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For those who haven't seen it, Purelegacy has recently been exposed for cheating in poker
This got me wondering, after he was permabanned by Blizzard's WCS in 2019, why was he was suddenly allowed to compete again when WCS ended and ESL took over from 2020-2022?
This isn't about how good/bad he did those tourneys (mostly NA qualifier) nor about whether he was cheating in those; its a general competitive integrity issue regarding letting someone who was already permabanned by blizzard to compete. It also makes one wonder if there are others abusing the lack of regulation on this matter; but since there aren't any players that have shown suspicious behaviour in game, or only compete online and never in LANs; I don't think this is an issue.
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United States1879 Posts
Fucking Captain Cam at it again.
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It is not on ESL to act upon something which is outside its purview (here poker). As far as the company is concerned, he had a "clean" slate and not an insignificant number of users thought the ban of 2019 wasn't fully justified. Anyway it isn't like he had a big impact afterwards during the EPT era.
THAT said, you would expect him to clean up his act regardless of the game he's playing. Old habits die hard it seems. Gotta wonder how some of those who defended him at that time are feeling now.
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On October 18 2023 02:55 Philippe wrote:
It is not on ESL to act upon something which is outside its purview (here poker). As far as the company is concerned, he had a "clean" slate and not an insignificant number of users thought the ban of 2019 wasn't fully justified. Anyway it isn't like he had a big impact afterwards during the EPT era.
THAT said, you would expect him to clean up his act regardless of the game he's playing. Old habits die hard it seems. Gotta wonder how some of those who defended him at that time are feeling now.
If you'll cheat in one competition with money on the line you'll cheat in anything. Cheaters should be banned regardless of the game they cheated in. It is definitely on ESL to act on it. Obviously they can't keep track of every other competition and ban everyone who cheats in those but if there's a high profile case they should make sure to follow suit. In this instance he's not a significant SC2 player so I would guess and hope that they just didn't know rather than actively chose to let him play.
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lol what a joke that guy is
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United Kingdom20295 Posts
Wasn't he caught cheating / admitting to cheating in sc2, or am i thinking of someone else?
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With a simple google search I got this vod from 8 years ago... He needs to be banned from every competition. As a viewer I don't like people who cheated in other games, but here is an old vod of him cheating long ago. This guy needs to get a day job and stay away from competition, he's scum.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/39617151
Here are the three strikes for me, I am sure there are more.
-Kills scv in dark with reaper
-reacts to drops in dark by moving viking, hellions and even rallies his buildings there too
-Cuts off viking movement with his vikings
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United Kingdom20295 Posts
Yeah the guy admitted to maphacking in sc2 competition, claimed that he wouldn't cheat again, got caught by Blizz and banned afterwards and now got caught cheating in Poker. Case is about as closed as you're gonna get. Weird that ESL let him play.
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Lmao seriously? This guy is cheating in poker now too? Unbelievable lol. This dude cheats or gets accused of cheating in literally everything he does. At this point I am just waiting for Stormgate to come out to read about how he's cheating in that, too.
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blizzard never actually banned Life either and he was still allowed to compete. Granted he didn't cheat, he still lost his competitive integrity. And before people say HEY HEY he was banned! He was banned from Kespa. Not from Blizzard competitions entirely. Point of the matter is different tournament organizers ban at their own discretion. ESL probably wouldn't ban him from ESL tournaments because ESL hasn't conducted the investigation. If he cheated in an ESL tournament and it was brought to their attention and they still didn't ban him, now that is another story.
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I mean, after that scandal with Oliveira missing out on ESL Summer, I am not very surprised with ESL lack of competency/effort in such matter anymore. Hell, they might just have 1 admins assistant and 2 interns at this point taking care of every logistic issue. I doubt if they even know who this guy is and whats his cheating record was.
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Out of curiosity, how do you cheat in online poker? I don't play it, and I couldn't figure it out from the link after a quick browse. Is it a software to let you know what competitor cards or the river will be?
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Northern Ireland25534 Posts
On October 18 2023 07:56 CicadaSC wrote:
blizzard never actually banned Life either and he was still allowed to compete. Granted he didn't cheat, he still lost his competitive integrity. And before people say HEY HEY he was banned! He was banned from Kespa. Not from Blizzard competitions entirely. Point of the matter is different tournament organizers ban at their own discretion. ESL probably wouldn't ban him from ESL tournaments because ESL hasn't conducted the investigation. If he cheated in an ESL tournament and it was brought to their attention and they still didn't ban him, now that is another story.
Didn’t Blizzard basically strip all mention of his achievements from promo materials and instructed their casters to not mention him?
Would be quite an odd thing to do if he was technically OK to play somewhere on your circuit no?
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On October 18 2023 14:24 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2023 07:56 CicadaSC wrote:
blizzard never actually banned Life either and he was still allowed to compete. Granted he didn't cheat, he still lost his competitive integrity. And before people say HEY HEY he was banned! He was banned from Kespa. Not from Blizzard competitions entirely. Point of the matter is different tournament organizers ban at their own discretion. ESL probably wouldn't ban him from ESL tournaments because ESL hasn't conducted the investigation. If he cheated in an ESL tournament and it was brought to their attention and they still didn't ban him, now that is another story. Didn’t Blizzard basically strip all mention of his achievements from promo materials and instructed their casters to not mention him? Would be quite an odd thing to do if he was technically OK to play somewhere on your circuit no?
This was already discussed years ago. I don't want to make this thread too much about him, so we should maybe move the conversation but my only point is that they never formally banned him. No statement was ever made. Here is a similar thread discussing if he were to come back (years ago) maybe you can focus your hypotheticals in this context? Someone makes a similar point as you about his name being removed from the Trophy. Idk. Either way an official banning was never administered. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/s/PZMzz2g3Oi
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On October 18 2023 13:04 FabledIntegral wrote:
Out of curiosity, how do you cheat in online poker? I don't play it, and I couldn't figure it out from the link after a quick browse. Is it a software to let you know what competitor cards or the river will be?
