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Oliveira reviewing his own IEM games[reddit Xpost]

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2716 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-15 02:50:43
February 15 2023 02:46 GMT
#1
Sorry if this is violating any posting etiquette that I don't know of, but this is such an important piece of history and interesting insight from Oliveira's post-IEM stream translated and posted on reddit that I don't want TL users to miss.

Original link: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1123n5z/oliveiratime_is_reviewing_his_own_game_and_it_is/
All credits to u/flyingad on r/starcraft

Copied content:

TIME came back to China and did a streaming on Douyu today, and this is a one-off stream just to recap the game and thanks to the fans. He said he probably won't be able to stream again in short time because there are WTL final day, and a lot of interview/commercial arrangements incoming.

His charity plan on the commercial income because of his championship: It is likely TIME will get a rather big commercial income (besides the 150k USD championship award) from streaming gifts, advertisements, and merchandise selling. In fact, He said just now there are already around 2 million CNY (around 300k USD) in commercial income. But TIME will donate all of this money to charity.

On his mentality on the final day:

"I was having this weirdly calm mentality during the whole time. I didn’t even want to win it all. I just didn’t care at all. I just wanted to play one more game on stage that’s all. I know it doesn’t sound logical."

"it seemed that the other top players were under much higher pressure. If these guys were performing normally I would definitely lose. Some of the mistakes they made wouldn’t have happened if they were in practice. I can say this because we all practiced against each other so much that I know how good these guys truly are. They wouldn’t make those errors including positioning of units, missing upgrades, mechanics, etc. It’s not them. I felt almost like I was at 70% playing against them at their 30%. "

"I practiced so much and lost so so many games that I feel like I already know all the possible outcomes of every matchup at any given time it’s become muscle memory. In some of the key moments in these matches, I could not even remember what I was thinking at that moment in time or whether my choices were deliberate. It was all hands before brain."

"In some clutch moment, if it was the old me, I will probably rush to get the killer move. But today, for some reason I told myself to slow down and play the macro game because all these lost memories just came up to me when I did this killer move and fell into traps. I have lost so many of them."

"I can't believe I was this brilliant. Have you ever seen me place the tanks in such perfect positions with such patience?"

--------------------------------------

Some side anecdote from SCboys steam: "after TIME's miserable 0-6 loss in DH Atlanta, in order to prepare Katowice, he rejected all the commercial engagements (which he often does with SCboys). His practice discipline is hell-like. Every day, he wakes up at 12 noon, gets some food, and goes to the gym at 2pm to keep his physical heath. His practice starts at 4pm, and last to 4am at least, sometimes to 6am then go to bed. The reason for this schedule is to match the timezone in Katowice, and he kept this schedule for several months, and that's why he could still keep the full focus on the full day of competition, and not been impacted by the jetlag."

------------------------------------------------

Game with Reynor

The first game is already lost when TIME saw Reynor had the overlord speed

In the 2nd game, the TIME mentioned that he actually made a mistake in that almost successful push but lost in that one baneling, and the mistake was he had one unnecessary extra stim, otherwise, that group of marines will stand. "Normally a Terran player in such baneling connection moment will have a regretable look in our face. But look at my face in the camera at that clutch moment, I have no expression and almost smiled. Because I sensed Reynor was not at his best, and I can win the game". He also mentioned that he and Lambo together analyzed Reynor's game plan was to go for 63-66 drones and counter with zerglings and the conter play is to have hellions ready, shift clicked them to the natural to defend (along with blocking marines at the natural wall) from the 3rd as it was a trap to try and kill the zerglings. However, in this game his hellions didn't go to the right place and it went wrong thus lost a lot of SCVs. (Thanks to u/Impirion on this part.) After lost this game, TIME recalled a small trick from Rouge, which is to call a timeout for a bathroom break to slow down the opponent’s momentum. On-stream he pointed out the fact that during the timeout Reynor couldn’t wait to start the match asap, but at that moment Oliveira was washing his hands and calming himself down

In game 3, he used the tactic from Innovation, which was a build with double banshee but without cloak. He said that Inno told him that build would make the Terran push extremely more aggressively due to having one extra tank and an armory ready. And the banshee can be used to prevent zerg run by. He executed it perfectly with some extra considerations on the map layout, which he gained from practice with Lambo.

