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Canada8987 Posts
On April 14 2019 05:08 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 03:36 Nakajin wrote:On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru.
However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders.
Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. And yeah like I said - it is my opinion - but you would be hard pressed to find a genuine fan honestly try to say that WCS tournaments and GSL are remotely in the same class - even though they are all categorized as "Premier". I mean if they don't take 2-25k tournament a 1-100k tournament seriously then I feel more then fine criticising them because if it. It's their job, if they want to be the best they better care about their job and practice, it's not like the SC2 calender was pack full of non-stop tournaments like in 2012-13 either, you have plenty of time to rest even in Korea. I never understood how this was use as a defense for some player, not practicing for an event seems way worst to me then underperforming... I mean he said himself at the start of both super tournaments and gsl vs the world that he used them as a break and didn't practice for them. He earned well over $400K last year it's not like he needs to win a $10K weekender, especially if he thinks taking a break will give him a better shot at Code S.
Well does what he want but I'm still gonna criticize him for it, it's not like Maru calendar was overbook. He has what 15 GSL game day a year? and then like 4 weeks of tournament (WESG-IEM-Blizzcon) and let's say another week of tournament for whatever is left (qualifier, that teamleague they did), that like 7 week of tournament being generous, meaning he could spend 2 week preeping for every single tournament he still has 6 full months left, you can't tell me he could find time to practice for ST and GSLvsTW in there.
If it make him happy he can take whatever break he want, he bloody earn it, but it's still a choice against greatness at the end of the day.
Anyhow, hype to see him tomorrow.
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On April 14 2019 05:09 fronkschnonk wrote:
@DomeGetta
I'm a really big Maru fanboy. And I'm quite sure that the majority is wrong about thinking Serral would be the best player of 2018 because of inflating the importance of Blizzcon and being hyped because of a foreigner performing that great and also counting WCS victories in account too much.
So obviously Maru is the best of 2018 for me and I think he has a claim in the GOAT discussion considering his incredible consistency and unmatched starleague success.
But Bonjwa? Xain0n is right in this case: Bonjwa means utter dominance without interruption. That's not the case with Maru. One would have to shrink the time frame to 6 months where he won 4 tournaments out of 6 (WESG + 3xGSL and losing vs Classic in Super Tournament and vs Stats in GSL vs the World in between). You can go ahead and say that GSL is harder than other competition but then it gets hard to justify how a bonjwa could be beaten in those other allegedly easier tournaments. If those 6 tournaments were the only premier ones over a course of a year or so, it could be another story but that's also not the case.
I agree. I think Serral was the best player in the world in fall of 2018 but in terms of achievements, his run was barely worse than Maru's imo, In fairness, it was almost impossible for him to have a better run since he didn't participate in GSL. I honestly believe that, If he did participate in GSL, he probably would have more achievements than Maru in 2018. Even though Maru won 3 GSLs, he always looked very mortal (except for Season 2). That said, I don't think what Serral did was more impressive than Rogue winning IEM, then GSL ST, then Blizzcon and then IEM WC (and honestly, if he had the chance, I think would have won like 3 out 4 WCS Circuit tournaments if Serral wasn't there).
On the question of bonjwa, Maru in 2018 is like Jaedong in 2009 to early 2010 (they both won like half the tournaments in this time period). There's ok argument that both are bonjwa but not one that is convincing enough for most people, especially since Serral did nearly as well as Maru in 2018.
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The question isn't who wins but how quickly he wins.
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On April 14 2019 07:28 Greenei wrote:
The question isn't who wins but how quickly he wins.
You sure? I've seen Maru having huge problems against Classic before.
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Classic's a cool bloke. Last time I was at the GSL studios--during play breaks he would always have a group of 6-7 girls sitting around him outside the main elevator, chatting him up. What a boss.
My heart's on Maru. I want him to win a 4th.
I still think if TY didn't have that alt-tab incident, it might have been a TY vs Classic finals.
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Will Maru finally win the G5L trophy that just barely escaped Mvp?
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On April 14 2019 03:32 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:
[quote]
If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case.
I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories. We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa. Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is).
LOL. Tastosis in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast clowned everything you've been whining on here. Like I said apparently six times.. you are cherrypicking . 2018 4 out of 9 if you count ST and GSLvWorld which plenty of people dont..if u dont 4 out of 6. And now 4 code S in a row lol. Keep crying not even close though when the literal standard setters in the industry dont agree with you.
