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4 Posts
The majority of the focus going into the final day of GSL vs The World may have been directed at the Grand Final between  TY and INnoVation, but before those two Terrans could do battle, they, and six other Koreans, along with their coach,  NesTea, were set to face off against their foreign rivals, led by another legendary Zerg, Stephano.
 Stats put Korea up 1-0 with a commanding performance. He expertly countered Nerchio's ling/bane/hydra style with immortals and high templars, ramping all the way up to carriers before locking up the game.
sOs bought himself an early lead with a pair of dark templars which steadily increased as his army supply ballooned. ShoWTimE had some nervous moments playing far from behind and ultimately fell as sOs poured into the space between his third and natural.
After Neeb’s dark templars failed to end the game, both players ramped up to five bases. Once there, they found themselves in a basetrade. herO eliminated Neeb's economy before recalling and joining his archons with his carriers. Together they narrowly defeated Neeb’s army.
Kelazhur’s lead was turned into an enormous economic advantage by a basetrade. Barely mining, TY attacked all over the map, but the Brazilian Terran was still producing and mining. It didn't take long for Kelazhur to have a larger army, giving the World Team their first win.
ByuN delayed his expansion, but used the extra resources to fund a reaper/cyclone attack that slowed MajOr's natural command center. ByuN added in a banshee and resumed his assault. The arrival of more cyclones put the nail in the coffin, getting Team Korea back on track.
soO rolled iAsonu in a completely one sided affair. Both players started hatchery first, but it was all soO after that. An early zergling run by put him in the lead, the ling/bane battles that followed increased it and the roaches that arrived soon after put an end to things.
Dark opened with an early pool as he is wont to do against foreigners, killing off Scarlett's hatchery, but not ending the game. Scarlett tried to counter with queens and +1 carapace, but Dark held firm, parlaying the defense into a ravager based attack that earned him the win.
INnoVation and Serral went to the extreme late game, with Serral calling upon ultralisk, vipers and brood lords. INnoVation made significant headway with mass liberators, but was only able to seal the deal when he added ghosts to his composition. From there, Serral could do nothing to stop INnoVation from ending the match with another Korean win, making the final score 7-1.
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What a shame for foreigners... except Khela... and also Serral.. bad luck to be against INno
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I thought they said the skill gap between foreigners and koreans had closed...
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On August 07 2017 19:27 Espartaquen wrote:
I thought they said the skill gap between foreigners and koreans had closed...
Yeah it had closed, they have not surpassed them. A lot of the games were close narrow victories, very different from how it looked 3-4 years ago. Clearly even matchups mostly
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On August 07 2017 19:38 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2017 19:27 Espartaquen wrote:
I thought they said the skill gap between foreigners and koreans had closed... Yeah it had closed, they have not surpassed them. A lot of the games were close narrow victories, very different from how it looked 3-4 years ago. Clearly even matchups mostly
Well i can remember when Dimaga, White Ra , TT1 etc. played better and closer against the Koreans 
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On August 07 2017 20:05 MKStyles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2017 19:38 Shuffleblade wrote:On August 07 2017 19:27 Espartaquen wrote:
I thought they said the skill gap between foreigners and koreans had closed... Yeah it had closed, they have not surpassed them. A lot of the games were close narrow victories, very different from how it looked 3-4 years ago. Clearly even matchups mostly Well i can remember when Dimaga, White Ra , TT1 etc. played better and closer against the Koreans
And those matches happened before Kespa came into the scene.
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We won a game, gap is closed, you can either love it or hate it, but that is all, you can do against it.
I would just not praise Kelazhur so much for the game as it was a huge pain watching for 20 minutes a player being up 50 supply trying hard to throw the game. At the end, he did not succeed, so he suffered a win.
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Kela was up 50 supply and the game was still dead even for 20 mins lol
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It's just too funny to see Dark go early pool every time against foreigner zergs and win handily
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same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
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On August 07 2017 19:25 Mun_Su wrote:and also Serral.. bad luck to be against INno
He was super lucky that Innovation was looking elsewhere and lost that attack on Serral's 4th to those banelings. That's the only reason that game was close.
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
7-1
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On August 07 2017 21:55 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. 7-1
I think you're being a bit of a BraGer here.
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I was impressive more about Neeb and Serral's games than Kelazhur's one even though he won. 
-Firstly Neeb and Serral fought hard and made their games look really close, at many stages we could tell that was a fight between 2 even players.
-TY looked so much better than Kelazhur in mid and late game, he lost becoz the cheese deal so much damage at the beginning and nearly played with handicap for the rest of that game. . Of course it's a strategy game so a win is a win, however a macro game tells much more about the skill level between 2 players than a cheese one.
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always beautiful to see foreigners being put in their place. havent had this much fun watching sc2 for quite the time.
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
I'm not sure how you thought up this analogy; the hypothetical ladder player you're talking about lost - Korean progamers tend to wipe the floor with foreigners, we've seen this time and time again over many years now. And when I say "wipe the floor" I mean both in the sense of "yeah both play really well but one of them just never loses no matter how close it gets" and in the sense of "wow he really made his opponent look like a Gold leaguer in that one".
Even if I were to agree with your dehumanization of everyone who rages on ladder as being some shitty spoiled kid who can't face their own mistakes and blames it on something else as opposed to complex human beings who may or may not have various circumstances going on in their lives, the fact of the matter remains that Korean pros almost never lose anymore, and sometimes it doesn't even look close at all. So your analogy is like really really really silly.
