good changes but i predict blizzard will backpedal
im literally 90% winrate vs terran this season after about a 2 year break, i paly between 4k and 5k players and mine drops do nothing, even when i dont see them coming. i just keep making probes and doing my thing. buffing mines isn't terrible idea.. but low skill players will whine on bnet and here about how being "forced" into buying detection is so game losing for protoss
these same players neglect to realize that if you dont scan for observers/build a raven vs toss, they see everything you do and crush it hard, dt build ends the game vs zerg with nearly no risk for toss and every pvp build has detection of some kind. lol.
people just have PTSD from losses from mine drops where they more than likely had more than ample ability to defend it, but played bad, and are unable to recognize the difference between balance issues and their own lack of skill. hence, TL poll. havent posted here in a while.. just think its funny that people have literally thousands of posts whining about this game but when any meaningful change is promoted they vote it down.
I don't like that a lot of the balance changes are so related to destroying mineral lines. (widow mine and queen range changes)
It should be a dramatic moment, when one player is really playing better than the other or the other one totally drops the ball. Actual army vs army fights are way more interesting for both viewers and players.
If a matchup is broken in the lategame, the response should not be "well let's make it so that their economy is crippled in the early game"
Instead why not buff the carrier? We only see it PvZ anyway i think, or maybe vs Terran mech (rare). What about an ability which instantly builds or rebuilds and launches all interceptors, but costs a bunch of minerals more than the usual building? Some interesting economic ramifications there as well.
On April 30 2020 22:25 Harris1st wrote: Very good changes for the pro scene. Horrible changes for everyone below I guess. We may actually see Terran winrate below GM level rise quite a bit, widow mines and BC rushes will become absolutely atrocious to deal with
This also worries me, BC rushes are very strong and do 100% guaranteed damage, the Queen nerf (justified) will make this even worse. I predict a nerf to BC's very soon, honestly to me BC rushes are one of the stupidest things in this game for both the pro scene and for all the normies.
It's a tier 3 unit that can be rushed out to do harassment but still sucks once dedicated AA is out on the field? How dumb, let the BC be a late game powerhouse, not some gimmick unit.
On April 30 2020 22:25 Harris1st wrote: Very good changes for the pro scene. Horrible changes for everyone below I guess. We may actually see Terran winrate below GM level rise quite a bit, widow mines and BC rushes will become absolutely atrocious to deal with
This also worries me, BC rushes are very strong and do 100% guaranteed damage, the Queen nerf (justified) will make this even worse. I predict a nerf to BC's very soon, honestly to me BC rushes are one of the stupidest things in this game for both the pro scene and for all the normies.
It's a tier 3 unit that can be rushed out to do harassment but still sucks once dedicated AA is out on the field? How dumb, let the BC be a late game powerhouse, not some gimmick unit.
BC rushes aren't terribly strong to begin with because they delay the 3rd base for some guaranteed damage, they are easily scouted, lose to roach rushes and don't require a special setup from the zerg anyways. They rely on positioning, micro anf multitasking. Builds like this are exactly what make the game fun to play, unlike all-or-nothing DT allins or similiar high tech crap that you have to be extremely diligent about. Or sitting duck games where the nonzerg player has to wait for a critical mass until they can move their whole deathball on creep.
Also if your BCs suck once corruptors hit the field it means you wasted their jump on offense on the offchance to do slightly more damage on the first jump. And Yamato let's you trade quite nicely over time with corruptors, so BC hit squats can stay active all game long, chipping away on bases and armies.
On April 30 2020 22:25 Harris1st wrote: Very good changes for the pro scene. Horrible changes for everyone below I guess. We may actually see Terran winrate below GM level rise quite a bit, widow mines and BC rushes will become absolutely atrocious to deal with
This also worries me, BC rushes are very strong and do 100% guaranteed damage, the Queen nerf (justified) will make this even worse. I predict a nerf to BC's very soon, honestly to me BC rushes are one of the stupidest things in this game for both the pro scene and for all the normies.
