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SC2 Power Rank: July 2019

Forum Index > SC2 General
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SC2 Power Rank: July 2019

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
June 27th, 2019 04:56 GMT

Power Rank: July 2019

by TeamLiquid.net writers

Another Code S season is over, which means it's time for an early bird edition of the Power Rank. That also means the results of HomeStory Cup 19 won't be taken into account until the August version, but we're not so worried. It's not like something crazy could happen to make this ranking look instantly silly, like Serral finishing outside the top four or Solar getting eliminated in the group stage. Right? RIGHT? Anyway, before we continue, here's the short summation of our criteria:

  • The Power Rank is an aggregate, average ranking of separate lists submitted by individual members of the TeamLiquid.net writing staff.
  • Criteria considered include, but are not limited to: Tournament placements, overall record, quality of opponents faced, and quality of play.
  • Recent results are weighted more heavily, but players receive benefit of the doubt for consistent performance over time.


Close, But No Cigar

(Wiki)soO, (Wiki)GuMiho: After coasting on strong performances from prior tournaments, soO and GuMiho were finally pushed out of the rankings by players who had a chance to shine in more recent events. Still, for players of their quality, a quick re-entry into the top ten could be on the cards if they can dominate in the Code S Ro32.

#10

[image loading]
Hurricane
New!
Hurricane's inclusion in the Power Rank comes largely off the back of a surprising playoff run in GSL Code S that was only ended by eventual champion Dark in the semis.

Hurricane had a very slim list of individual tournament accomplishments in the past, and was more known as a rotation player in the GSTL and Proleague (bring either one back, pretty please). 2019 seemed to be par for the course: he suffered a not-at-all-unexpected Ro32 knockout in the first Code S of the year, and then fell victim to GuMiho's TvP antics in the RO76 of IEM Katowice.

However, Hurricane ended up playing a vital role in the spring 2019 Protoss renaissance, finishing in the quarterfinals of the Super Tournament. Pair it up with the aforementioned semifinal finish in Code S, and one has to admit that at least results wise, Hurricane is a top ten player in Korea. In fact, he's actually ninth in the WCS Korea point standings. If he can sustain this level of play—and that's a big IF—he may be a dark-horse candidate to make it to the Global Finals.


#9

[image loading]
Solar
New!
Solar breaks back into the power rank thanks to his MVP-level performance in the SCBoy China Team Championship. While the CTC wasn't widely watched by the Western community, it was a hugely ambitious venture that sought to revive the prestigious team competitions of old. Solar was an important player for champions Triumphant Song Gaming throughout the season, but he was particularly impressive in the semifinal round where he scored a super-sized all-kill (four BO3 victories) against team Player 1.

Perhaps CTC wil be the confidence-booster Solar needs to start performing well in individual events as well. Though he was a borderline BlizzCon candidate last season, we can't help but notice he's now suffered three Code S Ro32 eliminations in a row. Now that he's won qualification to Code S once more, we're eager to see if he can make another late run at the WCS Global Finals.


#8

[image loading]
herO
+1
We weren't quite sure what to make of herO's underdog run to the IEM Katowice semifinals back in March, but his continued delivery of solid tournament results has made his 2019 comeback feel quite real. In June, herO finished in the top eight of Code S Season 2 (even if he was crushed 3-0 by Dark in the playoffs), and helped lead Triumphant Song Gaming to the title at the China Team Championship live playoffs. While herO has yet to win a high-stakes match against a so-called 'top tier' opponent, he seems rather comfortable taking on players who are just one rung below that.

Even Protoss-haters have to give herO credit for being an extremely resourceful player. For herO, there's no cheese that's too foul to employ, no base trade that's too risky to initiate, and no situation that's so bad that he won't give a desperation Dark Shrine a try.


#7

[image loading]
Stats
-1
While herO has been more successful than Stats during this blossoming spring of Protoss (where Zergs won both WCS Circuit and Code S, mind you), we're still giving Stats the benefit of the doubt and placing him one rank above herO at #7. After all, if the arguably most consistent player of LotV doesn't deserve our trust, then who does?

