EPTStarCraft II Multiplayer - Major Design Changes - Page 40
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16765 Posts
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AkashSky
United States257 Posts
On October 07 2017 02:44 PinoKotsBeer wrote: Its just stupid, rewarding f2 players. the locked mode/siege mode is "okay" for lower league players etc but ADDING 25% extra vision is just double the reward for playing with F2. locked mode should reduce 25% vision and it will be acceptable. At first, I had your same line of thought, that this change was ridiculous. But then I started playing and the 25% extra vision is REALLY nice. It makes it so that you need 1 less observer for a full wall of vision on most maps - which is pretty massive considering robo build time is usually a scarcity. Maybe have observer have 25% more vision in normal mode, and then decrease to 25% when in static mode (so as it currently is). | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
On October 07 2017 04:15 opisska wrote: Making it easy to f2 makes no change at pro level and immense convenience for noobs. The onpy reason anyone is complaining about it is that they derive their ego from beating bad players at videogames. Please take a moment to reconsider if that is a good motivation. Units autoqueueing in production makes no change at the pro level and an immense convenience for noobs. The only reason anyone is complaining about it is that they derive their ego from beating bad players at videogames. Please take a moment to reconsider if that is a good motivation. You can invert your argument in a hundred ways. Units attack-moving from a rally instead of move-commanding makes no change at the pro level an an immense convenience for noobs. The only reason anyone is complaining about it is that they derive their ego from beating bad players at videogames. Please take a moment to reconsider if that is a good motivation. | ||
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Trizz
Netherlands1318 Posts
Viper Parasitic Bomb’s damage felt a bit too high to properly counter. The Parasitic Bomb damage will be reduced from 180 to 120 to open up opportunities to recover for the defending player. zerg is FINISHED. all you have to do is turtle to mass air and you auto win. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15973 Posts
On October 07 2017 04:15 opisska wrote: Making it easy to f2 makes no change at pro level and immense convenience for noobs. The onpy reason anyone is complaining about it is that they derive their ego from beating bad players at videogames. Please take a moment to reconsider if that is a good motivation. Overseer and Obs changes don't affect pro level sure. But the HT change will make an impact at every level of play, even at pro level I sometimes see HTs walking to their death without doing anything. I hate this change because the HT is one of those units that is hard to use but can be extremely strong in the hands of a good player. Significantly lowering the skill-cap of this unit makes the unit much less interesting imo. The change is kinda similar to an auto-split button for marines imo. Also a unit that is hard to control but becomes significantly stronger in the hands of a good player. | ||
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Zulu23
Germany132 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On October 07 2017 05:49 Charoisaur wrote: Overseer and Obs changes don't affect pro level sure. But the HT change will make an impact at every level of play, even at pro level I sometimes see HTs walking to their death without doing anything. I hate this change because the HT is one of those units that is hard to use but can be extremely strong in the hands of a good player. Significantly lowering the skill-cap of this unit makes the unit much less interesting imo. The change is kinda similar to an auto-split button for marines imo. Also a unit that is hard to control but becomes significantly stronger in the hands of a good player. I've seen F2 observers at pro level. F2 overseers probably happen too. Hotkeying units also affects every player, why do people think that making army management easier makes the game easier? Starcraft is supposed to be hard. I want to beat my opponents with macro, micro and mutltasking. Not in a maxing out contest that ends with F2+A | ||
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Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
Making it easy to f2 makes no change at pro level and immense convenience for noobs. The onpy reason anyone is complaining about it is that they derive their ego from beating bad players at videogames. Please take a moment to reconsider if that is a good motivation. Units autoqueueing in production makes no change at the pro level and an immense convenience for noobs. The only reason anyone is complaining about it is that they derive their ego from beating bad players at videogames. Please take a moment to reconsider if that is a good motivation. Units attack-moving from a rally instead of move-commanding makes no change at the pro level an an immense convenience for noobs. The only reason anyone is complaining about it is that they derive their ego from beating bad players at videogames. Please take a moment to reconsider if that is a good motivation. All those should be in the game. It would make the game better overall and more fun. The only skill required to play the game should be the one that can not be automated away. | ||
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Creager
Germany1900 Posts
On October 07 2017 07:25 Haukinger wrote: All those should be in the game. It would make the game better overall and more fun. The only skill required to play the game should be the one that can not be automated away. But overall StarCraft consists of all those small tasks and things you have to memorize, if you can't enjoy that and don't want to improve, maybe you should play something else. There's even a plethora of other game modes available, like campaign or co-op, all catering towards the more casual audience. I love to find out little things and use them to gain a small edge over my opponent, additionally having some uncertain factors also can lead to an exciting playing experience. If you don't remember, there was a time when you didn't see your worker count on your main building but had to box/count them to see if there's 16 of them at each expansion. Or scan having no borders, so sometimes you did not know 100% if he scouted your crucial tech building you were trying to hide or not. All that kind of stuff enables players to differentiate themselves from others, if you remove it, you're not only rewarding inexperienced players but also making the game boring. Day9 brilliantly explained the concept of StarCraft in one of his new show's early episodes: It's a game of constant crisis management, as soon as you're in the game there's going stuff wrong all the time for everyone. HT auto attack and stationary Observers/Overseers with increased vision radius are changes noone asked for, I don't like pampering new/bad players, as I said, there are enough more casual game modes available, if people are willing to improve at the game, they can certainly improve their unit control, as well. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15973 Posts