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On April 14 2019 22:49 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 03:32 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru.
However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders.
Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories. We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa. Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is). LOL. Tastosis in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast clowned everything you've been whining on here. Like I said apparently six times.. you are cherrypicking . 2018 4 out of 9 if you count ST and GSLvWorld which plenty of people dont..if u dont 4 out of 6. And now 4 code S in a row lol. Keep crying not even close though when the literal standard setters in the industry dont agree with you.
Artosis is known to call everyone a bonjwa(Rogue?).
"Cherrypicking" is selecting only statistics favourable to your claim, I am including every single Premier tournament Maru played in since 2018 so your accusation is totally out of place.
Maru won five tournaments out of twelve in the considered timespan; four Code S in a row is unprecedent and impressive as you say but alone it does not make you a bonjwa, "only" WESG still is not enough according to the criteria I extensively explained before.
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On April 14 2019 23:25 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 22:49 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 03:32 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:
[quote]
You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years.
No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories. We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa. Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is). LOL. Tastosis in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast clowned everything you've been whining on here. Like I said apparently six times.. you are cherrypicking . 2018 4 out of 9 if you count ST and GSLvWorld which plenty of people dont..if u dont 4 out of 6. And now 4 code S in a row lol. Keep crying not even close though when the literal standard setters in the industry dont agree with you. Artosis is known to call everyone a bonjwa(Rogue?). "Cherrypicking" is selecting only statistics favourable to your claim, I am including every single Premier tournament Maru played in since 2018 so your accusation is totally out of place. Maru won five tournaments out of twelve in the considered timespan; four Code S in a row is unprecedent and impressive as you say but alone it does not make you a bonjwa, "only" WESG still is not enough according to the criteria I extensively explained before.
Broooo. Stop crying nonsense. The time considered is 2018. And the stats are as I put them per liquipedia.
The fact of the matter is the guy has more respect from the industry in his one pylon than you will ever have in total. What he said is 100 percent counter what you keep trying to spew as "fact". So just get off it already and go watch a Serral vod youll feel better.
Again not proclaiming Bonjwa just lolling ur delusion bias nonsense "not even close" declaration
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On April 14 2019 23:46 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 23:25 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 22:49 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 03:32 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
No, this is not merely my opinion.
Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short.
Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa.
Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one.
If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him).
Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories. We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa. Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is). LOL. Tastosis in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast clowned everything you've been whining on here. Like I said apparently six times.. you are cherrypicking . 2018 4 out of 9 if you count ST and GSLvWorld which plenty of people dont..if u dont 4 out of 6. And now 4 code S in a row lol. Keep crying not even close though when the literal standard setters in the industry dont agree with you. Artosis is known to call everyone a bonjwa(Rogue?). "Cherrypicking" is selecting only statistics favourable to your claim, I am including every single Premier tournament Maru played in since 2018 so your accusation is totally out of place. Maru won five tournaments out of twelve in the considered timespan; four Code S in a row is unprecedent and impressive as you say but alone it does not make you a bonjwa, "only" WESG still is not enough according to the criteria I extensively explained before. Broooo. Stop crying nonsense. The time considered is 2018. And the stats are as I put them per liquipedia. The fact of the matter is the guy has more respect from the industry in his one pylon than you will ever have in total. What he said is 100 percent counter what you keep trying to spew as "fact". So just get off it already and go watch a Serral vod youll feel better.
Man, this is becoming stupid; I am not whining, you are just fanboying above reason.
Artosis is great but that doesn't imply people are bonjwa when he says they are, we would be drowning in bonjwas if that was the case.
I am adding the results for 2019 as well, if you want to look at 2018 only it's even more evident that Maru was(is) not a bonjwa; he was not even the best player of the year according to TL writers and the majority of posters, what the hell are you on?
Not even close, yes. Five premier out of seven in five months was not a bonjwa run, five out of twelve in thirteen months should be because four of those five were Code S titles? It's funny that you even mention delusion.