Whatever, I've never been the type to get irrationally angry over this kind of thing. I just enjoy the game. And I quite enjoyed this tournament, both the team match and the individual tournament.
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On August 07 2017 22:18 ParksonVN wrote:I was impressive more about Neeb and Serral's games than Kelazhur's one even though he won. -Firstly Neeb and Serral fought hard and made their games look really close, at many stages we could tell that was a fight between 2 even players.
Serral lost after Inno made a mistake he almost never makes that put him super behind. Playing even with that was not impressive in the slightest.
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you'll never be the best baseball hitter in the world if you don't play full time in the USA, assimilate into the culture of MLB, and learn how to speak english and/or spanish.
until foreigners do what grrr did.. they'll never be the best. grrr played full time in Korea, assimilated into the culture of the best SC players and learned to speak Korean.
congratz to the koreans.. its a well deserved stomp against a group of very talented non-koreans who for whatever reason won't do everything that it takes to be the very best.
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I think what people are missing about kelazhur vs TY is that Kelazhur made 0 vikings. He choked and made 0 vikings vs 5 vikings and 4 liberators. TY's air units completely controlled every fight right up until he lost them.
Had Kelazhur made a starport along with those bunch of factories below his 3rd he would have cleaned up the game so much earlier. Ultimately we saw kelazhur choke hard and TY fail to overcome the extreme economic disparity.
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
It's the same way that a top korean player can lose the occasional game to a low level pro doing a cheese/allin. We don't suddenly act like those players are equal level and start praising the low level pro, he just got a lucky build.
TY is generally a high level player/champion contender, meanwhile Kela couldn't qualify for GSL when he tried earlier this year. One cheese game isn't enough for anyone to make up for a whole year of lower level play. Just like if TY had lost to a low level korean player cheesing him.
And lets be honest here. Kela did go for a risky cheese on a 4 player map and it paid of. He had a worker lead for the whole game. The fact he was up 50 supply and 2 bases, but the game was still close for 20 minutes shows he isn't on the same TvT level. If TY up 50 supply and 2 bases (or even equal supply/bases), that game would not have been close
(and no I'm not trying to hate on Kela, I think he's one of the best foreigners maybe of all time, but I'm just being honest)
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
That was a very impressive 1-7. That one map win completely closed the gap.
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On August 07 2017 20:43 Fango wrote:
Kela was up 50 supply and the game was still dead even for 20 mins lol
that's tvt in lotv though, the matchup is truly terrible.
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yea cheesing on a 4p map takes so much skill lmao and unable to close the game with 10 times your opponents income.
kelazhur gambled hard, got lucky, got far ahead, still almost lost because hes an inferior player compared to TY.
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On August 08 2017 03:15 paxconsciente wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2017 20:43 Fango wrote:
Kela was up 50 supply and the game was still dead even for 20 mins lol that's tvt in lotv though, the matchup is truly terrible.
In this case it was entirely on Kelazhur, since for most of the game, the only thing that kind of kept TY in it was his air advantage. Kelazhur's economic lead was so gigantic he could have easily afforded to go into multiple starports and take the air dominance himself. With an air advantage, he wouldn't have had to be so scared of TY's tank count.
On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
On the one hand you complain about 'prejudiced narratives', on the other hand you give him praise for winning 1 game against a top Korean like it's still 2014 and those things never happen.
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On August 08 2017 03:15 paxconsciente wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2017 20:43 Fango wrote:
Kela was up 50 supply and the game was still dead even for 20 mins lol that's tvt in lotv though, the matchup is truly terrible.
t v t is my favourite matchup in lotv to both watch and play.
especially with the new dominion special forces skins
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
watch the actual game. kelazhur was up in supply and bases the entire time and still barely won. i seriously thought he was gonna lose, because TY was stomping his production with a superior army. but he messed up the base trade.
whereas in the neeb match, neeb played really well and could have won but lost the final engage.
7-1. prejudice? lol facts don't care about your feelings
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oh also i remember when people were saying region locking was good. in the end, it accelerated the death of sc2 as predicted as the EU and NA matches are boring without koreans, AND as predicted, the foreigners got stomped. Only neeb looked legit.
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
If you are trying to argue that the gap has closed, why on earth would you use the Teamleague matches? Team World just got their asses handed to them 7-1; we haven't seen foreigners getting beat down so hard since WESG.
You would have a much better case if you used the individual tourney results. Neeb beat sOs and went 2-3 against TY. MajOr went 2-3 against Stats. These were all close series during which the foreigners legitimately looked equal (at times) to their top-tier Korean opponents.
Team Korea vs Team World was a dumpster fire for the World.
