130x148) - (37s)] +

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Skypirinha
+ Show Spoiler [Coral Ruins (136x136) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Mycelium (132x140) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Heart of Darkness (156x136) - (36s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Lush Green Bush (140x144) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Infestation Station (156x124) - (34s)] +

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Neutral Zerg infestation has taken over parts of the map, the spawning pools and infestation pits are not on creep and will decay after a while.
The corner areas and the gold bases are blocked at the start. A spawning pool in your natural helps you to see when the spawning pools will die.
The nydus worms can be killed to remove the creep underneath the evolution chambers so that they will start loosing HP as well.


the_music246
+ Show Spoiler [Castle Adventure (128x120) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Riptide (132x140) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [The Grid (148x140) - (36s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Antimatter (136x140) - (35s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Magma Mines (152x134) - (35s)] +

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TheSwiss
+ Show Spoiler [Chromatium Dam (124x148) - (29.5s)] +

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Volumin
+ Show Spoiler [Killswitch (144x136) - (32s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Helix (140x124) - (36s)] +

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Zuratu
+ Show Spoiler [Space Temple 20XX (136x138) - (33s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [BF1138 (144x140) - (34s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Mothball Station (148x140) - (35s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Propogation (136x136) - (37s)] +

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+ Show Spoiler [Tribunal (140x140) - (37s)] +

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Confirmed Submissions We Have No Data On
+ Show Spoiler +
0.5GHz
Teardrinker
Anemone
Velvet Water Paradise
Saeed
Dynasty
Insomniac Doze
Koraal
Sulfur
Circus of Doom
The Strid
Winter Eagle
Post-Youth
Cryovolcano

Mapmaker and M1 Terran from Canada. Most notable maps include 1st place TLMC#19 finalist "Anomaly Found", ladder map "NeoHumanity", and other maps that try to be competitive yet non-standard such as the asymmetrical Gridworm or resource-deviant Deadwind
OmniSkeptic
Profile Joined January 2021
Canada68 Posts
October 24 2023 21:15 GMT
#11
On October 25 2023 04:04 sidasf wrote:
Can someone tell me, are all the new maps in the next pool going to be freestyle then?


No, the current standpoint is that we have a large enough back-catalogue of "Standard", cookie-cutter maps to source for future map pools but more creative maps that are acceptable for ladder are sparse in number. Hopefully this competition gives us some less restricted maps to mix and match in with standard maps in future pools, especially now that we have a much larger map pool.

Frankly, your rejection of the Xel'naga Healing Shrine prior to any experience with its execution reminds me of the initial pessimism about Xel'naga watchtowers. It's just kind of silly.

Mapmaker and M1 Terran from Canada. Most notable maps include 1st place TLMC#19 finalist "Anomaly Found", ladder map "NeoHumanity", and other maps that try to be competitive yet non-standard such as the asymmetrical Gridworm or resource-deviant Deadwind
sidasf
Profile Joined February 2023
75 Posts
October 24 2023 22:13 GMT
#12
On October 25 2023 06:15 OmniSkeptic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2023 04:04 sidasf wrote:
Can someone tell me, are all the new maps in the next pool going to be freestyle then?


No, the current standpoint is that we have a large enough back-catalogue of "Standard", cookie-cutter maps to source for future map pools but more creative maps that are acceptable for ladder are sparse in number. Hopefully this competition gives us some less restricted maps to mix and match in with standard maps in future pools, especially now that we have a much larger map pool.

Frankly, your rejection of the Xel'naga Healing Shrine prior to any experience with its execution reminds me of the initial pessimism about Xel'naga watchtowers. It's just kind of silly.




That is comparing apples to oranges. To call my concern about shrines "silly" is absurd. To put a literal healing mechanism anywhere in the map messes severely with defenders advantage, something that is balanced around very carefully. It's also going to cause race imbalances, something that the balance council has been working on tirelessly with lots of negative feedback from the community recently-if it's this hard to balance the game with conventional maps, think of how hard it's going to be to balance the game with things like healing shrines littered around the map. Have fun balancing races when Protoss is massively overpowered on one map, and super underpowered on another because of map gimmicks

You are messing with all kinds of major game mechanics. SC2 is an RTS, and a finely tuned one. Things like healing shrines remind me of the disaster of shrines in Dota 2 (the exact same mechanic) that were at least completely removed after a few years of clown tier gameplay.

The rest of this post is not directed at you, but in general.

Having every map on the ladder have it's own gimmick is not going to be the fun some people think it is. For example, let Terran quickly heal up early game after depleting medivac energy and then fight again with another strong push? It's just going to lead to people getting frustrated losses and vetoing the map. Or controlling the map with zerglings, healing after a runby and then quickly ending the game again. Build orders and metas are going to be completely out of whack on certain maps.