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On April 14 2019 23:58 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 23:46 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 23:25 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 22:49 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 03:32 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:
[quote]
Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there)
As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories. We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa. Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is). LOL. Tastosis in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast clowned everything you've been whining on here. Like I said apparently six times.. you are cherrypicking . 2018 4 out of 9 if you count ST and GSLvWorld which plenty of people dont..if u dont 4 out of 6. And now 4 code S in a row lol. Keep crying not even close though when the literal standard setters in the industry dont agree with you. Artosis is known to call everyone a bonjwa(Rogue?). "Cherrypicking" is selecting only statistics favourable to your claim, I am including every single Premier tournament Maru played in since 2018 so your accusation is totally out of place. Maru won five tournaments out of twelve in the considered timespan; four Code S in a row is unprecedent and impressive as you say but alone it does not make you a bonjwa, "only" WESG still is not enough according to the criteria I extensively explained before. Broooo. Stop crying nonsense. The time considered is 2018. And the stats are as I put them per liquipedia. The fact of the matter is the guy has more respect from the industry in his one pylon than you will ever have in total. What he said is 100 percent counter what you keep trying to spew as "fact". So just get off it already and go watch a Serral vod youll feel better. Man, this is becoming stupid; I am not whining, you are just fanboying above reason. Artosis is great but that doesn't imply people are bonjwa when he says they are, we would be drowning in bonjwas if that was the case. I am adding the results for 2019 as well, if you want to look at 2018 only it's even more evident that Maru was(is) not a bonjwa; he was not even the best player of the year according to TL writers and the majority of posters, what the hell are you on? Not even close, yes. Five premier out of seven in five months was not a bonjwa run, five out of twelve in thirteen months should be because four of those five were Code S titles? It's funny that you even mention delusion.
Lololol. It doesnt matter how many times you repeat it man. It doesnt make it true. In 2018 its 4 / 9 if u count ST/GSLvW. Its 4/6 if you dont. No matter how many times you say thats not what it is lolol. Ill leave u alone now tho I can tell you are getting upset.
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On April 15 2019 00:04 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 23:58 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 23:46 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 23:25 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 22:49 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 03:32 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in.
By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa.
There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one.
That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories. We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa. Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is). LOL. Tastosis in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast clowned everything you've been whining on here. Like I said apparently six times.. you are cherrypicking . 2018 4 out of 9 if you count ST and GSLvWorld which plenty of people dont..if u dont 4 out of 6. And now 4 code S in a row lol. Keep crying not even close though when the literal standard setters in the industry dont agree with you. Artosis is known to call everyone a bonjwa(Rogue?). "Cherrypicking" is selecting only statistics favourable to your claim, I am including every single Premier tournament Maru played in since 2018 so your accusation is totally out of place. Maru won five tournaments out of twelve in the considered timespan; four Code S in a row is unprecedent and impressive as you say but alone it does not make you a bonjwa, "only" WESG still is not enough according to the criteria I extensively explained before. Broooo. Stop crying nonsense. The time considered is 2018. And the stats are as I put them per liquipedia. The fact of the matter is the guy has more respect from the industry in his one pylon than you will ever have in total. What he said is 100 percent counter what you keep trying to spew as "fact". So just get off it already and go watch a Serral vod youll feel better. Man, this is becoming stupid; I am not whining, you are just fanboying above reason. Artosis is great but that doesn't imply people are bonjwa when he says they are, we would be drowning in bonjwas if that was the case. I am adding the results for 2019 as well, if you want to look at 2018 only it's even more evident that Maru was(is) not a bonjwa; he was not even the best player of the year according to TL writers and the majority of posters, what the hell are you on? Not even close, yes. Five premier out of seven in five months was not a bonjwa run, five out of twelve in thirteen months should be because four of those five were Code S titles? It's funny that you even mention delusion. Lololol. It doesnt matter how many times you repeat it man. It doesnt make it true. In 2018 its 4 / 9 if u count ST/GSLvW. Its 4/6 if you dont. No matter how many times you say thats not what it is lolol. Ill leave u alone now tho I can tell you are getting upset.
Lol, it doesn't matter how many times you fail to understand it, I have been indeed considering 4/9 in 2018 to which I'm adding 1/3 in 2019. The result is, unsurprisingly, 5/12.
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On April 15 2019 00:18 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2019 00:04 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 23:58 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 23:46 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 23:25 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 22:49 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 03:32 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:
[quote]
That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin).
It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again.
Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories. We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa. Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is). LOL. Tastosis in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast clowned everything you've been whining on here. Like I said apparently six times.. you are cherrypicking . 2018 4 out of 9 if you count ST and GSLvWorld which plenty of people dont..if u dont 4 out of 6. And now 4 code S in a row lol. Keep crying not even close though when the literal standard setters in the industry dont agree with you. Artosis is known to call everyone a bonjwa(Rogue?). "Cherrypicking" is selecting only statistics favourable to your claim, I am including every single Premier tournament Maru played in since 2018 so your accusation is totally out of place. Maru won five tournaments out of twelve in the considered timespan; four Code S in a row is unprecedent and impressive as you say but alone it does not make you a bonjwa, "only" WESG still is not enough according to the criteria I extensively explained before. Broooo. Stop crying nonsense. The time considered is 2018. And the stats are as I put them per liquipedia. The fact of the matter is the guy has more respect from the industry in his one pylon than you will ever have in total. What he said is 100 percent counter what you keep trying to spew as "fact". So just get off it already and go watch a Serral vod youll feel better. Man, this is becoming stupid; I am not whining, you are just fanboying above reason. Artosis is great but that doesn't imply people are bonjwa when he says they are, we would be drowning in bonjwas if that was the case. I am adding the results for 2019 as well, if you want to look at 2018 only it's even more evident that Maru was(is) not a bonjwa; he was not even the best player of the year according to TL writers and the majority of posters, what the hell are you on? Not even close, yes. Five premier out of seven in five months was not a bonjwa run, five out of twelve in thirteen months should be because four of those five were Code S titles? It's funny that you even mention delusion. Lololol. It doesnt matter how many times you repeat it man. It doesnt make it true. In 2018 its 4 / 9 if u count ST/GSLvW. Its 4/6 if you dont. No matter how many times you say thats not what it is lolol. Ill leave u alone now tho I can tell you are getting upset. Lol, it doesn't matter how many times you fail to understand it, I have been indeed considering 4/9 in 2018 to which I'm adding 1/3 in 2019. The result is, unsurprisingly, 5/12.
So you are asserting then that a year span is not long enough?? Or you are picking a time line that helps supports your ludicrous claim? xd
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On April 15 2019 00:21 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2019 00:18 Xain0n wrote:On April 15 2019 00:04 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 23:58 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 23:46 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 23:25 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 22:49 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 03:32 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that.
Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh?
Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa.
You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories. We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa. Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is). LOL. Tastosis in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast clowned everything you've been whining on here. Like I said apparently six times.. you are cherrypicking . 2018 4 out of 9 if you count ST and GSLvWorld which plenty of people dont..if u dont 4 out of 6. And now 4 code S in a row lol. Keep crying not even close though when the literal standard setters in the industry dont agree with you. Artosis is known to call everyone a bonjwa(Rogue?). "Cherrypicking" is selecting only statistics favourable to your claim, I am including every single Premier tournament Maru played in since 2018 so your accusation is totally out of place. Maru won five tournaments out of twelve in the considered timespan; four Code S in a row is unprecedent and impressive as you say but alone it does not make you a bonjwa, "only" WESG still is not enough according to the criteria I extensively explained before. Broooo. Stop crying nonsense. The time considered is 2018. And the stats are as I put them per liquipedia. The fact of the matter is the guy has more respect from the industry in his one pylon than you will ever have in total. What he said is 100 percent counter what you keep trying to spew as "fact". So just get off it already and go watch a Serral vod youll feel better. Man, this is becoming stupid; I am not whining, you are just fanboying above reason. Artosis is great but that doesn't imply people are bonjwa when he says they are, we would be drowning in bonjwas if that was the case. I am adding the results for 2019 as well, if you want to look at 2018 only it's even more evident that Maru was(is) not a bonjwa; he was not even the best player of the year according to TL writers and the majority of posters, what the hell are you on? Not even close, yes. Five premier out of seven in five months was not a bonjwa run, five out of twelve in thirteen months should be because four of those five were Code S titles? It's funny that you even mention delusion. Lololol. It doesnt matter how many times you repeat it man. It doesnt make it true. In 2018 its 4 / 9 if u count ST/GSLvW. Its 4/6 if you dont. No matter how many times you say thats not what it is lolol. Ill leave u alone now tho I can tell you are getting upset. Lol, it doesn't matter how many times you fail to understand it, I have been indeed considering 4/9 in 2018 to which I'm adding 1/3 in 2019. The result is, unsurprisingly, 5/12. So you are asserting then that a year span is not long enough?? Or you are picking a time line that helps supports your ludicrous claim? xd
It's pretty easy, my reasonable claim is that Maru's performance is not remotely dominant enough for him to be called bonjwa.
