EPTWe saw so little drop disru so far, nobody has tried the concept a bit far, nobody has the need to adapt to it, yet BAM nerfhammer. 1 sec + cd will just kill the unit, at least they should make the nova still explose once it launch even if the disru is killed.. better was to not make a such delay but...
Community Update - December Balance Changes - Page 9
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Kenny_mk1
31 Posts
We saw so little drop disru so far, nobody has tried the concept a bit far, nobody has the need to adapt to it, yet BAM nerfhammer. 1 sec + cd will just kill the unit, at least they should make the nova still explose once it launch even if the disru is killed.. better was to not make a such delay but... | ||
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Xamo
Spain883 Posts
On December 08 2017 22:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: This balance designer overdoes things. Triple infestor nerf. Now Protoss being nerfed x3. Terran just got ghosts buffed a while ago - now protoss is getting their strenght tuned down and still widow mines are changed as well? Constantly things are going too far in one direction. I completely agree with this. The chrono nerf was the only one required for Protoss right now. The others should wait until the meta settles down again. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16033 Posts
On December 09 2017 14:14 washikie wrote: The problem with the oracle is that it was busted before they nerfed it but now it's kind of trash because it comes out to late. They need to find a happy medium where Terran can hold dumb allins but Protoss can still do harassment and have interesting interaction with the Terran player. -Interesting interactions -Oracles Choose one | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On December 09 2017 20:46 xelnaga_empire wrote: The chronoboost nerf isn't enough. They need to nerf stalkers along with it for it to be balanced. says who | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On December 09 2017 19:08 Xamo wrote: I completely agree with this. The chrono nerf was the only one required for Protoss right now. The others should wait until the meta settles down again. Disagree, Stalkers were overpowered vs. Marines and Chrono was overpowered in general, both nerfs are highly appropriate for the state of the game, Protoss is very strong right now vs. Terran and these balance changes clearly are targeted to giving Terrans some breathing room in the early game against Protoss openings. And as for the triple Infestor nerf, they were only nerfed after they were buffed. Even post triple nerfs Infestors are still superior to their pre patch 4.0 brethren, they were triple nerfed because they were highly oppressive to play against and I say this as a Zerg player that was coming up on easy mode wins against Terrans with burrow fungal. | ||
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Yamaeda
Sweden13 Posts
I think the stalker will become very underused with this change as it's close to the original one. I guess time will tell. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
On December 08 2017 22:04 Liquid`Ret wrote: This balance designer overdoes things. Triple infestor nerf. Now Protoss being nerfed x3. Terran just got ghosts buffed a while ago - now protoss is getting their strenght tuned down and still widow mines are changed as well? Constantly things are going too far in one direction. Totally agree. As simple as that. This "big patch" is being handle so so bad. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On December 09 2017 19:02 Kenny_mk1 wrote: And they plan to nerf disruptor into the ground great.... I lol'd | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On December 09 2017 19:08 Xamo wrote: I completely agree with this. The chrono nerf was the only one required for Protoss right now. The others should wait until the meta settles down again. what meta? mass stalker early into mid every game tvp? lol | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On December 10 2017 06:32 StarscreamG1 wrote: Totally agree. As simple as that. This "big patch" is being handle so so bad. They did the exact same thing last year. The problem is practically the only thing Blizzzard cares about in terms of balance is the professional scene which doesn't bother to really start practicing on it till everything is basically set. Blizzard could and should give a streamer or community organizer a few grand to put on weekly balance test tournaments after the last WCS event and the WCS Global Finals. That wouldn't solve all issues but it would hopefully solve a number of ones which the plebeians note but Blizzard refuses to fix until the pros point out the exact same thing. | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On December 10 2017 07:56 Boggyb wrote: They did the exact same thing last year. The problem is practically the only thing Blizzzard cares about in terms of balance is the professional scene which doesn't bother to really start practicing on it till everything is basically set. Blizzard could and should give a streamer or community organizer a few grand to put on weekly balance test tournaments after the last WCS event and the WCS Global Finals. That wouldn't solve all issues but it would hopefully solve a number of ones which the plebeians note but Blizzard refuses to fix until the pros point out the exact