EPTI'm so happy that Ryung, DRG, and Gumiho are still playing!
Code Season 3 (2022) - RO20 groups announced - Page 3
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Cilantroll
9 Posts
I'm so happy that Ryung, DRG, and Gumiho are still playing! | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On August 14 2022 19:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Reynor tier 4? LoL what a joke, korean elitism once again Right?! I can't believe some people think Maru got a harder group than others did. Zoun got better but he's no herO or an especially tough opponenent compared to others imo. I think Gumiho is the strongest opponent in his group even though Zoun will probably tougher for Maru because Gumiho is terran and Zoun Protoss. Classic used to be extremely good but it would be a surprise for me if he makes it out of the group, a good surprise tho. If I rate the groups, I think group B is the hardest. Bunny/Reynor/DRG all have shots of advancing, I think Dream has rough chances but maybe he'll surprise everyone. | ||
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IArako
Germany195 Posts
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veniss
76 Posts
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tigera6
3435 Posts
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Kitai
United States878 Posts
On August 15 2022 13:10 tigera6 wrote: Btw, lots of people outraging about GSL denying Reynor off-racing this time after he has asked them and they, in turn, asked the other players to which the players said no. Wait what? That does seem a bit out of line. Can you link a source to the full story? | ||
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tigera6
3435 Posts
On August 15 2022 14:25 Kitai wrote: Wait what? That does seem a bit out of line. Can you link a source to the full story? Watch Harstem interviewing Reynor here: | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
On August 15 2022 13:10 tigera6 wrote: Btw, lots of people outraging about GSL denying Reynor off-racing this time after he has asked them and they, in turn, asked the other players to which the players said no. Don't understand this, of course Race-switching last second isn't allowed in a tournament which focuses so much on preparation, it would be way more outrageous if it was allowed | ||
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Kitai
United States878 Posts
On August 15 2022 14:56 Charoisaur wrote: Don't understand this, of course Race-switching last second isn't allowed in a tournament which focuses so much on preparation, it would be way more outrageous if it was allowed The odd thing is that (based on the above video) it sounds like there wasn't a rule specifying that he couldn't swap races. Instead they were like were like "I dunno... let's ask the players what they think." You know, the players who are obviously going to give the answer that benefits themselves the most. The players shouldn't be the ones deciding the rules in such a prestigious tournament; it's a clear conflict of interest and it's a bad look for the GSL which makes it seem like they don't have their stuff together. I could totally understand if GSL clearly stated in their tournament rules that a player has to specify their race and stick to it throughout the tournament - like you said, it would support the preparation style of the tournament - but the way they went about it seems all wrong. If what Reynor said was true and I interpreted it correctly, the right thing to do would have been letting him race swap for this tournament and then officially make a rule about it afterwards if they don't like it. | ||
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Durnuu
13322 Posts
On August 15 2022 13:10 tigera6 wrote: Btw, lots of people outraging about GSL denying Reynor off-racing this time after he has asked them and they, in turn, asked the other players to which the players said no. Sounds like miscommunication to me, because GSL has never allowed raceswitching in the middle of the tournament (let alone series). You choose a race (including Random if you fancy that) at the beginning and you stick with it throughout, always been like that. Maybe GSL asked the other players if they could bend the rules for Reynor, instead. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
On August 15 2022 15:54 Kitai wrote: The odd thing is that (based on the above video) it sounds like there wasn't a rule specifying that he couldn't swap races. Instead they were like were like "I dunno... let's ask the players what they think." You know, the players who are obviously going to give the answer that benefits themselves the most. The players shouldn't be the ones deciding the rules in such a prestigious tournament; it's a clear conflict of interest and it's a bad look for the GSL which makes it seem like they don't have their stuff together. I could totally understand if GSL clearly stated in their tournament rules that a player has to specify their race and stick to it throughout the tournament - like you said, it would support the preparation style of the tournament - but the way they went about it seems all wrong. If what Reynor said was true and I interpreted it correctly, the right thing to do would have been letting him race swap for this tournament and then officially make a rule about it afterwards if they don't like it. Probably misinterpreted like Durnuu said but even if it wasn't I don't see the problem with asking players how they feel about it. I bet for most rules at one point player feedback was relevant in deciding how to do it. edit: like the more even prize money distribution we got for example. That's also something that was implemented after listening to feedback from (probably mostly) lower level players that also had a conflict of interest there. That's how you should do it as an organizer: Ask the players for feedback, evaluate the feedback and then make a decision. Better than just doing whatever the fuck you want and never asking the players for opinions. I really don't see the problem here | ||
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RDO
Italy60 Posts
