EPTRedeye Steps Down From esports - Page 6
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
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JuanDi
45 Posts
On June 30 2020 02:17 Big-t wrote: Noooo, what have the social justice warriors done now?? What is happening lately? Has none been taught on how to solve problems like an adult? Why are we bringing drama more and more to social media? This has to stop... This isn't a "social justice warrior" thing. He punched someone and abused his power. He has ON-STREAM, recorded altercations with staff members. Remember the whole "what a fucking idiot" thing everyone memed about? That attitude is indicative of someone who doesn't control his temper and it isn't hard to imagine his getting angry and punching someone, as he is being accused of. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On July 01 2020 12:11 JuanDi wrote: He has ON-STREAM, recorded altercations with staff members. Remember the whole "what a fucking idiot" thing everyone memed about? That attitude is indicative of someone who doesn't control his temper and it isn't hard to imagine his getting angry and punching someone, as he is being accused of. ??? You can't be serious, this is completely wrong The 'what an idiot' incident was a random person who also had a stand in the convention hall IEM was at. He thought the SC2 tournaments volume was too loud and complained to Redeye who said he should take it up with production in the back. He was told not to walk through the set but he ignored this several times, and after they went live he walked through the set again in front of the camera, so Redeye called him an idiot. Random guy loses his shit and gets threatening, Redeye deescalates.. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2f079r/what_happened_on_iem_with_that_guy_shouting_at/ | ||
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fededevi
Italy45 Posts
On June 30 2020 22:41 deacon.frost wrote: Uh, what was the verdict of the court? Just being curious. We went from "innocent until proven guilty" to "guilty until proven innocent" to "guilty even if proven innocent" in a week, this is what happens when you abandon reason and follow the internet mob justice. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway702 Posts
It’s dangerous when we automatically assume the worst in people and start making up stories about them, like in the «what an idiot» clip. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24583 Posts
On July 01 2020 14:59 fededevi wrote: We went from "innocent until proven guilty" to "guilty until proven innocent" to "guilty even if proven innocent" in a week, this is what happens when you abandon reason and follow the internet mob justice. If you look back in the thread, you can find a number of sources for how abuse is far more prevalent than court sentencings suggest and the huge difficulties that are posed by saying that we need a court to sentence someone in order to do that. So it's rather the opposite than the lack of reason, it is the use of scientific investigations. | ||
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Mverdo
24 Posts
On July 01 2020 14:59 fededevi wrote: We went from "innocent until proven guilty" to "guilty until proven innocent" to "guilty even if proven innocent" in a week, this is what happens when you abandon reason and follow the internet mob justice. I am curious how much proof you would deem 'enough'? Apparantely several testimonies are not enough (in this case it's not realy he says - she says, but he says - a whole bunch of people say). Is video footage the only possible proof? Imho there seems to be enough evidence to assume (without any reasonable doubt) he is a very unpleasant person to work with and he abused his position. Him stepping down and quitting esports is a good thing in light of all this. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway702 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 01 2020 15:21 Heartland wrote: If you look back in the thread, you can find a number of sources for how abuse is far more prevalent than court sentencings suggest and the huge difficulties that are posed by saying that we need a court to sentence someone in order to do that. So it's rather the opposite than the lack of reason, it is the use of scientific investigations. You realise you're advocating for ignoring the court if you don't like it? You can call RE for everything of the rest, but calling person out for being at the court while being found innocent is against everything the western society claims to stand on. This is pretty hypocritical, because it can be used both way - oh, he was found guilty for beating his wife, but I am sure the judgement in abuses is flawed therefore he didn't beat her at all. Ignoring the court ruling you don't like is dangerous. We're supposed to respect judgements even if we don't like them in the same way we're supposed to treat released convicts as if they've never been sentenced(with the exception of guns and security stuff). And trust me I didn't like more than a few court rulings already  | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24583 Posts
On July 01 2020 16:39 deacon.frost wrote: You realise you're advocating for ignoring the court if you don't like it? You can call RE for everything of the rest, but calling person out for being at the court while being found innocent is against everything the western society claims to stand on. This is pretty hypocritical, because it can be used both way - oh, he was found guilty for beating his wife, but I am sure the judgement in abuses is flawed therefore he didn't beat her at all. Ignoring the court ruling you don't like is dangerous. We're supposed to respect judgements even if we don't like them in the same way we're supposed to treat released convicts as if they've never been sentenced(with the exception of guns and security stuff). And trust me I didn't like more than a few court rulings already I'm advocating nothing of the sort. I'm saying that some crimes, particularly abuse, are extremely hard to get anyone sentenced to. There is a very well documented international academic literature on how rape, abuse in the family, etc, rarely go to court, and that the court systems rarely sentence people. Yet, these things are alarmingly common and the idea that women lie, etc, is very rare. I am not sure what "Western society stands for" both has to do with it, and what Western society really stands for. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On July 01 2020 16:39 deacon.frost wrote: You realise you're advocating for ignoring the court if you don't like it? You can call RE for everything of the rest, but calling person out for being at the court while being found innocent is against everything the western society claims to stand on. This is pretty hypocritical, because it can be used both way - oh, he was found guilty for beating his wife, but I am sure the judgement in abuses is flawed therefore he didn't beat her at all. Ignoring the court ruling you don't like is dangerous. We're supposed to respect judgements even if we don't like them in the same way we're supposed to treat released convicts as if they've never been sentenced(with the exception of guns and security stuff). And trust me I didn't like more than a few court rulings already Ignore a court ruling is dangerous, in what context? If I read the material of a sentence and disagree with it that is dangerous? I have to (like good little sheep) think "Alright the court decided he is innocent, therefore I know too in my mind must think he is innocent". That is total BS, if the alternative to respect a court judgement is to take power in your own hands and go harass the guy then of course you are right. However we as individuals have the right of independant thought, I am allowed to believe the court was totalt shit and made the wrong decision and I am allowed to say that openly because this is part of the free world with free speech. I am not allowed to harass a person (for any reason) and if a person I believe is innocent is found guilty I am not allowed to break them out of jail but I strongly doubt anyone here is arguing for anything like that. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25621 Posts
For the record I don’t think it was proper to bring out his family issues into this, there seems more than enough other material out there. Reading various places, I can’t really put accurate numbers on things but it’s not like 95% of the scene are dog piling on him. There’s plenty of support, there’s probably as many if not more people saying ‘so what if he’s hard to work with, this is the real world’ etc. Myself, and I’m sure plenty of others here would probably give him a shot at redemption if the punching incident was a one time thing, he took a step back and sorted the issues that lead to it. You’re left with a relatively small proportion I believe who want him gone forever at any cost, at least from what I’ve read. So Redeye could fight this and return if he wanted, successfully I believe given the attitudes of the scene if this punching incident was a one-time deal. As he is not, my presumption is very much that it’s the tip of the iceberg and now the precedent in coming forward and being taken seriously has been established, his position would quickly become untenable if he did. I didn’t even like his statement. Very much frontloaded with woe on his side, with a small ‘sorry if I was a dick’ disclaimer at the end. | ||
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raff100
498 Posts
On July 01 2020 18:14 Shuffleblade wrote: Ignore a court ruling is dangerous, in what context? If I read the material of a sentence and disagree with it that is dangerous? I have to (like good little sheep) think "Alright the court decided he is innocent, therefore I know too in my mind must think he is innocent". That is total BS, if the alternative to respect a court judgement is to take power in your own hands and go harass the guy then of course you are right. However we as individuals have the right of independant thought, I am allowed to believe the court was totalt shit and made the wrong decision and I am allowed to say that openly because this is part of the free world with free speech. I am not allowed to harass a person (for any reason) and if a person I believe is innocent is found guilty I am not allowed to break them out of jail but I strongly doubt anyone here is arguing for anything like that. Banks said that there are journalists working on the home abuse cause regarding Redeye. Just wait a bit and you will have a look at the case and make a judgment yourself. I honestly don't care about it anymore, things that have been brought up by victims or witnesses and Redeye's tweets are enough. Things will become interesting if the guy tries to come back in the scene and pretend to be " reformed" . Let's see. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway702 Posts
He mentioned his mental health and family as reason. Maby thats all there is to it. Maby he doesnt want to be a pulic figure when a part of his viewers thinks hes been beating hos wheelchair bound wife and terrorising his family. Maby we have no idea whats going on inside his head, so please be carefull in looking for proof and facts in your own projections. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On July 01 2020 21:34 Wombat_NI wrote: The proof I need is Redeye, not stepping away for a bit, not taking steps to deal with anger issues or w/e but removing himself entirely from not just businesses but the entire industry he had a pretty big role in building. For the record I don’t think it was proper to bring out his family issues into this, there seems more than enough other material out there. Reading various places, I can’t really put accurate numbers on things but it’s not like 95% of the scene are dog piling on him. There’s plenty of support, there’s probably as many if not more people saying ‘so what if he’s hard to work with, this is the real world’ etc. Myself, and I’m sure plenty of others here would probably give him a shot at redemption if the punching incident was a one time thing, he took a step back and sorted the issues that lead to it. You’re left with a relatively small proportion I believe who want him gone forever at any cost, at least from what I’ve read. So Redeye could fight this and return if he wanted, successfully I believe given