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Team Liquid Map Contest #18 - Presented by Monster Energy…

Forum Index > SC2 General
86 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
houndofbaskervillee
Profile Joined April 2023
12 Posts
April 14 2023 13:48 GMT
#21
Thank you for the maps, thank you for the show
OmniSkeptic
Profile Joined January 2021
Canada70 Posts
April 14 2023 14:20 GMT
#22
On April 14 2023 20:39 Vision_ wrote:
50$ for the fifth place ? It looks outrageous when it comes to estimate how many time you have to put in making a map.


To be fair if you get fifth you've already got to the finalists and gotten another $200. If you're making maps for the money in the first place, your understanding of how to reliably generate income is skewed. Frankly, a lot of mapmakers would be fine if the TLMC ran without a prize pool at all. That we're able to see increased competition and more engagement from players due to a prize pool is a bonus. Making maps would ideally only be a passion project. I know that's the case for me - increasing the quality of maps and therefore gameplay extends the lifespan of SC2 and that's something I care about
Mapmaker and M1 Terran from Canada. Most notable maps include 1st place TLMC#19 finalist "Anomaly Found", ladder map "NeoHumanity", and other maps that try to be competitive yet non-standard such as Fear and Faith or the asymmetrical Gridworm
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
April 14 2023 14:53 GMT
#23
Please don't let any map with overlord pilars on the natural. They aren't needed since Heart of the Swarm.
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
OmniSkeptic
Profile Joined January 2021
Canada70 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-14 16:36:39
April 14 2023 15:23 GMT
#24
On April 14 2023 23:53 [Phantom] wrote:
Please don't let any map with overlord pilars on the natural. They aren't needed since Heart of the Swarm.

It's okay if maps use them strategically, but yah people are not using them as often as before which is great
Mapmaker and M1 Terran from Canada. Most notable maps include 1st place TLMC#19 finalist "Anomaly Found", ladder map "NeoHumanity", and other maps that try to be competitive yet non-standard such as Fear and Faith or the asymmetrical Gridworm
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-14 18:03:58
April 14 2023 17:31 GMT
#25
On April 14 2023 23:20 OmniSkeptic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2023 20:39 Vision_ wrote:
50$ for the fifth place ? It looks outrageous when it comes to estimate how many time you have to put in making a map.


To be fair if you get fifth you've already got to the finalists and gotten another $200. If you're making maps for the money in the first place, your understanding of how to reliably generate income is skewed. Frankly, a lot of mapmakers would be fine if the TLMC ran without a prize pool at all. That we're able to see increased competition and more engagement from players due to a prize pool is a bonus. Making maps would ideally only be a passion project. I know that's the case for me - increasing the quality of maps and therefore gameplay extends the lifespan of SC2 and that's something I care about


The problem comes to the fact that all map shapes are similar in the beginning of the game. There are some difference between the order of base installation but generally it looks the same. I m not supposed to critizice maps because i ve never done one even if i would really enjoy the process but SC2 is stucked by his economic model, by the lack of risk in harvesting minerals near bases and simplier because of the uniformity of minerals income from one game to another.

To resume, 13 years later, quality graphics doesn t matter if you are used to know the core of the game, which doesn t evolve so much even if mapmakers work better and better

In the end even if the game hasn t been created to simulate a more wargame strategy style, this is how i think, the game has to evolve (like a community mod, as dota )
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
April 14 2023 18:13 GMT
#26
On April 14 2023 15:21 MineraIs wrote:
When will we get a TLMC for broodwar?


Upvote! Mapmaking on BW is active and on fire recently, so many unique maps coming out. Even if prize pool will be twice lower it's good to have it.
sunbeams are never made like me...
KillerSmile
Profile Joined November 2018
Germany86 Posts
April 14 2023 22:45 GMT
#27
On April 14 2023 20:39 Vision_ wrote:
50$ for the fifth place ? It looks outrageous when it comes to estimate how many time you have to put in making a map.


