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I actually think that, this time, the tournament could really start too late for korean viewers(and maybe progamers); trying to find a balance between NA and KR is hard but probably something like 3/3.30 PM would have been a better compromise, more like DH Seasons finals. It also seems very reasonable to schedule all matches with koreans as early as possible and all matches with NA players as late as possible.
On the other hand, you guys don't know better than korean themselves, who were directly asked and, knowing in advance, can adjust their schedule accordingly. In general, you can't assume koreans will play worse at night because you would find uncomfortable playing under such conditions; this sounds like an excuse.
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France12758 Posts
On November 16 2020 19:41 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2020 03:57 Liquid`TLO wrote:On November 12 2020 23:16 sneakyfox wrote: I must admit, I'm also not buying the "they did not complain" argument. As has been pointed out, there are some cultural things here. Further, it could just be that the Koreans have accepted that late playing times are necessary from business point of view and thus accept playing late because they think there is no alternative.
If you really want to know then ask them directly. Ask them "when would you prefer to play" and "at what hour do you feel you are no longer playing your best" etc.
Personally I find it a bit off-putting if organisers (or others) say that scheduling doesn't matter to players, or that cross-server environment doesn't affect regional and racial balance. If broadcast hours are chosen for business reasons - fine, but let's be honest about it. Then we can watch the games for what they are, and yes then we will have to be honest that Koreans probably aren't playing their best at 7 am after being up all night. It can still be a great tournament, the games can still be great.
The denial is the problem imo. And it reverberates through the LR/chat and feeds the flamewars (am not saying it's the only thing feeding them though).
I can only speak from my personal experience and the accounts of other pros living in Korea. It's almost impossible to find any practice in Korea before 13:00 or 14:00 local time, because most Korean pros are nightowls regularly playing deep into the night, almost to the morning of the next day. This isn't a new phenomena from this year due to cross continental online play forcing them into this lifestyle, but has been the case already even when I lived in Korea in 2010 and 2011. Tournaments running late into the night still isn't ideal, but when servicing 3 different continents there is unfortunately some concessions you have to make. And tournament organizers always pick Koreans because as it appears nobody even mention this except few people on the TL.net. eDIT> Like look, I get why are Koreans being ignored. They don't bitch about it and they are in the worst time zone considering the viewers, but the silence around this and the fact that many are saying Koreans are fine with it and playing late at night is so fine for them without affecting the quality is ridiculous. At least mention it during the casting, damn it. The last person I heard talking about this during an event was Serral IIRC. Not surprising considering Serral is honest and has no agenda of sugar coating things. And yeah Scarlett talked about almost no ladder past 1am so maybe playing deep into the night has changed? Looking forward to the tournament either way, hopefully the cross server matches are over as quickly as possible and we have some EU to EU matches remaining
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Could there be any Brood War included?
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TSL7 and TSL8 were just announced on stream !
2021 already starting out good thanks Shopify
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We'll have a news post up about it tomorrow together with one more piece of info
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On December 20 2020 07:54 Julmust wrote:We'll have a news post up about it tomorrow together with one more piece of info ![](/mirror/smilies/smile.gif)
Wooo!
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What?? Really?? God damn I love Team Liquid and Shopify!
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United States33072 Posts
On November 17 2020 02:12 Xain0n wrote: I actually think that, this time, the tournament could really start too late for korean viewers(and maybe progamers); trying to find a balance between NA and KR is hard but probably something like 3/3.30 PM would have been a better compromise, more like DH Seasons finals. It also seems very reasonable to schedule all matches with koreans as early as possible and all matches with NA players as late as possible.
On the other hand, you guys don't know better than korean themselves, who were directly asked and, knowing in advance, can adjust their schedule accordingly. In general, you can't assume koreans will play worse at night because you would find uncomfortable playing under such conditions; this sounds like an excuse.
do you prefer a world where Korean players tweet every minor grievance they have like the foreign scene?
