On August 09 2019 04:10 MarianoSC2 wrote: Serral should be barely top 5 this time imo. His play against the real opposition (and Reynor) has quite diminished his unbreakable status. Yes he won HSC (barely), but then lost to Reynor, Stats and was very lucky not to get swept by Time 3:0.
My ranking would be: 1. Dark; 2. Stats; 3. Trap; 4. Classic; 5. Serral; 6. Solar; 7. Maru etc.
Reynor truly has no place in the top 10. He only got the mention because he beat Serral. His ZvT and ZvP are good for WCS standards, but very sub-par for GSL standard.
What real opposition is this? In the relatively recent past he’s taken out soO and TY at HSC, he convincingly beat Inno in brackets at ASUS ROG.
Stats and Serral probably have the most similar recent results of anyone in this list, a title apiece in tournaments and a top 4 and top 6 respectively where they both played, runner up and Ro16 in the most recent action in their circuit tournament.
Stats probably shades it due to triumphing whenever they’ve met in tournaments recently, I don’t think there’s much of gap otherwise.
Granted, I value Serral very high because he does not seem to have slump periods like other pros. But when the other top pros are in form (Inno and soO at the start of the year, Stats now), they seem to beat him in those periods.
I would be very intrested how Serral would perform if he had 1 year in GSL. If he would make RO8 consistently, or seem to struggle at times as well against better opposition.
Yea, and when Serral is in form, he just never loses "Almost losing" is just like "almost winning", it doesn't really count.
Hard to say when he's only been "in form" for two tournaments in his whole career.
On another note guys. What was the tourney everyone in Korea chose to play their song. Was that proleague? I remember I instantly became a Dark hardcore fanboy when he chose Radioactive by Imagine dragons 😎
On August 09 2019 04:10 MarianoSC2 wrote: Serral should be barely top 5 this time imo. His play against the real opposition (and Reynor) has quite diminished his unbreakable status. Yes he won HSC (barely), but then lost to Reynor, Stats and was very lucky not to get swept by Time 3:0.
My ranking would be: 1. Dark; 2. Stats; 3. Trap; 4. Classic; 5. Serral; 6. Solar; 7. Maru etc.
Reynor truly has no place in the top 10. He only got the mention because he beat Serral. His ZvT and ZvP are good for WCS standards, but very sub-par for GSL standard.
What real opposition is this? In the relatively recent past he’s taken out soO and TY at HSC, he convincingly beat Inno in brackets at ASUS ROG.
Stats and Serral probably have the most similar recent results of anyone in this list, a title apiece in tournaments and a top 4 and top 6 respectively where they both played, runner up and Ro16 in the most recent action in their circuit tournament.
Stats probably shades it due to triumphing whenever they’ve met in tournaments recently, I don’t think there’s much of gap otherwise.
Granted, I value Serral very high because he does not seem to have slump periods like other pros. But when the other top pros are in form (Inno and soO at the start of the year, Stats now), they seem to beat him in those periods.
I would be very intrested how Serral would perform if he had 1 year in GSL. If he would make RO8 consistently, or seem to struggle at times as well against better opposition.
Yea, and when Serral is in form, he just never loses "Almost losing" is just like "almost winning", it doesn't really count.
Hard to say when he's only been "in form" for two tournaments in his whole career.
At least three if you don't count WCS, you cannot ignore HSC XVIII, rightfully a Premier tournament now . It's not worse than saying "when the other top pros are in form they seem to beat him": just no.
On August 09 2019 00:17 stilt wrote: For once, I feel like you overestimated serral xD I mean, top 2 could be fine but stats played so amazingly to beat him that I think he should be above him.
Previous power rankings are taken into consideration.
I've always said that most PR disputes boil down to the exact amount of past credit people feel like a player deserves
Players who have won many championships in the past usually have the potential to keep doing it, so it makes sense. The idea of a PR should be an indication of who's most likely to win a championship if one was played this month.
To prove my own point, I disagree
While I think some people might prefer a version of the PR where Maru and Serral were top two for an entire year, I like the inclusion of just enough 'what have you done for me lately?' to keep things moving.
Well then, Stats is top 2 for sure and Solar is a bit up
On August 09 2019 04:10 MarianoSC2 wrote: Serral should be barely top 5 this time imo. His play against the real opposition (and Reynor) has quite diminished his unbreakable status. Yes he won HSC (barely), but then lost to Reynor, Stats and was very lucky not to get swept by Time 3:0.