On October 07 2017 07:00 Ej_ wrote: I've seen F2 observers at pro level. F2 overseers probably happen too. Hotkeying units also affects every player, why do people think that making army management easier makes the game easier? Starcraft is supposed to be hard. I want to beat my opponents with macro, micro and mutltasking. Not in a maxing out contest that ends with F2+A Sure, There are situations where Obs and ovi changes will have an impact at pro level. But no pro player uses F2 as the main way to move their army anyway so the impact will be very negligible if at all. Except for Bly I guess. | ||
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Drfilip
Sweden590 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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NutriaKaiN
88 Posts
On October 07 2017 06:53 Zulu23 wrote: What I would wish to see is the barracks requirement for the factory beeing removed from the tech tree. Thus enabling Terran factory first openings what a great idea, remove the same for robo and stargate and hydraden. | ||
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Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
On October 07 2017 17:34 Creager wrote: But overall StarCraft consists of all those small tasks and things you have to memorize, if you can't enjoy that and don't want to improve, maybe you should play something else. There's even a plethora of other game modes available, like campaign or co-op, all catering towards the more casual audience. You get me wrong, I haven't played a single game in years. And just WOL, anway. I'm not talking about "fun for me to play", I'm talking about "fun to watch". On October 07 2017 17:34 Creager wrote:Day9 brilliantly explained the concept of StarCraft in one of his new show's early episodes: It's a game of constant crisis management, as soon as you're in the game there's going stuff wrong all the time for everyone But try to explain that to the viewer. If I watch a game of starcraft, I constantly ask myself "why the hell didn't he kill that mine?" "that baneling just rolled past a group of marines, why didn't it explode?" and so on. To the viewer, the players look like totally incompetent. Like slalom skiers straddling each single gate... | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15973 Posts
On October 07 2017 19:58 NutriaKaiN wrote: what a great idea, remove the same for robo and stargate and hydraden. I think you should be able to build ultra den before pool. | ||
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Creager
Germany1900 Posts
On October 07 2017 20:38 Haukinger wrote: You get me wrong, I haven't played a single game in years. And just WOL, anway. I'm not talking about "fun for me to play", I'm talking about "fun to watch". But try to explain that to the viewer. If I watch a game of starcraft, I constantly ask myself "why the hell didn't he kill that mine?" "that baneling just rolled past a group of marines, why didn't it explode?" and so on. To the viewer, the players look like totally incompetent. Like slalom skiers straddling each single gate... Well, what SC2 got totally wrong in the first place is exactly this. It's designed to be an esport which sort of makes the viewing experience relevant, but that's a pretty stupid approach, if you ask me. First and foremost the game should satisfy its players, because if noone plays the game, noone can watch, either. Also by playing the game you naturally improve on understanding and therefore appreciating good plays, which aren't always obvious like shiny blink micro or marine splits. | ||
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temporary1
69 Posts
According to this, average protoss player is roughly around mid-high gold, average terran player is roughly between gold and plat, and average zerg player is firmly in platinum. This despite the fact that protoss is by far the least played race, so it would be expected that protoss players would benefit from playing more against t and z then t and z players play against protoss. Considering almost every protoss fighting unit now has some sort of active ability that has very big effect on their strenght, I think the ht change may very well be Blizzard's attempt to make protoss more accessible to casual players. In my opinion it's a wrong way to approach this, and instead protoss would need a staple damage unit like marine or hydra that would be otherwise toned down so it wouldn't break balance in other areas. | ||
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Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
On October 07 2017 21:42 Creager wrote:Well, what SC2 got totally wrong in the first place is exactly this. It's designed to be an esport which sort of makes the viewing experience relevant, but that's a pretty stupid approach, if you ask me. First and foremost the game should satisfy its players, because if noone plays the game, noone can watch, either. Also by playing the game you naturally improve on understanding and therefore appreciating good plays, which aren't always obvious like shiny blink micro or marine splits. I think starcraft caters the (korean pro-) players above all else. If they were serious about being an esport and growing a viewerbase instead of continuously shrinking it, they'd make the game fun to watch for people who have no idea how to play it. And that can only happen by removing the invisible-but-game-deciding stuff. "Tanks unsieged -> Lings destroy everything", "Attack with Marines into Colossi, Marines get fried" - that's the level the viewer understands. For the players it would be at least as demanding as it is now... missed one colossus when scouting, built 3 Marines and 1 Marauder instead of 2 Marines and 2 Marauders, game lost. Same amount of action going on, same stress level for the player, but only things directly and immediately visible to the viewer matter for the outcome of the game. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15973 Posts
On October 07 2017 23:40 Haukinger wrote: If they were serious about being an esport and growing a viewerbase instead of continuously shrinking it, they'd make the game fun to watch for people who have no idea how to play it. No! Just no, this is completely wrong. In LoL and Dota it's much harder to understand what's going on for a noob and their esports scenes are doing quite well. The important thing is how fun the game is to play. The idea that the focus should be on making the game fun to watch for creating an esports game is garbage bullshit. | ||
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