We're aware that there's a decent case against Stats. He hasn't put up any notable results since INnoVation eliminated him from the Code S RO16. He played in a couple of online tournaments and re-qualified for Code S—business as usual. Stats will return to more meaningful competition in HomeStory Cup XIX and the Code S Ro32, where we'll find out if we were correct to extend so much past-credit to the BlizzCon and IEM Katowice runner-up.


#6

[image loading]
Maru
-2
Maru also falls a bit further down the Power Rank, but it's not necessarily all his fault. He simply didn’t play a lot of matches after his shocking Ro32 elimination from the last season of Code S, giving other players around him the opportunity to climb. While few doubt that Maru is still one of the best players in the world, it's hard to lock him into the top five when other players have been winning in meaningful competitions. The least Maru could have done was pad his stats in online play, but he wasn't even able to do that—his online win-rate is barely above 50%+ over the last couple of months.

After being absent from offline matches since losing in the Code S Group stage, Maru returned at the Code S Season 3 preliminaries where he qualified easily after beating Guilty, RagnaroK, and Scarlett (who gave him his only map loss). It wasn't an impressive run by any means—those don’t really exist anymore nowadays, as the qualifiers are so thinly manned. But at least Maru didn't have his reputation tarnished like Bunny who failed to qualify at all, or GuMiho who lost two series to Super before advancing in the last-chance qualifier.

Maru might have slipped a few ranks for now, but anyone counting him out for next season of Code S, or indeed any tournament he enters, is a fool. This man is still championship caliber.


#5

[image loading]
INnoVation
No Change
For a player outside of the Top 10 of the Power Rank, INnoVation’s June might have been a pretty good month. But for someone in the upper half, it merely secured his hold on the #5 spot. The month began with a narrow 2-3 quarterfinal loss in the Code S quarterfinals at the hands of eventual runner-up Trap. Protoss players continued to vex INnoVation in online play, and his vulnerability in TvP also revealed itself in the Code S Season 3 qualifier where he lost to herO before qualifying through the lower bracket against SpeCial.

However, INnoVation eventually seized his opportunity to shine. Lü Bu, as his Chinese fans call him, won his second Chinese tournament of the year, netting himself a cool 60,000 CNY (~$8500) at Gold Professional Championship Season 1 (defeating Scarlett 3-2 in the finals). Though INnoVation didn’t always face the toughest competition this month, he ultimately secured another championship in the tournament with the the next biggest individual stakes after Code S. Really, INnoVation looks quite good in both TvZ and TvT, with only TvP remaining as his Achilles-heel.


#4

[image loading]
Trap
+3
While Trap's peak-level play always hinted that he had the potential for greatness, his inconsistency suggested he would never realize it. His tournament success was always fleeting, flaring up spectacularly (e.g. defeating Dark to reach the IEM Katowice RO8) before burning out into a wisp of smoke (e.g. getting reverse-swept by Serral in the aforementioned RO8 match). But the past months have marked a distinct change, with Trap actually growing more and more consistent.

Even after Trap's impressive top four finish in Code S Season 1, past results told us it would not have been surprising in the slightest to see him eliminated in the Ro16 in the following season. Instead, Trap proved that he hadn't just gone supernova for one season—he had enough fuel for the long haul.

Not only did he return to the playoffs in Season 2, but he defeated far for accomplished stars in INnoVation and Classic to reach the finals. He even broke his reputation as a player who cracked under pressure, coming back to defeat Classic from 1-3 down in the semifinals. Unfortunately for Trap, he couldn't go all the way to the championship. His nerves seemed to catch up with him in the finals against Dark, even though he played a few masterful games. Still, a top four and runner-up placement in consecutive Code S seasons solidifies Trap's place as one of the best Protoss players in the world, and as a worthy team ace who single-handedly upheld Jin Air's reputation in Code S Season 2.


#3

[image loading]
Serral
No Change
After rising to #3 last month by winning WCS Spring, Serral retains his position by dutifully winning yet another European Challenger tournament (his fifth in a row). Serral has now won sixteen consecutive matches since losing to Reynor in the WCS Winter finals back in March, with two revenge matches against Reynor included among those victories (7-1 combined map score).

