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I think the time periods make it hard to compare the foreigners against one another. With Serral removed from the conversation for obvious reasons I think it boils down to three others. Neeb, Reynor and Stephano.
Neeb has bigger accomplishments than Reynor, and has been at that top level for longer, but Reynor has a good chance at outpacing him.
Stephano on the other hand, elevated the game in a way for both foreigners and Koreans alike. He might not have been the best in the world, but when he beat people it seemed effortless. He had the magic. Now there are 10+ Foreigners who can beat any of the Koreans in a BO3 or even 5 on any given day. But Stephano was the only one who could do that in that time period.
1. Serral
(many spaces here)
(many many spaces)
2. Neeb / Reynor / Stephano
(somewhere inbetween in and hard to place)
Jinro / IdrA / Naniwa against the likes of Elazer / Special / Clem etc
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That Naniwa pic / title had me laughing out loud audibly. Thanks for the share.
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There's not really any room for debate that #1 foreigner is Serral.
As for second, Snute is seriously underrated here. People have just forgotten about the dark ages of foreigner sc2 I guess.
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On August 05 2020 08:30 Zealously wrote:
I think the question of who is second best is far more interesting than who is the greatest foreigner of all time, to which the answer seems quite obviously "Serral". It's extremely telling that you could subtract any one, two, maybe even three, championships from his resume and it would still be supremely difficult to give the title to anyone else. I think there's a lot of merit to be given to Stephano and Neeb respectively for achieving things that were unheard of before them (competing reliably with the top brass in Stephano's case, winning a Korean championship in Neeb's) but Serral is beyond comparison.
It's probably Steph in 2nd for me...though I can see a case made for Naniwa instead...
Neeb and Scarlett are pretty close for 4th/5th
Snute 6th
idk where Reynor goes yet, need more time, special is prob 8th regardless
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China6330 Posts
Zero doubt Serral is the greatest but for 2nd place do not overlook Snute, his long and consistent career can't be understated.
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Serral - Of course that leads us to our modern day king. The case for Serral is clear to the new generation of SC2 fans. He has won almost $900,000 in earnings and has been on top of the world the last few years, becoming the most decorated foreigner arguably in all SC history. He is the first foreigner who not only could go toe to toe with top Koreans, but was actually favored. The main case against him is that he was active since WoL and HoTs and never competitive with the best, leading to the criticism he excels solely from LoTV patches.
He was going to school full time and couldn t be considered pro Back then. The Moment he finished school, he exploded like no one else ever did.
This is not even close. There s never been a foreigner, that was in considered the best Player of his race Period even by Kr pros.
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i cant believe people actually think the level of competition is greater now
every single NA pro quit, and a couple newcomers are the only thing keeping the entire continent relevant
Serral is the best foreigner, no one else was as close to relevant. it's just a shame the korean scene is dead enough that new talent doesn't want to pick up the game anymore.
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On August 05 2020 08:43 tigon_ridge wrote:
Stephano dominated the foreign scene while the whole SC2 pro scene was relatively weak in terms of skill. Even though the cash pools got cut, today's players far outclass players of the first generation—and it's not even close. Stephano dominated the foreign scene for a very short period, but his skills very obviously hit its plateau, and as the rest of the SC2 pros continued to improve, he was left behind. By the time Snute hit his peak, he was already much more skilled than Stephano ever was. However, Snute didn't dominate because the rest of the scene also got much stronger. Neeb looked like a Serral prototype in 2016-2017, winning the Kespa Cup and 3 WCS trophies. To me, Neeb is a far better contender than Stephano or Naniwa for foreigner goat. Not even close, in fact.
Serral makes all of them look miniscule, and I don't mind that at all. :D
In comes the young Reynor, already making his splash, toppling Korean after Korean, and somehow giving Serral the 3-1 asskicking that nobody anticipated.
Ehm Stephano was left behind because he quit sc2 for like 4-5? years.
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On August 05 2020 14:16 digmouse wrote:
Zero doubt Serral is the greatest but for 2nd place do not overlook Snute, his long and consistent career can't be understated.
I love me some Snute, but I don't put him in the running for GFOAT.
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On August 05 2020 16:21 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2020 08:43 tigon_ridge wrote:
Stephano dominated the foreign scene while the whole SC2 pro scene was relatively weak in terms of skill. Even though the cash pools got cut, today's players far outclass players of the first generation—and it's not even close. Stephano dominated the foreign scene for a very short period, but his skills very obviously hit its plateau, and as the rest of the SC2 pros continued to improve, he was left behind. By the time Snute hit his peak, he was already much more skilled than Stephano ever was. However, Snute didn't dominate because the rest of the scene also got much stronger. Neeb looked like a Serral prototype in 2016-2017, winning the Kespa Cup and 3 WCS trophies. To me, Neeb is a far better contender than Stephano or Naniwa for foreigner goat. Not even close, in fact.