the attitudes of the scene if this punching incident was a one-time deal. As he is not, my presumption is very much that it’s the tip of the iceberg and now the precedent in coming forward and being taken seriously has been established, his position would quickly become untenable if he did. I didn’t even like his statement. Very much frontloaded with woe on his side, with a small ‘sorry if I was a dick’ disclaimer at the end. I don't think many people care if he leaves the industry or not. What matters is him changing, not because he wants to "reform" or "improve" but simply because everyone knows he is a bully and since his career is already hanging by a thread he would have to behave. Maybe its easier to just leave than to actually make an effort to not harass people. The punching incident is the smallest issue in my opinion, being actually violent is something that is openly seen, easily proven and therefore the easiest thing to look to. Bullying and harassment in work enviorment is worse because many times there is noting the victim can do if the perpetrator does it smoothly or/and has support from upper management. | ||
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raff100
498 Posts
On July 01 2020 21:43 Timebon3s wrote: You have absolutely no way of knowing why he is stepping down. He mentioned his mental health and family as reason. Maby thats all there is to it. Maby he doesnt want to be a pulic figure when a part of his viewers thinks hes been beating hos wheelchair bound wife and terrorising his family. Maby we have no idea whats going on inside his head, so please be carefull in looking for proof and facts in your own projections. Or maybe he was caught up for the bully he was, played the victim card so more victims are afraid to post other stories and disappeared to avoid more damage to his pubblic image. There are a lot of maybe, time will tell  | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25621 Posts
On July 01 2020 21:47 Shuffleblade wrote: I don't think many people care if he leaves the industry or not. What matters is him changing, not because he wants to "reform" or "improve" but simply because everyone knows he is a bully and since his career is already hanging by a thread he would have to behave. Maybe its easier to just leave than to actually make an effort to not harass people. The punching incident is the smallest issue in my opinion, being actually violent is something that is openly seen, easily proven and therefore the easiest thing to look to. Bullying and harassment in work enviorment is worse because many times there is noting the victim can do if the perpetrator does it smoothly or/and has support from upper management. I do agree 100%, I’ve said quite a lot in the now 60+ pages or whatever in the other thread. I would personally rather be punched in a hot-blooded exchange than be subject to sustained harassment and bullying in the workplace. Being constantly on edge with stress has far more detrimental effects than people realise, in general, plus I have a mental health condition that is greatly exacerbated by prolonged stress and I’d have to remove myself from such an environment for my mental and physical health. It’s a smaller part of a bigger issue, on the other hand it’s the smoking gun to convince people who would otherwise dismiss these claims as ‘stuff that happens in workplaces and the real world, people should man up’ or variants thereof. | ||
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JTCC
Netherlands21 Posts
On July 01 2020 22:34 Wombat_NI wrote: I do agree 100%, I’ve said quite a lot in the now 60+ pages or whatever in the other thread. I would personally rather be punched in a hot-blooded exchange than be subject to sustained harassment and bullying in the workplace. Being constantly on edge with stress has far more detrimental effects than people realise, in general, plus I have a mental health condition that is greatly exacerbated by prolonged stress and I’d have to remove myself from such an environment for my mental and physical health. It’s a smaller part of a bigger issue, on the other hand it’s the smoking gun to convince people who would otherwise dismiss these claims as ‘stuff that happens in workplaces and the real world, people should man up’ or variants thereof. I don't think anyone should have to choose between being punched or being bullied. My attitude and the way I carry myself through work and life means I have never been subjected to it. My mental strength means workplace politics or attempted harassment has no stressful effect on me. I sympathize with anyone who does experiences it and it is no fault of their own. Absolutely nobody deserves violence, harassment or bullying of any kind. It is something I can't even imagine subjecting anyone to. | ||
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linestein
United States210 Posts
However, at the same time, I can appreciate why there are specific avenues for addressing these kinds of concerns. Sexual harassment and assault can potentially damn you, making it impossible for you to pursue a career. Because the consequences of such allegations are so severe, it is really better to deal with such problems formally. I am not saying that the victims are wrong. They are perhaps very right. The problem is that these accusations are very severe and potentially damning. I just wish that such severe allegations could be made formally where they are appropriate. It is not necessarily sad that Redeye has lost his career. Perhaps this is what should have happened if his conducted required it. But this is a very serious effect. That is why serious allegations should be handled formally. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 01 2020 10:39 joon wrote: tasteless and artosis, yall better not have done anything (except verbally abuse GuyInTheChat--im looking at you artosis) More and more, I hope nobody they've come in contact with accuses them for any reason whatsoever. They can still have not done anything, but get chased out of the scene. Unless I missed something, Redeye maintains that he never punched anyone? Just words delivered angrily into someone's face? | ||
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