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The banner of this article is kinda interesting since the article is about these players... mostly. Elazer and Nerchio aren't present and Snute only mentioned in passing. Especially surprising since Nerchio and Elazer are already in the groups--though they'll probably be in the other parts of the article.
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The banner of this article is kinda interesting since the article is about these players... mostly. Elazer and Nerchio aren't present and Snute only mentioned in passing. Especially surprising since Nerchio and Elazer are already in the groups--though they'll probably be in the other parts of the article.
Nerchio and Elazer will be playing at home in Katowice, so they will destroy all Koreans. No need to give it away in the first part of the article.
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On February 09 2018 07:41 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 09 2018 07:30 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote:A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments. On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote:
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity. Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing. Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most. I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2. And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL. If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene. It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course. Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason. I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post. Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
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On February 09 2018 08:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
The banner of this article is kinda interesting since the article is about these players... mostly. Elazer and Nerchio aren't present and Snute only mentioned in passing. Especially surprising since Nerchio and Elazer are already in the groups--though they'll probably be in the other parts of the article.
Yeah I'd guess the banner is the same for both parts.
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Bracket 1: Maru, Stats and TY.
Greatest upset potential, Ryung, Bly, Probe and Ptitdrogo
Bracket 2: herO, Serral and Scarlett/Solar.
Greatest upset potential: TRUE, Leenock, Zanster.
Bracket 3: Zest, Special and Snute
Greatest upset potential: Jjakji and Billowy
Bracket 4: soO, Trap and Neeb.
Greatest upset potential: Patience, ByuN and Losira
I know I really believe in the foreigners here, but I just do, really hoping Scarlett can take down Solar because then I think she's really likely to go through.
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On February 09 2018 08:18 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 07:41 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 09 2018 07:30 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote:A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments. On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote:
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity. Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing. Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most. I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2. And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL. If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene. It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course. Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason. I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post. Memes are memes, I love memes. I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread. Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal. Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through.
Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer.
Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some basis in primal instinct behind it (not endorsing racism ofc).
But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
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On February 09 2018 08:54 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 08:18 Musicus wrote:On February 09 2018 07:41 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 09 2018 07:30 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote:A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments. On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote:
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity. Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing. Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most. I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2. And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL. If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene. It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course. Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason. I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post. Memes are memes, I love memes. I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread. Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal. Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam". You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through. Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer. Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?" Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some primal instinct behind it (not an endorsement of racism). But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
You're just mad your country didn't win Olympic Starcraft :p
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On February 09 2018 08:54 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 08:18 Musicus wrote:On February 09 2018 07:41 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 09 2018 07:30 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote:A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments. On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote:
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity. Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing. Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most. I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2. And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL. If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene. It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course. Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason. I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post. Memes are memes, I love memes. I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread. Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal. Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam". You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through. Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer. Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?" Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some basis in primal instinct behind it (not endorsing racism ofc). But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
I agree with you mostly but I also feel the need to point out that the need to feel a tribal sense of belonging to "something"that you identity yourself as a part of is a primal instict as well as t to feel pride at the success of ones own tribe/family or similar. Doesn't make it less bad and illogical, still it is primal.
Personally I feel inclined to cheer for players that come from my country, I feel I have more in common with them than others even if I myself have a hard time to narrow that feeling down to what exactly that means. However to cheer especially hard for people close by like a person from your city/family/old classmate and so on is in my view normal, nationalism is that taken to the extreme.
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On February 09 2018 09:15 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 08:54 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 08:18 Musicus wrote:On February 09 2018 07:41 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 09 2018 07:30 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote:A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments. On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote:
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity. Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing. Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most. I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2. And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL. If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene. It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course. Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason. I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post. Memes are memes, I love memes. I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread. Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal. Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam". You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through. Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer. Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?" Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some primal instinct behind it (not an endorsement of racism). But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable. You're just mad your country didn't win Olympic Starcraft :p
And only now do I notice that it's the Canadian who responded.....
*ahem*
"Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
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On February 09 2018 09:22 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 09:15 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 09 2018 08:54 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 08:18 Musicus wrote:On February 09 2018 07:41 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 09 2018 07:30 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote:A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments. On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote:
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity. Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing. Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most. I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2. And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL. If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene. It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course. Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason. I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post. Memes are memes, I love memes. I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread. Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal. Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam". You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through. Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer. Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?" Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some primal instinct behind it (not an endorsement of racism). But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable. You're just mad your country didn't win Olympic Starcraft :p And only now do I notice that it's the Canadian who responded..... *ahem*
"Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
My contribution is informing you that you in fact are probably just mad.
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On February 09 2018 09:22 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 08:54 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 08:18 Musicus wrote:On February 09 2018 07:41 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 09 2018 07:30 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote:A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments. On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote:
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity. Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing. Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most. I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2. And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL. If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene. It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course. Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason. I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post. Memes are memes, I love memes. I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread. Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal. Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam". You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through. Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer. Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?" Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some basis in primal instinct behind it (not endorsing racism ofc). But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable. I agree with you mostly but I also feel the need to point out that the need to feel a tribal sense of belonging to "something"that you identity yourself as a part of is a primal instict as well as t to feel pride at the success of ones own tribe/family or similar. Doesn't make it less bad and illogical, still it is primal. Personally I feel inclined to cheer for players that come from my country, I feel I have more in common with them than others even if I myself have a hard time to narrow that feeling down to what exactly that means. However to cheer especially hard for people close by like a person from your city/family/old classmate and so on is in my view normal, nationalism is that taken to the extreme.
