This article is part of a cooperation between ESL and TeamLiquid.net for the IEM World Championship event coming up in Katowice. ESL has provided images, information and financial support for us to produce this article and others.
It’s only February, but the journey to the WCS Global Finals is well underway. WCS Leipzig was everything the community could have wanted from 2018’s inaugural event. When the dust settled, heralded prodigy Serral stood victorious as he supplanted three time WCS champion Neeb to become king of the foreigner scene. However, he did not have long to rest on his laurels. Two weeks later, perennial fan favorite Scarlett captured her first major championship at IEM Pyeongchang.
The IEM World Championship represents the next stop on the journey. An almost unfathomable 76 players will battle for one of the most prestigious titles in the game as well as a coveted spot in the WCS Global Finals. In the past, hopes for a foreigner victory would have been met with a despondent shrug: Koreans per usual dominated every iteration with insouciance. Scarlett’s recent triumph offered the first tantalizing glimpse at what what some are hoping will be a year similar to 2016, when an outsider marched into Seoul and did the inconceivable.
The manner in which Neeb dominated KeSPA Cup was so unprecedented, it instantly catapulted him to the echelon reserved for legends like Stephano and NaNiwa. Never mind the well-documented apathy of Korean pros at that point in StarCraft history, or Neeb’s intimate familiarity with all aspects of PvP. The symbolic significance surpassed any asterisk you could place on his achievement. Not even Dark’s bulldozer victory over him at BlizzCon could quell the feverish anticipation surrounding Neeb’s potential.
A year later and his breakout victory is almost an afterthought. That’s how spectacular Neeb was in 2017. In the span of roughly one year, Neeb went from a newly proven force to establishing near-total hegemony over the foreign scene. Despite contentious victories at WCS Austin and Jönköping, he put to rest any misgivings regarding his skill level and pedestrian style. Neeb quickly superseded a disappointing quarterfinals finish at WCS Valencia with an ostentatious display at WCS Montreal: his 17-2 record was reminiscent of performances we had seen from the best Koreans. The year ended on a sour note—Neeb failed to exit his group at BlizzCon—but he remains the top dog in the foreign scene.
If only matches could be played on paper. Perhaps Neeb is merely a big fish in a rapidly expanding pond. For the first time in nearly a year, cracks appeared in Neeb’s flawless facade at WCS Leipzig. His semifinals opponent was a Protoss, the type of easy prey he had effortlessly brushed aside in his championship runs. He surged ahead 2-1 but when the dust settled, to the shock of many, Neeb ended up the loser.
As Neeb fell, ShoWTimE was back in the finals for the first time in a year and a half. The German Protoss had his big breakthrough back in 2016, where he topped the WCS Spring Championship before performing impressively at IEM Shanghai and WCS Copa Intercontinental. He did so with a methodical playstyle that appeared plodding to the uninitiated, though complimented by a keen sense of awareness that allowed him to seize critical moments. The combination made him one of Europe’s brightest stars heading into 2017.
Unfortunately, the past year has to be considered an unmitigated disaster. ShoWTimE only reached the quarterfinals once across four WCS events, and he couldn’t even manage those results outside of the circuit. There was something fundamentally wrong with his play: critical errors, born of nerves or even lack of focus, marred his losses. ShoWTimE was capable of far more but no obvious solution was forthcoming.
ShoWTimE’s image as an elite player may have been sullied over the course of 2017, but he surged back to the forefront at Leipzig. Sadly, the tournament didn’t end there to preserve his triumph. It took him five games to announce his return—it only took six for him to be dashed back to Earth. His loss to Serral aside, ShoWTimE’s recent success marks him as one of the foreigners most likely to make a deep run amid the Korean ridden field at the World Championships.
Expectations are not as high for another of 2016’s wunderkinds, uThermal. The Dutch Terran’s career has begged us to consider if flashes of high level play can overshadow a dearth of results. For two months in 2016 he escaped the monkey’s paw that accosts all international Terran players. It would have been easy to dismiss his Top 4 finish at Dreamhack Leipzig as luck, the product of a metagame in upheaval. Naysayers would not have such an easy time come July, when uThermal took the next step by winning IEM Shanghai. He lost to Neeb in a rematch of that final in the semifinals of the WCS Copa Intercontinental, but at that point he was established as the elite foreign Terran.
Like ShoWTimE, 2017 was brutal to the Team Liquid Terran. But while ShoWTimE wilted only to be revived, uThermal almost completely vanished. uThermal reached the IEM World Championships on the back of an impressive qualifying campaign, but it is a poor consolation prize given everything surrounding those results. He reached the Round of 8 only once in 2017, at WCS Jönköping, and failed to even match that finish in the first event of 2018. To label it as a fall from grace would be a disservice to its magnitude. In this sense, uThermal’s fortunes reflect the depressing tale of international Terran potency: while Korea is famous for routinely churning out top-tier performers such as Mvp, INnoVation and Maru with prosperous careers, foreign champions inevitably burn out and fade away after brief flares of success. If he is truly a victim of fate rather than circumstance, the former champion will have to work overtime to keep the spark of hope alight.