As far as I can tell, cheating by using software that tells you how to optimally play your hand. Similar idea to cheating in Chess by using an engine.
One piece of software that lets you do this is GTO Wizard, and the company that makes that also has a piece of software called GTO Wizard FairPlay Check, which lets you check if anybody has searched for particular hand criteria recently. So that poker forum thread is basically someone using the GTO Wizard FairPlay Check to investigate Purelegacy cheating.
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France12886 Posts
I am not fond of adages like "once a cheater, always a cheater", but there was a dude in the Halo Infinite esports that cheated in a game like Call of Duty or something. In Halo, he was way better online than offline for some reason, and everyone suspected him of wallhacking. He ultimately recorded himself playing live with webcam, and had bad results. Could be due to stress, but most probably he was still cheating (he got dropped from his team anyways)
I don't really know why some people are wired to cheat, but it seems like a part of them is broken.
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Northern Ireland25534 Posts
On October 18 2023 16:26 Poopi wrote:
I am not fond of adages like "once a cheater, always a cheater", but there was a dude in the Halo Infinite esports that cheated in a game like Call of Duty or something. In Halo, he was way better online than offline for some reason, and everyone suspected him of wallhacking. He ultimately recorded himself playing live with webcam, and had bad results. Could be due to stress, but most probably he was still cheating (he got dropped from his team anyways)
I don't really know why some people are wired to cheat, but it seems like a part of them is broken.
Hey if riches are on the line, sure wouldn’t be my thing but that’s pretty understandable. If not?
If you’re just some random online player, what’s the fucking point? It may be my latent arrogance but I quite enjoy proving I’m better than other people at various activities, sadly less common in my old age than it used to be!
If I’m ‘better’ by aimbotting, wallhacking, map hacking I mean I’m obviously not, what’s the fucking point?
Seen it in my other main hobby of music, mainly guitar. Folks passing off faked, sped up videos to show off. Ridiculous. Any player who’s genuinely capable of playing very fast stuff can tell immediately, you need certain mechanical technique to actually pull it off, it’s very obvious if it’s sped up because they don’t have that requisite technique.
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United States33419 Posts
On October 18 2023 15:05 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2023 14:24 WombaT wrote:On October 18 2023 07:56 CicadaSC wrote:
blizzard never actually banned Life either and he was still allowed to compete. Granted he didn't cheat, he still lost his competitive integrity. And before people say HEY HEY he was banned! He was banned from Kespa. Not from Blizzard competitions entirely. Point of the matter is different tournament organizers ban at their own discretion. ESL probably wouldn't ban him from ESL tournaments because ESL hasn't conducted the investigation. If he cheated in an ESL tournament and it was brought to their attention and they still didn't ban him, now that is another story. Didn’t Blizzard basically strip all mention of his achievements from promo materials and instructed their casters to not mention him? Would be quite an odd thing to do if he was technically OK to play somewhere on your circuit no? This was already discussed years ago. I don't want to make this thread too much about him, so we should maybe move the conversation but my only point is that they never formally banned him. No statement was ever made. Here is a similar thread discussing if he were to come back (years ago) maybe you can focus your hypotheticals in this context? Someone makes a similar point as you about his name being removed from the Trophy. Idk. Either way an official banning was never administered. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/s/PZMzz2g3Oi
Seems like a pretty pedantic point to get hung up on?
Even if Blizzard never made an official posting/statement about Life, he was pretty clearly banned from all their competitions afterward. You can't even find the official VODs from the BlizzCon he was in because they scrubbed nearly all their media containing him from YouTube. I can directly ask the head of WCS at the the time "was Life officially banned?" if you want them to confirm an obvious answer 
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On October 18 2023 16:26 Poopi wrote:
I am not fond of adages like "once a cheater, always a cheater", but there was a dude in the Halo Infinite esports that cheated in a game like Call of Duty or something. In Halo, he was way better online than offline for some reason, and everyone suspected him of wallhacking. He ultimately recorded himself playing live with webcam, and had bad results. Could be due to stress, but most probably he was still cheating (he got dropped from his team anyways)
I don't really know why some people are wired to cheat, but it seems like a part of them is broken.
I cheated , scammed , and committed many types of fraud and forgery until i was 19. I haven't done it since. Now, the inflection point where i changed my ways is interesting. However, the over all point is... people can change and the person is not necessarily "broken".
I think harsh punishment, arduous and difficult rehab, and then a 2nd chance is the proper response.
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On October 18 2023 23:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2023 16:26 Poopi wrote:
I am not fond of adages like "once a cheater, always a cheater", but there was a dude in the Halo Infinite esports that cheated in a game like Call of Duty or something. In Halo, he was way better online than offline for some reason, and everyone suspected him of wallhacking. He ultimately recorded himself playing live with webcam, and had bad results. Could be due to stress, but most probably he was still cheating (he got dropped from his team anyways)
I don't really know why some people are wired to cheat, but it seems like a part of them is broken. I cheated , scammed , and committed many types of fraud and forgery until i was 19. I haven't done it since. Now, the inflection point where i changed my ways is interesting. However, the over all point is... people can change and the person is not necessarily "broken". I think harsh punishment, arduous and difficult rehab, and then a 2nd chance is the proper response.
Professional competitions are a privilege that you are granted until you ruin it. He ruined it, at least he should have, ESL probably would ban him if they were not constantly dropping the ball. What ever you did, there were also consequences, maybe you got away with it. Because you live in a developed nation you get second chances.
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EPT
