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Most of the changes look good on paper. Creep might be too easy to deny though, that will need testing.
The only change here I am absolutely against is that Widow Mine garbage. Look, let's be real here. How are faster invisible mines going to hold the 3rd in TvP more easily? Why wouldn't this instead be used to augment Widow Mine drops, where this WILL be a problem just like it was in the past.
You guys (the balance team) need to think about these things a little harder because this is a whole lot like licking an icy metal pole, losing a chunk of your tongue to it and years later, wondering if you'll get stuck by licking an icy metal pole again....it's kind of dumb. If this change goes through, you need to give Widow Mines the Hellbat treatment; make them take up 4 cargo space in a Medivac. That stops 4 invisible mine drops without completely killing off mine drop play while allowing Terran to secure their 3rd more easily.
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Dominican Republic627 Posts
On May 01 2020 07:03 BabelFish1 wrote:
Most of the changes look good on paper. Creep might be too easy to deny though, that will need testing.
The only change here I am absolutely against is that Widow Mine garbage. Look, let's be real here. How are faster invisible mines going to hold the 3rd in TvP more easily? Why wouldn't this instead be used to augment Widow Mine drops, where this WILL be a problem just like it was in the past.
You guys (the balance team) need to think about these things a little harder because this is a whole lot like licking an icy metal pole, losing a chunk of your tongue to it and years later, wondering if you'll get stuck by licking an icy metal pole again....it's kind of dumb. If this change goes through, you need to give Widow Mines the Hellbat treatment; make them take up 4 cargo space in a Medivac. That stops 4 invisible mine drops without completely killing off mine drop play while allowing Terran to secure their 3rd more easily.
how it will hold the 3rd in TvP more easily? well protoss now needs to invest in a ROBO faster if the dont want to die to invisible mines that the reason behind that. also if i place a mine on top of your 3rd Protoss, Zerg wont be able to take it since u need detection... Protoss has been taking a 3rd with no drawbacks very ez all this time.
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On May 01 2020 09:12 BonitiilloO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2020 07:03 BabelFish1 wrote:
Most of the changes look good on paper. Creep might be too easy to deny though, that will need testing.
The only change here I am absolutely against is that Widow Mine garbage. Look, let's be real here. How are faster invisible mines going to hold the 3rd in TvP more easily? Why wouldn't this instead be used to augment Widow Mine drops, where this WILL be a problem just like it was in the past.
You guys (the balance team) need to think about these things a little harder because this is a whole lot like licking an icy metal pole, losing a chunk of your tongue to it and years later, wondering if you'll get stuck by licking an icy metal pole again....it's kind of dumb. If this change goes through, you need to give Widow Mines the Hellbat treatment; make them take up 4 cargo space in a Medivac. That stops 4 invisible mine drops without completely killing off mine drop play while allowing Terran to secure their 3rd more easily. how it will hold the 3rd in TvP more easily? well protoss now needs to invest in a ROBO faster if the dont want to die to invisible mines that the reason behind that. also if i place a mine on top of your 3rd Protoss, Zerg wont be able to take it since u need detection... Protoss has been taking a 3rd with no drawbacks very ez all this time.
The thing is that im not sure its worth it to spend 100/100 on an armory just for mine cloak until mid game. will this really help terran take a third instead of going heavy 2 base in tvp? The primary problem in the mu is how fast toss takes thier third, often with opening where they go twilight robo so they have detection any way. I think this might matter if toss were more afraid of 1 base attacks from terran but honestly between batteries, blink, and imortals one base is not realy threatening so thiers not a big risk in goinf twilight+robo+fast third. Its very common for toss to have a robo out by the time terran can finish an armory as is so I dont see this working as intended. Also even with cloacked mines i think if terran goes for mines and an armor they will be very vulnerable to 2 base blink allin, since stalkers can outmicro mines it may make any kind of fast armory build prity bad. It is a mid game buff, maybe a buff to mech since you can secure space earlier with widow mines, and moderate buff to tvz bio, which i dont think is needed.
Im also concerned about battery overcharge, this seems to good vs harass in mid and late game. It also seems to strong vs 1 base terran and zerg. and also to good vs 2 base tank push which i dont think the mine change will fix from being the dominant meta strat in tvp.