As is often the case with Serral's Circuit results, we don't know whether to gasp or yawn. Even if Serral insists that he only has a 50% chance of winning any given tournament, we can't help but see his domination as inevitable. Unless Serral gives up the Circuit crown at WCS Summer or suffers some kind of catastrophic failure at HSC 19, he'll be stuck in a holding pattern around the top five of the TL.net Power Rank until August's GSL vs. The World.


#2

[image loading]
Classic
-1
Once Maru was eliminated in the Ro32, a second career Code S championship looked to be well within Classic's grasp. After Classic cruised through the group stages and easily dispatched of soO in the quarterfinals, it seemed like his semifinal match against Trap would be a mere formality before his finals date with arch-rival Dark. And then, Classic made a couple of mistakes, failed to close out a 3-1 lead, and discovered that he was actually the supporting character in Trap's career-defining run. For the runner-up of Code S Season 1 and the champion of the Super Tournament, a one spot penalty seems appropriate after such a 'disappointing' top four finish.

Classic's Global Finals spot is now virtually assured, even if his ability to get travel permission is not. But even if standing on the BlizzCon stage is out of the picture, at least he still has one final chance to chase the Code S title in Season 3.


#1

[image loading]
Dark
+1
As we look back on 2019 from its halfway point, it's clear that the year has been most notable for its upheavals. Zergs with an axe to grind ended up playing a huge role in upending the established order. First it was soO who ended his runner-up streak at IEM Katowice. Then it was Reynor who avenged his WCS Montreal loss to Serral at WCS Winter. And most recently, it was Dark who finally earned the trophy to match his reputation, winning the first Code S championship of his career.

Some would say the writing was always on the wall, reserving a spot for Dark's inevitable championship plaque in the hallway of the AfreecaTV studio. But even as his SSL championship and numerous runner-up finishes pegged him as a title contender and top player, his continued lack of Code S success had grown quite conspicuous over the years.

But in Code S Season 2 of 2019, Dark lifted that burden from his shoulders. His group stage dominance over the likes of DRG, Cure, Patience and INnoVation wasn't surprising—but this time, he sustained that dominance all through the playoffs. Dark lasered in on the final with all his focus, deftly swatting herO out of the way 3-0 in the Ro8, speeding over Hurricane 4-1 in the semis, and finally asserting his superiority over Trap with a 4-2 win the grand finals. This isn't Dark's first time at #1 in our Power Rank, but this time it's particularly well-deserved.




Credits and acknowledgements

Ranking contributors: TeamLiquid.net writing staff
Writers: Destructicon, TheOneAboveU, Wax, Ziggy.
Editor: Wax
Photo Credit: hexhaven
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TL+ Member
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States870 Posts
June 27 2019 05:22 GMT
#2
#6 tells me I'm a fool =(. GSL was the one tournament where Maru succeeded out of the many he participated in, and then he got Ro32'd in the last one. I don't think he's champ caliber atm. Obviously he had an awe-inspiring run, but he never matched his GSL dominance in weekenders and who knows how he'll do in the upcoming GSL. Honestly, if the power rank measures "who is the most likely to win a BoX against anyone else at this very moment" I'd put him even lower or even give him an honorable mention since we have no idea what is current form is and the last we saw of him was a hard crash from champion to early exit.

Other than that, I like this PR and think Dark was an easy #1 pick. Guy has been playing amazing SC2 lately.
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
June 27 2019 05:51 GMT
#3
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
June 27 2019 06:12 GMT
#4
While herO's record might justify a place on this power rank, his play certainly doesn't. It's remarkable how hard he tries to throw games by attacking non-stop rather than ever transitioning even in position where he has large economic leads.
SameWishbone
Profile Joined June 2019
1 Post
June 27 2019 07:00 GMT
#5
For once top 3 is correct, though not sure about the order. Dark won the most recent tournament, but Classic still has much better record if we consider the last few. If you rank only based on 1 tournament, rank is not needed, you can just copy-paste the results.
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
June 27 2019 07:31 GMT
#6
Great power rank! For me there are a couple of foreigners I'd slot into 10 ahead of Hurricane who had one Ro8 in his life, or Solar who as you note had 3 ro32 losses in a row... But this is ok.
Neemi
Profile Joined August 2012
Netherlands656 Posts
June 27 2019 09:38 GMT
#7
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.