With uThermal’s decline, the community briefly fancied an underdog from Brazil as the next Terran hope. Kelazhur’s first noteworthy result came back in 2014 at IEM Sao Paulo, although he failed to break through for three more years. It was only at WCS Jönköping last year where he staked his claim as head of the foreign space cowboys, sweeping uThermal in the quarterfinals. Consistent Top 8 finishes in the other three WCS events earned him a spot in the WCS Global Finals, making him only one of two foreign Terrans at BlizzCon.
Kelazhur’s unlikely origins and representation of a traditionally disregarded region make him a darling of the passionate fanbase. Unfortunately his rise has recently stalled and it doesn’t appear to be a temporary bump. He pleasantly stole a rare game from Dark at BlizzCon, but was bounced from the tournament promptly thereafter. He couldn’t get past the third group stage at Leipzig and only managed a win over HeRoMaRinE at IEM Pyeongchang. Though he momentarily inspired hope as a worthy successor, all signs point that expectations were misplaced. Like a plethora of past prodigies Kelazhur has regressed back to the mean. Now he finds himself firmly entrenched among the second tier of foreign pros, searching to claw his way back to the top.
And yet, for all those mired waist deep in the mud, SpeCial managed to break free in 2017. The Artist Formerly Known as MajOr (and WinDy and Princess and CuteAngel and 10 other names lost to antiquity) has finally found a foothold in his perpetual search for reinvention. A strong practice partner with natural aptitude, harboring a regrettable tendency to choke at LANs, SpeCial shed the nerves that made him dismissable in the past. His pseudo-rivalry with Neeb over 2017 became the premier clash in the foreign scene: he lost to the American Protoss in Austin and Jönköping, only to get his revenge in Valencia (Neeb’s only loss in the playoff portion of the WCS Circuit all year). And then...he bombed out to Snute immediately afterwards.
If confidence in his skill was the great barrier that limited SpeCial in the past, vertigo is the daunting obstacle he faces now. No matter how often he can showcase his talent on a regular basis, SpeCial has shown a disconcerting tendency to freeze at inopportune times. SpeCial bombed out in Montreal right after giving Stats everything he could handle at GSL vs The World. He tore through the opening weekend of the WCS Global Finals, toppling presumed favorites Stats and TY with ease, and continued his run into the semifinals, just to get routed by soO as if he didn’t belong on the same stage. His recent history resembled a roller coaster more than a steady upwards slope. SpeCial didn’t reach a single finals in 2017 and failed to qualify for GSL Season 1 2018. He bounced back with a strong showing at Leipzig, though it came to an abrupt end at Serral’s hands. He reached the semifinals again at IEM Pyeongchang, stumbling for the second time at that stage in a matter of week, this time to sOs.
Such dismay is, counterintuitively, a step forward for him. For someone who had done so little for so long, it is a tremendous sign of respect that people remark on how SpeCial isn’t living up to expectations. We all know SpeCial is (pun intended) special. He has catapulted himself to the elite tier of competition, a laughable proposition only a few years beforehand. After a huge leap forward in 2017, the Mexican Terran has shown he can hang with the very best in the world. He is only missing the consistency required of a champion. With IEM Katowice coming up, SpeCial is one of the most promising international talents to look out for. The task before him is to convert on that promise and become what so many thought he should, but never would be.
Awesome article! So excited to see Scarlett doing this well, beating sOs is no small feat. Honestly everyone staying at the foreigner teamhouse in Korea seems to be doing incredibly well lately, whatever they're spiking the juice with there seems to be working.
I just checked out the open brackets... Bracket 4 is absolutely insane, 8 koreans and neeb (plus Kas, TLO, SortOf, and Harstem).
Scarlett's Bracket (bracket 2) isn't much easier though. Bracket 3 is exciting and the best chance for foreigners to qualify, Bracket 1 doesn't have any good foreigners.
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then, the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though.
Sharp words that somewhat reduce foreigner achievements but none the less true.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then, the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though.
Though sadly there's no new blood in KR and the current generation is slowly getting old and/or have to join military. It will be only a matter of time until the skill-level has lowered enough that foreigners can compete. That is if there will still be tournaments in the upcoming years..
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but not an excuse to abandon reason. Enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though.
The way qualifiers were organized gave Koreans almost automatically 7-9 spots in round of 24 (only Elazer managed to take one away from them and potentially Neeb or Special could have taken another).. The offline qualifiers will give them another 9-10 spots at least. So when the proper tournaments starts we will have 4-6 foreigners facing about 18 Koreans. The odds are against foreigners in Katowice but then again anything may happen.
A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but not an excuse to abandon reason. Enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though.
The way qualifiers were organized gave Koreans almost automatically 7-9 spots in round of 24 (only Elazer managed to take one away from them and potentially Neeb or Special could have taken another).. The offline qualifiers will give them another 9-10 spots at least. So when the proper tournaments starts we will have 4-6 foreigners facing about 18 Koreans. The odds are against foreigners in Katowice but then again anything may happen.