Serral makes all of them look miniscule, and I don't mind that at all. :D
In comes the young Reynor, already making his splash, toppling Korean after Korean, and somehow giving Serral the 3-1 asskicking that nobody anticipated. Ehm Stephano was left behind because he quit sc2 for like 4-5? years.
He was falling behind long before he announced his plan to quit.
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Messi is a much better player than Maradona just because he dominates in an era where fotboll is played in a much higher level compared to the 80s. Their level of talent may be the same but the actually skill level is not even close.
Same thing with Serral compared to everyone else.
WOL and HOTS heroes are no where near the current level of play.
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I don't know how IdrA and ThorZaiN are not on the "Close but no cigar" list at the very least.
Everyone loves to meme about him, but IdrA was legitimately the best foreigner for quite a bit when the game was young. Two GSL Ro8s when beating Koreans was supposed to be impossible. Even won IEM, IPL, MLG, and ASUS ROG to boot.
And then there's ThorZaiN, who literally made Classic switch races. (He used to play Terran, remember?) His series against MC in TSL 3 is legendary. Not to mention the series against Polt to win Dreamhack. He has a real claim to best Swedish player of all time, even over Naniwa.
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Avilo o.O
ist not the GFOAT but maybe the GTFO
Serral by a mile and then it really depends on the metrics.
People like Stephano, Huk and Thorzain shaped the game, Scarlett and Special have been here forever, Reynor and to an extent Astrea / Clem are winning vs Korean competition...
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I find it poor taste and even insulting to have a "serious" poll where fantastic and intelligent players are put next to the alleged abuser. I won't mind seeing this disappearing.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 05 2020 15:23 Let it Raine wrote:
i cant believe people actually think the level of competition is greater now
every single NA pro quit, and a couple newcomers are the only thing keeping the entire continent relevant
Serral is the best foreigner, no one else was as close to relevant. it's just a shame the korean scene is dead enough that new talent doesn't want to pick up the game anymore.
The level of play is higher, the level of competition is lower. When KeSPA joined we had like 48 top players, even Code S ro32 was stacked and RO16 was insane. nowadays? Yeah, players may be faster and better, but we have so few of them. FFS nowadays we don't even have Code S ro32 because we don't have the players for it... WITH FOREIGNERS IN IT. Same fall applies to the foreign scene, where we had like 20 top players now we have maybe 10. There's no accident every ro8 looks similar 
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France12904 Posts
On August 05 2020 17:04 MockHamill wrote:
Messi is a much better player than Maradona just because he dominates in an era where fotboll is played in a much higher level compared to the 80s. Their level of talent may be the same but the actually skill level is not even close.
Same thing with Serral compared to everyone else.
WOL and HOTS heroes are no where near the current level of play.
You underestimate the previous games. And considering how strong zerg has been, how weakened Korea scene is...
Stephano is probably top 2 because he was able to go toe to toe with Koreans even training in Europe only, and dominated the shit out of other foreigners.
Remember his 60-2 run on ladder with one loss being a dc or something? He won a tournament shortly after.
Top 1 is Serral no doubt with the big BlizzCon win, dominance against other foreigners and best of his race at times.
Reynor only thrived in favorable era and is always in the shadows of Serral, but his 2nd place at BlizzCon is a nice achievement in spite of the huge bias towards zerg here. But I’d still put Naniwa, Snute, Neeb and even maybe Scarlett ahead of him. After him would be Special?
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My list:
1. Serral (There's no debate.)
2. Stephano (The one who made foreign fans believe. Late WoL zerg helped, but he was a pioneer in many ways.)
3. Neeb (He has had some slumps, but he's by far the best foreign P ever.)
4. Snute (The grinder.)
5. Nerchio (Look at esportsearnings. He was more succesful than ppl remember.)
6. Scarlett (Maybe a bit too high...but she's had great success over many years. Sadly, she's woefully inconsistent.)
7. Reynor (Best mechanical player of his generation.)
8. Special (He'd be higher on my list if he had won a big tournament. Best foreign T for me.)
9. Lilbow (insert practice meme here)
10. Naniwa (the true villain of SC2)
CNBC: Clem (skill wise he's outstanding, he needs a big win.), Thorzain (never forget the spoon), Jinro (2 nice GSL runs), Huk (pretty good in the first years of SC2), Mana (He's been here like...forever. And he's still capable of great runs.)
IdrA is hard to rank. His mindset was his biggest enemy.
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On August 05 2020 08:56 Totoro1 wrote:
I agree that Serral is obviously the best foreigner ever. I would add Huk and Jinro to the list of potential contenders for the podium because they are the only foreigners with Naniwa (especially Jinro, even if it was short-lived) that made me believe they could win Code S one day.
I completely agree. Jinro was the first foreigner to make a significantly deep run in a GSL. I don't put him on the same level as the foreigners that actually won major tournaments, but he definitely deserves a mention.
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No Jinro or HuK, they were really really good in their era 
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EPT