My ranking would be: 1. Dark; 2. Stats; 3. Trap; 4. Classic; 5. Serral; 6. Solar; 7. Maru etc.
Reynor truly has no place in the top 10. He only got the mention because he beat Serral. His ZvT and ZvP are good for WCS standards, but very sub-par for GSL standard.
What real opposition is this? In the relatively recent past he’s taken out soO and TY at HSC, he convincingly beat Inno in brackets at ASUS ROG.
Stats and Serral probably have the most similar recent results of anyone in this list, a title apiece in tournaments and a top 4 and top 6 respectively where they both played, runner up and Ro16 in the most recent action in their circuit tournament.
Stats probably shades it due to triumphing whenever they’ve met in tournaments recently, I don’t think there’s much of gap otherwise.
Granted, I value Serral very high because he does not seem to have slump periods like other pros. But when the other top pros are in form (Inno and soO at the start of the year, Stats now), they seem to beat him in those periods.
I would be very intrested how Serral would perform if he had 1 year in GSL. If he would make RO8 consistently, or seem to struggle at times as well against better opposition.
Yea, and when Serral is in form, he just never loses "Almost losing" is just like "almost winning", it doesn't really count.
Same with Maru, Inno, Stats, Dark, Rogue. They've all won 100% of the tournaments where they were in form. When they lost it was because they weren't playing at their best.
On August 09 2019 00:17 stilt wrote: For once, I feel like you overestimated serral xD I mean, top 2 could be fine but stats played so amazingly to beat him that I think he should be above him.
Previous power rankings are taken into consideration.
I've always said that most PR disputes boil down to the exact amount of past credit people feel like a player deserves
Players who have won many championships in the past usually have the potential to keep doing it, so it makes sense. The idea of a PR should be an indication of who's most likely to win a championship if one was played this month.
To prove my own point, I disagree
While I think some people might prefer a version of the PR where Maru and Serral were top two for an entire year, I like the inclusion of just enough 'what have you done for me lately?' to keep things moving.
Well then, Stats is top 2 for sure and Solar is a bit up
He said "just enough", not "almost entirely".
yes, thats why I said what I said
Not really, Stats and Solar didn't do much before this month to justify such a high placement; Stats #2 and Solar higher on the list is fine it you just take into consideration the latest period.
On August 09 2019 04:10 MarianoSC2 wrote: Serral should be barely top 5 this time imo. His play against the real opposition (and Reynor) has quite diminished his unbreakable status. Yes he won HSC (barely), but then lost to Reynor, Stats and was very lucky not to get swept by Time 3:0.
My ranking would be: 1. Dark; 2. Stats; 3. Trap; 4. Classic; 5. Serral; 6. Solar; 7. Maru etc.
Reynor truly has no place in the top 10. He only got the mention because he beat Serral. His ZvT and ZvP are good for WCS standards, but very sub-par for GSL standard.
What real opposition is this? In the relatively recent past he’s taken out soO and TY at HSC, he convincingly beat Inno in brackets at ASUS ROG.
Stats and Serral probably have the most similar recent results of anyone in this list, a title apiece in tournaments and a top 4 and top 6 respectively where they both played, runner up and Ro16 in the most recent action in their circuit tournament.
Stats probably shades it due to triumphing whenever they’ve met in tournaments recently, I don’t think there’s much of gap otherwise.
Granted, I value Serral very high because he does not seem to have slump periods like other pros. But when the other top pros are in form (Inno and soO at the start of the year, Stats now), they seem to beat him in those periods.
I would be very intrested how Serral would perform if he had 1 year in GSL. If he would make RO8 consistently, or seem to struggle at times as well against better opposition.
Yea, and when Serral is in form, he just never loses "Almost losing" is just like "almost winning", it doesn't really count.
Same with Maru, Inno, Stats, Dark, Rogue. They've all won 100% of the tournaments where they were in form. When they lost it was because they weren't playing at their best.
Their in-shape period must really be very erratic, of brief duration and oddly specific, then! Thanks for the enlightening insight.
The statement I am responding to is "when the other pros are in form, they tend to beat Serral"...come on!
On August 09 2019 04:10 MarianoSC2 wrote: Serral should be barely top 5 this time imo. His play against the real opposition (and Reynor) has quite diminished his unbreakable status. Yes he won HSC (barely), but then lost to Reynor, Stats and was very lucky not to get swept by Time 3:0.