? the qualifiers were open. Everyone had an equal chance to qualify. If there are more koreans in the tournament it's because they are better players and managed to eliminate the foreigners beforehand.
? the qualifiers were open. Everyone had an equal chance to qualify. If there are more koreans in the tournament it's because they are better players and managed to eliminate the foreigners beforehand.
Lets be serious. it is not possible for foreign players to play on Korean server. - That's why 6 spots went to Korea. The US server is ok only for NA players, but they didn't really bother. So qualifiers only theoretically offered equal opportunity, in fact they guaranteed more spots for Koreans in final stages of the tournament..
? the qualifiers were open. Everyone had an equal chance to qualify. If there are more koreans in the tournament it's because they are better players and managed to eliminate the foreigners beforehand.
Lets be serious. it is not possible for foreign players to play on Korean server. - That's why 6 spots went to Korea. The US server is ok only for NA players, but they didn't really bother. So qualifiers only theoretically offered equal opportunity, in fact they guaranteed more spots for Koreans in final stages of the tournament..
US server is pretty equal (and playable) for Koreans and Europeans. And sure while the way the qualifiers are set up might essentially guarantee 6 Koreans, 3 Europeans and 3 spots up for grabs, the open brackets being in Katowice does give greater ease of participation for Europeans.
The only people would really have grounds to complain about this system are North Americans, and most of the good ones had other circumstances beyond the qualifier system itself anyways.
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but not an excuse to abandon reason. Enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though.
The way qualifiers were organized gave Koreans almost automatically 7-9 spots in round of 24 (only Elazer managed to take one away from them and potentially Neeb or Special could have taken another).. The offline qualifiers will give them another 9-10 spots at least. So when the proper tournaments starts we will have 4-6 foreigners facing about 18 Koreans. The odds are against foreigners in Katowice but then again anything may happen.
? the qualifiers were open. Everyone had an equal chance to qualify. If there are more koreans in the tournament it's because they are better players and managed to eliminate the foreigners beforehand.
There were 2 qualifiers held on the Korean server. The ping from Europe to Korea is considered pretty much unplayable which is why no Koreans qualified on the European qualifier. If IEM wanted the qualifiers to be fair they would have held the extra qualifier on the server that has the best ping for everyone worldwide which is NA. The NA qualifier was also scheduled at a time when Neeb and Kelazhur were flying to Leipzig so there are many ways in which the Koreans got favorable treatment in these qualifers at the expense of non-Korean pros.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements just to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
So why not just think of overhyping recent champions as a meme?
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though.
Sharp words that somewhat reduce foreigner achievements but none the less true.
I can't tell if that's a compliment or not, but thanks anyway.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
So why not just think of overhyping recent champions as a meme?
No gloriously high-res pics with BIG BOLD WHITE TEXT.
The banner of this article is kinda interesting since the article is about these players... mostly. Elazer and Nerchio aren't present and Snute only mentioned in passing. Especially surprising since Nerchio and Elazer are already in the groups--though they'll probably be in the other parts of the article.
The banner of this article is kinda interesting since the article is about these players... mostly. Elazer and Nerchio aren't present and Snute only mentioned in passing. Especially surprising since Nerchio and Elazer are already in the groups--though they'll probably be in the other parts of the article.
Nerchio and Elazer will be playing at home in Katowice, so they will destroy all Koreans. No need to give it away in the first part of the article.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
On February 09 2018 08:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The banner of this article is kinda interesting since the article is about these players... mostly. Elazer and Nerchio aren't present and Snute only mentioned in passing. Especially surprising since Nerchio and Elazer are already in the groups--though they'll probably be in the other parts of the article.
Yeah I'd guess the banner is the same for both parts.
Bracket 3: Zest, Special and Snute Greatest upset potential: Jjakji and Billowy
Bracket 4: soO, Trap and Neeb. Greatest upset potential: Patience, ByuN and Losira
I know I really believe in the foreigners here, but I just do, really hoping Scarlett can take down Solar because then I think she's really likely to go through.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through.
Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer.
Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some basis in primal instinct behind it (not endorsing racism ofc).
But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through.
Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer.
Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some primal instinct behind it (not an endorsement of racism).
But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
You're just mad your country didn't win Olympic Starcraft :p
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through.
Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer.
Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some basis in primal instinct behind it (not endorsing racism ofc).
But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
I agree with you mostly but I also feel the need to point out that the need to feel a tribal sense of belonging to "something"that you identity yourself as a part of is a primal instict as well as t to feel pride at the success of ones own tribe/family or similar. Doesn't make it less bad and illogical, still it is primal.
Personally I feel inclined to cheer for players that come from my country, I feel I have more in common with them than others even if I myself have a hard time to narrow that feeling down to what exactly that means. However to cheer especially hard for people close by like a person from your city/family/old classmate and so on is in my view normal, nationalism is that taken to the extreme.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through.
Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer.
Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some primal instinct behind it (not an endorsement of racism).
But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
You're just mad your country didn't win Olympic Starcraft :p
And only now do I notice that it's the Canadian who responded.....
*ahem*
"Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through.
Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer.
Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some primal instinct behind it (not an endorsement of racism).
But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
You're just mad your country didn't win Olympic Starcraft :p
And only now do I notice that it's the Canadian who responded.....
*ahem*
"Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
My contribution is informing you that you in fact are probably just mad.
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through.
Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer.
Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some basis in primal instinct behind it (not endorsing racism ofc).
But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
I agree with you mostly but I also feel the need to point out that the need to feel a tribal sense of belonging to "something"that you identity yourself as a part of is a primal instict as well as t to feel pride at the success of ones own tribe/family or similar. Doesn't make it less bad and illogical, still it is primal.
Personally I feel inclined to cheer for players that come from my country, I feel I have more in common with them than others even if I myself have a hard time to narrow that feeling down to what exactly that means. However to cheer especially hard for people close by like a person from your city/family/old classmate and so on is in my view normal, nationalism is that taken to the extreme.
Yes, I do recognize the foundation of tribalism inherent in nationalism. I like that you said "nationalism is that taken to the extreme," because while it makes perfect evolutionary sense to cheer for friends/family/etc, nationalism has people cheering for people they do not know and will never meet.
Nationalism has people dying for leaders who will never even realize they existed in the first place, in order to kill other people who were sentenced to die for the crime of living some arbitrary distance away–despite in many cases sharing ties of blood/race/religion/any other kind of human bond. And that level of nationalism is universal to every country in the world, tragically enough.
And that all happens when nationalism is still used honestly, don't get me started on demagoguery.
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but not an excuse to abandon reason. Enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though.
The way qualifiers were organized gave Koreans almost automatically 7-9 spots in round of 24 (only Elazer managed to take one away from them and potentially Neeb or Special could have taken another).. The offline qualifiers will give them another 9-10 spots at least. So when the proper tournaments starts we will have 4-6 foreigners facing about 18 Koreans. The odds are against foreigners in Katowice but then again anything may happen.
No, the qualifiers were open to anyone. Both the open bracket and server qualifiers. The only "guranteed" spots were for foreigners via the EU server, because it's impossible for koreans to win there. All the other foreigners/koreans could play fine on both KR and NA.
(and before you say EU players have less chances, it's much easier for them to sign up to the open bracket so it's fair in that sense)
It's not 18 koreans vs 4-6 foreigners. Every single korean and foreigner entered the event. If more koreans end up in the tournament it's because they beat others to get there. In which case the numbers are representative of skill
On February 09 2018 06:35 Kalera wrote: A nice overview of some of the foreign scene. Looking forward to future installments.
On February 09 2018 05:35 pvsnp wrote: Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
Distateful of the players because their fans go overboard for a bit? Seems a bit petty. People getting hyped and excited about players indicates the game still has a thriving fanbase. If there wasn't a passionate reaction to a long time presence winning their first Premier tournament with a strong run capped by a surprising upset, well... that would indicate that SC2's time was truly passing.
Call me petty if you like, but it gets annoying when r/starcraft turns into r/scarlett for several days on end. I saw it live, I don't need a dozen threads to tell me what I already know. Especially since anyone else would get one or two at most.
I understand that many fans have been waiting for a long time so I didn't mind at all initially. In fact, I was thinking exactly what you said, that such an enthusiastic reaction is a good sign from the community. But listening to fans rave on and on gets old fast, and this is the most overblown reaction to any tournament I've ever seen in SC2.
And that's just the celebration, not even the massive overhype. Yes, it's great Scarlett won a big tournament. No, she is not suddenly the greatest foreigner, the best player, or a gold medalist. No, just because a tournament is held within South Korea does not make it the GSL.
If you have to embellish and exaggerate Scarlett's achievements to be happy, then you aren't cheering for Scarlett the player, but rather some idealized version of what you want Scarlett to be. And if you vilify anyone who dares disagree with your fantasy, that is the exact opposite of helping the SC2 scene.
It's kinda odd that you randomly find this annoying, and not all the ByuN clips, or two gate memes or whatever. Overhyping and exaggerated reactions trending are par for the course.
Before this, I thought Byun and Neeb fans were the worst for exactly that reason.
I was plenty annoyed about the overhype around Byun and Neeb in 2016, but I also wasn't active on the forums at that time, or else you'd have seen a similar post.
Memes are memes, I love memes.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough. I also don't think many non-canadians think Scarlett is suddenly the foreigner GOAT and will win GSL. You are making it a bigger issue than it is, even bringing it to this thread.
Also I really don't understand why you start disliking the players because their fans are annoying. Nothing they can do about it. Just think to yourself "this guy is an idiot" and move on, it's really no big deal.
Coverage wise it's normal that reddit is flooded with this stuff right now. It's just a fact that there is 10x more coverage of IEM PeyongChang than any other sc2 tournament in recent years. From Spiegel to TIME magazine, papers that usually would ignore sc2 are covering this because of Olympia and Scarlett. So if there is 10 times more media coverage, there will be 10 times more reddit "spam".