It's a tier 3 unit that can be rushed out to do harassment but still sucks once dedicated AA is out on the field? How dumb, let the BC be a late game powerhouse, not some gimmick unit.
Blizzard literally said
Our biggest concern is how instrumental large numbers of Queens typically are at dealing with Battlecruiser openers, which did not exist in the past. However, if this becomes an issue, our current thinking is that we’d prefer to address it from the Battlecruiser side than the Queen side.
They would rather tone down the queen anti air and change the BC than have queen as the BC slayer.
I don t play anymore but BC feels game breaker as every teleportation function in this kind of game.
The simple solution is to "pre-cast" an illusion of BC when the ability is launched. Then the teleportation is cancelled if the illusion have received one damage or more during X seconds. It s uniform cause Ghosts has already this kind of function,
I propose these changes but i m not sure to know the issue ?
Is it because BCs spawns directly upon your Zerg creep (near bases i mean) ?
On April 30 2020 23:30 Zrana1 wrote: I don't like that a lot of the balance changes are so related to destroying mineral lines. (widow mine and queen range changes)
It should be a dramatic moment, when one player is really playing better than the other or the other one totally drops the ball. Actual army vs army fights are way more interesting for both viewers and players.
If a matchup is broken in the lategame, the response should not be "well let's make it so that their economy is crippled in the early game"
Instead why not buff the carrier? We only see it PvZ anyway i think, or maybe vs Terran mech (rare). What about an ability which instantly builds or rebuilds and launches all interceptors, but costs a bunch of minerals more than the usual building? Some interesting economic ramifications there as well.
??? i play protoss and i don't see any reason to buff the carrier... carriers are already strong, and i don't see any reason they need to be more common in pvp or against bio. the proposed creep, queen and feedback changes all theoretically affect lategame PvZ where carriers are meant to shine (feedback helps in lategame and queen/creep should help protoss to control the map and the zerg economy)
for non pro players on mid level ladder carriers can already be used with moderate success in both PvP and PvT. why do we need that at pro level? do we want more mass air turtle games?
however i agree about mines and that it's stupid to balance the game around spontaneous mineral line destruction
On April 30 2020 22:27 c0sm0naut wrote: good changes but i predict blizzard will backpedal
im literally 90% winrate vs terran this season after about a 2 year break, i paly between 4k and 5k players and mine drops do nothing, even when i dont see them coming. i just keep making probes and doing my thing. buffing mines isn't terrible idea.. but low skill players will whine on bnet and here about how being "forced" into buying detection is so game losing for protoss
these same players neglect to realize that if you dont scan for observers/build a raven vs toss, they see everything you do and crush it hard, dt build ends the game vs zerg with nearly no risk for toss and every pvp build has detection of some kind. lol.
people just have PTSD from losses from mine drops where they more than likely had more than ample ability to defend it, but played bad, and are unable to recognize the difference between balance issues and their own lack of skill. hence, TL poll. havent posted here in a while.. just think its funny that people have literally thousands of posts whining about this game but when any meaningful change is promoted they vote it down.
some people don't obsess over their skill level and rather want the game to be fun and not cause "ptsd," which is the same reason people hate cannon rushes and many things that are entirely possible to defend. half the time when i get cannon rushed in pvp i instaquit because microing probes to focus buildings isn't why i play starcraft. i don't care if it means i have no skill, because i don't play this game to make money. i have no clue why anyone acts like that matters if you don't make money
most people who aren't pro want interactions where there are multiple fluid stages of positioning and decision making so the game feels like it has a flow and a give-and-take, such as army engagements in the middle of the map. people dislike strategies that force a specific, practiced response that has to happen immediately within 2 seconds to prevent a massive mathematical disadvantage. pros practice for 12 hours a day so they can do those responses correctly, but for normal people it's nothing but an irritation that makes the game less fun
and yes, the game being playable for non pros is 8000 times more important than esportz balance. the game can be altered in ways that both address pro balance and don't shit on casuals, it's not mutually exclusive
TvP still mainly is based around the 2 base tank push from the terran as they feel behind in the eco game if they just stay at home and macro. Blizzard acknowledged this hence the widow mine change. Even though I rather saw the eco problem tackled in another way I dont think this is going to chance much.