If you really want terran to take a third base the strength or timing of blink stalkers in the matchup needs to be looked at or the strength and timing of proxied gateway units, basically the whole metagame right now is created by how dominant just 5 or 6 blink stalkers are vs anything Terran can make until stim is done. The reason t started going 2 base tank builds is because 1-1-1 is still the most solid way to open since it gives you the tools needed to deal with toss 1 base allins and the 2 base blink allin, while terran is going 1-1-1 on 2 base they cant really do direct attacks until they get more infisturcutre and gas units made so during this time a toss with blink can grab a fast third, hence the meta.
Maybe, cloak mines help with this but with decent micro blink stalkers cant be hit by mines acept when blinking on to them so im not sure it helps all that much.
Also I think this is to many tvz buffs to fast for no real reason, tvz is very even right now even at the pro level. maybe consider these changes if the maps look more like last season.
Toss needs help vs zerg, but I don't think this is the right way to go about it.
Overall the oracle change is good toss needs help clearing creep, although im not a fan of infinite tags in tvp. maybe toss can use a small hit squad of 2 oracles to contain early creep spread much like hellions do for terran.
I also have mixed fealings about the bane nerf, banes are fine in zvt, they are strong, but some units should feel strong or a race just feels week and unfun to play. They are to good vs toss but Im not sure this is the right way to fix them, Maybe giving them the armored tag would help instead. stalkers and imortals both do + dmg to armored. Or maybe a specific interatction were banes don do as much dmg to shields, something more mu specfic is needed. I dont think banes need a tvz nerf at this time.
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On May 01 2020 03:53 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2020 03:39 ActioN1 wrote:
A lot of good changes and updates but still things that need to be fixed. I feel like the developers don't play this game whatsoever to really know what needs to be changed. They somewhat nerfed zerg with queens and banes and creep. They helped toss to not get all-in'd all the time too. They need to fix the BC buff though. Still work needs to be done. With the decreased queen range, they can balance the BC by making it's shooting while moving feature part of the yamato upgrade. That way BCs are still good, can still kite, but require more care then just right-click moving to kill stuff.
Considering BCs are used mostly as harass and not so much as lategame and the fact Yamato had its upgrade time nerfed, I would say that would kill BC play, non-moving shooting BCs are incredibly useless.
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I hope none of the changes except the HT and infestor change go through. And even then I don’t think these buffs are enough to balance pvt and zvt
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the only way to reduce the strenght of the banelings over the game (no drastic changes...) is to increase the risk for a zerg player to waste his attack :
It can be done by increasing a little bit the price of these units and with a small nerf (a tiny reduction on the area of damage). It s absolutely necessary for Banelings to reach their targets, so -5 HP doesn t feel necessary.
I already show you how reduce the strenght of Banelings here (LoTV Banelings is the case 1)
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/fYJKHDK/Banelings-revision.png)
Despite this solution, Protoss units have a larger box collision in general so this effect couldn t work well.
Banelings radius size is 0.75 of zealot (zealot = 1)
![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/jbFZ2sW/Protoss-radius.png)
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On May 01 2020 09:12 BonitiilloO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2020 07:03 BabelFish1 wrote:
Most of the changes look good on paper. Creep might be too easy to deny though, that will need testing.
The only change here I am absolutely against is that Widow Mine garbage. Look, let's be real here. How are faster invisible mines going to hold the 3rd in TvP more easily? Why wouldn't this instead be used to augment Widow Mine drops, where this WILL be a problem just like it was in the past.
You guys (the balance team) need to think about these things a little harder because this is a whole lot like licking an icy metal pole, losing a chunk of your tongue to it and years later, wondering if you'll get stuck by licking an icy metal pole again....it's kind of dumb. If this change goes through, you need to give Widow Mines the Hellbat treatment; make them take up 4 cargo space in a Medivac. That stops 4 invisible mine drops without completely killing off mine drop play while allowing Terran to secure their 3rd more easily. how it will hold the 3rd in TvP more easily? well protoss now needs to invest in a ROBO faster if the dont want to die to invisible mines that the reason behind that. also if i place a mine on top of your 3rd Protoss, Zerg wont be able to take it since u need detection... Protoss has been taking a 3rd with no drawbacks very ez all this time.
the most common opener in PvT right now (blink) goes twilight -> gate -> robo. I don't know if there are any pro games that get a third base without getting a robo
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[B]On May 01 2020 03:03 brickrd wrote: and yes, the game being playable for non pros is 8000 times more important than esportz balance. the game can be altered in ways that both address pro balance and don't shit on casuals, it's not mutually exclusive 
true but this change seems geared more towards casuals than pros who dont really have trouble defending this
also look at the pvz change... that change is geared more towards casuals as well. FB range vs vipers matters in like 2% of games because protoss every base protoss takes drops their win percentage by about 20. lol
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Good changes overall, I like them. I am not sure about the overload spell, but let's see.