My ranking would be: 1. Dark; 2. Stats; 3. Trap; 4. Classic; 5. Serral; 6. Solar; 7. Maru etc.
Reynor truly has no place in the top 10. He only got the mention because he beat Serral. His ZvT and ZvP are good for WCS standards, but very sub-par for GSL standard.
What real opposition is this? In the relatively recent past he’s taken out soO and TY at HSC, he convincingly beat Inno in brackets at ASUS ROG.
Stats and Serral probably have the most similar recent results of anyone in this list, a title apiece in tournaments and a top 4 and top 6 respectively where they both played, runner up and Ro16 in the most recent action in their circuit tournament.
Stats probably shades it due to triumphing whenever they’ve met in tournaments recently, I don’t think there’s much of gap otherwise.
Granted, I value Serral very high because he does not seem to have slump periods like other pros. But when the other top pros are in form (Inno and soO at the start of the year, Stats now), they seem to beat him in those periods.
I would be very intrested how Serral would perform if he had 1 year in GSL. If he would make RO8 consistently, or seem to struggle at times as well against better opposition.
Yea, and when Serral is in form, he just never loses "Almost losing" is just like "almost winning", it doesn't really count.
Same with Maru, Inno, Stats, Dark, Rogue. They've all won 100% of the tournaments where they were in form. When they lost it was because they weren't playing at their best.
Their in-shape period must really be very erratic, of brief duration and oddly specific, then! Thanks for the enlightening insight.
The statement I am responding to is "when the other pros are in form, they tend to beat Serral"...come on!
Almost like when Serral was in form he beat everyone or something.
Like whatever, people have their preferences, not sure why some actually seem to long for Korean supremacy and taper their positions accordingly.
Serral is unbelievably consistent, no foreign player has ever come close to how he stomps the foreign scene ever. Even early Wings Pros who played in Korea didn’t dominate the foreign scene like Serral does now (despite some losses to Reynor)
Top Korean pros say he’s the best Zerg in the world, but like whatever what would they know?
On August 08 2019 23:47 Shathe wrote: Zest with the recent good runs is defineatly better than Hero. Classic being 3rd is questionable, Maru at 6 seems low
Honestly, I'm like the biggest Maru fan, but Maru at 6 to me seems about right. At first I even thought it was a bit too generous. What's he done lately? Looked shaky in GSL Ro32 and trashed Reynor. Maybe these two things kinda sorta cancel each other out, but his performance in GSL has left me with an overall sense of shakiness in his play still.
He's weak at GSL group stages and I feel like we still don't know 100% what kind of form he's in ATM. He's about to hit the group of death, so we'll have a real test soon. But is he favored even in GSL vs the world? There's a very real possibility he'll bomb out twice in a row in his next appearances.
On August 08 2019 21:29 Xain0n wrote: This power ranking is for sure consistent, I also think Reynor could have been #10.
If Serral wins GSL vs The World he should eventually be #1.
He won GSL vs The World and didn't get #1 here.
even after beating Blizzcon he didn't. Lol.
On August 09 2019 07:59 UtherTruthBringer wrote: How the hell can you not put stats as number one?
They change the goal posts every PR. Sometimes someone new wins a tournament and shoots to rank 1-2, sometimes someone remains high after poor results. I doubt the PR team actually does a mathematical, weighted scoring system to determine a ranking and instead goes off biased opinions on who they feel is good. I would love to be surprised though!
On August 08 2019 22:17 Argonauta wrote: imho Stats deserves the second spot. He at least has won something lately
On the other hand, he lost to soO at HSC in a disappointing fashion and didn't look super crisp in GSL.
IMHO it comes down to daily form in the top 6 (or even 8) and you can justify almost any placement there.
Dark and Classic are the only ones who didn't have a really dissappointing performance this year so they should be #1 and #2 imo. After that I agree.
Disagree with downgrading Classic just because he didn't play in that much. Last year they kept Serral at #5-#6 for months despite him playing no relevant competition.
"No relevant competition" is how you see it, Serral was playing games unlike Classic did last month.
Pretty sure Classic played and advanced from his Code S group.
With a loss to Creator and a map loss to Keen... that really doesnt cry for #2
EDIT: I would even go so far an put Stats #3 and Classic #4
Meanwhile Serral almost lost to Time
Context is important dear friend. And what does almost lost even mean? Cause I'm pretty sure he won
Context part: Classic only played very few games and looked super shaky in those. Serral played a whole lot of more games, won stuff, placed top 4 in some other stuff and really lost what? a final and a semi final.