In game 4, TIME said he has practiced with the map with Serral a lot and he's very confident after 3rd base is established. It is a good macro map for Terran vs Zerg. But he was so impressed by himself on the tank positioning because it's never this good in any of his practice. He said his mind has never been so clear because all the practice gave him confidence.

Game 5, he is just so so so impressed by himself on how good he was, especially on the quick pickup retreat in the middle game avoiding losing tanks. All the details and prediction are just spot on...


Game with Hero. TIME once thought he would be better to play Dark, considering he just eliminated Reynor, but Hero was actually in semifinal. Then TIME said he had a dream once, that he lost to Dark in a last final game, so when he saw is to against Hero, he actually felt he had a chance.

1st game review was quite funny... He still thought Hero started with VS (Stargate), as he mentioned that he had predicted perfectly, but actually it was VC (Twilight), and he realized just now!! He won anyway because it happened also to be the right build order. So funny...

2nd game that he lost, TIME was actually started very well but lost in details. But just like the 2nd game with Reynor, he sensed Hero felt very rushed to do the killer move, and it is not like the patient Hero as he knew, therefore he was not panicking at all.

3rd game TIME started with perfect defense with these adepts, “I defended the proxy near perfectly because of an old practice session with Dear a few years ago. He was helping me prepare for one tournament and we sat down together for 4-5 hours to fine-tune all the details of Terran defending. We exhausted all possibilities and concluded that the Terran player has to build another marine from the barracks before building the reactor. That way I could deal enough damage to empty the shield of any new adept trying to ignore the bunker and walk up the ramp. It was all calculated. “ “You really need all those hours just for ten minutes on stage, and it was all worth it.” He mentioned that he practiced more than 700 games in the 1 month before Katowice. Of course, he's also impressed with his own timing to pull the boys...

4th game, TIME sensed Hero was just so lost with so many strange mistakes. TIME also mentioned he sensed after the 3rd game, the viewers in the hall turned more supporting him instead of Hero.

Game with Maru

1st game, TIME a bit overwhelmed by Maru, but he decided to quit early even though theoretically he can still continue. He decided to reserve the energy for the rest.

2nd game, “I got extremely lucky here because in this game he (Maru) for some reason forgot to do several routines in his proxy build. For example, he didn’t use his SCV to check whether I went straight reactor, and he waited for his second reaper before engaging. This was a rare mistake. In practice, he would always scout first. Should he choose to scout he would be able to make the decision immediately to bring his first reaper into my base and deny my factory and I’d be dead 100%. The only chance that I could survive was him waiting for the 2nd reaper and only with those few seconds of time then my build would become a counter to his build because I would have a lot more units with double racks and a factory. This was my only chance and he decided to wait for two reapers. A big mistake that Maru never made before. I then chose to tank drop which was the correct counter to his build. Another mistake or I should call it luck as he never managed to kill my medevac during my push. Oh, and Maru had a tank sieged in the attacking range of my tank? How many times would you think that could happen? And the medevac…Would you even believe that with two cyclones locking onto a medevac with the vision he wasn’t able to kill it, and this was from Maru? At that moment I even felt that god was on my side. Because of that medevac, I managed to save all four of my marine in his base because with the medevac his banshee wasn't able to engage and kill them. Then I won. “

3rd game, TIME gambled that Maru will not cheese, because he sensed Maru's tension and nervousness, and he got it spot on... TIME said he never had such a good defense in his life on that drop, lost only 1 SCV! And the detail he mentioned the detail to get the Raven with the scan was carefully calculated

4th game, TIME gambled again on Maru's offense, which he lost a lot with Maru in practice, and then TIME decided to adjust the build order. Maru made another unprecedented Medevac mistake because Maru just simply not there... TIME said he actually felt pretty blessed with his family, and actually never dreamed world champion, in fact, his wildest dream is only top 4 in IEM... Then he started to slap himself in the stream again to make sure he is not dreaming now... So funny.