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On December 20 2020 09:50 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2020 02:12 Xain0n wrote: I actually think that, this time, the tournament could really start too late for korean viewers(and maybe progamers); trying to find a balance between NA and KR is hard but probably something like 3/3.30 PM would have been a better compromise, more like DH Seasons finals. It also seems very reasonable to schedule all matches with koreans as early as possible and all matches with NA players as late as possible.
On the other hand, you guys don't know better than korean themselves, who were directly asked and, knowing in advance, can adjust their schedule accordingly. In general, you can't assume koreans will play worse at night because you would find uncomfortable playing under such conditions; this sounds like an excuse.
do you prefer a world where Korean players tweet every minor grievance they have like the foreign scene? ![](/mirror/smilies/hypocrite2.gif)
I would prefer a world in which players voice their concerns when they have serious ones.
Korean also probably did in private seeing how many games were played in advance and cast from replays.
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On December 20 2020 10:02 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2020 09:50 Waxangel wrote:On November 17 2020 02:12 Xain0n wrote: I actually think that, this time, the tournament could really start too late for korean viewers(and maybe progamers); trying to find a balance between NA and KR is hard but probably something like 3/3.30 PM would have been a better compromise, more like DH Seasons finals. It also seems very reasonable to schedule all matches with koreans as early as possible and all matches with NA players as late as possible.
On the other hand, you guys don't know better than korean themselves, who were directly asked and, knowing in advance, can adjust their schedule accordingly. In general, you can't assume koreans will play worse at night because you would find uncomfortable playing under such conditions; this sounds like an excuse.
do you prefer a world where Korean players tweet every minor grievance they have like the foreign scene? ![](/mirror/smilies/hypocrite2.gif) I would prefer a world in which players voice their concerns when they have serious ones. Korean also probably did in private seeing how many games were played in advance and cast from replays.
Agreed! Glad we're getting replay games when they're necessary.
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So was anyone else shocked by Day9's knowledge of the current state of the game and recent history of major tournaments? It is as if he still actively pays attention to the game but simply does not play or make any content for the game. Totally his right but it just seems interesting to me.
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On December 20 2020 20:20 Syn Harvest wrote: So was anyone else shocked by Day9's knowledge of the current state of the game and recent history of major tournaments? It is as if he still actively pays attention to the game but simply does not play or make any content for the game. Totally his right but it just seems interesting to me.
he most likely just did a bit of research before his cast...
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I think the opposite he is quite out of the loop.
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On December 20 2020 20:20 Syn Harvest wrote: So was anyone else shocked by Day9's knowledge of the current state of the game and recent history of major tournaments? It is as if he still actively pays attention to the game but simply does not play or make any content for the game. Totally his right but it just seems interesting to me.
I saw these comments last time he casted as well. But can you give examples? Cause just like last time he was making very broad statements which have been true for quite some time while Rotti was really talking about details which were happening in the game.
And thats to be expected ofc, it was just fun to have day9 cast, but i really cant remember anything he said which really showed he watched a lot of sc2 recently..
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Baltimore, USA22250 Posts
All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
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On December 21 2020 09:28 EvilTeletubby wrote: All the more props to Day9. Who else could pick up and cast a game they have limited involvement in and still be entertaining and enjoyable as hell? The man is sick.
I'm kind of on the same thought train. Nothing that Sean said had me thinking he was super up to date with the current meta or anything but seriously, the guy is a Starcraft genius lol only he and a few others could just pick it up and make people like me and you happy haha
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Hi folks! Is there any news on a replay pack being released for TSL6? Thanks!
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I also got to give big props to Day9. I may be the only person in history to generally dislike his casting, but I thought he did a bang up job here. He was knowledgeable, entertaining, and really vibed well with Rotti.
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On December 22 2020 00:48 Osiris1316 wrote: Hi folks! Is there any news on a replay pack being released for TSL6? Thanks! Wondering as well.
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day9 was so general and really OFF in his casting
also it's not fair to have koreans play all night long but meh, viewers
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