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I REALLY want Classic to win, what a storyline that would be! Of course if Maru wins it's the first 4 in a row Code S title, but he's just breaking his own records at this point.
GOGO CLASSIC!
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this will be a Classic 4-3 Maru epic battles
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On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals.
You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years.
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On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years.
people don't have to "be clear" that things are their opinions, it's common sense. "that's just your opinion" is what people say when they're annoyed someone disagrees with them, lol.
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On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years.
No, this is not merely my opinion.
Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short.
Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa.
Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one.
If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him).
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I really really really need classic to win...
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On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him).
Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there)
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On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there)
As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in.
By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa.
There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one.
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On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one.
That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin).
It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again.
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On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again.
Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that.
Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh?
Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa.
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On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa.
You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines -
He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had.
And yeah like I said - it is my opinion - but you would be hard pressed to find a genuine fan honestly try to say that WCS tournaments and GSL are remotely in the same class - even though they are all categorized as "Premier".
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I feel like Classic is going to win because everyone thinks Maru is going to win.
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On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had.
If you want to extend the period I am considering feel free to, Maru didn't win anything in the previous two years at least; those thirtheen months I mentioned are the ones enclosing his Premier victories.
We are not even discussing who was the best player in 2018(according to TL writers themselves and the majority of TLers it was Serral); including the tournaments played in 2019 is integral to your call of Maru being bonjwa.
Discounting Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World really is cherrypicking. It might seem that I hate Maru, but in reality it's just that his run, albeit unprecedent in Code S, is not really suitable with the definition of bonjwa(while Life's definitely is).
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Canada8989 Posts
On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:On April 13 2019 13:03 fronkschnonk wrote:
I don't dare to predict anything. Maru is a black box now, capable of brutally destroying Classic but also possibly being weirdly dismantled as if he had been the emperor with actually no clothes all the time.
As much as I would love seeing Classic getting his pre-retirement victory I can't help to hope for Maru winning it the 4th time in a row - just to shut down all the doubter - including me.
And wouldn't it be much more satisfying dramatically, if Classic had to fight the entire year just to finally lift the trophy of GSL season 3? If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case. I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. And yeah like I said - it is my opinion - but you would be hard pressed to find a genuine fan honestly try to say that WCS tournaments and GSL are remotely in the same class - even though they are all categorized as "Premier".
I mean if they don't take 2-25k tournament a 1-100k tournament seriously then I feel more then fine criticising them because if it.
It's their job, if they want to be the best they better care about their job and practice, it's not like the SC2 calender was pack full of non-stop tournaments like in 2012-13 either, you have plenty of time to rest even in Korea.
I never understood how this was use as a defense for some player, not practicing for an event seems way worst to me then underperforming...
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The article makes me want to cheer for classic.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 14 2019 03:36 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:
[quote]
If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case.
I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. And yeah like I said - it is my opinion - but you would be hard pressed to find a genuine fan honestly try to say that WCS tournaments and GSL are remotely in the same class - even though they are all categorized as "Premier". I mean if they don't take 2-25k tournament a 1-100k tournament seriously then I feel more then fine criticising them because if it. It's their job, if they want to be the best they better care about their job and practice, it's not like the SC2 calender was pack full of non-stop tournaments like in 2012-13 either, you have plenty of time to rest even in Korea. I never understood how this was use as a defense for some player, not practicing for an event seems way worst to me then underperforming...
2k18 Maru underperformed only at GSL ST1(RO8 vs Classic IIRC) & ST2(RO8 vs sOs) and at Blizzcon(RO8 vs sOs)(considering it was a team kill that's debatable). And by underperformed we're talking about Maru placing at RO8 or better when underperforming. From the top players.
GSL vs The world was him taking RO4, IEM RO4
The he won 3 top tournaments with the top competition and WESG.
So out of these "9 premiers" he won 4, ended at RO4 stage twice(once to a teamkill) and at RO8 three times, twice thanks to a team kill
...
He underperformed with the RO8 end... WTF am I reading again?
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I'm feeling Classic 4-3 Maru.
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On April 14 2019 03:36 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 03:10 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:55 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:32 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 02:20 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 02:01 DomeGetta wrote:On April 14 2019 00:14 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 23:34 DomeGetta wrote:On April 13 2019 19:02 Xain0n wrote:On April 13 2019 15:48 Morbidius wrote:
[quote]
If anyone still doubts Maru, after OSL, GSL, SSL and Proleague... I don't know what to say. He has been the most consistent Terran in Korea for 5 years, those people would not stop doubting even if he did 6 in a row. At this point in time what more could you expect? Even the best weekend player would die to have Maru's trophy case.