No way the baneling nerf goes through, it'll promote Terran 2-base pushes a lot. I think a better solution is to increase its supply cost to 0.75 or 1. They are just too powerful for the supply cost, not too powerful overall.
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Heads Up: This post is structured by quotes.Each change is adressed, a Conclusion and Summary is given at the end.
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Queen
Anti-air weapon range decreased from 8 to 7.
BC openers itself are absolutely not okay in terms of balance.
Yes the match up and the flow of the game is balanced...
But having such powerful unit so early and you can not lose it, doesn't deserve a nerf of its counter, at all.
If you do this, there should be compensation to the BC or early game anti air options (zerg). Also changing ranges on units all the time is weird, nerf it ONCE or buff it ONCE (generally said), then let it be.
Additionally, it's hugely buffing Protoss Air indirectly! As Hydras are useless in general here, Queens are important. (...)
=> "bad"and "bad" - looking at the other changes and no compensations (the one that looks like one is useless).
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Baneling
Centrifugal Hooks no longer grants Banelings +5 HP.
Centrifugal Hooks cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
Serral lost to Zest in convincing manner using Banes. I don't agree such a small health unit should get less health. You need a big number of these units, and vs terran alot of zerglings, too........ to make them even reach the enemy... they just die really quick! Perhaps you want other units, too?
Edit: Fact, and then I go into But:
Banelings are countered by Storm! They die extremely quick to any combination of storm-pro-micro without connecting!
But The Zerg player has a chance: To micro ALOT, Juggle, Juke, Spread, Back and Forth, Zone, AntiZone, Swarm, 4prong Attacks, You name it
- JUST to make this only chance that he has (here) work. If he doesn't the Bllings won't deal Any damage. So yes... it's possible, however basically the zerg has to has to have superior micro here, OR be just ahead by macro, positioning scouting etc.
<- that was all the "But" - yes it can and does work , still not in favor.
The typical Immortal against everything composition (yes every game, they build it vs Hydras (...), I have tons of examples gathered up in my lists) together with the easy to warp-in Archons, supported by Storm and reinforcing Zealots is no where weak here.
Thus there is no reason to buff this protoss state of this particular scenario and unit composition more. The problems are else where, if you want to call them problems in the first place.
Removing the 5 bonus health of 30 is a 17% Health drop.
=> "bad"
Idea:
Why don't you do something about cooky-cutter immortal-every-game compositions even vs compositions that are not armored anywhere?
Balance starts with improving states, not fixing the current meta, imo.
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Nexus
New ability: “Battery Overcharge”
Effect: Overcharges a target Shield Battery, increasing its shield restoration rate by 100% and causing it to regenerate 100 energy over 21 seconds.
Cost: 75 Energy.
Cooldown: 0 seconds.
Range: 8.
I think shield batteries are already OP in starcraft which ought to not overtune defenses. I always feel shield batteries are too good in what they do (When I play them!, or also vs them). Just look at muta play lotv vs hots/wol... Look at proxy robo with shield batteries. Look at proxy air with shield batteries, these are all crank-strategies completely messing up ones base-build and macro, just enabled by a very very capable structure. Do I say the flow and match up is imbalanced, no, but you can clearly see the capability of said unit/defense. (here not even being used defensively)
=> "bad"
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Oracle
Revelation energy cost decreased from 50 to 25.
Revelation cooldown increased from 2 seconds to 10 seconds.
Revelation duration decreased from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
I think Revelation is an extremely powerful ability in terms of potential, because having vision without any unit being there is too good on high level. I don't see a reason to buff it even more by decreasing its energy cost.
Yes energy cost buffs are cool, but compare them to other units.... Raven, Infestors, etc have quite high energy costs, too..
=> "bad"
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Jeez even the overseer Changeling costs 50 energy...
Why don't you buff Changeling one to make up for it?
25 energy, (down from 50),
half duration.