That, and it was won by someone who performed pretty well throughout both 2019 and LotV as a whole already, so it's comfortable to give Dark the nod. If Trap won it, there would likely be more debate between him, Dark and Classic.
Cute
dysenterymd
Profile Joined January 2019
1180 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-27 09:53:14
June 27 2019 09:52 GMT
#8
Dark #1 is justified going on recent results, even if everything broke his way during the Code S playoffs. I'm confident Classic and Serral will both 3-1 or 4-2 him if/when they meet, so I have a feeling the ordering in the top five will change at GSL vs the World.
Serral | Inno | sOs | soO | Has | Classic
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4902 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-27 09:55:17
June 27 2019 09:55 GMT
#9
hard to judge Maru, I would have put him even lower, because a no showing is worse than a bad showing.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Miralem Ibrahim
Profile Joined April 2019
40 Posts
June 27 2019 10:04 GMT
#10
I think Innovation deserve to be more highter like 4. He is very strong currently he lost only to one map but the rest of his performance are pretty impressive especially his match against Maru at GSL Ro32 and against Stats in the Olimoleague final month and GSL Ro16. And with that he won a another Premier tournament and became the second most titled player with Life only one premier trophy behind Taeja.

For the rest of the power rank I m pretty agree
Z3nith
Profile Joined October 2017
485 Posts
June 27 2019 10:19 GMT
#11
On June 27 2019 19:04 Miralem Ibrahim wrote:
I think Innovation deserve to be more highter like 4. He is very strong currently he lost only to one map but the rest of his performance are pretty impressive especially his match against Maru at GSL Ro32 and against Stats in the Olimoleague final month and GSL Ro16. And with that he won a another Premier tournament and became the second most titled player with Life only one premier trophy behind Taeja.

For the rest of the power rank I m pretty agree


Inno is fine where he is. There is no case for putting him above any of the top four considering their tournament runs so far.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19215 Posts
June 27 2019 11:54 GMT
#12
Great PR this month. It's nice when the players make it easy. I think Maru could be justified as 4th or 5th purely cause of the Flash argument. Flash wins ASL->Rank 1, Flash takes a break for two months -> Unranked, Flash returns to ASL-> Easily placed in top 5 somewhere. That's because we know Flash has established his credibility. The question is whether Maru's 4 GSLs in a row has created enough credibility lol.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2710 Posts
June 27 2019 12:27 GMT
#13
Same opinion as last month. Serral > Classic and Dark.
very illegal and very uncool
Koivusto
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Finland542 Posts
June 27 2019 13:21 GMT
#14
On June 27 2019 21:27 argonautdice wrote:
Same opinion as last month. Serral > Classic and Dark.

Agreed. Dark and Classic ahead since GSL is more appreciated than WCS. We'll see in July
#1 Blitzcrank #Forever platinum toss --> current diamond Terran <3
Jimmon
Profile Joined May 2011
United States112 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-27 19:33:17
June 27 2019 13:36 GMT
#15
Don't even worry about it, Stats came to win HSC.

Believe this.


Up date - 06/24/19 3:31 PM EST time - Stats is 6-0 ATM. <3
I love LOveRH
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
June 27 2019 14:30 GMT
#16
If we just look at results this is a reasonable power ranking.

But if Dark would play Serral right now my money would be on Serral.
yyltyler
Profile Joined February 2018
23 Posts
June 27 2019 14:37 GMT
#17
If maru plays serral my money is on maru. What’s the point of looking at head-to-head?
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-27 16:03:36
June 27 2019 16:00 GMT
#18
On June 27 2019 20:54 BisuDagger wrote:
Great PR this month. It's nice when the players make it easy. I think Maru could be justified as 4th or 5th purely cause of the Flash argument. Flash wins ASL->Rank 1, Flash takes a break for two months -> Unranked, Flash returns to ASL-> Easily placed in top 5 somewhere. That's because we know Flash has established his credibility. The question is whether Maru's 4 GSLs in a row has created enough credibility lol.

Personally I think he looked just as good in this ro32 as he did last season and the three before that. Only difference is he had decent opponents in the group this time.