Your post is like the whole Meomaika drama again: Maru won 4 GSL but lost to Meomaika,so he must be really bad
EDIT: The PR team will NEVER satisfy all of us. It is impossible. Cut them some slack I'm just glad they continue, cause PR's are always fun discussions
On August 09 2019 07:59 UtherTruthBringer wrote: How the hell can you not put stats as number one?
Out of the top players on this list he beat just Serral. While Dark still has his Code S title and no hiccups. Let's not forget that he didn't win the ROG with the cleanest way possible either. So, uh, yeah.
Based only on recent form Serral over Solar is outrageous. However based on track record it’s totally reasonable. I do think stats should be #2 or no worse than #3 though. He beat a lot of very good players and did it in dominant fashion. His control was just at a higher level.
On August 09 2019 04:10 MarianoSC2 wrote: Serral should be barely top 5 this time imo. His play against the real opposition (and Reynor) has quite diminished his unbreakable status. Yes he won HSC (barely), but then lost to Reynor, Stats and was very lucky not to get swept by Time 3:0.
My ranking would be: 1. Dark; 2. Stats; 3. Trap; 4. Classic; 5. Serral; 6. Solar; 7. Maru etc.
Reynor truly has no place in the top 10. He only got the mention because he beat Serral. His ZvT and ZvP are good for WCS standards, but very sub-par for GSL standard.
What real opposition is this? In the relatively recent past he’s taken out soO and TY at HSC, he convincingly beat Inno in brackets at ASUS ROG.
Stats and Serral probably have the most similar recent results of anyone in this list, a title apiece in tournaments and a top 4 and top 6 respectively where they both played, runner up and Ro16 in the most recent action in their circuit tournament.
Stats probably shades it due to triumphing whenever they’ve met in tournaments recently, I don’t think there’s much of gap otherwise.
Granted, I value Serral very high because he does not seem to have slump periods like other pros. But when the other top pros are in form (Inno and soO at the start of the year, Stats now), they seem to beat him in those periods.
I would be very intrested how Serral would perform if he had 1 year in GSL. If he would make RO8 consistently, or seem to struggle at times as well against better opposition.
Yea, and when Serral is in form, he just never loses "Almost losing" is just like "almost winning", it doesn't really count.
Same with Maru, Inno, Stats, Dark, Rogue. They've all won 100% of the tournaments where they were in form. When they lost it was because they weren't playing at their best.
Hey Dark has lost tournaments while being in his best form at the time
On August 08 2019 21:29 Xain0n wrote: This power ranking is for sure consistent, I also think Reynor could have been #10.
If Serral wins GSL vs The World he should eventually be #1.
He won GSL vs The World and didn't get #1 here.
even after beating Blizzcon he didn't. Lol.
The one and only reason Serral wasn't at the #1 spot on a power rank after BlizzCon was because we didn't do a power rank until March 2019. You know, after IEM Katowice, WESG and WCS Winter.
On August 09 2019 07:59 UtherTruthBringer wrote: How the hell can you not put stats as number one?
They change the goal posts every PR. Sometimes someone new wins a tournament and shoots to rank 1-2, sometimes someone remains high after poor results. I doubt the PR team actually does a mathematical, weighted scoring system to determine a ranking and instead goes off biased opinions on who they feel is good. I would love to be surprised though!
The rank is an aggregate, average ranking based on the lists submitted by the individual writers.
On August 12 2019 04:16 Fango wrote: Hey Dark has lost tournaments while being in his best form at the time
On August 08 2019 21:29 Xain0n wrote: This power ranking is for sure consistent, I also think Reynor could have been #10.
If Serral wins GSL vs The World he should eventually be #1.
He won GSL vs The World and didn't get #1 here.
even after beating Blizzcon he didn't. Lol.
The one and only reason Serral wasn't at the #1 spot on a power rank after BlizzCon was because we didn't do a power rank until March 2019. You know, after IEM Katowice, WESG and WCS Winter.
On August 09 2019 07:59 UtherTruthBringer wrote: How the hell can you not put stats as number one?
They change the goal posts every PR. Sometimes someone new wins a tournament and shoots to rank 1-2, sometimes someone remains high after poor results. I doubt the PR team actually does a mathematical, weighted scoring system to determine a ranking and instead goes off biased opinions on who they feel is good. I would love to be surprised though!