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I think a lot of people itt have an incorrect reading of the kelazhur TY game. The part that's absolutely right is that TY is a better player than kelazhur and would probably win in a proper series. But seriously TY gave a Fantasy gg timing, he never had any chance of winning that game after the basetrade. It kinda looked like he was making a comeback but if you actually look at the info on the screen and not just the army you'd see kelazhur had 2,000+ minerals in the bank and TY had less than 100. the game was already over and TY knew it because he had actually scouted kelazhur's bases mining so it's not like he didn't know how far behind he was as is sometimes the case. He was putting on a show because there was a big audience and that's the only reason the game kept going. It's kind of like the inverse of that Firecake vs ForGG game that made it look like ZvT was a broken mess when really ForGG was being a prick by not leaving the game (it's the 'inverse' because this time it was interesting and fun to watch, so it's okay)
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On August 08 2017 08:39 Dabble wrote:
I think a lot of people itt have an incorrect reading of the kelazhur TY game. The part that's absolutely right is that TY is a better player than kelazhur and would probably win in a proper series. But seriously TY gave a Fantasy gg timing, he never had any chance of winning that game after the basetrade. It kinda looked like he was making a comeback but if you actually look at the info on the screen and not just the army you'd see kelazhur had 2,000+ minerals in the bank and TY had less than 100. the game was already over and TY knew it because he had actually scouted kelazhur's bases mining so it's not like he didn't know how far behind he was as is sometimes the case. He was putting on a show because there was a big audience and that's the only reason the game kept going. It's kind of like the inverse of that Firecake vs ForGG game that made it look like ZvT was a broken mess when really ForGG was being a prick by not leaving the game (it's the 'inverse' because this time it was interesting and fun to watch, so it's okay)
TY had over 100 army supply. In a TvT you never GG with that. Even if you know in your head that the game's 99% lost, you at least try for a basetrade or whatever. If you're behind, you can bet on your opponent making a mistake. And Kela was only one or two control errors of losing.
Besides it's more impressive that TY was 50 supply down and Kela couldn't win for so long. If they were on equal supplies I imagine a very one sided game.
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How on Earth did Hero's army "narrowly" defeat Neeb, he had SEVEN carriers left it was an utter roflstomp.
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srzl you argueing about skill Gaps closing and stuff... its hillarious. Debating about some fictional definitions about Skill levels... It is what it is... Koreans are the best, what all the chattering about. Its a competition, there are winners and losers.
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On August 08 2017 05:05 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. watch the actual game. kelazhur was up in supply and bases the entire time and still barely won. i seriously thought he was gonna lose, because TY was stomping his production with a superior army. but he messed up the base trade. whereas in the neeb match, neeb played really well and could have won but lost the final engage. 7-1. prejudice? lol facts don't care about your feelings
Ure being quite narrowsighted in regard to Kelazhurs game.
First: You introduce the fact that Kela was up in supply as if the game had started that way. Kelazhurs macro skill was top notch. The dmg he did with the cheese wasnt that much to explain his much superior strenght. You gotta praise his Macro.
Second: From the basetrade's get go, TY's economy and therefore, production, was in shambles. So, but for his positioning of troops in the entrance of the natural, he dedicated his attention wholy to his army. With Kelazhur, it was much more complicated, he managed to rebuild his infrastructure and also keep expanding, in a very complex setting, since TY's troops were in the middle of the map. So while Kela managed rebuilding, economy and army, TY was mainly controlling his army and so he had a more efficient use of it.
I do acknowledge TYs decision making with the army better. But in everything else, Kelazhur was superior.
And thats why he won.
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the only problem with tvt is medivac boost being op vs. missile turrets.
tanks are way better than they used to be
also you can play the game without going air in TvT and instead contain the other terran, mass expand, and drop harass to slow down the other player. it's exactly what kela did no? TY was hardcore contained the whole game. It worked best because of the size of the map.
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On August 08 2017 12:22 youngjiddle wrote:
the only problem with tvt is medivac boost being op vs. missile turrets.
tanks are way better than they used to be
also you can play the game without going air in TvT and instead contain the other terran, mass expand, and drop harass to slow down the other player. it's exactly what kela did no? TY was hardcore contained the whole game. It worked best because of the size of the map.
A better example of air-control Terran vs expand-harass Terran is TY vs Inno, with the former prioritizing Vikings/Libs and the latter mass Marines.
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United States97276 Posts
finally got around to watching the team showmatch games. Serral was very impressive. probably would have beaten any terran not named Innovation in that game
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On August 08 2017 10:26 Locutos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 05:05 fishjie wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. watch the actual game. kelazhur was up in supply and bases the entire time and still barely won. i seriously thought he was gonna lose, because TY was stomping his production with a superior army. but he messed up the base trade. whereas in the neeb match, neeb played really well and could have won but lost the final engage. 7-1. prejudice? lol facts don't care about your feelings Ure being quite narrowsighted in regard to Kelazhurs game. First: You introduce the fact that Kela was up in supply as if the game had started that way. Kelazhurs macro skill was top notch. The dmg he did with the cheese wasnt that much to explain his much superior strenght. You gotta praise his Macro. Second: From the basetrade's get go, TY's economy and therefore, production, was in shambles. So, but for his positioning of troops in the entrance of the natural, he dedicated his attention wholy to his army. With Kelazhur, it was much more complicated, he managed to rebuild his infrastructure and also keep expanding, in a very complex setting, since TY's troops were in the middle of the map. So while Kela managed rebuilding, economy and army, TY was mainly controlling his army and so he had a more efficient use of it. I do acknowledge TYs decision making with the army better. But in everything else, Kelazhur was superior. And thats why he won.
moron. oh you're from brazil that figures
User was warned for this post
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Best part has to be soO dancing roaches. Foreigners can even make a Kong feel like a King, just for a day.
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments.
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On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments.
Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims.
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On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims.
It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit).
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On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit).
Since when have online communities ever been positive? Obviously there are a lot of good fans but in any online community for anything the trolls, haters, etc, are extremely vocal. And of course this applies doubly for any community revolving around competition. Throw in race and/or nationality on top of all that and you have a veritable bonfire of hostility.
I'm not saying the players are wrong to disparage the community (they're certainly justified), only that they shouldn't be surprised about how negative it is now, and always has been. Dealing with the hate of anonymous trolls is simply part and parcel of being a public figure these days.
