EPTI got the chance to sit down with the one of the almighty lords of this site, Waxangel himself. Hope you all enjoy the piece!
Waxangel talks Stormgate, ST_Life, Katowice & more
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StarcraftHistorian
United States157 Posts
I got the chance to sit down with the one of the almighty lords of this site, Waxangel himself. Hope you all enjoy the piece! | ||
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depressed1
51 Posts
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StarcraftHistorian
United States157 Posts
On February 05 2023 00:20 depressed1 wrote: Great interview! Wax u nerd. Ty! glad you enjoyed it =D | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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FuDDx
United States5014 Posts
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2592 Posts
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necrosexy
451 Posts
if Life played today, they would nerf nydus immediately | ||
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Kantuva
Uruguay209 Posts
Thanks for the interview! Good to see Wax HWAITING!! Looking forward to the game recaps heh!  ! | ||
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Gescom
Canada3509 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8245 Posts
Also "match fixing" is common too. In the NBA, refs have been caught in the past for betting on the games they officiate and only one Tim Donaghy was crucified. Refs have control over the game and often call fouls to keep the spread and hit the over/under, changing the outcome of the game. In CS:GO in the lower leagues, teams often bet on their own games, fake comebacks, over/under rounds for the map, etc. Life getting a lifetime ban is definitely not right. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
On February 05 2023 07:45 geokilla wrote: Gambling happens in regular sports and other e-sports and no one seems to bat an eye. More and more sports are embracing it as a way to make the game more entertaining and to generate additional revenue. In the NBA for example, sportsbooks like DraftKings and FanDuel literally sponsor segments and encourage gambling. Also "match fixing" is common too. In the NBA, refs have been caught in the past for betting on the games they officiate and only one Tim Donaghy was crucified. Refs have control over the game and often call fouls to keep the spread and hit the over/under, changing the outcome of the game. In CS:GO in the lower leagues, teams often bet on their own games, fake comebacks, over/under rounds for the map, etc. Life getting a lifetime ban is definitely not right. There is a lot of matchfixing, yes. Usually, when you get caught though, it results in a lifetime ban. And it should be. This is the one line no athlete should ever cross, otherwise you lose every trust in your game or sports.Life doesn't get an exception for that just because he was really, really good. And lets face it, that is the only reason some people even argue for him. No one cares that Bbyong got banned for life aswell | ||
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1706 Posts
he deserves a second chance | ||
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geokilla
Canada8245 Posts
On February 05 2023 07:50 Balnazza wrote: There is a lot of matchfixing, yes. Usually, when you get caught though, it results in a lifetime ban. And it should be. This is the one line no athlete should ever cross, otherwise you lose every trust in your game or sports.Life doesn't get an exception for that just because he was really, really good. And lets face it, that is the only reason some people even argue for him. No one cares that Bbyong got banned for life aswell I don't think many people remember Bbyong getting banned for match fixing, mainly because he's not a star like Life was. The point I'm trying to make is that there are many things worse than match fixing in which players should receive a lifetime ban and no second chance. I'm most familiar with NBA so I'm going to base my argument on it. Look at what Kyrie Iriving (a NBA superstar) has done this year. He made anti semitic remarks and he got what is basically a slap on the wrist. Sure he "apologized" and got dropped by Nike but everyone knows his apology wasn't sincere. He uses his platform to share "woke" content and spews tons of BS that if anyone else did it, they would immediately become unemployed. Now let's compare that to Meyers Leonard (an average NBA player) who has been shunned by the league for using an antisemtic slur in Call of Duty and hasn't played since 2020. Since then, he's been learning more about the Jewish culture and becoming a better person. So why is it that Kyrie gets a pass and the other doesn't? I think Meyers Leonard deserves a second chance in the NBA just like Life does in SC2, or any other professional game of his choosing. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
I don't fully understand how "the NBA does things a certain way" affect SC2 though? And while I heavily condemn any antisemitism and any other form of racism aswell...in the end, those are personal statements, that a sport can't really condemn and punish until they happen in its realm of action. If a player says "fuck xxx" during a game, he gets punished for it. If he says it outside the game, on his Twitter or whatever, his sponsors can react or the team, but usually not the League itself. Life however violated the rules of the game in one of the worst ways possible. Actually worse than cheating in my opinion, because in the end, you can proof cheats over time. But throwing a single game here and there is so hard to catch, but it forever ruins the trust the viewers and fans have in your (e)sports. Did that amazing underdog run really happen? Or was ist just three top players throwing and betting on themselves? Who knows... There are certain things that can be learned from Life (call it Life lessons, lol). But he is just done for, there is no way to come back. You can't gamble like that "by accident", just like you can't cheat "by accident". And don't get me started on his age. He was iirc at one point the player with the highest earnings in all of SC2 history, if you have earned that much money by yourself you can be trusted to not do some ridiciolously stupid thing that will forever ruin your career. There *can* be made an argument that a life-time ban is too harsh, but even then I wouldn't go lower than 10 years...which in esports is practically the same. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8245 Posts