3+ Starting positions? Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this but ESL wants to bring back random map spawns? There is a reason why we got rid of these. You play protoss, scout the wrong position with your probe, next thing you know you lost to a 12 pool. We used to have things like randomized starting positions many years ago in Starcraft 2, and it's a mistake that we have learned and moved on from.


There is a reason we have standardization for maps in this game. Having wonky maps might seem like fun at first but after playing on them for a couple months, it's going to be the exact opposite of fun. I firmly believe it will make the game more gimmicky and frustrating. It's like playing competitive SSBM rainbow cruise or the F zero map. 1v1 is designed for competitive play. The reason why people play Starcraft 2 1v1 ladder is they can push themselves while enjoying a balanced game without randomness or gimmicks. That all goes out the window when 1v1 ladder turns into Arcade style wonkiness.

I think our current map pool expansion was a great idea. The maps look great, and we have a good mix of standard, and of course plenty of nonstandard maps. I strongly believe we should simply move forward with this formula and not introduce things like random spawns/shrines for the health of the game and it's playerbase.
Monochromatic
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States991 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-10-24 23:31:23
October 24 2023 23:31 GMT
#13
Would an asymmetric map be immediately disqualified?

[image loading]

If an map looks like this, with green being symmetric, and red being chaotic, would it be in consideration?

I'd love to join in, but want to make sure I'm not wasting my time.
MC: "Guys I need your support! iam poor make me nerd baller" __________________________________________RIP Violet
Kantuva
Profile Joined April 2010
Uruguay206 Posts
October 25 2023 00:16 GMT
#14
On October 25 2023 08:31 Monochromatic wrote:
Would an asymmetric map be immediately disqualified?

[image loading]

If an map looks like this, with green being symmetric, and red being chaotic, would it be in consideration?

I'd love to join in, but want to make sure I'm not wasting my time.

Yeah

It would be in consideration. Symmetry is not a strict requirement for SC2 where your map would be instantly Disqualified, but only if the map itself makes cohesive sense in why would you go for an asymmetrical design. asymmetry is a feature just like any other, it needs to make sense in the vision that you have for the map
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | TLMC Volunteer Admin | Join us on: https://mapcave.net/discord
Philippe
Profile Joined October 2020
349 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-10-25 03:50:01
October 25 2023 03:49 GMT
#15
On October 25 2023 06:15 OmniSkeptic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2023 04:04 sidasf wrote:
Can someone tell me, are all the new maps in the next pool going to be freestyle then?


No, the current standpoint is that we have a large enough back-catalogue of "Standard", cookie-cutter maps to source for future map pools but more creative maps that are acceptable for ladder are sparse in number. Hopefully this competition gives us some less restricted maps to mix and match in with standard maps in future pools, especially now that we have a much larger map pool.

Frankly, your rejection of the Xel'naga Healing Shrine prior to any experience with its execution reminds me of the initial pessimism about Xel'naga watchtowers. It's just kind of silly.



This kind of features is why I was referencing Radhuset Station in my post : Anything that makes games too long is a bad for my focus. I can follow without too much effort when players are trading blow for blow., not when they use chokepoints and long rush distances like their livelihood hinges on it. Healing Shrines would have a similar effect regardless of any execution of the idea. Players gotta test it anyway, but won't make the effort to hide my negativity around it.
I'm just a cynical video game enjoyer who is probably unfazed by many business dealings many would find utterly distasteful, while not strictly illegal by the law as seen in a general sense in the world.
KillerSmile
Profile Joined November 2018
Germany85 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-10-25 12:23:23
October 25 2023 08:32 GMT
#16
On October 25 2023 07:13 sidasf wrote:



That is comparing apples to oranges. To call my concern about shrines "silly" is absurd. To put a literal healing mechanism anywhere in the map messes severely with defenders advantage, something that is balanced around very carefully. It's also going to cause race imbalances, something that the balance council has been working on tirelessly with lots of negative feedback from the community recently-if it's this hard to balance the game with conventional maps, think of how hard it's going to be to balance the game with things like healing shrines littered around the map. Have fun balancing races when Protoss is massively overpowered on one map, and super underpowered on another because of map gimmicks

You are messing with all kinds of major game mechanics. SC2 is an RTS, and a finely tuned one. Things like healing shrines remind me of the disaster of shrines in Dota 2 (the exact same mechanic) that were at least completely removed after a few years of clown tier gameplay.

The rest of this post is not directed at you, but in general.

Having every map on the ladder have it's own gimmick is not going to be the fun some people think it is. For example, let Terran quickly heal up early game after depleting medivac energy and then fight again with another strong push? It's just going to lead to people getting frustrated losses and vetoing the map. Or controlling the map with zerglings, healing after a runby and then quickly ending the game again. Build orders and metas are going to be completely out of whack on certain maps.

3+ Starting positions? Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this but ESL wants to bring back random map spawns? There is a reason why we got rid of these. You play protoss, scout the wrong position with your probe, next thing you know you lost to a 12 pool. We used to have things like randomized starting positions many years ago in Starcraft 2, and it's a mistake that we have learned and moved on from.