You are absolutely right. Sorry about the tone, I was just arguing with some rabid Scarlett fans over on reddit and my exasperation bled through.
Oh, I don't dislike the players at all, it's just that some of their fans are obnoxious to the extreme. Obviously, the players can't control what their fanbase does, but I wind up hoping they'll lose just to avoid those obnoxious fans. Like I used to be a big Neeb fan, and I still like the guy himself, but these days I outright cheer against him because Neeb fanboys are cancer.
Canadians and Scarlett? I hadn't really made the connection until you pointed it out. Nationalism in general is something I find extremely annoying (not to mention outright dangerous at times). My reaction tends to be: "Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
Oscar Wilde put it better, though: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
Or Einstein: "Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Hell, even racism makes more sense than nationalism. At least there's some primal instinct behind it (not an endorsement of racism).
But I digress. Nationalism is a thing of gestalt and geopolitics. Applying nationalism to SC2, of all things, strikes me as downright laughable.
You're just mad your country didn't win Olympic Starcraft :p
And only now do I notice that it's the Canadian who responded.....
*ahem*
"Yes, your country is great. And what is your contribution to that greatness? Or are you just trying to steal some glory because you don't have any of your own?"
My contribution is informing you that you in fact are probably just mad.
Truly, Canada is blessed to have such a valiant champion.
Meh, I've gone from ambivalence to distaste on foreigners in general after the lethal overdose of Scarlett hype. Some people are getting way ahead of themselves. Celebrating foreign achievements is great, but not an excuse to abandon reason. Enthusiasm is not a substitute for sanity.
If the foreigners do well at Katowice, against a full field of top Koreans, then I will be convinced. Upsets have happened for years, but consistent success against top Koreans never has. Until then the hype is premature at best and deluded at worst.
Good writing, though.
The way qualifiers were organized gave Koreans almost automatically 7-9 spots in round of 24 (only Elazer managed to take one away from them and potentially Neeb or Special could have taken another).. The offline qualifiers will give them another 9-10 spots at least. So when the proper tournaments starts we will have 4-6 foreigners facing about 18 Koreans. The odds are against foreigners in Katowice but then again anything may happen.
No, the qualifiers were open to anyone. Both the open bracket and server qualifiers. The only "guranteed" spots were for foreigners via the EU server, because it's impossible for koreans to win there. All the other foreigners/koreans could play fine on both KR and NA.
(and before you say EU players have less chances, it's much easier for them to sign up to the open bracket so it's fair in that sense)
It's not 18 koreans vs 4-6 foreigners. Every single korean and foreigner entered the event. If more koreans end up in the tournament it's because they beat others to get there. In which case the numbers are representative of skill
That's one of the reasons why Katowice is my favorite tournament.
? the qualifiers were open. Everyone had an equal chance to qualify. If there are more koreans in the tournament it's because they are better players and managed to eliminate the foreigners beforehand.
Lets be serious. it is not possible for foreign players to play on Korean server. - That's why 6 spots went to Korea. The US server is ok only for NA players, but they didn't really bother. So qualifiers only theoretically offered equal opportunity, in fact they guaranteed more spots for Koreans in final stages of the tournament..
Katowice is the best representative of skill out of any event.
NA players had easy access to all the qualifiers, KR players had access to 3/4, EU players had 2/4. But at the same time the open bracket (which is as big as all server qualifiers combined) is dominated by EU players. So if the tournament ends up being korean dominated, it's because they're better. Not because the server's guaranteed them most of the places.
"it is not possible for foreign players to play on Korean server". Most of the top foreigners live in either NA or KR so ping isn't an issue. If they fail to qualify it's because they aren't good enough.
Korea gets more spots by default. That is the truth and now way around it. Whatever you argue that's how the qualifiers are set. Obviously they have more chance to win. But they will not.
On February 09 2018 05:28 TheDougler wrote: I just checked out the open brackets... Bracket 4 is absolutely insane, 8 koreans and neeb (plus Kas, TLO, SortOf, and Harstem).
Scarlett's Bracket (bracket 2) isn't much easier though. Bracket 3 is exciting and the best chance for foreigners to qualify, Bracket 1 doesn't have any good foreigners.
On February 09 2018 10:08 Kafka777 wrote: Korea gets more spots by default. That is the truth and now way around it. Whatever you argue that's how the qualifiers are set. Obviously they have more chance to win. But they will not.
On February 09 2018 17:27 EEk1TwEEk wrote: Top 4 at best. No way will the foreigners win IEM Kato
Top 4 is on the optimistic (for foreign fans) side of things all things considered. Last year the best non-Korean performers were Serral in the top 8 and Nerchio in the top 12, and the Korean contingent was significantly smaller in number.
On February 09 2018 10:08 Kafka777 wrote: Korea gets more spots by default. That is the truth and now way around it. Whatever you argue that's how the qualifiers are set. Obviously they have more chance to win. But they will not.