As a revelation from the oracle now only costs 25 energy to combat creep spread. Besides shutting down cloaked banshee play a single oracle can pretty much shut down 2 widow mine drops at the same time only costing 50 energy, (after the 10 second cooldown ofc.)
And its not like tosses are going to use revelation for creep much. So forcing early detection for toss sounds to delay their 3rd sounds fun. But I feel with the revelation buff they will still feel fine especially with a few phoenixes that can pick up the mines straight away as well.
TvP still mainly is based around the 2 base tank push from the terran as they feel behind in the eco game if they just stay at home and macro. Blizzard acknowledged this hence the widow mine change. Even though I rather saw the eco problem tackled in another way I dont think this is going to chance much.
As a revelation from the oracle now only costs 25 energy to combat creep spread. But I think this is going to matter in TvP much more besides shutting down cloaked banshee more easily now a single oracle can also pretty much shut down 2 widow mine drops in short succession as 2 revelations only cost 50 energy, (after the 10 second cooldown ofc.)
And its not like tosses are going to use revelation for creep much. So forcing early detection for toss sounds to delay their 3rd sounds fun. But I feel with the revelation buff they will still feel fine especially with a few phoenixes that can pick up the mines straight away as well. So eh, will this really make toss get their 3rd later, or am I missing something. Ofc not every toss goes for stargate, a oracle followed by loads of phoenixes was already a popular strat which now could become the norm instead of blink stalker play.
TvP still mainly is based around the 2 base tank push from the terran as they feel behind in the eco game and at the start feel they need to deal damage (delaying or destroying the 3rd). Blizzard acknowledged this hence the widow mine change. Even though I rather saw the eco problem tackled in another way I dont think this is going to chance much.
As they changed the revelation from the oracle now only costing 25 energy to combat creep spread. But I think this is going to matter in TvP much more besides shutting down cloaked banshee more easily now a single oracle can also pretty much take care of two widow mine drops in short succession as 2 revelation will cost the same as a single revelation does now.
And its not like tosses are going to use revelation for creep much. So forcing early detection for toss sounds interesting as it delays their 3rd. But I feel with the revelation buff they will still feel fine especially with a few phoenixes that can pick up the mines straight away.
So eh, will this really make toss get their 3rd later, or am I missing something. Ofc not every toss goes for stargate, but stargate play with a single oracle followed by loads of phoenixes is already a popular strat which now could become the norm.
On May 01 2020 03:12 ilax30 wrote: TvP still mainly is based around the 2 base tank push from the terran as they feel behind in the eco game and at the start feel they need to deal damage (delaying or destroying the 3rd). Blizzard acknowledged this hence the widow mine change. Even though I rather saw the eco problem tackled in another way I dont think this is going to chance much.
As they changed the revelation from the oracle now only costing 25 energy to combat creep spread. But I think this is going to matter in TvP much more besides shutting down cloaked banshee more easily now a single oracle can also pretty much take care of two widow mine drops in short succession as 2 revelation will cost the same as a single revelation does now.
So forcing early detection for toss sounds interesting as it delays their 3rd. But I feel with the revelation buff they will still feel fine especially with a few phoenixes that can pick up the mines straight away.
So eh, will this really make toss get their 3rd later, or am I missing something. Ofc not every toss goes for stargate, but stargate play with a single oracle followed by loads of phoenixes is already a popular strat which now could become the norm.
TvP still mainly is based around the 2 base tank push from the terran as they feel behind in the eco game and at the start feel they need to deal damage (delaying or destroying the 3rd). Blizzard acknowledged this hence the widow mine change. Even though I rather saw the eco problem tackled in another way I dont think this is going to chance much.
As they changed the revelation from the oracle now only costing 25 energy to combat creep spread. But I think this is going to matter in TvP much more besides shutting down cloaked banshee more easily now a single oracle can also pretty much take care of two widow mine drops in short succession as 2 revelation will cost the same as a single revelation does now.