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It's so sad seeing people trying to diminish Kelas completely legit win over TY.
They make it sound as if he could A move at any time and roll him over. Why don't you watch the vods? Kela was ahead and played solid the whole game, TY just wasn't going to give it up easily. And at the end of the game despite TY not mining, had Kela made one mistake and lost his marines to tanks, he was dead. He made the right call, played patiently and starved TY out.
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On August 08 2017 15:44 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). Since when have online communities ever been positive? Obviously there are a lot of good fans but in any online community for anything the trolls, haters, etc, are extremely vocal. And of course this applies doubly for any community revolving around competition. Throw in race and/or nationality on top of all that and you have a veritable bonfire of hostility. I'm not saying the players are wrong to disparage the community (they're certainly justified), only that they shouldn't be surprised about how negative it is now, and always has been. Dealing with the hate of anonymous trolls is simply part and parcel of being a public figure these days.
You can't use an excuse like "it's always been like this" for anything, it just makes the problem bigger.
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Does "patch Terran" trolling bother Inno? Probably not. He won't compute irrelevant data.
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On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims.
But he agrees with Brickrd's post so that's why he doesn't have a problem with it.
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Look, for the record, I believe Kela DID take a series off TY at WESG, even though TY had already won the group, I don't wanna go so far as to say TY wasn't trying his hardest.
Edit; He might have lost to Showtime too, I forget...
But I will say this, TY's style, because it's so mid-late game based, is VERY susceptible to cheese. This used to happen to him a lot in proleague games he shoulda won.
It's like this, Inno is the Macro God, Byun is the ” Skirmish" micro God, ( hence the reaper madness) Maru is the decisive engagement, " Army control God" , with the splits and whatnot. And like I said, when he's at his best, he's very decisive with his attack s, he just kills you.
TY is the tactics, multi tasking, out think you kinda player.
But all in all, the foreigners are a long way off. Major, top foreign Terran easy, MIGHT be as good as Ryung.
Neeb is fuckin legit, forget about it....
Edit; Showtime seems to have the skill too, but I dunno. Neeb is definitely better to me.....
Serrall is solid, but I still got Elazer higher off results. Neither I put above Dark, sOO, or Solar.....
Scarlett, really I LOVE her play, but..... I don't know what's missing. I feel like it's mental there cause the raw skills seem to be there..
Sometimes she just seems way too cocky...
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
when nani and stephano were wiping floors occasionally with koreans, people were giving honest praise.
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On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement.
it was 25-14 in the 16 player event and 7-1 on championship sunday. there is no requirement for a narrative or any reason/excuse. the Win/Loss record of the Non-Koreans in the GSL v. World and the 8 game exhibition on championship sunday speaks for itself.
if we took the lifetime cumulative win-loss ratio of every non-korean in GSL history i wonder how close it is to 15:32 ?
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On August 08 2017 17:46 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:44 pvsnp wrote:On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). Since when have online communities ever been positive? Obviously there are a lot of good fans but in any online community for anything the trolls, haters, etc, are extremely vocal. And of course this applies doubly for any community revolving around competition. Throw in race and/or nationality on top of all that and you have a veritable bonfire of hostility. I'm not saying the players are wrong to disparage the community (they're certainly justified), only that they shouldn't be surprised about how negative it is now, and always has been. Dealing with the hate of anonymous trolls is simply part and parcel of being a public figure these days. You can't use an excuse like "it's always been like this" for anything, it just makes the problem bigger.
It's not really an excuse, it's just the way things are and not much can be done about it. Where people can stay anonymous and speak publicly, they will always talk shit like this.
This same behavior is there in traditional sports as well, athletes are loved then hated the next minute, they get called all kinds of names and their achievements are downplayed for whatever reasons. I guess they can console themselves with the money though, which SC players cannot :\.
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On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit).
When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community.
I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet?
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On August 09 2017 03:42 usopsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community. I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet?
If players are bland, parts of the community complains.
If players talk trash (even if it isn't intended to be insulting), parts of the community complains.
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On August 09 2017 03:42 usopsama wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community. I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet?
come on, it's just banter.
without that the scene would be boring
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On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit).
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
When sports athletes seem like their coasting by, do you think no one says anything negative about them? You and Innovation were both on Acer; he left because he wanted to be a better player, is that why you did? Heromarine said it yesterday on stream... foreigners are bad because all they want to do is play vs bad EU players and practice bad builds.
Blizzcon is gonna be an absolute slaughter.
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On August 09 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 03:42 usopsama wrote:On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community. I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet? come on, it's just banter. without that the scene would be boring
Don't speak for everyone.
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On August 09 2017 04:05 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 03:42 usopsama wrote:On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community. I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet? If players are bland, parts of the community complains. If players talk trash (even if it isn't intended to be insulting), parts of the community complains.
On August 09 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 03:42 usopsama wrote:On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community. I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet? come on, it's just banter. without that the scene would be boring
I am not against talking trash nor banter. But at the very least, you need to have the skills to back up your words.
If you talk shit and then get completely slaughtered. That's completely different.
For example, if Neeb were to talk trash about the Koreans but ends up destroying all the Korean protoss to win a trophy, that would be much more acceptable than if he got completely slaughtered.
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United States1886 Posts
On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all. When sports athletes seem like their coasting by, do you think no one says anything negative about them? You and Innovation were both on Acer; he left because he wanted to be a better player, is that why you did? Heromarine said it yesterday on stream... foreigners are bad because all they want to do is play vs bad EU players and practice bad builds. Blizzcon is gonna be an absolute slaughter.