On June 27 2019 18:55 Argonauta wrote:
hard to judge Maru, I would have put him even lower, because a no showing is worse than a bad showing.

TL PR have made it clear in the past that no showing = same rank, and you need a bad showing to lose rank. Players in the past like TY and Serral have gone months without playing any meaningful matches and maintained their spot.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Miralem Ibrahim
Profile Joined April 2019
40 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-27 18:17:49
June 27 2019 18:14 GMT
#19
On June 27 2019 19:19 Z3nith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 19:04 Miralem Ibrahim wrote:
I think Innovation deserve to be more highter like 4. He is very strong currently he lost only to one map but the rest of his performance are pretty impressive especially his match against Maru at GSL Ro32 and against Stats in the Olimoleague final month and GSL Ro16. And with that he won a another Premier tournament and became the second most titled player with Life only one premier trophy behind Taeja.

For the rest of the power rank I m pretty agree


Inno is fine where he is. There is no case for putting him above any of the top four considering their tournament runs so far.


I don't know. I don't know why but I feel like Inno is realy strong this year in term of pure skill but very unlucky in a lot of tournament I played recently. He beats so many top player Serral 2 times Maru 2 times Stats 3 times Gumiho ect....
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55476 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-27 18:28:04
June 27 2019 18:26 GMT
#20
On June 28 2019 01:00 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 18:55 Argonauta wrote:
hard to judge Maru, I would have put him even lower, because a no showing is worse than a bad showing.

TL PR have made it clear in the past that no showing = same rank, and you need a bad showing to lose rank. Players in the past like TY and Serral have gone months without playing any meaningful matches and maintained their spot.

TY has also dropped out of a PR entirely following a good month when he didn't move at all after a no-show month.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8960 Posts
June 27 2019 21:52 GMT
#21
I was fully expecting a surprise entry and see TaeJa as #1 since his reentry to GSL code S. But alas, I can settle for this.
necrosexy
Profile Joined March 2011
451 Posts
June 28 2019 01:43 GMT
#22
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...
Kalera
Profile Joined January 2018
United States338 Posts
June 28 2019 02:04 GMT
#23
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.
WeakOwl
Profile Joined December 2018
25 Posts
June 28 2019 03:36 GMT
#24
only thing wrong here is innovation and classic are mixed up.
necrosexy
Profile Joined March 2011
451 Posts
June 28 2019 03:42 GMT
#25
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 28 2019 04:10 GMT
#26
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.


Yeah his ZvZ is better than Dark's but his ZvT is usually weaker. For ZvP, it's hard to say who is stronger (if I had to, I'd give it to Dark because he was crushing Protoss in GSL and outplayed Trap in the macro games). What gives Dark the edge in rankings is his GSL win.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 28 2019 08:37 GMT
#27
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Because Dark just won in the hardest competition while Serral is winning in WCS? From top20 players are what, 16 at GSL? Competition you run against matters.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 28 2019 09:54 GMT
#28
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

He's better in the h2h vs Dark, and I'd give him at least ZvZ. But no way is his ZvT better.

ZvP could go either way, but it's hard to argue Serral is decisively better when Dark just won GSL almost entirely off that matchup and Serral hasn't beaten a single high profile toss all year.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15883 Posts
June 28 2019 10:00 GMT
#29
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
burnturn
Profile Joined December 2015
United States59 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-28 17:48:02
June 28 2019 17:47 GMT
#30
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?

This! Yeah if went by that then Neeb should have always been ahead of Serral and sOs over Maru.
Edit: Although sOs isnt decisively better he still beat him twice by a score of 3-1.

sOs is best
burnturn
Profile Joined December 2015
United States59 Posts
June 28 2019 18:00 GMT
#31
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


I don't know if people have seen this but here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vawjcq2f7n4qh4/Meme_SerralEU.mp4?dl=0
sOs is best
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 28 2019 18:04 GMT
#32
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


Head to head shouldn't generally be a criteria, but Serral is indeed decisively ahead of Dark(games Serral played in 2015 aren't that relevant) while he is only slightly behind Neeb(Serral's famous 0-3 online defeat before BlizzCon heavily contributes since they are 11-14 in maps overall).
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15883 Posts
June 28 2019 18:08 GMT
#33
On June 29 2019 03:04 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


Head to head shouldn't generally be a criteria, but Serral is indeed decisively ahead of Dark(games Serral played in 2015 aren't that relevant) while he is only slightly behind Neeb(Serral's famous 0-3 online defeat before BlizzCon heavily contributes since they are 11-14 in maps overall).