5th game, TIME gambled the opening again and spotted on again, his sense at that moment is like no map mist at all... Then he actually made a mistake in the first push and lost all the tanks. He said, if it is in the past, he might just quit because it is Maru with extra Tanks and no one can defend that. But this time, he decided to continue and started to produce Vikings for air superiority, which actually Maru should have started but for no reason at all Maru didn't... In a later engagement, he did a mini base trade, which he thinks that was the most brilliant decision in his career... Later, even though had won an engagement and gained the advantage, Maru retreated instead of keeping pushing, and even forgot his 3-3 upgrade, and then lost the air superiority, all of which should be Maru's trademark move... TIME said, now he sees Maru's troop movement, it seems exactly like TIME's own move in the past...

Then Maru typed GG, TIME just had his knees down, he said he never dreamed the golden falling rain on the stage. Then in the stream, TIME pulled out one old video that he won Maru several years ago (3-2 I think), in which after TIME won, he rushed to Maru to get his handshake (like trying to get Maru's recognition), and Maru a bit ignored in the beginning and then just had a brief one hand handshake. But this time, after the game ended, TIME said he didn't rush the moment because there was nothing to prove to anyone no more. Then finally when he got to Maru, Maru gave a 2 hands handshake which was the first time he saw. Respect!

TIME mentioned his grandma, who's already over 80 years old, has been watching his game, then cried after TIME won. TIME promised that he will not spend much time on the advertisement, and he will donate all of his earnings to charity from these commercial activities (only keep the IEM bonus because that's he earned). Then he once again showed the medal. That's the end of this stream.

Edit: for more tidbits of info, check out the reddit thread.
very illegal and very uncool
TentativePanda
Profile Joined August 2014
United States800 Posts
February 15 2023 03:33 GMT
#2
This was really cool to read
Beelzebub1
Profile Joined May 2015
1004 Posts
February 15 2023 03:59 GMT
#3
Awesome read, such a humble dude even in his moment of glory. He might not make that amazing of a run again but I definitely don't think anyone is going to sleep on him again.
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6257 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-15 05:31:48
February 15 2023 05:21 GMT
#4
Great read!

Imho, TIME is humble - it wasn't that his opponents were playing below par. I feel that on that Sunday, he was in a zen-like mindset and he played 110% to his capability. You can see it in his description of the games, where it seems that the game was moving in slow motion for him.

On that Sunday, he was the best player in the world - will it last? Who knows, but it was good enough to be world champion!
dbRic1203
Profile Joined July 2019
Germany2655 Posts
February 15 2023 07:11 GMT
#5
He realy practised with everyone
All players he mrntioned either here or in the Katowice Interviews of the top of my head are
Protoss:
Nice, Dear, herO
Terran:
Inno, Maru, Coffee
Zerg:
Lambo, Serral
MaxPax
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2716 Posts
February 15 2023 07:22 GMT
#6
On February 15 2023 16:11 dbRic1203 wrote:
He realy practised with everyone
All players he mrntioned either here or in the Katowice Interviews of the top of my head are
Protoss:
Nice, Dear, herO
Terran:
Inno, Maru, Coffee
Zerg:
Lambo, Serral

The Dear and Inno moments were especially impressive because they happened a while back before those players retired and were matchup, build, and timing-specific counter/advice that Oliveira adapted to the current meta/map pool.
very illegal and very uncool
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17952 Posts
February 15 2023 08:16 GMT
#7
On February 15 2023 14:21 Azzur wrote:
Great read!