This is an incredibly ignorant statement. You have no idea how much time/work/effort Nerchio puts into the game or what specific elements of gameplay/strategy he focuses on. It's also worth mentioning that Nerchio is one of the very few Europeans who plays in online Korean events despite the lag. Bottom line, you don't know anything about him. Stop assuming you do.
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On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
i don't think the foreigners are "bad people"; they are just unwilling to commit to the extra effort it takes to be #1 when not born in Korea.
Its no different than if a french speaking baseball pitcher from Quebec, Canada wants to be the best baseball relief pitcher in the world. He has to move to another country and learn how to speak English. If he just stays in Quebec and never learns how to speak English that baseball pitcher will never be the best in the world. And, that guy born in Quebec will have to put in extra work to learn English and assimilate into American/English/MLB culture. This "extra effort" is not required for any really good baseball pitcher born in New York state or California.
i'll say it again:
until a foreigner is willing to do what grrr did we'll never have a non-Korean world champ.
Whether it's Guilliame Patry or Eric Gagne. They've provided the blue print for what it takes. Learn the language of the best, assimilate into the culture of the best. Then .... eat, sleep, breathe and live the game.
It is a lot easier to develop into the best baseball pitcher in the world if you're born in New York or California. Its a lot easier to develop into the best Starcraft player in the world if you are born in Korea.
Life Ain't Fair.
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On August 09 2017 04:05 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 03:42 usopsama wrote:On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community. I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet? If players are bland, parts of the community complains. If players talk trash (even if it isn't intended to be insulting), parts of the community complains.
People complain. Just like people whine, and hate, and troll, and on and on and on.
It sounds like a truism (because it is), but people are flawed and always will be. To err is human.
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On August 08 2017 17:46 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2017 15:44 pvsnp wrote:On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). Since when have online communities ever been positive? Obviously there are a lot of good fans but in any online community for anything the trolls, haters, etc, are extremely vocal. And of course this applies doubly for any community revolving around competition. Throw in race and/or nationality on top of all that and you have a veritable bonfire of hostility. I'm not saying the players are wrong to disparage the community (they're certainly justified), only that they shouldn't be surprised about how negative it is now, and always has been. Dealing with the hate of anonymous trolls is simply part and parcel of being a public figure these days. You can't use an excuse like "it's always been like this" for anything, it just makes the problem bigger.
If you think this online community can improve and are willing to work towards that goal. I applaud your optimism. But I don't share it. Improving the community is an admirable goal that would help everyone if fulfilled, to be sure, but I just can't see it happening.
Call me a cynic if you want, but people are deeply flawed and always will be. It just so happens that in the SC2 community, these flaws manifest as the hate seen on Reddit/TL/etc. Another poster pointed out that public anonymity will always result in shit-talking, and that traditional sports suffer the same problems.
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On August 09 2017 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
i don't think the foreigners are "bad people"; they are just unwilling to commit to the extra effort it takes to be #1 when not born in Korea. Its no different than if a french speaking baseball pitcher from Quebec, Canada wants to be the best baseball relief pitcher in the world. He has to move to another country and learn how to speak English. If he just stays in Quebec and never learns how to speak English that baseball pitcher will never be the best in the world. And, that guy born in Quebec will have to put in extra work to learn English and assimilate into American/English/MLB culture. This "extra effort" is not required for any really good baseball pitcher born in New York state or California. i'll say it again: until a foreigner is willing to do what grrr did we'll never have a non-Korean world champ. Whether it's Guilliame Patry or Eric Gagne. They've provided the blue print for what it takes. Learn the language of the best, assimilate into the culture of the best. Then .... eat, sleep, breathe and live the game. It is a lot easier to develop into the best baseball pitcher in the world if you're born in New York or California. Its a lot easier to develop into the best Starcraft player in the world if you are born in Korea. Life Ain't Fair.
At this point it doesn't make sense for a foreigner to assimiliate into the korean culture and learn the language because the korean sc2 scene is at its last breaths. there are no team houses anymore so by the time the current generation has to go to military the korean sc2 scene as we know it won't exist anymore. So why waste time assimilating to the culture when there's only a few years left for the korean scene and all your effort will be wasted afterwards?
Also thinking from the perspective of a foreign pro the prize money isn't much higher in korea than in wcs circuit so there's very little motivation to move there. I know from a competitive perspective it would be cool if they'd value prestige over money but those guys are humans and have to make a living afterall.
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On August 09 2017 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
i don't think the foreigners are "bad people"; they are just unwilling to commit to the extra effort it takes to be #1 when not born in Korea. Its no different than if a french speaking baseball pitcher from Quebec, Canada wants to be the best baseball relief pitcher in the world. He has to move to another country and learn how to speak English. If he just stays in Quebec and never learns how to speak English that baseball pitcher will never be the best in the world. And, that guy born in Quebec will have to put in extra work to learn English and assimilate into American/English/MLB culture. This "extra effort" is not required for any really good baseball pitcher born in New York state or California. i'll say it again: until a foreigner is willing to do what grrr did we'll never have a non-Korean world champ. Whether it's Guilliame Patry or Eric Gagne. They've provided the blue print for what it takes. Learn the language of the best, assimilate into the culture of the best. Then .... eat, sleep, breathe and live the game. It is a lot easier to develop into the best baseball pitcher in the world if you're born in New York or California. Its a lot easier to develop into the best Starcraft player in the world if you are born in Korea. Life Ain't Fair. At this point it doesn't make sense for a foreigner to assimiliate into the korean culture and learn the language because the korean sc2 scene is at its last breaths. there are no team houses anymore so by the time the current generation has to go to military the korean sc2 scene as we know it won't exist anymore. So why waste time assimilating to the culture when there's only a few years left for the korean scene and all your effort will be wasted afterwards?