So let's be clear. If there's a rule, then it's a rule, and it's ok. It could be all a misunderstanding, and it's definitely not worth a riot in any case because reynor himself seems very chill about it. It has to be said that if there's a written rule about it, it makes no sense to ask for other players opinions in any case, bending a rule to allow the switch or bending it to not allow it it'd be equally bad and unfair. And this is very different from asking for feedback before establishing a rule or making a decision: a rule should be made and enforced before a tournament begins, and the feedback asked way before then, certainly not as the situation arises, also asking the same people that would suffer a (fair) disadvantage if Reynor were allowed to switch race. Now, as a Reynor fan, I'm kind of relieved that he won't be all over the place with his training, and he will focus 100% on zergs, given his recent shape has been kind of meh. As an ignorant fan I'm honestly happier this way, even tho I would have supported him anyway, obviously. Now, on the topic of switching himself, I'm surprised by how many people here are against it. This is a competition. All the players have access to all the races and the tools in the game, if they're willing to add weapons to their arsenal, aka get better with another race. If a player has the will or the talent to pursue an edge in that regard, there's really no reason to forbid the use of that edge. GSL gives players time to prepare, so what? They can prepare in case there's a race switch, let's not pretend like rocket scientists need to get involved for months to prepare for an opponent, but even if that was the case, well, tough luck. But as I said, whether the games would be better or worse, whether the preparation time would be enough or not, a competition is a competition: if you can have an advantage fairly gained, you should be not only allowed, but encouraged to use it. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
Also, looking from different perspective, the monthly preparation-style tournament would lose its prestige if allowing the race-swap to continue. If Reynor wanted to do the race-swap, better he stick with "Random" race before registering the GSL event. These seemed fair to the other players who were also preparing and aware of Reynor's chosen race before the matches started. | ||
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Kitai
United States878 Posts
On August 15 2022 17:18 Charoisaur wrote: Probably misinterpreted like Durnuu said but even if it wasn't I don't see the problem with asking players how they feel about it. I bet for most rules at one point player feedback was relevant in deciding how to do it. edit: like the more even prize money distribution we got for example. That's also something that was implemented after listening to feedback from (probably mostly) lower level players that also had a conflict of interest there. That's how you should do it as an organizer: Ask the players for feedback, evaluate the feedback and then make a decision. Better than just doing whatever the fuck you want and never asking the players for opinions. I really don't see the problem here If what Durnuu said is correct and it's in the rules, there is no problem. If the other players were asked if it was okay to bend the rules for someone else and they said no, once again that's fine. Heck, they probably shouldn't have asked in the first place if that was the case since it puts the players in an awkward spot. The prize money thing is not an equal comparison and has nothing to do with fairness of competition or establishing tournament rules. Your "probably mostly" statement is pure speculation (not to mention with no source as to the tournament in question, as plenty of organizations have adjusted prize pools between tournaments or in response to other feedback and funding, and I don't recall any instance where the players dictated a prize pool change just before the start of a premier tournament). Conflict of interest is the most basic thing to be aware of for anyone who is in a position to make rules, and if what Reynor said was true it would be a pretty big lapse in judgement. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
On August 15 2022 23:42 RDO wrote: Now, on the topic of switching himself, I'm surprised by how many people here are against it. This is a competition. All the players have access to all the races and the tools in the game, if they're willing to add weapons to their arsenal, aka get better with another race. If a player has the will or the talent to pursue an edge in that regard, there's really no reason to forbid the use of that edge. GSL gives players time to prepare, so what? They can prepare in case there's a race switch, let's not pretend like rocket scientists need to get involved for months to prepare for an opponent, but even if that was the case, well, tough luck. But as I said, whether the games would be better or worse, whether the preparation time would be enough or not, a competition is a competition: if you can have an advantage fairly gained, you should be not only allowed, but encouraged to use it. As is historically has been disallowed korean players had no incentive to practice their offraces and thus it would be unfair to suddenly allow it for Reynor. I think if you are good enough with other races and want to compete with them you should either fully switch race (for full series) or play random like Flash and not only switch race when it's convenient for you based on the maps and the opposing race. Just takes away from it imo. | ||
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tigera6
3435 Posts
As for the rule and the decision, I have no clue where is the GSL rulebook, but I think they never expected a player to off-race in GSL so that clause might have not been in there at all. Even if thats the case, the tournament organizer reseve the right to make any decision they see fit upon the exception. But even IF off-racing is allowed, it must be done such that all parties are informed of it on time. I dont think player should be able to switch race in the middle of the series, hell they must declare their race before the map veto, or even 1 week earlier for proper preparation. That would take away all the element of suprise and randomness out of it. And no, not allowing off-racing does not mean it would kill the SC2 scence, like some of the comment I saw in the video. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16008 Posts
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/596543-2022-gsl-season-3-qualifiers-aug-8-9 | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
As far as Reynor goes, being banned from playing Toss probably helps him. I don't think Reynor is trolling - he probably believes PvZ could reduce the variance of his results against Zerg - but his record against every Zerg other than Solar suggests he'd be better off sticking to ZvZ for now. | ||
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
On August 16 2022 01:23 dysenterymd wrote: I think the best rule would just be making players announce their race within a day of groups/matchups being decided, but having a no race swapping rule isn't a big deal either. As far as Reynor goes, being banned from playing Toss probably helps him. I don't think Reynor is trolling - he probably believes PvZ could reduce the variance of his results against Zerg - but his record against every Zerg other than Solar suggests he'd be better off sticking to ZvZ for now. tbh i think Reynor was probably looking to play mindgames. like, his opponents have to prefer for the possibility he MIGHT play Protoss, but then he never does anyway. I think it's good they don't allow him to raceswitch, I think it was apparently not very well communicated though. | ||
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