WHICH ENEMY WILL LET YOU HAVE THEM 100+ second??? One click by an SCV-> dead. (This is an emphasis and not an emotional outburst)
slightly more cooldown (5 or 10, down from zero) - (You don't need 100 changelings at once)
Protoss Air is already soo powerful: Granting easy third, granting alot of vision and map control, granting the option to harass and forcing the enemy to defend. Additionally they are extremely good with their Stasis Traps in Pro Play (Zest, Special to name some plays), effectively reducing the enemies Surface Area to backdoor-the army.
=> The oracle is already SUCH a powerful tool and unit for little cost (you need very few...), it doesn't need to be buffed in being even more versatile. Despite its tech-cost (stargate, and some gas, uh). It's cool oracles can reveal any invisible, but should they be super versatile in also having such low cooldown and energy to do it?? (yes I know cd is increased, 10s is still super low).
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Creep Tumor
“Armored” tag removed.
“Light” tag added.
I think the non-cancel-patch (last patch) was already pretty huge. A creep tumor dies easily when you focus it. A single reaper can kill a spawning creep tumor in the early game, easily.... with a queen nearby!
Additionally having the counter to the zerg early game also countering their creep-structures seems pretty out of the box. Besides: A structure should not be Light looking at this balance! Anti-Light units are here to counter quick nimble units not structures which require alot of multitasking to be layed.
Additionally I see many PvZs where the protoss easily completely put the zerg back to "stone age" (no creep), yes games of Pros like Serral . Simply by using observers.
BECAUSE WHY OBservers? The robotics produces the best unit of protoss: Immortals - they are even built vs pure hydra compositions! (Pro play, almost any I see). So.... Every protoss has observers anyways. No reason to super-simple-dumb-down their strongest defensive opening: Air.
=> "bad" !!
Idea: If anything make creep tumors be more targetable by: EMP for instance. I recently watched a best off: 2013, gumiho vs losira (Source: "2013 GSL Season 1 - StarCraft 2"). Awesome game - And while Terran's EMP is supposed to reveal invisible units, it doesn't reveal Creep. Would be good if it have worked against Losira back then, would work in general.
New Mechanic to EMP:
EMPs reveal creep
As for the ZvP
Rather change some mid game combat and all-ins, rather than 2x nerfs to the creep. (just in this Update, alone, 3x with the last patch)
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Widow Mines
“Drilling Claws upgrade no longer grants Widow Mines invisibility. Instead, the existence of an Armory will grant Widow Mines invisibility.
I like Terran, I love the widow mine, anyways again...
I am sorry, but even this one I think doesn't fit... Drilling Claws is a good upgrade, it's nice that you have to commit a bit for this one, and combining it with tank play (having the techlab) is cool.
I don't agree that balance changes should suit only the current meta - there might be other "meta"s coming, or even in work already which you don't know about.
As far as this upgrade is concerned it will not be as strong as in HotS with Bio (because you want the fast armory/upgrades anyways). and I think it was too good.
=> I hate to say it, so I won't. Read the text.
Idea:
- Rather improve it's synergies with tanks
FOR INSTANCE: Reduce Splash vs Burrowed Units (like the widow mine) (would include any units, zerg, too, but hardly relevant, since not the direct damage, just splash - this highly profits for widow mines, which might eat friendly fire when the foe comes to close)
or
- its special task: Spotting (my first idea when seeing the widow mine, and it still persists until today after experiencing the game... give it the ability to
Extra Ability "deep-burrow" - in that stance decreasing it's supply cost to 1:
- Being Uncontrolable anymore (no unburrow), the only option would be to selfdestruct (auto-explode around the widow mine with it, when cooldown ready). To free up supply.
This would allow you to use this unit as a spotting tool or even defensively, without worrying about your army size. (too much)
To balance:
There would be cooldowns and casting times for everything to not make this abuseable, i.e. right before a battle to reduce supply (and build more units) - so casting time could be 5 to 10 seconds (which is enough for defensive or spotting positions!)
Why is this important? Terran lacks a non-food defense compared to the other races.
- MASS CANNON/SHIELD BATTERIES = 0 food
- MASS CRAWLERS (spores) = 0 food
- Widow mines = 2 food, tanks = 3 food, PAs are unreliable/big/long to build and weak for their cost - well they are quite tanky, but that is only good for defending your very mining position. Turrets only AA.
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Feedback
Even more power to the protoss Air. (2nd in this "Update")
Yet ANOTHER Zerg range impairment..