I don't think anybody can realistically doubt Maru. However, he would be bonjwa in a world where Code S is the only Premier tournament; he is not even close at the moment and his fourth consecutive title wouldn't help in that regard! The title is about domination and while he rules supreme in Code S he has relatively poor results in weekenders. Classic may hope to delay his enlistment only if he wins now, I'm not sure he would even be able to play Season 2's finals. You should be more clear that this is obviously your opinion and not based on anything other than that lol. There are plenty of people (myself included) that think 3 code s titles in a row makes a bonjwa. Its by far the hardest tournament in the world to win (ask soO) and he did it 3 times in a row..a 4th would cement his super saiyan legendary bonjwa status in my book. His accomplishments are unmatched and no one else has shown anything close to this in sc2 history. Please spare me the joke about Serrals 4 WCS "premier" wins. Thank u. If Maru "isn't close" to bonjwa then we clearly haven't had anyone "even close" to being one in sc2 - which sounds a bit stupid after 10 years. No, this is not merely my opinion. Look for the true meaning of the word bonjwa and you will find out by yourself the term(that is strictly tied to Brood War and has never fit Sc2 anyway) is tied to almost complete domination in the most relevant competitions throughout a certain period of time, even quite short. Consistency doesn't help and winning a single tournament multiple times, no matter how hard or prestigious, in the span of one year doesn't especially strenghten your claim on the title ; Jaedong, with all his successes, was never crowned bonjwa. Mvp in 2011 and Life in 2012/2013(even more: five Premier tournaments, including Code S, won in five months) were the closest to a bonjwa Sc2 ever had; Serral in 2018 showcased bonjwa level win percentages and domination but he was objectively helped in this regard as he was playing in WCS, he had to keep winning international tournaments this year to truly cement himself as one. If Maru is bonjwa "by your book" then it's just your own delusion, his fourth Code S win would lead him way closer to be GOAT than bonjwa(despite I still think he wouldn't be GOAT because of his lack of successes in weekenders, not to mention Inno would still be three premier tournaments victories ahead of him). Thanks for confirming my original thought on ur post lol. Brick probably feels a little dumb now for defending u. Consistently dominating the most relevant competitions for a whole year is more than enough for me. Just my opinion though (see what I did there) As I said, if only Code S existed Maru would be bonjwa, unfortunately there are actually other korean and international tournaments that can be considered releavant ; the plural in competitionS is key, I means you have to dominate all of most of the premier tournament you participate in. By winning tomorrow, Maru would have won five premier tournaments out of twelve he played in the span of almost thirteen months; only two of these, the first, were consecutive in March 2018. After that, he won in June, September and (if he beats Classic) April 2019; unprecedent domination in Code S and overall nice consistency but not even close to near invincibility and density of successes needed to be a bonjwa. There is no need for people to defend me, the dumb thing is actually trying to subvert the meaning of words so that they please your vision; just as Maru might be 1.90 mt tall in your opinion but, in reality, he is not, according to the generally accepted definition of bonjwa Maru is far from being one. That's your opinion to which you are entitled - mine is that there were 6 relevant tournaments in 2018 - 3 GSL's / Katowice/WESG/Blizzcon (the former being relevant based on the prestige and difficultly that goes along with Code S and the latter being relevant based on the prize pool and competition). Maru won 4 of the 6 - and the top 3 for difficultly in terms of the strength of the total field in the tournament (Code S - by a large margin). It's definitely debatable whether he's bonjwa or not - but it's delusional (to use your words) to say that he's "not even close" - Again - if he's not even close - then we will never have a bonjwa in Sc2 - there is clearly more variance in Sc2 than BW - No one would have ever predicted to see domination like we did last year - I would be shocked if we ever saw it again. Again, what I presented is not my opinion, the twelve tournaments I spoke of are the exact number of Premiers Maru played in during the period March 2018-April 2019; Life's run was of five premier tournaments won out of seven from October 2012 to March 2013, that's close to what a bonjwa should look like(not sure why he wasn't acclaimed as one) and Maru's definitely not like that. Excluding tournaments according to your ideas is indeed coming down to opinions, what you are doing is equivalent to to think WCS are relevant enough to ignore so that Serral's run from Austin to HSC is the one of a bonjwa; convenient, uh? Sc2 doesn't have single regional scene like in BW and tournaments are not carved in stone like OSL and MSL once were so that is harder to reach consensum and results sufficient to be crowned bonjwa. You are doing your own cherry picking of timelines - He played in 9 "Premier " tournaments 2018 - because Super Tournament / GSL vs the World are classified as "Premier" - even when it is known that the very top players in Korea don't take them seriously - so discounting Super tournament and GSL vs the World as I said previously - he was 4/6 - only dropping 2 series to his team Rogue/sOs during that run. And people did talk about Life as a bonwja - and I would argue that after Maru - he's probably the closest thing we had. And yeah like I said - it is my opinion - but you would be hard pressed to find a genuine fan honestly try to say that WCS tournaments and GSL are remotely in the same class - even though they are all categorized as "Premier". I mean if they don't take 2-25k tournament a 1-100k tournament seriously then I feel more then fine criticising them because if it. It's their job, if they want to be the best they better care about their job and practice, it's not like the SC2 calender was pack full of non-stop tournaments like in 2012-13 either, you have plenty of time to rest even in Korea. I never understood how this was use as a defense for some player, not practicing for an event seems way worst to me then underperforming...
I mean he said himself at the start of both super tournaments and gsl vs the world that he used them as a break and didn't practice for them. He earned well over $400K last year it's not like he needs to win a $10K weekender, especially if he thinks taking a break will give him a better shot at Code S.
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@DomeGetta
I'm a really big Maru fanboy. And I'm quite sure that the majority is wrong about thinking Serral would be the best player of 2018 because of inflating the importance of Blizzcon and being hyped because of a foreigner performing that great and also counting WCS victories in account too much.
So obviously Maru is the best of 2018 for me and I think he has a claim in the GOAT discussion considering his incredible consistency and unmatched starleague success.
But Bonjwa? Xain0n is right in this case: Bonjwa means utter dominance without interruption. That's not the case with Maru. One would have to shrink the time frame to 6 months where he won 4 tournaments out of 6 (WESG + 3xGSL and losing vs Classic in Super Tournament and vs Stats in GSL vs the World in between). You can go ahead and say that GSL is harder than other competition but then it gets hard to justify how a bonjwa could be beaten in those other allegedly easier tournaments. If those 6 tournaments were the only premier ones over a course of a year or so, it could be another story but that's also not the case.
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EPT