On February 05 2023 13:34 Balnazza wrote: So as long as you are good enough at something, you should get a freebie compared to someone who did the same thing but just isn't as fame as you? I don't fully understand how "the NBA does things a certain way" affect SC2 though? And while I heavily condemn any antisemitism and any other form of racism as well...in the end, those are personal statements, that a sport can't really condemn and punish until they happen in its realm of action. If a player says "fuck xxx" during a game, he gets punished for it. If he says it outside the game, on his Twitter or whatever, his sponsors can react or the team, but usually not the League itself. Life however violated the rules of the game in one of the worst ways possible. Actually worse than cheating in my opinion, because in the end, you can proof cheats over time. But throwing a single game here and there is so hard to catch, but it forever ruins the trust the viewers and fans have in your (e)sports. Did that amazing underdog run really happen? Or was ist just three top players throwing and betting on themselves? Who knows... There are certain things that can be learned from Life (call it Life lessons, lol). But he is just done for, there is no way to come back. You can't gamble like that "by accident", just like you can't cheat "by accident". And don't get me started on his age. He was iirc at one point the player with the highest earnings in all of SC2 history, if you have earned that much money by yourself you can be trusted to not do some ridiculously stupid thing that will forever ruin your career. There *can* be made an argument that a life-time ban is too harsh, but even then I wouldn't go lower than 10 years...which in esports is practically the same. Apparently that's how the NBA operates. I disagree with it but it is what it is. Also the NBA (Brooklyn Nets) did suspend Kyrie for a short while. If Meyers Leonard is actively trying to make amends why isn't Meyers allowed back in the NBA? Oh right, because Kyrie is a superstar and Meyers isn't. Now Kyrie has demanded he get traded out of Brooklyn Nets and tons of teams want him despite knowing that he's toxic and idiotic. If you want to talk about Life violating the rules of the game, what about NBA referees who bet on the game? What about NBA referees who influence the outcome of the game and favour calls for one team over another? Scott Foster received 134 phone calls from disgraced NBA referee Tim Donaghy between October 2006 and April 2007. Tim Donaghy was convicted and sentenced to jail for betting on NBA games while Scott Foster is now considered one of the best referees in the NBA. If you watch the Netflix documentary, "Untold: Operation Flagrant Foul," it's been stated that the NBA instructs the referees how to officiate the game and "match fix." If you look on Wikipedia about the betting scandal, it's widely believed that Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals was fixed. Or more recently, LeBron James getting fouled at the end of the game right in front of the referee. Instead of calling the foul, the referee swallowed the whistle so the game can go into OT. Was it intentional? Was it a mistake? Only that referee knows. But one thing's for sure and that is the outcome of the game changed. Lakers would have won on foul shots but instead, they lose to the Celtics in OT. At least they got great ratings, more revenue, and more viewership right? NBA is actively encouraging this kind of behaviour. All I'm saying is that the SC2 community is being overly harsh on Life. I think it's time we give Life a second chance. It's been 8 years after all. A lot can change in 8 years. None of us are the same person we were 8 years ago. A ban of this long is too much. | ||
Waxangel
United States33559 Posts
However, it's a moot point because it's highly unrealistic that Life will allowed to return in a major esports title. Korean attitudes are so strong against match-fixing that an esports org active in Korea would never allow it if only for PR reasons. | ||
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[N3O]r3d33m3r
Germany673 Posts
[Life doesn't get an exception for that just because he was really, really good. And lets face it, that is the only reason some people even argue for him. No one cares that Bbyong got banned for life aswell Ye this is one of the main arguments why so many people (especially in NA) wanted Life back. Had he been a nobody no one would care or advocate for him. Quite a hypocritical behaviour if you ask me. Being a good sport is being a good sport. No one stands above the law, not even a star player. [B]On February 05 2023 14:54 Waxangel wrote: However, it's a moot point because it's highly unrealistic that Life will allowed to return in a major esports title. Korean attitudes are so strong against match-fixing that an esports org active in Korea would never allow it if only for PR reasons. This too. No korean venue will ever allow a matchfixer back. Korea, especially their authorities, view things like matchfixing as a "GG no RE" kind of thing. Once there is definite proof of you being part of it you are out for life. Sure, you won't be imprisoned for life, but you will never be allowed to play any kind of game in a competitive manner (tournaments, streams, etc.) ever again. This is not just about Life but the whole scene too. So many sponsors pulled out of SC2 and caused an even bigger decline than SC2 already had once the MOBA scene took everything by storm. Life and all the other matchfixers are to blame that SC2 could't become even bigger and better. They almost tore down the entire scene with them... "Good riddance and thank you for nothing" is my message to them. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1262 Posts