TIL 9-5 is decisively ahead while 11-14 is only slightly behind
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 28 2019 18:12 GMT
#34
On June 29 2019 03:08 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2019 03:04 Xain0n wrote:
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


Head to head shouldn't generally be a criteria, but Serral is indeed decisively ahead of Dark(games Serral played in 2015 aren't that relevant) while he is only slightly behind Neeb(Serral's famous 0-3 online defeat before BlizzCon heavily contributes since they are 11-14 in maps overall).

TIL 9-5 is decisively ahead while 11-14 is only slightly behind


9-5(3-1) is decisively ahead while 11-11(3-4) is only slightly behind, yes. I don't get why this should be relevant by any means, that's not the right argument. Also, I appreciated the OPM Serral vs Neeb meme.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55476 Posts
June 28 2019 18:20 GMT
#35
On June 29 2019 03:08 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2019 03:04 Xain0n wrote:
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


Head to head shouldn't generally be a criteria, but Serral is indeed decisively ahead of Dark(games Serral played in 2015 aren't that relevant) while he is only slightly behind Neeb(Serral's famous 0-3 online defeat before BlizzCon heavily contributes since they are 11-14 in maps overall).

TIL 9-5 is decisively ahead while 11-14 is only slightly behind

Well if you work 9 to 5 you decisively work too much and if you work from 11 to 14 you're slightly lazy.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Quasarrion
Profile Joined July 2018
60 Posts
June 28 2019 18:39 GMT
#36
Its really about styles and matchups,

Serral beats Dark lately, but he struggels againts Neeb a lot. While Dark humiliates Neeb every time they meet.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 28 2019 18:55 GMT
#37
On June 29 2019 03:39 Quasarrion wrote:
Its really about styles and matchups,

Serral beats Dark lately, but he struggels againts Neeb a lot. While Dark humiliates Neeb every time they meet.


that's a good point. Serral doesn't do great against Reynor but I don't think Reynor has 2nd or 3rd best ZvZ in the world; it's more like his style doesn't match up as well against Reynor for whatever reason (Reynor plays kind of unorthodox).
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States442 Posts
June 28 2019 20:02 GMT
#38
It's almost like there are three different match-ups and players don't play to the same level in all match-ups. Head to Head should be considered but it definitely isn't the end all be all
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
June 28 2019 20:19 GMT
#39
Wonderful how we still have to tear down the same stupid arguments year after year.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Xamo
Profile Joined April 2012
Spain877 Posts
June 30 2019 10:11 GMT
#40
On June 29 2019 03:00 burnturn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


I don't know if people have seen this but here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vawjcq2f7n4qh4/Meme_SerralEU.mp4?dl=0

LOL what a video
My life for Aiur. You got a piece of me, baby. IIIIIIiiiiiii.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6832 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-05 07:53:37
July 05 2019 07:50 GMT
#41
On June 29 2019 03:00 burnturn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


I don't know if people have seen this but here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vawjcq2f7n4qh4/Meme_SerralEU.mp4?dl=0


Lol. This is gold

Edit: As to the Neeb vs Serral discussion. We'll know more next week
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
chaos is the rule
Profile Joined July 2019
1 Post
July 08 2019 02:57 GMT
#42
This PR is convincible,but Serral has greater chance to beat the list of other players
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12987 Posts
July 08 2019 11:34 GMT
#43
On July 05 2019 16:50 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2019 03:00 burnturn wrote:
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


I don't know if people have seen this but here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vawjcq2f7n4qh4/Meme_SerralEU.mp4?dl=0


Lol. This is gold

Edit: As to the Neeb vs Serral discussion. We'll know more next week

What happens next week?
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6832 Posts
July 08 2019 12:51 GMT
#44
On July 08 2019 20:34 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2019 16:50 Harris1st wrote:
On June 29 2019 03:00 burnturn wrote:
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


I don't know if people have seen this but here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vawjcq2f7n4qh4/Meme_SerralEU.mp4?dl=0


Lol. This is gold

Edit: As to the Neeb vs Serral discussion. We'll know more next week

What happens next week?