Should maybe add in the post that the prize money for 1st to 5th place is a BONUS on top of the 200 bucks the map already gets for being a top 16 finalist. Many people just read past that part, I know I did at first and I should really know better.

On April 14 2023 23:53 [Phantom] wrote:
Please don't let any map with overlord pilars on the natural. They aren't needed since Heart of the Swarm.


Well, I just uploaded a map without a nat overlord pillar and made a TL post (you can see it on the sidebar). First request I got was to please add an overlord pillar because the rush distance is relatively low. Maybe they aren't technically needed, but they sure are liked by more than just handfull of people.
Mapmaker, author of Data-C, Solaris, Ley Lines, Torches and Reclamation LE
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
April 14 2023 23:07 GMT
#28
Glad to see TLMC is still going on strong. Best of luck to all mappers.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
OmniSkeptic
Profile Joined January 2021
Canada70 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-15 02:06:30
April 15 2023 02:06 GMT
#29
On April 15 2023 07:45 KillerSmile wrote:
First request I got was to please add an overlord pillar


That's because people are lazy and want to set-and-forget it with no downsides. I'm not saying don't give safe places to an overlord. I am saying that if you're gonna put it in a safe place, it shouldn't be giving you a ton of scouting info. That's why safe spaces like the triangular deadspace and deadspace near the nat is fine
Mapmaker and M1 Terran from Canada. Most notable maps include 1st place TLMC#19 finalist "Anomaly Found", ladder map "NeoHumanity", and other maps that try to be competitive yet non-standard such as Fear and Faith or the asymmetrical Gridworm
sidasf
Profile Joined February 2023
83 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-15 02:21:53
April 15 2023 02:16 GMT
#30
On April 14 2023 23:53 [Phantom] wrote:
Please don't let any map with overlord pillars on the natural. They aren't needed since Heart of the Swarm.


According to who, you? Are you one of the people buying into this whole "zerg cabal thing" even though we had TvT grand finals at IEM Katowice? We've had a overlord pillar at the natural of almost every single map for a reason. Without it zergs are going to lose their first overlord to marines/stalkers against a competent player, every time. That's not what the game is balanced around. Pillars at the natural don't provide the zerg with a bunch of info-they don't even let you see if there is a base from the natural. It just provides a safe space to float the overlord (until viking/phoneix is out) and maybe lets you see gas.

What you're asking for is akin to asking people to make a map without good tank spots to defend the terran's first two bases, or a map without ledges for reapers to hop into the main base. How about we disallow any maps that have a reaper ledge to balance that out?

Overlord pillars at the natural and reaper ledges alike both belong in this game.

I do not like your usage of power to coerce people into disallowing a map simply because it upholds traditional map balance architecture.
MrIronGolem27
Profile Joined July 2020
United States214 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-15 03:31:46
April 15 2023 02:48 GMT
#31
On April 15 2023 11:16 sidasf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2023 23:53 [Phantom] wrote:
Please don't let any map with overlord pillars on the natural. They aren't needed since Heart of the Swarm.


According to who, you? Are you one of the people buying into this whole "zerg cabal thing" even though we had TvT grand finals at IEM Katowice? We've had a overlord pillar at the natural of almost every single map for a reason. Without it zergs are going to lose their first overlord to marines/stalkers against a competent player, every time. That's not what the game is balanced around. Pillars at the natural don't provide the zerg with a bunch of info-they don't even let you see if there is a base from the natural. It just provides a safe space to float the overlord (until viking/phoneix is out) and maybe lets you see gas.

What you're asking for is akin to asking people to make a map without good tank spots to defend the terran's first two bases, or a map without ledges for reapers to hop into the main base. How about we disallow any maps that have a reaper ledge to balance that out?

Overlord pillars at the natural and reaper ledges alike both belong in this game.

I do not like your usage of power to coerce people into disallowing a map simply because it upholds traditional map balance architecture.