same thing. while you right on most of your points, I think there is a few things to be noted. The new balance team finally talks about the big patches being "game design patches" not balance patches. For example, most people are happy they killed mass oracle, the mothership core, and mass raven. These were changes to improve the game, not the balance. For example the mine being revealed nerf is an amazing change for casual players, though it nerfs the widow mine. However, their balance changes are still overdone. It is so, so stupid for them to overnerf protoss in PvT when PvZ has the SAME winrate problems that terran's has in PvT, from what we can see yet people won't talk about that. In PvZ I would already secure taking my third with a mothership, or map control with oracles, but with two huge nerfs (oracles and removal of the momma core) and the stalker/shieldbattery combo being nerfed (stalker damage down again, shield battery cost up) those midgame attacks by zerg are going to be scarier than ever. After these changes I am just gonna two base allin unless if I learn a build soon that works. | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On December 09 2017 19:08 Xamo wrote: I completely agree with this. The chrono nerf was the only one required for Protoss right now. The others should wait until the meta settles down again. Agreed | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On December 09 2017 11:58 curufinwe_wins wrote: What the fuck are you guys thinking about widowmines? The issue is and has ALWAYS been that any other harass that requires detection to deal with hits WAY later than widow mines can. Making proxy widow mines hit even faster is just stupid. And yes... now you don't need detection to keep them from hitting again. But widowmines still are ludicrously oppressive for such a fast and low investment drop in lower leagues vs both p and z, with even one set of shots from a drop being effectively instant wins. Yes, I'd say this is exactly the wrong way to buff widow mines. They can already be reactored and require very little teching to get. Making them build faster would be an awful change. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On December 10 2017 08:29 youngjiddle wrote: In PvZ I would already secure taking my third with a mothership, or map control with oracles, but with two huge nerfs (oracles and removal of the momma core) and the stalker/shieldbattery combo being nerfed (stalker damage down again, shield battery cost up) those midgame attacks by zerg are going to be scarier than ever. After these changes I am just gonna two base allin unless if I learn a build soon that works. Just to touch on the Shield batteries, they only cost 25 minerals more. You can put other units with the SBs other than just stalkers. For the cost of two cannons, you can put down three shield batteries. They are still really, really strong when you use them correctly. | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On December 10 2017 09:42 FrkFrJss wrote: Just to touch on the Shield batteries, they only cost 25 minerals more. You can put other units with the SBs other than just stalkers. For the cost of two cannons, you can put down three shield batteries. They are still really, really strong when you use them correctly. I don't disagree, shield batteries are strong. But I am making a comparison based on current winrates (with the current shield battery cost), and the fact that the winrate could get worse than how bad they are right now with a direct nerf to them. Another thing, shield batteries are not as helpful vs. crazy burst damage like the baneling. Ling/bane/hydra was already a problem for protoss players when taking a third throughout the end of the year, arguably causing the mass oracle meta and oracle opening meta (which is now nerfed also). | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On December 10 2017 09:55 youngjiddle wrote: I don't disagree, shield batteries are strong. But I am making a comparison based on current winrates (with the current shield battery cost), and the fact that the winrate could get worse than how bad they are right now with a direct nerf to them. Another thing, shield batteries are not as helpful vs. crazy burst damage like the baneling. Ling/bane/hydra was already a problem for protoss players when taking a third throughout the end of the year, arguably causing the mass oracle meta and oracle opening meta (which is now nerfed also). For sure, I definitely agree with that. I do think, though, that as meta actually settles, I think people will get used to the new changes of this patch and the potential next patch. Ultimately, a 45% winrate for Protoss isn't terrible. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On December 10 2017 10:13 FrkFrJss wrote: For sure, I definitely agree with that. I do think, though, that as meta actually settles, I think people will get used to the new changes of this patch and the potential next patch. Ultimately, a 45% winrate for Protoss isn't terrible. If the sky is falling when Protoss have a 55% win rate, it is falling when they have a 45% win rate. | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On December 10 2017 12:15 Boggyb wrote: If the sky is falling when Protoss have a 55% win rate, it is falling when they have a 45% win rate. that's not how the sc2 community works. | ||
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