(Neural, anyone?) (broodlord anyone?)
=> "bad"
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MICROBIAL WHAT?
I completely ignored this one because it gave me a huge Laugh and I read on, :DD
THIS ABILITY IS OVERPOWERED AS DRUGS ALREADY!!!!!!!! (this is not emotional, it just EMPHASIZES its importancy...). I won't go into details go figure or write me a pm if you are interested.
>>>BUT...<<<
- Blizzard didn't adress the main problem with it........
- That is: You won't stand in one spot with your Hydras, Ultras, you name it, against Disruptors, Storm, or having overroled the enemy in a few seconds (because the protoss has almost only air).
- The design of this ability is completely not-useful
- It doesn't help to BUFF, BUFF, BUFF it again, something you don't use. Like Buffing Space-Ships in Human Evolution, when (almost) no one intends to fly anywhere (huh? example out of thin air I know).
=> "BAD"
Imo if this was to be anywhere useful just a slightly bit, it would be when the Infestor could cast it while being burrowed...
- In Result I believe Blizzard knows how strong it is (not useful but strong...) and with this update tries to make people actually discover it: "Hey I have an infestor, and Hey it can cast this orange button here, let's try"
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#Conclusion
My final conclusion is: This is way too many bads.
Fixes:
1) Old idea:
Don't listen to the pros about
- what they want to nerf! (DON'T - it's extremely biased, imo)
Instead listen to
- what they think about their own race: "What is too strong about my race?" (DO)
-> Rather ask a Zerg what he thinks is too strong (regarding PvZ).
Not even to forget, that it might be the players making the race look very strong, rather than the race itself (SERRAL that had been burning through tournaments with revolutionary results, almost a Savior)
-> or the Protoss what is too strong about 3 base vs 2 base terran (regarding TvP)
These things are a sum of vastly overpowered.
2) No clue who it is that works on Microbial-What (I know the term, but this is funny).
- look at the design and the very deadly matchup, not the strength/cost of the spell.
Thanks for reading.
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#Summary
tl;dr
Hand-holding meta upd(gr)ades for terran 2x !
Zerg-unit-Ranges messed up more 2x...
Protoss air buffed 3x ! (would be even more when including the previous "update")
Creep nerfed 3x !
Zerg useless buffs! lool
=> I am sorry:
bad
bad
bad
bad
bad
bad
bad
bad
As much as I am positive with blizzard in usual, it still seems all the ideas from blizzard are "bad" this time this year, I can't lie about it. It's sad that I didn't find one cool thing.
-> Just don't do anything.
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Baneling nerf is going to be HUGE.
Queen nerf is fair and kind. I would go ahead and preemptively nerf BCs a little though. Maybe gate tactical jump behind an upgrade.
Creep tumor change is pretty funny. I like it. I wanted vision to change, but this actually makes more sense in a way.
Oracle change is really interesting... 15 seconds of vision is not very much, so it'll be a lot harder to keep tabs on the zerg lategame army. But it'll also make clearing creep easier... It was a direction I was not expecting, but I'm not upset about it.
Battery overcharge ... I suppose it could be cool to bind a battery to a hotkey and target each unit to get healed up during a fight... I'd rather have the energy cost be a little higher though. Can we push it to a more difficult-to-manage energy cost like 85? That way defending comes at an attentional cost to macro management optimization, so attacking is more attractive.
Widow mine change makes a lot of sense. It makes the armory a more attractive building to get earlier, which opens up options: Like 2/2 bio or even doing some cool stuff with hellbats.
Overall decent changes.
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"Battery overcharge ... I suppose it could be cool to bind a battery to a hotkey and target each unit to get healed up during a fight... I'd rather have the energy cost be a little higher though. Can we push it to a more difficult-to-manage energy cost like 85? That way defending comes at an attentional cost to macro management optimization, so attacking is more attractive."
Agree with this, this is a pretty big buff to Protoss defensive capabilities, and it's shockingly to fix a mirror march up that we all know is bad but it's just bad because Protoss design is just kind of "bad" in a sense with things like Gateway and such.
Ramble ramble, it should have some form of risk/reward, I really like your idea.
"Queen nerf is fair and kind. I would go ahead and preemptively nerf BCs a little though. Maybe gate tactical jump behind an upgrade."