There is a reason we have standardization for maps in this game. Having wonky maps might seem like fun at first but after playing on them for a couple months, it's going to be the exact opposite of fun. I firmly believe it will make the game more gimmicky and frustrating. It's like playing competitive SSBM rainbow cruise or the F zero map. 1v1 is designed for competitive play. The reason why people play Starcraft 2 1v1 ladder is they can push themselves while enjoying a balanced game without randomness or gimmicks. That all goes out the window when 1v1 ladder turns into Arcade style wonkiness.

I think our current map pool expansion was a great idea. The maps look great, and we have a good mix of standard, and of course plenty of nonstandard maps. I strongly believe we should simply move forward with this formula and not introduce things like random spawns/shrines for the health of the game and it's playerbase.



The idea is not to have healing shrines as a gimmick, but have maps specifically constructed around thier use. Is it even possible to find an acceptable tradeoff where it doesn't just turn into a quick turnaround for units that have just won an engagement to just grab the healing shrine meant for recovery for the defending party and will just prolong the steamroll into a lopsided win with no comeback potential? Who knows, we are here to find out. That's the point of this contest.

Maybe also to clarify, the 3+ spawn positions are being held to a standard where you don't have to scout more than 2 locations, so when you scout one position you at least know where the opponent is as is the case on 3p maps and spawn restricted mirror 4p maps.

Randomness isn't as terrible as you think, as long as you still feel in charge and can adapt to it. If you really think about it the biggest source of randomness in the game is what your opponent is gonna be doing. It provides the sort of novelty that makes people play ladder and rank up and you'll notice it too when it isn't there anymore. People will complain if there is only one viable strat in a matchup (lack of variety) and complain even louder when they get cheesed (can't execute their own gameplan).

So yes, your concerns are valid, but there might be a happy medium to be found that enhances the gaming experience and this contest is there to guide our way towards it.
Mapmaker, author of Data-C, Solaris, Ley Lines and Reclamation LE
OmniSkeptic
Profile Joined January 2021
Canada68 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-10-27 03:41:15
October 27 2023 03:39 GMT
#17
sidasf wrote:
Can someone tell me, are all the new maps in the next pool going to be freestyle then? Having every map on the ladder have it's own gimmick is not going to be the fun some people think it is. For example, let Terran quickly heal up early game after depleting medivac energy and then fight again with another strong push? It's just going to lead to people getting frustrated losses and vetoing the map. Or controlling the map with zerglings, healing after a runby and then quickly ending the game again. Build orders and metas are going to be completely out of whack on certain maps.


There are ways to account for this. One of my maps that uses a healing shrine placed on the secondary/tertiary attack path has a rock placed on top of it to prevent 3 rax from destroying toss, for instance. In the testing so far, I have never seen zerglings use the healing shrine intentionally as they have too little HP to ever need it.

There are race asymmetries to the shrine, but then there's asymmetry to every single feature. The default state of the map, being an open plane without any Terrain adjusted, is itself race asymmetrical (favouring Zerg). Breaking build orders using map features, if we can do it, I see as a plus. It gives creative or multi-task heavy players a way to surprise the opponent and force on-the-fly thinking because their opponent hasn't mapped out and locked down the first 10 minutes of the game perfectly

There's no point to having multiple maps if they are all reskins of the same layout. If we are going to go that route, we'd be better with the League of Legends approach of just using one map for the whole pool.
Mapmaker and M1 Terran from Canada. Most notable maps include 1st place TLMC#19 finalist "Anomaly Found", ladder map "NeoHumanity", and other maps that try to be competitive yet non-standard such as the asymmetrical Gridworm or resource-deviant Deadwind
sidasf
Profile Joined February 2023
75 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-10-27 20:29:58
October 27 2023 20:23 GMT
#18
On October 27 2023 12:39 OmniSkeptic wrote:



There's no point to having multiple maps if they are all reskins of the same layout. If we are going to go that route, we'd be better with the League of Legends approach of just using one map for the whole pool.


This is just a complete misrepresentation of what map pools are like in SC2. Just look at the current map pool, they are anything but "reskins of the same layout". Different rush distances, vulnerable/tougher 3rd/4th base spots, different pillars for vision, tank spots, choke points. The current formula is a result of experimenting and testing for many years through trial and error. There is a reason it's worked well for competitive and casual 1v1 ladder for the last 5+ years.
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
October 28 2023 13:59 GMT
#19
OMG! It's time for 2f0rt!!!!!

Good luck Mappers!
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1458 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-10-30 11:01:56
October 30 2023 11:00 GMT
#20
We've been away from 4 player maps for so long, and the games been fine that I don't really think we should bring it back. Forced RNG is not welcome in a game of skill.

Note: I am not saying you can't do things as a player to account for these changes.
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
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