While I certainly respect your right to maintain and express your own opinion about game balance, I think it is a reach to suggest that a mere TL.net writer has any sort of power in the administration of this contest.
HyperONE - mapmaker (TLMC19 2nd place, TLMC17 3rd+5th place), tournament organizer (organizer for the StarCraft Evolution League and Circle Derping), Liquipedia editor, Aligulac contributor, owner of Team HyperONE, and SC: Evo Complete developer
BelethielQT
Profile Joined August 2022
90 Posts
April 15 2023 11:22 GMT
#32
On April 15 2023 11:16 sidasf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2023 23:53 [Phantom] wrote:
Please don't let any map with overlord pillars on the natural. They aren't needed since Heart of the Swarm.


According to who, you? Are you one of the people buying into this whole "zerg cabal thing" even though we had TvT grand finals at IEM Katowice? We've had a overlord pillar at the natural of almost every single map for a reason. Without it zergs are going to lose their first overlord to marines/stalkers against a competent player, every time. That's not what the game is balanced around. Pillars at the natural don't provide the zerg with a bunch of info-they don't even let you see if there is a base from the natural. It just provides a safe space to float the overlord (until viking/phoneix is out) and maybe lets you see gas.

What you're asking for is akin to asking people to make a map without good tank spots to defend the terran's first two bases, or a map without ledges for reapers to hop into the main base. How about we disallow any maps that have a reaper ledge to balance that out?

Overlord pillars at the natural and reaper ledges alike both belong in this game.

I do not like your usage of power to coerce people into disallowing a map simply because it upholds traditional map balance architecture.


Yes he is one of those people
mrgeek.net
Profile Joined April 2023
Benin4 Posts
April 15 2023 13:18 GMT
#33
--- Nuked ---
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-04-15 14:04:42
April 15 2023 14:04 GMT
#34
Rule in the TLMC article :

Overlord high ground scout positions over naturals have a large impact on gameplay and should be sized and placed carefully. We want to remind everyone that while these spots are still acceptable, they are not required, and we’d like to see a greater variety in how they’re placed


Is it just a rule to place these spots carefully not too near from bases ...
Legan
Profile Joined June 2017
Finland402 Posts
April 15 2023 14:48 GMT
#35
On April 15 2023 23:04 Vision_ wrote:
Rule in the TLMC article :

Show nested quote +
Overlord high ground scout positions over naturals have a large impact on gameplay and should be sized and placed carefully. We want to remind everyone that while these spots are still acceptable, they are not required, and we’d like to see a greater variety in how they’re placed


Is it just a rule to place these spots carefully not too near from bases ...


The announcement text changes only little over time. That particular bit is several years old. At some point Blizzard gave that note to organizers and it has stayed in the post since. There are only few strict rules like no Renegate Missile Turrets. The most are vague guidelines that are not that followed if at all.
Creator of Gresvan, Tropical Sacrifice, Taitalika, and Golden Forge
themusic246
Profile Joined December 2012
United States211 Posts
April 16 2023 04:21 GMT
#36
Also keep in mind that the contest typically only has a modest amount of votes during the voting phase, so if you feel strongly about literally any aspect of the game in terms of map design, just vote.. it counts a lot more than you think and your opinions are actually weighted highly. The outcome of the votes have historically skewed the odds of which maps make it to ladder. That is all.
1st place Blizzard arcade RTC contest. 2x 1st place 1v1 Team Liquid Map Contest (30 total ladder map contest finalists). Developer of Zealot Hockey, Star Party, Monobattle Map Rotation and other stuff
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
April 16 2023 06:04 GMT
#37
On April 15 2023 03:13 outscar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2023 15:21 MineraIs wrote:
When will we get a TLMC for broodwar?


Upvote! Mapmaking on BW is active and on fire recently, so many unique maps coming out. Even if prize pool will be twice lower it's good to have it.


👆🏻
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
asdasdfad
Profile Joined April 2023
1 Post
April 16 2023 06:08 GMT
#38
--- Nuked ---
dsfsdfe
Profile Joined April 2023
3 Posts
April 16 2023 08:32 GMT
#39
--- Nuked ---
dsfsdfe
Profile Joined April 2023
3 Posts
April 16 2023 08:32 GMT
#40
--- Nuked ---
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