So forcing early detection for toss sounds interesting as it delays their 3rd. But I feel with the revelation buff they will still feel fine especially with a few phoenixes that can pick up the mines straight away.
So eh, will this really make toss get their 3rd later, or am I missing something. Ofc not every toss goes for stargate, but stargate play with a single oracle followed by loads of phoenixes is already a popular strat which now could become the norm.
A lot of good changes and updates but still things that need to be fixed. I feel like the developers don't play this game whatsoever to really know what needs to be changed. They somewhat nerfed zerg with queens and banes and creep. They helped toss to not get all-in'd all the time too. They need to fix the BC buff though. Still work needs to be done.
On May 01 2020 03:39 ActioN1 wrote: A lot of good changes and updates but still things that need to be fixed. I feel like the developers don't play this game whatsoever to really know what needs to be changed. They somewhat nerfed zerg with queens and banes and creep. They helped toss to not get all-in'd all the time too. They need to fix the BC buff though. Still work needs to be done.
With the decreased queen range, they can balance the BC by making it's shooting while moving feature part of the yamato upgrade. That way BCs are still good, can still kite, but require more care then just right-click moving to kill stuff.
On April 30 2020 23:30 Zrana1 wrote: I don't like that a lot of the balance changes are so related to destroying mineral lines. (widow mine and queen range changes)
It should be a dramatic moment, when one player is really playing better than the other or the other one totally drops the ball. Actual army vs army fights are way more interesting for both viewers and players.
If a matchup is broken in the lategame, the response should not be "well let's make it so that their economy is crippled in the early game"
Instead why not buff the carrier? We only see it PvZ anyway i think, or maybe vs Terran mech (rare). What about an ability which instantly builds or rebuilds and launches all interceptors, but costs a bunch of minerals more than the usual building? Some interesting economic ramifications there as well.
??? i play protoss and i don't see any reason to buff the carrier... carriers are already strong, and i don't see any reason they need to be more common in pvp or against bio. the proposed creep, queen and feedback changes all theoretically affect lategame PvZ where carriers are meant to shine (feedback helps in lategame and queen/creep should help protoss to control the map and the zerg economy)
for non pro players on mid level ladder carriers can already be used with moderate success in both PvP and PvT. why do we need that at pro level? do we want more mass air turtle games?
however i agree about mines and that it's stupid to balance the game around spontaneous mineral line destruction
Ah perhaps you're right.. I was just thinking how to buff protoss late game without it becoming too silly, but turtle air is not a fun game either...
On May 01 2020 01:10 Vision_ wrote: I don t play anymore but BC feels game breaker as every teleportation function in this kind of game.
The simple solution is to "pre-cast" an illusion of BC when the ability is launched. Then the teleportation is cancelled if the illusion have received one damage or more during X seconds. It s uniform cause Ghosts has already this kind of function,
I propose these changes but i m not sure to know the issue ?
Is it because BCs spawns directly upon your Zerg creep (near bases i mean) ?
On May 01 2020 01:10 Vision_ wrote: I don t play anymore but BC feels game breaker as every teleportation function in this kind of game.
The simple solution is to "pre-cast" an illusion of BC when the ability is launched. Then the teleportation is cancelled if the illusion have received one damage or more during X seconds. It s uniform cause Ghosts has already this kind of function,
I propose these changes but i m not sure to know the issue ?
Is it because BCs spawns directly upon your Zerg creep (near bases i mean) ?
Is this the beginning of an answer?
Uniformity is an answer, don t you think so ? If you haven t ever made a strategic game you couldn t understand that
Imagine if Terran wasn't forced to do damage before 3base in both TvP and TvZ to not fall behind? Afaik, even going max greed with Terran can be punished by even more greed by P and Z, on top of being super vulnerable to early aggression.
I don't like buffing widow mines either, the unit is too hit-or-miss and frustrated to play against for my taste.
Zerg nerfs seem nice, they should open up for some fairer maps.
This GSL should tell us a lot about top level balance (maybe except pvp) as all 3 races are still very well represented.
EPT