Did you read anything that the guy above you said? The qualifier system is as fair as it can be. Koreans don't have it easier. Repeating the opposite without any arguments doesn't make your opinion true. But... you are the guy that said koreans will have trouble keeping their GSL trophies this year so I shouldn't expect too much.
Korea gets more spots by default. That is the truth and now way around it. Whatever you argue that's how the qualifiers are set. Obviously they have more chance to win. But they will not.
Seems like this too hyped foreign fan boi still doesn't get the meaning of 'region lock'
But sorry snowflake, since every single players in the world can participate all 3 servers (NA/EU/ASIA), it is absolutely fair to every pros in the world. If they can't qualify, then that means they are simply not good enough and that's all.
I think you are overreacting though, just ignore the stuff you don't like, it will end soon enough.
Ah yess the good old "well have you tried not being annoyed by the things that you find annoying, even though they happen to be pushed in your face constantly on some of the websites and communities that you like to peruse"?
Good idea, how did I never think of that. I'll just not be annoyed by things that annoy me. Thanks Musicus!
hard to call it but I remember how bad the foreigners played at Katowice last year Korean seems to prepare really hard for Katowice because of its prestige and prize pool
and since our last two champions in 2018 are zerg, I hope foreigners could clear up the path for soO to win it
Did you read anything that the guy above you said? The qualifier system is as fair as it can be. Koreans don't have it easier. Repeating the opposite without any arguments doesn't make your opinion true. But... you are the guy that said koreans will have trouble keeping their GSL trophies this year so I shouldn't expect too much.
I read what he wrote and the same argument was used earlier in this thread. I wish you and him would also read as the answer was already provided earlier. There were 2 qualifiers for Korean players on the Korean server. The qualifiers on NA was made during travel time to WCS Leipzig (eg. Neeb) and in the middle of the night for EU and essentially also travel time to WCS Leipzig (Elazer managed to get a spot but didn't get any sleep before arriving in Leipzig). In this way Koreans were almost guaranteed 7-9 spots in final rounds.
Did you read anything that the guy above you said? The qualifier system is as fair as it can be. Koreans don't have it easier. Repeating the opposite without any arguments doesn't make your opinion true. But... you are the guy that said koreans will have trouble keeping their GSL trophies this year so I shouldn't expect too much.
I read what he wrote and the same argument was used earlier in this thread. I wish you and him would also read as the answer was already provided earlier. There were 2 qualifiers for Korean players on the Korean server. The qualifiers on NA was made during travel time to WCS Leipzig (eg. Neeb) and in the middle of the night for EU and essentially also travel time to WCS Leipzig (Elazer managed to get a spot but didn't get any sleep before arriving in Leipzig). In this way Koreans were almost guaranteed 7-9 spots in final rounds.
Katowice is one of the only tournamants we have were everyone has a good chance. Stop trying to create the narrative that koreans were handed more places so when foreigners get destroyed you can have an excuse.
Every player had the chance to qualify via at least 2-3 of the servers. Some times given were inconvienient because of wcs, but most foreigners still tried every time, so stop acting like it was impossible for them to.
-NA based players had a decent chance on any of the 4 server qualifiers. The sceduling of one those was awkward sure, but they still had access to the rest -EU based players were fine on 2/4 server qualifiers (EU/NA), but they also have easy access to the open bracket (which is over half the tournament and already dominated by european playes if you didn't already know). -KR based players had access to 3 of the server qualifiers (KR/NA) and the open bracket if they're willing to pay a lot of money to go
edit: and you think it's impossible for foreigners to win the korean qualifiers? You realise that's because they aren't good enough right? Most of them live in either korea or the americas there's no time or ping issue
Did you read anything that the guy above you said? The qualifier system is as fair as it can be. Koreans don't have it easier. Repeating the opposite without any arguments doesn't make your opinion true. But... you are the guy that said koreans will have trouble keeping their GSL trophies this year so I shouldn't expect too much.
I read what he wrote and the same argument was used earlier in this thread. I wish you and him would also read as the answer was already provided earlier. There were 2 qualifiers for Korean players on the Korean server. The qualifiers on NA was made during travel time to WCS Leipzig (eg. Neeb) and in the middle of the night for EU and essentially also travel time to WCS Leipzig (Elazer managed to get a spot but didn't get any sleep before arriving in Leipzig). In this way Koreans were almost guaranteed 7-9 spots in final rounds.
Katowice is one of the only tournamants we have were everyone has a good chance. Stop trying to create the narrative that koreans were handed more places so when foreigners get destroyed you can have an excuse.
Every player had the chance to qualify via at least 2-3 of the servers. Some times given were inconvienient because of wcs, but most foreigners still tried every time, so stop acting like it was impossible for them to.