Maybe they just like Korean culture?
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On August 09 2017 08:11 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:On August 09 2017 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
i don't think the foreigners are "bad people"; they are just unwilling to commit to the extra effort it takes to be #1 when not born in Korea. Its no different than if a french speaking baseball pitcher from Quebec, Canada wants to be the best baseball relief pitcher in the world. He has to move to another country and learn how to speak English. If he just stays in Quebec and never learns how to speak English that baseball pitcher will never be the best in the world. And, that guy born in Quebec will have to put in extra work to learn English and assimilate into American/English/MLB culture. This "extra effort" is not required for any really good baseball pitcher born in New York state or California. i'll say it again: until a foreigner is willing to do what grrr did we'll never have a non-Korean world champ. Whether it's Guilliame Patry or Eric Gagne. They've provided the blue print for what it takes. Learn the language of the best, assimilate into the culture of the best. Then .... eat, sleep, breathe and live the game. It is a lot easier to develop into the best baseball pitcher in the world if you're born in New York or California. Its a lot easier to develop into the best Starcraft player in the world if you are born in Korea. Life Ain't Fair. At this point it doesn't make sense for a foreigner to assimiliate into the korean culture and learn the language because the korean sc2 scene is at its last breaths. there are no team houses anymore so by the time the current generation has to go to military the korean sc2 scene as we know it won't exist anymore. So why waste time assimilating to the culture when there's only a few years left for the korean scene and all your effort will be wasted afterwards? Maybe they just like Korean culture?
Sure that's possible but if the question is if they should assimilate to korea for the sole purpose of improving their sc2 skill it doesn't make sense.
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On August 09 2017 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
i don't think the foreigners are "bad people"; they are just unwilling to commit to the extra effort it takes to be #1 when not born in Korea. Its no different than if a french speaking baseball pitcher from Quebec, Canada wants to be the best baseball relief pitcher in the world. He has to move to another country and learn how to speak English. If he just stays in Quebec and never learns how to speak English that baseball pitcher will never be the best in the world. And, that guy born in Quebec will have to put in extra work to learn English and assimilate into American/English/MLB culture. This "extra effort" is not required for any really good baseball pitcher born in New York state or California. i'll say it again: until a foreigner is willing to do what grrr did we'll never have a non-Korean world champ. Whether it's Guilliame Patry or Eric Gagne. They've provided the blue print for what it takes. Learn the language of the best, assimilate into the culture of the best. Then .... eat, sleep, breathe and live the game. It is a lot easier to develop into the best baseball pitcher in the world if you're born in New York or California. Its a lot easier to develop into the best Starcraft player in the world if you are born in Korea. Life Ain't Fair. At this point it doesn't make sense for a foreigner to assimiliate into the korean culture and learn the language because the korean sc2 scene is at its last breaths. there are no team houses anymore so by the time the current generation has to go to military the korean sc2 scene as we know it won't exist anymore. So why waste time assimilating to the culture when there's only a few years left for the korean scene and all your effort will be wasted afterwards? Also thinking from the perspective of a foreign pro the prize money isn't much higher in korea than in wcs circuit so there's very little motivation to move there. I know from a competitive perspective it would be cool if they'd value prestige over money but those guys are humans and have to make a living afterall.
depends how Blizz arranges GSL and WCS in the future. BlizzCon is for more money due to the Warchest. the #1 player in the world usually makes a lot more than any one else and if that #1 player is fluent in both Korean and ENglish they are probably in a position to make more than they can doing anything else.
the probability of Gagne and Patry doing what they did was exceedingly low. i don't know if they did it for the cash. how much cash was out there when Patry started living in Korea? how long had that cash been available? both guys took massive risks. Until Gagne made it to the majors he made 1/20th of what Byun did last year. Minor League baseball players are currently in a labour dispute claiming they make less than the US's minimum hourly wage.
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On August 09 2017 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
i don't think the foreigners are "bad people"; they are just unwilling to commit to the extra effort it takes to be #1 when not born in Korea. Its no different than if a french speaking baseball pitcher from Quebec, Canada wants to be the best baseball relief pitcher in the world. He has to move to another country and learn how to speak English. If he just stays in Quebec and never learns how to speak English that baseball pitcher will never be the best in the world. And, that guy born in Quebec will have to put in extra work to learn English and assimilate into American/English/MLB culture. This "extra effort" is not required for any really good baseball pitcher born in New York state or California. i'll say it again: until a foreigner is willing to do what grrr did we'll never have a non-Korean world champ. Whether it's Guilliame Patry or Eric Gagne. They've provided the blue print for what it takes. Learn the language of the best, assimilate into the culture of the best. Then .... eat, sleep, breathe and live the game. It is a lot easier to develop into the best baseball pitcher in the world if you're born in New York or California. Its a lot easier to develop into the best Starcraft player in the world if you are born in Korea. Life Ain't Fair. At this point it doesn't make sense for a foreigner to assimiliate into the korean culture and learn the language because the korean sc2 scene is at its last breaths. there are no team houses anymore so by the time the current generation has to go to military the korean sc2 scene as we know it won't exist anymore. So why waste time assimilating to the culture when there's only a few years left for the korean scene and all your effort will be wasted afterwards? Also thinking from the perspective of a foreign pro the prize money isn't much higher in korea than in wcs circuit so there's very little motivation to move there. I know from a competitive perspective it would be cool if they'd value prestige over money but those guys are humans and have to make a living afterall.