Liquipedia's definition of the term is "a bonjwa has very high winning percentage and successive tournament wins"; 40% is good but definitely not "very high", while the tournament wins have to be chronologically consecutive(like Flash's in 2010). Maru's Code S victories are indeed back to back relatively to the competition but they are months away one from each other with and he proceeded to lose all the other tournaments that he played in meanwhile, WESG being the exception.
Life's run is way more fitting to bonjwa's criterias and yet he wasn't crowned as such, it would be silly to call Maru a bonjwa now.
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Great article! I didn't know this could be Classic's last GSL final before his military service :/ I hope all the best for him
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France12750 Posts
So Xainon is Rodya / Dave4 alt as well right?
It’s sad Classic will go in the military soon, hopefully there will still be a sc2 scene in the future when he returns.
The bonjwa debate doesn’t make sense though because it’s intended for sc:BW based on past experiences that there are people in there eligible to be considered one.
In sc2 it hasn’t happened so we better define a new term similar to bonjwa but with eligible sc2 players, or just don’t bother anymore with that word.
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On April 15 2019 02:24 Poopi wrote:
So Xainon is Rodya / Dave4 alt as well right?
It’s sad Classic will go in the military soon, hopefully there will still be a sc2 scene in the future when he returns.
The bonjwa debate doesn’t make sense though because it’s intended for sc:BW based on past experiences that there are people in there eligible to be considered one.
In sc2 it hasn’t happened so we better define a new term similar to bonjwa but with eligible sc2 players, or just don’t bother anymore with that word.
Just because I don't worship Maru I should be one unreliable troll spouting senseless theories?
Trying to discredit me this way is nothing but a low bow.
I said already bonjwa is a word created and intended for Brood War, yet there should be players whose results could theorically made them considered one; Maru simply is not one of those.
And this is not because I dislike Maru, if he wins other five Premier tournaments until November he may very well be one; at the moment his results, despite amazing, are not suitable with the b word.
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The GSL ST is just too soon after the GSL code S finals. There are just 4 days to rest and prepare, after 2+ months of preparations for GSL code S games. The winner of the GSL is difficult to blame if he doesn't keep working hard for this tournament. In 2 weeks GSL code S season 2 starts. No time to rest. I can understand if he chooses to take time off to recover before the next season.
For me GSL code S is the most important tournament due to it's prestige, tradition and due to remaining the only preparation tournament, since proleague has been gone. I really enjoy the format of 1 game per week, I think it allows the player to give it's best and show it's highest level. 4 GSLs in a row it's something incredible. People were amazed when soO played and lost 4 consecutive finals. 4 consecutive wins? It's shocking.
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It's pretty easy, my reasonable claim is that Maru's performance is not remotely dominant enough for him to be called bonjwa.
Liquipedia's definition of the term is "a bonjwa has very high winning percentage and successive tournament wins"; 40% is good but definitely not "very high", while the tournament wins have to be chronologically consecutive(like Flash's in 2010). Maru's Code S victories are indeed back to back relatively to the competition but they are months away one from each other with and he proceeded to lose all the other tournaments that he played in meanwhile, WESG being the exception.
Life's run is way more fitting to bonjwa's criterias and yet he wasn't crowned as such, it would be silly to call Maru a bonjwa now.
His winrate since the beginning of 2018 is 69.11 in maps and 75.69% in matches
In 2018 only it was 68.62% in maps and 76.47% in matches.
Winrates aren't just how many tournaments you win, but your maps and matches.
Flash's winrates at the peak of his career, 74.1% in 2009, 75% in 2010, 74.1% in 2011
Flash did win more tournaments more consistently at his peak, however even among the other 'bonjwas' he was clearly in a league of his own
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On April 14 2019 19:31 gobbledydook wrote:
Will Maru finally win the G5L trophy that just barely escaped Mvp?
Not only will he do it , he will do it with championships won back to back 
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EPT