Yes, I do recognize the foundation of tribalism inherent in nationalism. I like that you said "nationalism is that taken to the extreme," because while it makes perfect evolutionary sense to cheer for friends/family/etc, nationalism has people cheering for people they do not know and will never meet.
Nationalism has people dying for leaders who will never even realize they existed in the first place, in order to kill other people who were sentenced to die for the crime of living some arbitrary distance away–despite in many cases sharing ties of blood/race/religion/any other kind of human bond. And that level of nationalism is universal to every country in the world, tragically enough.
And that all happens when nationalism is still used honestly, don't get me started on demagoguery.
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On February 09 2018 06:08 Kafka777 wrote:Show nested quote +Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but not an excuse to abandon reason. Enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though. The way qualifiers were organized gave Koreans almost automatically 7-9 spots in round of 24 (only Elazer managed to take one away from them and potentially Neeb or Special could have taken another).. The offline qualifiers will give them another 9-10 spots at least. So when the proper tournaments starts we will have 4-6 foreigners facing about 18 Koreans. The odds are against foreigners in Katowice but then again anything may happen.
No, the qualifiers were open to anyone. Both the open bracket and server qualifiers. The only "guranteed" spots were for foreigners via the EU server, because it's impossible for koreans to win there. All the other foreigners/koreans could play fine on both KR and NA.
(and before you say EU players have less chances, it's much easier for them to sign up to the open bracket so it's fair in that sense)
It's not 18 koreans vs 4-6 foreigners. Every single korean and foreigner entered the event. If more koreans end up in the tournament it's because they beat others to get there. In which case the numbers are representative of skill
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On February 09 2018 09:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 09:22 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 09:15 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On February 09 2018 08:54 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 08:18 Musicus wrote:On February 09 2018 07:41 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 07:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 09 2018 07:30 pvsnp wrote:On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote:A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments. On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote:
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity. Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing. Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most. I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2. And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL. If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene. It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course. Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason. I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post. Memes are memes, I love memes. I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread. Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal. Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam". You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through. Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer. Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?" Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some primal instinct behind it (not an endorsement of racism). But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable. You're just mad your country didn't win Olympic Starcraft :p And only now do I notice that it's the Canadian who responded..... *ahem*
"Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?" My contribution is informing you that you in fact are probably just mad.
Truly, Canada is blessed to have such a valiant champion.
On February 09 2018 09:36 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2018 06:08 Kafka777 wrote:Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but not an excuse to abandon reason. Enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though. The way qualifiers were organized gave Koreans almost automatically 7-9 spots in round of 24 (only Elazer managed to take one away from them and potentially Neeb or Special could have taken another).. The offline qualifiers will give them another 9-10 spots at least. So when the proper tournaments starts we will have 4-6 foreigners facing about 18 Koreans. The odds are against foreigners in Katowice but then again anything may happen. No, the qualifiers were open to anyone. Both the open bracket and server qualifiers. The only "guranteed" spots were for foreigners via the EU server, because it's impossible for koreans to win there. All the other foreigners/koreans could play fine on both KR and NA. (and before you say EU players have less chances, it's much easier for them to sign up to the open bracket so it's fair in that sense) It's not 18 koreans vs 4-6 foreigners. Every single korean and foreigner entered the event. If more koreans end up in the tournament it's because they beat others to get there. In which case the numbers are representative of skill
That's one of the reasons why Katowice is my favorite tournament.
Another is that "Katowice" is a really cool name 
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On February 09 2018 07:09 Kafka777 wrote:Show nested quote +? the qualifiers were open. Everyone had an equal chance to qualify. If there are more koreans in the tournament it's because they are better players and managed to eliminate the foreigners beforehand. Lets be serious. it is not possible for foreign players to play on Korean server. - That's why 6 spots went to Korea. The US server is ok only for NA players, but they didn't really bother. So qualifiers only theoretically offered equal opportunity, in fact they guaranteed more spots for Koreans in final stages of the tournament..
Katowice is the best representative of skill out of any event.
NA players had easy access to all the qualifiers, KR players had access to 3/4, EU players had 2/4. But at the same time the open bracket (which is as big as all server qualifiers combined) is dominated by EU players. So if the tournament ends up being korean dominated, it's because they're better. Not because the server's guaranteed them most of the places.
"it is not possible for foreign players to play on Korean server". Most of the top foreigners live in either NA or KR so ping isn't an issue. If they fail to qualify it's because they aren't good enough.
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Korea gets more spots by default. That is the truth and now way around it. Whatever you argue that's how the qualifiers are set. Obviously they have more chance to win. But they will not.
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On February 09 2018 05:28 TheDougler wrote:I just checked out the open brackets... Bracket 4 is absolutely insane, 8 koreans and neeb (plus Kas, TLO, SortOf, and Harstem). Scarlett's Bracket (bracket 2) isn't much easier though. Bracket 3 is exciting and the best chance for foreigners to qualify, Bracket 1 doesn't have any good foreigners. http://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_XII_-_World_Championship
OMG the open brackets are incredible!
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On February 09 2018 10:08 Kafka777 wrote:
Korea gets more spots by default. That is the truth and now way around it. Whatever you argue that's how the qualifiers are set. Obviously they have more chance to win. But they will not.
sorry but yeah they will win
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Russian Federation193 Posts
Top 4 at best. No way will the foreigners win IEM Kato
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On February 09 2018 17:27 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Top 4 at best. No way will the foreigners win IEM Kato
Top 4 is on the optimistic (for foreign fans) side of things all things considered. Last year the best non-Korean performers were Serral in the top 8 and Nerchio in the top 12, and the Korean contingent was significantly smaller in number.
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EPT