The rank is an aggregate, average ranking based on the lists submitted by the individual writers.
On August 12 2019 04:16 Fango wrote: Hey Dark has lost tournaments while being in his best form at the time
Yeah that's a bit harsh ;____;
Well, technically you released a Power Ranking right before HSC XVIII(ehm...). And the first PR in 2019 was published immediately after Katowice if I remember correctly, before WESG and WCS Winter finals.
On August 08 2019 21:29 Xain0n wrote: This power ranking is for sure consistent, I also think Reynor could have been #10.
If Serral wins GSL vs The World he should eventually be #1.
He won GSL vs The World and didn't get #1 here.
even after beating Blizzcon he didn't. Lol.
The one and only reason Serral wasn't at the #1 spot on a power rank after BlizzCon was because we didn't do a power rank until March 2019. You know, after IEM Katowice, WESG and WCS Winter.
On August 09 2019 11:36 youngjiddle wrote:
On August 09 2019 07:59 UtherTruthBringer wrote: How the hell can you not put stats as number one?
They change the goal posts every PR. Sometimes someone new wins a tournament and shoots to rank 1-2, sometimes someone remains high after poor results. I doubt the PR team actually does a mathematical, weighted scoring system to determine a ranking and instead goes off biased opinions on who they feel is good. I would love to be surprised though!
The rank is an aggregate, average ranking based on the lists submitted by the individual writers.
On August 12 2019 04:16 Fango wrote: Hey Dark has lost tournaments while being in his best form at the time
Yeah that's a bit harsh ;____;
Well, technically you released a Power Ranking right before HSC XVIII(ehm...). And the first PR in 2019 was published immediately after Katowice if I remember correctly, before WESG and WCS Winter finals.
You're right, Katowice was before WESG and Winter, got my events mixed up!
On August 08 2019 21:29 Xain0n wrote: This power ranking is for sure consistent, I also think Reynor could have been #10.
If Serral wins GSL vs The World he should eventually be #1.
He won GSL vs The World and didn't get #1 here.
even after beating Blizzcon he didn't. Lol.
The one and only reason Serral wasn't at the #1 spot on a power rank after BlizzCon was because we didn't do a power rank until March 2019. You know, after IEM Katowice, WESG and WCS Winter.
On August 09 2019 11:36 youngjiddle wrote:
On August 09 2019 07:59 UtherTruthBringer wrote: How the hell can you not put stats as number one?
They change the goal posts every PR. Sometimes someone new wins a tournament and shoots to rank 1-2, sometimes someone remains high after poor results. I doubt the PR team actually does a mathematical, weighted scoring system to determine a ranking and instead goes off biased opinions on who they feel is good. I would love to be surprised though!
The rank is an aggregate, average ranking based on the lists submitted by the individual writers.
On August 12 2019 04:16 Fango wrote: Hey Dark has lost tournaments while being in his best form at the time
Yeah that's a bit harsh ;____;
Well, technically you released a Power Ranking right before HSC XVIII(ehm...). And the first PR in 2019 was published immediately after Katowice if I remember correctly, before WESG and WCS Winter finals.
Should have done the full Rogue and won Katowice then
On August 09 2019 00:17 stilt wrote: For once, I feel like you overestimated serral xD I mean, top 2 could be fine but stats played so amazingly to beat him that I think he should be above him.
Previous power rankings are taken into consideration.
I've always said that most PR disputes boil down to the exact amount of past credit people feel like a player deserves
Players who have won many championships in the past usually have the potential to keep doing it, so it makes sense. The idea of a PR should be an indication of who's most likely to win a championship if one was played this month.
To prove my own point, I disagree
While I think some people might prefer a version of the PR where Maru and Serral were top two for an entire year, I like the inclusion of just enough 'what have you done for me lately?' to keep things moving.
Well then, Stats is top 2 for sure and Solar is a bit up
He said "just enough", not "almost entirely".
yes, thats why I said what I said
Not really, Stats and Solar didn't do much before this month to justify such a high placement; Stats #2 and Solar higher on the list is fine it you just take into consideration the latest period.
Well Stats won Asus Rog and Solar got placed second and both won their respective GSL groups. Giving the fact there was no other significative competition in this time spam, despite that invitational that Maru won, i think is enough to push them higher and mix the Power ranking a bit more.
EPT