I think you kinda missed the point of what JimmyJRaynor was saying. Assimilating into Korean culture would be done with the purpose of reaping the most benefits from their practice environment and cut-throat competition. It would not be done with the sole purpose of winning GSL, but rather building the top level skills which would allow a high finish in any tournament no matter the bracket. Thus your counter-argument is kind of moot; he's not saying "go to Korea and win GSL", he's saying "go to Korea and practice until you can win GSL, then you will also win DH, IEM, BlizzCon etc". And those will stick around longer perhaps, and if not they're still a lot more tournaments and a lot more money on the line. Because yeah you're right, it's not worth going to Korea simply to trade WCS for GSL, but it may be worth going to Korea with the endgoal of becoming so good that you will place highly in any given tournament.
Of course it's all hypothetical, but it makes sense.
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On August 09 2017 16:49 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:On August 09 2017 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
i don't think the foreigners are "bad people"; they are just unwilling to commit to the extra effort it takes to be #1 when not born in Korea. Its no different than if a french speaking baseball pitcher from Quebec, Canada wants to be the best baseball relief pitcher in the world. He has to move to another country and learn how to speak English. If he just stays in Quebec and never learns how to speak English that baseball pitcher will never be the best in the world. And, that guy born in Quebec will have to put in extra work to learn English and assimilate into American/English/MLB culture. This "extra effort" is not required for any really good baseball pitcher born in New York state or California. i'll say it again: until a foreigner is willing to do what grrr did we'll never have a non-Korean world champ. Whether it's Guilliame Patry or Eric Gagne. They've provided the blue print for what it takes. Learn the language of the best, assimilate into the culture of the best. Then .... eat, sleep, breathe and live the game. It is a lot easier to develop into the best baseball pitcher in the world if you're born in New York or California. Its a lot easier to develop into the best Starcraft player in the world if you are born in Korea. Life Ain't Fair. At this point it doesn't make sense for a foreigner to assimiliate into the korean culture and learn the language because the korean sc2 scene is at its last breaths. there are no team houses anymore so by the time the current generation has to go to military the korean sc2 scene as we know it won't exist anymore. So why waste time assimilating to the culture when there's only a few years left for the korean scene and all your effort will be wasted afterwards? Also thinking from the perspective of a foreign pro the prize money isn't much higher in korea than in wcs circuit so there's very little motivation to move there. I know from a competitive perspective it would be cool if they'd value prestige over money but those guys are humans and have to make a living afterall. I think you kinda missed the point of what JimmyJRaynor was saying. Assimilating into Korean culture would be done with the purpose of reaping the most benefits from their practice environment and cut-throat competition. It would not be done with the sole purpose of winning GSL, but rather building the top level skills which would allow a high finish in any tournament no matter the bracket. Thus your counter-argument is kind of moot; he's not saying "go to Korea and win GSL", he's saying "go to Korea and practice until you can win GSL, then you will also win DH, IEM, BlizzCon etc". And those will stick around longer perhaps, and if not they're still a lot more tournaments and a lot more money on the line. Because yeah you're right, it's not worth going to Korea simply to trade WCS for GSL, but it may be worth going to Korea with the endgoal of becoming so good that you will place highly in any given tournament. Of course it's all hypothetical, but it makes sense.
but foreigners are already doing that?
MajOr, Kelazhur, Elazer, Ptitdrogo, Neeb, Scarlett have all gone to korea for practice
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On August 09 2017 17:02 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 16:49 207aicila wrote:On August 09 2017 08:10 Charoisaur wrote:On August 09 2017 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 09 2017 04:07 Bayaz90 wrote:
Nerchio, you have won $240,000 from this game. What is stopping you from training in Korea? The answer is you. Every caster talks about your poor creep spread, yet it doesn't seem like you've made effort to improve it. When foreigners seem like they don't care about being the best they can be at Starcraft, why should we care about them? Foreigners can't expect to be coddled on forums when they aren't putting in their all.