THIS
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12987 Posts
July 08 2019 15:12 GMT
#45
On July 08 2019 21:51 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2019 20:34 Pandain wrote:
On July 05 2019 16:50 Harris1st wrote:
On June 29 2019 03:00 burnturn wrote:
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


I don't know if people have seen this but here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vawjcq2f7n4qh4/Meme_SerralEU.mp4?dl=0


Lol. This is gold

Edit: As to the Neeb vs Serral discussion. We'll know more next week

What happens next week?


THIS


Damn! So soon, I felt like the ast one was just a month ago!
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6832 Posts
July 09 2019 11:16 GMT
#46
On July 09 2019 00:12 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2019 21:51 Harris1st wrote:
On July 08 2019 20:34 Pandain wrote:
On July 05 2019 16:50 Harris1st wrote:
On June 29 2019 03:00 burnturn wrote:
On June 28 2019 19:00 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 28 2019 12:42 necrosexy wrote:
On June 28 2019 11:04 Kalera wrote:
On June 28 2019 10:43 necrosexy wrote:
On June 27 2019 14:51 pvsnp wrote:
For once the #1 spot is uncontroversial. Guess that's what happens when GSL finished last week.

how the hell is Dark above a player he can't beat? ...


Ranking players isn't a linear A > B system.

Serral is above players he recently lost to (soO, Innovation, and now Stats) as well.

it's a toss up for serral vs soO, inno -- to a lesser degree, vs Stats
but he is decisively better than Dark. it's not close at all.

Neeb is decisively better than Serral, how is Serral ahead of Neeb?


I don't know if people have seen this but here.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vawjcq2f7n4qh4/Meme_SerralEU.mp4?dl=0


Lol. This is gold

Edit: As to the Neeb vs Serral discussion. We'll know more next week

What happens next week?


THIS


Damn! So soon, I felt like the ast one was just a month ago!


I know! Awesome right
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Ovi
Profile Joined April 2010
164 Posts
July 09 2019 14:18 GMT
#47
When HSC 19 results are taken into account I think Serral climbs to rank 1.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6832 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-09 14:30:43
July 09 2019 14:26 GMT
#48
On July 09 2019 23:18 Ovi wrote:
When HSC 19 results are taken into account I think Serral climbs to rank 1.


Nah. He needs more Top 10 wins for that. #3 is fine IMO

Edit: We need to wait and see how TY, soO, Solar, ... do in GSL this season to have a more accurate estimation of Serral right now. Also he lost to Stats It was a meaningless group stage loss but still
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
July 09 2019 14:36 GMT
#49
On July 09 2019 23:26 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2019 23:18 Ovi wrote:
When HSC 19 results are taken into account I think Serral climbs to rank 1.


Nah. He needs more Top 10 wins for that. #3 is fine IMO

Edit: We need to wait and see how TY, soO, Solar, ... do in GSL this season to have a more accurate estimation of Serral right now. Also he lost to Stats It was a meaningless group stage loss but still


I think Serral needs to win ASUS Rog(and/or Dark has to crash out of ro16 in Code S) in order to get #1.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
July 09 2019 17:45 GMT
#50
On July 09 2019 23:18 Ovi wrote:
When HSC 19 results are taken into account I think Serral climbs to rank 1.

Why though? He didn't win over anyone as good as the current Classic or Dark and lost to Stats. Even when we consider Dark v Serral history it's still questionable because of Classic...
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2747 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-07-09 18:01:19
July 09 2019 18:01 GMT
#51
On July 10 2019 02:45 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2019 23:18 Ovi wrote:
When HSC 19 results are taken into account I think Serral climbs to rank 1.

Why though? He didn't win over anyone as good as the current Classic or Dark and lost to Stats. Even when we consider Dark v Serral history it's still questionable because of Classic...


I agree, his zvp seems like a a bit too weak while Dark struggles only against Serral.
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