Absolutely agree, time for BC play to go back to the late game in general imo. The BC harass thing is an insult to the spirit of the game to me and shows how desperate the balance team was to make tier 3 units feel important. As clearly evidenced by the massive buffs given to Carriers which are now strong as Hell and the well known power of the Brood Lord.
Seriously, get this unit back to the late game where it belongs. Nothing more demeaning in SC2 then a tier 3 unit being turned into a complete gimmick and used a form of low brain guaranteed, "Well now the BC will fly around and get 10 drone kills...the Zerg will wittle it down and it will Tactical Jump back to base to be repaired...rinse..repeat..." The play and counter play is very linear and boring and just plain stupid. It would be like Brood Lords sucking in the late game but powerful if you rush Hive? Like what the actual hell man..
This patch is actually quite a sizeable nerf for Zerg against Terran. The baneling will have a harder time connecting with bio, all the while the reduction in Queen range will certainly make aerial harassment much more potent. Terran is really going to be able to set the tempo and force the Zerg to potentially be very defensive.
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BC has been used in various way with the new teleport ability, the combinaison with the auto-turret fire while BC is moving and his Yamato cannon isn t an absolute none sense.
I think we all agree BC is coming too soon and should be a little bit tweaked. I already say as proposal to cancel his teleportation if the unit recieves above one damage during the transfer.
A poll could be done to resume the idea of community.
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The BC would be absolutetely terrible then. Its already a huge investmen to get them out and again queens should them down just fine most of the time. Nerfing it further would mean terran will just stop using it as a opener alltogether
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On May 04 2020 03:26 ilax30 wrote:
The BC would be absolutetely terrible then. Its already a huge investmen to get them out and again queens should them down just fine most of the time. Nerfing it further would mean terran will just stop using it as a opener alltogether
Who cares? The balance team should be changing the BC to fulfill it's original role anyways. A heavily armored late game starship unit, not an early game harass.
And in what world do Queens burn them down just fine? If you lose a BC to Queens or at the least aren't scoring 10 + drone kills you are doing something way way wrong.
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Getting rid of BC rushes would be a very welcome change tbh.
Needing an upgrade for Tactical Jump could be a good solution. But something would need to be done about having two long upgrades on the Fusion Core, perhaps just moving BC upgrades to the Tech lab (while still requiring the fusion core ofc).
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Without entering in a harrassement discussion, i think the "burrow upgrade" is under used.. I already thought to a bonus for some burrowed units as the roach to force more Terran scan. The ability will grants to the drone or the roach a +X armor bonus when burrowed. By this way, a unit with a fast cooldown on his attack will struggle during drones harrasement.
Then if a BC comes in the mineral line when drones are burrowed, his DPS (49) is : (49 - 6 * X) lesser.
For +2 armor, you save 25% of your drone + scan cost.
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On May 04 2020 19:11 Vision_ wrote:
Without entering in a harrassement discussion, i think the "burrow upgrade" is under used.. I already thought to a bonus for some burrowed units as the roach to force more Terran scan. The ability will grants to the drone or the roach a +X armor bonus when burrowed. By this way, a unit with a fast cooldown on his attack will struggle during drones harrasement.
Then if a BC comes in the mineral line when drones are burrowed, his DPS (49) is : (49 - 6 * X) lesser.
For +2 armor, you save 25% of your drone + scan cost.
I always wished burrowed units would take less splash damage.
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On May 04 2020 19:20 WaesumNinja wrote:
I always wished burrowed units would take less splash damage.
Yes it could help because burrowed units are easy to see depending the maps.
PS : To balance the overall idea, Command Center with an orbital command and Planetary Forteress could go on to load SCV. To their side Protoss has battery shield.
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On May 04 2020 12:06 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2020 03:26 ilax30 wrote:
The BC would be absolutetely terrible then. Its already a huge investmen to get them out and again queens should them down just fine most of the time. Nerfing it further would mean terran will just stop using it as a opener alltogether Who cares? The balance team should be changing the BC to fulfill it's original role anyways. A heavily armored late game starship unit, not an early game harass. And in what world do Queens burn them down just fine? If you lose a BC to Queens or at the least aren't scoring 10 + drone kills you are doing something way way wrong.
With the exception of Yamatoing and Jumping BCs (wich got weaker since they added a cooldown before Jumping) are pretty bad as lategame; carriers, tempest and broods "work" (heavy quotations) because they have long range, BC having such a short range and being so slow makes them an awful lategame army.
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EPT