On February 05 2023 14:07 geokilla wrote: Apparently that's how the NBA operates. I disagree with it but it is what it is. Also the NBA (Brooklyn Nets) did suspend Kyrie for a short while. If Meyers Leonard is actively trying to make amends why isn't Meyers allowed back in the NBA? Oh right, because Kyrie is a superstar and Meyers isn't. Now Kyrie has demanded he get traded out of Brooklyn Nets and tons of teams want him despite knowing that he's toxic and idiotic. If you want to talk about Life violating the rules of the game, what about NBA referees who bet on the game? What about NBA referees who influence the outcome of the game and favour calls for one team over another? Scott Foster received 134 phone calls from disgraced NBA referee Tim Donaghy between October 2006 and April 2007. Tim Donaghy was convicted and sentenced to jail for betting on NBA games while Scott Foster is now considered one of the best referees in the NBA. If you watch the Netflix documentary, "Untold: Operation Flagrant Foul," it's been stated that the NBA instructs the referees how to officiate the game and "match fix." If you look on Wikipedia about the betting scandal, it's widely believed that Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals was fixed. Or more recently, LeBron James getting fouled at the end of the game right in front of the referee. Instead of calling the foul, the referee swallowed the whistle so the game can go into OT. Was it intentional? Was it a mistake? Only that referee knows. But one thing's for sure and that is the outcome of the game changed. Lakers would have won on foul shots but instead, they lose to the Celtics in OT. At least they got great ratings, more revenue, and more viewership right? NBA is actively encouraging this kind of behaviour. All I'm saying is that the SC2 community is being overly harsh on Life. I think it's time we give Life a second chance. It's been 8 years after all. A lot can change in 8 years. None of us are the same person we were 8 years ago. A ban of this long is too much. Using your arguments, I want to say: Maybe NBA is just not harsh enough? To give you a different perspective: In german football Bundesliga, there was a big betting scandal 15 years back or something like that. I believe a referee threw three games. And you know what? he got banned for life, never to pick up the whistle ever again. Because of the games he manipulated, a coach lost his job (and had trouble finding one afterwards) since his team lost an important game. Another referee was accused to be in kahoot with him and also had his career ruined, even though he was innocent. Iirc the damage this scandal produced was so massive, it even damaged the financial success of the Bundesliga in terms of viewership etc. This one referee produced a gigantic form of damage and he did it for peanuts. The NBA might not have too big troubles, but that is the luxury of a franchise league. In other sports, losses can have tremendous consequences for your staff or even the team as a whole, for example when your team gets relegated, has to fire people and maybe get financial damaged so hard you never get back to the first division. Life and the BW pros before him damaged the game aswell. It wouldn't even surprise me if part of the reason Proleague ended would be connected to this scandal, because it destroyed the trust people have in the sport. If the NBA (and I take your word for that) is too lenient, that is there problem. But in Esports, we should not allow matchfixers to have any stand. They forfeited their right to participate, forever. | ||
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[N3O]r3d33m3r
Germany673 Posts
On February 06 2023 03:02 Balnazza wrote: It was actually 18 years ago (January 2005) and it concerned mainly Robert Hoyzer and the 2. Bundesliga, DFB-Pokal and some amateur leagues like the Regionalliga. The premier division Bundesliga wasn't affected at all. Some other referees got in trouble too but weren't banned for life like Hoyzer and mostly got fines plus 6-month bans.Using your arguments, I want to say: Maybe NBA is just not harsh enough? To give you a different perspective: In german football Bundesliga, there was a big betting scandal 15 years back or something like that. I believe a referee threw three games. And you know what? he got banned for life, never to pick up the whistle ever again. Because of the games he manipulated, a coach lost his job (and had trouble finding one afterwards) since his team lost an important game. Another referee was accused to be in kahoot with him and also had his career ruined, even though he was innocent. Iirc the damage this scandal produced was so massive, it even damaged the financial success of the Bundesliga in terms of viewership etc. This one referee produced a gigantic form of damage and he did it for peanuts. On February 06 2023 03:02 Balnazza wrote:Life and the BW pros before him damaged the game aswell. It wouldn't even surprise me if part of the reason Proleague ended would be connected to this scandal, because it destroyed the trust people have in the sport. If the NBA (and I take your word for that) is too lenient, that is there problem. But in Esports, we should not allow matchfixers to have any stand. They forfeited their right to participate, forever. Part? I would say it was more than just a part, probably even the main reason.Fully agree with the last part. It feels like a lot of people don't understand the consequences when it comes to what matchfixing can ruin in a sport, be it electronic or physical. | ||
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