-NA based players had a decent chance on any of the 4 server qualifiers. The sceduling of one those was awkward sure, but they still had access to the rest -EU based players were fine on 2/4 server qualifiers (EU/NA), but they also have easy access to the open bracket (which is over half the tournament and already dominated by european playes if you didn't already know). -KR based players had access to 3 of the server qualifiers (KR/NA) and the open bracket if they're willing to pay a lot of money to go
edit: and you think it's impossible for foreigners to win the korean qualifiers? You realise that's because they aren't good enough right? Most of them live in either korea or the americas there's no time or ping issue
3 slots for the European server qualifier. -> Optimal for EU players 3 slots for the American server qualifier. -> Optimal for NA players 5 slots for the Korean server qualifiers (3 + 2). -> Optimal for KR players
It really is that easy. Count to 3 and then count to 5. Use your fingers if you have to. Please stop any silly efforts of trying to say that 5 = 3, it creates unnecessary migraine.
Did you read anything that the guy above you said? The qualifier system is as fair as it can be. Koreans don't have it easier. Repeating the opposite without any arguments doesn't make your opinion true. But... you are the guy that said koreans will have trouble keeping their GSL trophies this year so I shouldn't expect too much.
I read what he wrote and the same argument was used earlier in this thread. I wish you and him would also read as the answer was already provided earlier. There were 2 qualifiers for Korean players on the Korean server. The qualifiers on NA was made during travel time to WCS Leipzig (eg. Neeb) and in the middle of the night for EU and essentially also travel time to WCS Leipzig (Elazer managed to get a spot but didn't get any sleep before arriving in Leipzig). In this way Koreans were almost guaranteed 7-9 spots in final rounds.
Katowice is one of the only tournamants we have were everyone has a good chance. Stop trying to create the narrative that koreans were handed more places so when foreigners get destroyed you can have an excuse.
Every player had the chance to qualify via at least 2-3 of the servers. Some times given were inconvienient because of wcs, but most foreigners still tried every time, so stop acting like it was impossible for them to.
-NA based players had a decent chance on any of the 4 server qualifiers. The sceduling of one those was awkward sure, but they still had access to the rest -EU based players were fine on 2/4 server qualifiers (EU/NA), but they also have easy access to the open bracket (which is over half the tournament and already dominated by european playes if you didn't already know). -KR based players had access to 3 of the server qualifiers (KR/NA) and the open bracket if they're willing to pay a lot of money to go
edit: and you think it's impossible for foreigners to win the korean qualifiers? You realise that's because they aren't good enough right? Most of them live in either korea or the americas there's no time or ping issue
3 slots for the European server qualifier. -> Optimal for EU players 3 slots for the American server qualifier. -> Optimal for NA players 5 slots for the Korean server qualifiers (3 + 2). -> Optimal for KR players
It really is that easy. Count to 3 and then count to 5. Use your fingers if you have to. Please stop any silly efforts of trying to say that 5 = 3, it creates unnecessary migraine.
You realise the discussion isn't NA vs EU vs KR right? It's about balance between the two regions of foreign and korean. If you're talking about supposed "optimal play", it's 5 spots against 6. So by your own flawed reasoning, the foreigners get it better.
And when I say your reasoning is flawed, it's because you don't take into account the qualifiers were open. NA players can play reasonably well on any server. KR and EU players are also fine on NA. And half the top foreigners live in korea or americas anyway.
On February 09 2018 05:28 TheDougler wrote: I just checked out the open brackets... Bracket 4 is absolutely insane, 8 koreans and neeb (plus Kas, TLO, SortOf, and Harstem).
Scarlett's Bracket (bracket 2) isn't much easier though. Bracket 3 is exciting and the best chance for foreigners to qualify, Bracket 1 doesn't have any good foreigners.
OP: Would be nice if the foreign players in form can show that they are no flash in the pan, or those waiting in wings will make a good showing but as a long time SC2 fan I've known from experience that it's rarely the case when Koreans and Koreingers are in the mix.
You realise the discussion isn't NA vs EU vs KR right? It's about balance between the two regions of foreign and korean. If you're talking about supposed "optimal play", it's 5 spots against 6. So by your own flawed reasoning, the foreigners get it better.
And when I say your reasoning is flawed, it's because you don't take into account the qualifiers were open. NA players can play reasonably well on any server. KR and EU players are also fine on NA. And half the top foreigners live in korea or americas anyway.
The reasoning is - Koreans were given 6 spots by default - 5 (ping)+1 invitation. Then they were given an extra 2-3 spots by organizing NA qualifiers at a time that no WCS players could play. Is this clear enough?
You realise the discussion isn't NA vs EU vs KR right? It's about balance between the two regions of foreign and korean. If you're talking about supposed "optimal play", it's 5 spots against 6. So by your own flawed reasoning, the foreigners get it better.
And when I say your reasoning is flawed, it's because you don't take into account the qualifiers were open. NA players can play reasonably well on any server. KR and EU players are also fine on NA. And half the top foreigners live in korea or americas anyway.
The reasoning is - Koreans were given 6 spots by default - 5 (ping)+1 invitation. Then they were given an extra 2-3 spots by organizing NA qualifiers at a time that no WCS players could play. Is this clear enough?