Imho, TIME is humble - it wasn't that his opponents were playing below par. I feel that on that Sunday, he was in a zen-like mindset and he played 110% to his capability. You can see it in his description of the games, where it seems that the game was moving in slow motion for him.

On that Sunday, he was the best player in the world - will it last? Who knows, but it was good enough to be world champion!

This. A lot of those "mistakes" are things that would go untouched and unnoticed in most games. Or things like Reynor's insane agression... it'll usually just blow up a few more bases, and he'll win regardless. But Oliveira went super Saiyan sort of midway through game 2 vs Reynor and capitalized on every single thing his opponents did wrong while his own decision making and micro was second to none. Maybe Maru played uncharacteristically sloppy, but really at this point is Maru dropping the ball at international weekenders really still uncharacteristic?

Did Oliveira evel up and this is the new Oliveira at all tournaments? We'll wait and see, but he won a world championship and made a huge amount of new fans.

Oh, and about his practice: he gave away his secret formula for beating jetlag!
NeWHoriZonS
Profile Joined April 2018
54 Posts
February 15 2023 08:39 GMT
#8
Some side anecdote from SCboys steam: "after TIME's miserable 0-6 loss in DH Atlanta, in order to prepare Katowice, he rejected all the commercial engagements (which he often does with SCboys). His practice discipline is hell-like. Every day, he wakes up at 12 noon, gets some food, and goes to the gym at 2pm to keep his physical heath. His practice starts at 4pm, and last to 4am at least, sometimes to 6am then go to bed. The reason for this schedule is to match the timezone in Katowice, and he kept this schedule for several months, and that's why he could still keep the full focus on the full day of competition, and not been impacted by the jetlag."

Wow, a pro actually preparing himself to deal with jetlag
I wonder how many are actually doing something like this
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10321 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-15 19:12:00
February 15 2023 08:46 GMT
#9
Thanks a lot for sharing!!
Really cool hearing his insight, and how all these little things added up, and also his reactions and what things he predicted and what he didn't etc.

Also cus these little tidbits are really valuable for people who want to learn - stuff like needing a marine before reactor to defend vs all protoss early aggro. Perhaps other top players may disagree or have other ways to defend he didn't consider, but it's still really cool to hear insight like that from a top player, so us noobs don't have to waste time playing with build orders under misconceptions only to find out oh, that is/isn't actually completely safe.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
mounteast0
Profile Joined January 2020
59 Posts
February 15 2023 17:08 GMT
#10
For Maru second game, I have a different interpretation to Oliveira (although needless to say he is infinitely better player than me). I think what happen is that Maru know Oliveira know that if Oliveira goes reaper -> reactor and Maru goes proxy reaper, it is a instant win for Maru. In a tournament setting, oliveira would not dare to take that risk. Therefore Maru decided to hide the first reaper. May be hope Oliveira's reaper goes to the other side of the map and double reaper in -> instant win.
However, Oliveira just happened to not do that.
It felt more like the situation become "the strat is too bad so no one should do it, so I don't need to account for it, but since I did not account for it, I lost to it." kind of situation for Maru. May be we can call it lucky for Oliveira, but since we don't know what Maru's thought at that moment, we don't know if Maru's action was intentional or not.

And for the 5th game, it seems Maru is a lot more conservative than usual, there are a few instance that Maru won the fight at Oliveira's front door but not push in. It probably something to do with Oliveira on match point, I feel if the score was not 1-3, Maru would have pushed in, and probably dealt a lot more damage or won the game.
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
687 Posts
February 15 2023 19:48 GMT
#11
Shameless x-post of my own full English transcript of the analysis VOD: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/112o293/oliveiratime_postgame_stream_full_english/

I think I was going a bit quickly, so there may be inaccuracies, but there might be a few more details for people interested. For example, in G4 vs Reynor, he practiced with Serral and still had a pretty consistent win rate in the late game, so he was very confident. He also knows that the Zerg tends to mine out around 30 minutes with the heavy trading style, so that's his push timing.
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-15 23:50:24
February 15 2023 23:49 GMT
#12
From the Reddit thread:

"And at this moment of despair, I thought of that guy. The 2 time IEM champion Rogue. Go to the restroom. I called a timeout, can't keep going. [responding to chat] I was smiling? How did you know I was smiling? But yeah, I was smiling. I was indeed smiling, since I was feeling great emotionally. I thought of Rogue. See, look at Reynor, he's so pumped and hyper. Yeah, this is why I go to the restroom, let him be hyper at the screen on his own, waste his stamina. Look at how hyper he is, he's even brushing his hair and fixing his glasses. And me? I'm in the restroom, washing my hands, telling myself that winning and losing isn't important anymore, just play the rest of the series well. See, I messed up his momentum. Restroom breaks are the best strat."

Rogue bathroom GOAT confirmed
"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1830 Posts
February 15 2023 23:57 GMT
#13
I hope Oli remembers he has to pay taxes on the prize money before he donates so much away lol (though it is quite generous and commendable of him). The rules on taxation vary by country, but there are a lot of countries in the world where this sort of thing is taxed twice. First by the country from which IEM pays out and then secondly by their native country when reporting yearly income. One of the few benefits of living in America is that they don't do this, but I don't know how many people in here are experts on international Chinese tax law and could therefore offer clarity.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
February 16 2023 00:00 GMT
#14
On February 16 2023 08:49 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
From the Reddit thread:

"And at this moment of despair, I thought of that guy. The 2 time IEM champion Rogue. Go to the restroom. I called a timeout, can't keep going. [responding to chat] I was smiling? How did you know I was smiling? But yeah, I was smiling. I was indeed smiling, since I was feeling great emotionally. I thought of Rogue. See, look at Reynor, he's so pumped and hyper. Yeah, this is why I go to the restroom, let him be hyper at the screen on his own, waste his stamina. Look at how hyper he is, he's even brushing his hair and fixing his glasses. And me? I'm in the restroom, washing my hands, telling myself that winning and losing isn't important anymore, just play the rest of the series well. See, I messed up his momentum. Restroom breaks are the best strat."

Rogue bathroom GOAT confirmed


As a Terran player, Olievera knew that once stim wears off, Reynor would be slower and make more mistake. He baited an RL stim in the first 2 games then went to the bathroom to wait for stim to wear off. That's 1000iq.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24192 Posts
February 16 2023 00:56 GMT
#15
Fascinating insights. Oliveira is such a lovable guy, I'm really happy he's the hero of that legendary run. Thanks !
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1522 Posts
February 16 2023 01:12 GMT
#16
love a good underdog story, a great end to his sc2 career
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2716 Posts
February 16 2023 02:03 GMT
#17
On February 16 2023 08:57 Mizenhauer wrote:
I hope Oli remembers he has to pay taxes on the prize money before he donates so much away lol (though it is quite generous and commendable of him). The rules on taxation vary by country, but there are a lot of countries in the world where this sort of thing is taxed twice. First by the country from which IEM pays out and then secondly by their native country when reporting yearly income. One of the few benefits of living in America is that they don't do this, but I don't know how many people in here are experts on international Chinese tax law and could therefore offer clarity.

He said he's keeping the prize money for himself because that's well earned, but he's donating all the donations from his post IEM celebratory stream to charity, which I think someone said amounted to at least ~300k usd.
very illegal and very uncool
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6257 Posts
February 16 2023 04:22 GMT
#18
On February 16 2023 04:48 yubo56 wrote:
Shameless x-post of my own full English transcript of the analysis VOD: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/112o293/oliveiratime_postgame_stream_full_english/

I think I was going a bit quickly, so there may be inaccuracies, but there might be a few more details for people interested. For example, in G4 vs Reynor, he practiced with Serral and still had a pretty consistent win rate in the late game, so he was very confident. He also knows that the Zerg tends to mine out around 30 minutes with the heavy trading style, so that's his push timing.

Thanks very much for this translation - it is such a great read
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