You still don't understand how open qualifiers work. There was no region locking. Koreans weren't given 5 spots default. Foreigners were welcome to play in the 2 KR server qualifiers as well, and most of them could play in the NA one, and even the EU one. Every player had good access to at least 2-3 of the qualifiers.
You're just making early excuses for when foreigners fall short at the event. Considering you're delusional enough to think foreigners will win GSL this year, that's not suprising.
You realise the discussion isn't NA vs EU vs KR right? It's about balance between the two regions of foreign and korean. If you're talking about supposed "optimal play", it's 5 spots against 6. So by your own flawed reasoning, the foreigners get it better.
And when I say your reasoning is flawed, it's because you don't take into account the qualifiers were open. NA players can play reasonably well on any server. KR and EU players are also fine on NA. And half the top foreigners live in korea or americas anyway.
In theory you are right. But the reality is you are completely wrong. Ping causes that Korean qualifiers may be open to 2-3 foreigners at most who are there at the given time. EU qualifiers indeed favour foreigners and they got their 3 spots. However NA qualiifiers were organized directly before Leipzig WCS and the WCS players could not realistically play due to travel considerations. It is nothing less than a miracle that Elazer got a spot.
You realise the discussion isn't NA vs EU vs KR right? It's about balance between the two regions of foreign and korean. If you're talking about supposed "optimal play", it's 5 spots against 6. So by your own flawed reasoning, the foreigners get it better.
And when I say your reasoning is flawed, it's because you don't take into account the qualifiers were open. NA players can play reasonably well on any server. KR and EU players are also fine on NA. And half the top foreigners live in korea or americas anyway.
In theory you are right. But the reality is you are completely wrong. Ping causes that Korean qualifiers may be open to 2-3 foreigners at most who are there at the given time. EU qualifiers indeed favour foreigners and they got their 3 spots. However NA qualiifiers were organized directly before Leipzig WCS and the WCS players could not realistically play due to travel considerations. It is nothing less than a miracle that Elazer got a spot.
you are just straight up wrong, will be fun after katowice when the koreans dumpster foreigners as usual
you are just straight up wrong, will be fun after katowice when the koreans dumpster foreigners as usual
You might be right that they will win, but they were given an unfair advantage in the first place. I will still believe non-korean players will win disregarding the odds.
you are just straight up wrong, will be fun after katowice when the koreans dumpster foreigners as usual
You might be right that they will win, but they were given an unfair advantage in the first place. I will still believe non-korean players will win disregarding the odds.
You are possibly the most delusional and ignorant user on this site. Foreigners will get stomped in literally the fairest event of the year and you will claim it's because of them getting "extra spots" in an open fucking qualifier. Beyond stupid
You might be right that they will win, but they were given an unfair advantage in the first place. I will still believe non-korean players will win disregarding the odds.
You are so right snowflake. And that's why during 5 years, foreigners won only 2 premier offline tournaments(Neeb, Scarlett) against Koreans after Kespa era.
You might be right that they will win, but they were given an unfair advantage in the first place. I will still believe non-korean players will win disregarding the odds.
And especially during nations war, it was really unfair for koreans to play with much worse ping to play in central NA server vs EU/NA teams. And their time was 4AM-7AM. And still KR managed to win the Nations War despite of disadvantage.
The one western tournament where koreans aren't banned and people are complaining that they were given an unfair advantage due to the open qualifiers, seriously?
You realise the discussion isn't NA vs EU vs KR right? It's about balance between the two regions of foreign and korean. If you're talking about supposed "optimal play", it's 5 spots against 6. So by your own flawed reasoning, the foreigners get it better.
And when I say your reasoning is flawed, it's because you don't take into account the qualifiers were open. NA players can play reasonably well on any server. KR and EU players are also fine on NA. And half the top foreigners live in korea or americas anyway.
The reasoning is - Koreans were given 6 spots by default - 5 (ping)+1 invitation. Then they were given an extra 2-3 spots by organizing NA qualifiers at a time that no WCS players could play. Is this clear enough?
Last time I checked Elazer was a WCS player. How did he qualify without being able to participate in the qualifier?
EPT
Written by Mizenhauer ![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/bird_blue_16.png)
Serral stood victorious as he supplanted three time WCS champion 
Neeb to become king of the foreigner scene. However, he did not have long to rest on his laurels. Two weeks later, perennial fan favorite 
uThermal. The Dutch Terran’s career has begged us to consider if flashes of high level play can overshadow a dearth of results. For two months in 2016 he escaped the monkey’s paw that accosts all international Terran players. It would have been easy to dismiss his Top 4 finish at Dreamhack Leipzig as luck, the product of a metagame in upheaval. Naysayers would not have such an easy time come July, when uThermal took the next step by winning IEM Shanghai. He lost to Neeb in a rematch of that final in the semifinals of the WCS Copa Intercontinental, but at that point he was established as the elite foreign Terran.
IEM Season XII - World Championship