i don't think the foreigners are "bad people"; they are just unwilling to commit to the extra effort it takes to be #1 when not born in Korea. Its no different than if a french speaking baseball pitcher from Quebec, Canada wants to be the best baseball relief pitcher in the world. He has to move to another country and learn how to speak English. If he just stays in Quebec and never learns how to speak English that baseball pitcher will never be the best in the world. And, that guy born in Quebec will have to put in extra work to learn English and assimilate into American/English/MLB culture. This "extra effort" is not required for any really good baseball pitcher born in New York state or California. i'll say it again: until a foreigner is willing to do what grrr did we'll never have a non-Korean world champ. Whether it's Guilliame Patry or Eric Gagne. They've provided the blue print for what it takes. Learn the language of the best, assimilate into the culture of the best. Then .... eat, sleep, breathe and live the game. It is a lot easier to develop into the best baseball pitcher in the world if you're born in New York or California. Its a lot easier to develop into the best Starcraft player in the world if you are born in Korea. Life Ain't Fair. At this point it doesn't make sense for a foreigner to assimiliate into the korean culture and learn the language because the korean sc2 scene is at its last breaths. there are no team houses anymore so by the time the current generation has to go to military the korean sc2 scene as we know it won't exist anymore. So why waste time assimilating to the culture when there's only a few years left for the korean scene and all your effort will be wasted afterwards? Also thinking from the perspective of a foreign pro the prize money isn't much higher in korea than in wcs circuit so there's very little motivation to move there. I know from a competitive perspective it would be cool if they'd value prestige over money but those guys are humans and have to make a living afterall. I think you kinda missed the point of what JimmyJRaynor was saying. Assimilating into Korean culture would be done with the purpose of reaping the most benefits from their practice environment and cut-throat competition. It would not be done with the sole purpose of winning GSL, but rather building the top level skills which would allow a high finish in any tournament no matter the bracket. Thus your counter-argument is kind of moot; he's not saying "go to Korea and win GSL", he's saying "go to Korea and practice until you can win GSL, then you will also win DH, IEM, BlizzCon etc". And those will stick around longer perhaps, and if not they're still a lot more tournaments and a lot more money on the line. Because yeah you're right, it's not worth going to Korea simply to trade WCS for GSL, but it may be worth going to Korea with the endgoal of becoming so good that you will place highly in any given tournament. Of course it's all hypothetical, but it makes sense. but foreigners are already doing that? MajOr, Kelazhur, Elazer, Ptitdrogo, Neeb, Scarlett have all gone to korea for practice
they have, indeed, but i don't think they put as much effort and as many hours as the top Koreans do. Except Major and Scarlet, the rest of them just boot camp in few months of few weeks, that's definitely not enough.
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Honestly I think every foreigner from here on out should be legal mandated to prostrate themselves in the presence of every Korean pro they see and discontinue the use of any social media in which they might accidentally say something negative about their Korean overlords until the next KR vs Foreigner competition. It's only fair and obviously what the fans want.
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On August 09 2017 18:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Honestly I think every foreigner from here on out should be legal mandated to prostrate themselves in the presence of every Korean pro they see and discontinue the use of any social media in which they might accidentally say something negative about their Korean overlords until the next KR vs Foreigner competition. It's only fair and obviously what the fans want.
Thank you for this wonderfully insightful and constructive post! Not only is it the most helpful post I've ever seen, it's also by far the funniest! You have a very promising career in comedic writing or perhaps even stand-up!
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On August 07 2017 19:27 Espartaquen wrote:
I thought they said the skill gap between foreigners and koreans had closed...
come on now. it's 1-7 instead of 0-8 it would've been before. it's not as big as before.
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Remember when Stephano almost all kills the Korean All Stars at IPL5?
I mean if you look at it that way, technically we've gotten worse.
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On August 09 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 03:42 usopsama wrote:On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community. I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet? come on, it's just banter. without that the scene would be boring
What's the difference between shit talk and banter? As far as I can tell, banter is when you fail to follow through while it's legit shit talk if you succeed?
Yeah no, don't work like that.
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On August 12 2017 07:40 PuddleZerg wrote:
Remember when Stephano almost all kills the Korean All Stars at IPL5?
I mean if you look at it that way, technically we've gotten worse.
Yeah... with Stephano we were so much stronger, it was so good to see Life, MC, Seed and Dongraegu get stomped by foreign zerg swarm...
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On August 12 2017 07:45 PuddleZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:On August 09 2017 03:42 usopsama wrote:On August 08 2017 15:30 Nerchio wrote:On August 08 2017 15:19 207aicila wrote:On August 08 2017 14:48 Nerchio wrote:On August 07 2017 21:21 brickrd wrote:
same old lazy, brainless, prejudiced narratives being applied to korean vs foreigner games: kelazhur couldn't close out his win "because he sucks" yet ty didn't win at all "because he was just having a bad day/didn't care"
these korean apologists sound like the dude on ladder who rages at the end of your game, telling you he you're bad and he only lost because he's drunk or trying a new build or not playing seriously. a foreigner could 20-0 a korean and it still wouldn't matter, people would just post brainless excuses
as i predicted at the release of lotv, the game being much harder than hots has caused the typical game to contain many more mistakes and misplays due to more intensive ability casting and multitasking. when foreigners screw up they're bad players, when koreans screw up there's always a magical reason
congrats to kelazhur on his very impressive achievement. Yeah, all the people you see here are the people that don't understand how to have a discussion. It's just twich chat culture taken to a forum, so good luck having any meaningful content these days with all these comments. Funny, this applies to brickrd's post far more than it does to any of the ones countering his laughable claims. It was probably not the ideal way to put thoughts on paper but I am not surprised people are fed up and annoyed with some sub-communities that formed and are very loud. Talking to players behind the scenes pretty much nobody says a good word about community approach these days(TL/ Reddit). When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community. I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet? come on, it's just banter. without that the scene would be boring What's the difference between shit talk and banter? As far as I can tell, banter is when you fail to follow through while it's legit shit talk if you succeed? Yeah no, don't work like that.
I always thought it was the opposite. Banter is when you have the muscle to back up your mouth (also has a more friendly connotation). If not, you're just talking shit and can be dismissed as such, i.e. "Talk shit, get hit."
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When a bunch of foreigners shit-talk on stage against the Koreans and then get destroyed 1-7, those cocky shit-talking foreigners deserve all the negative feedback from the community.
I have said this before: The foreigners talk big but don't do shit. This statement most certainly includes you. Have you changed the perception of foreigners yet?
Confidence in one's ability to win is very important in order to win. That's not to say that anyone can be 100% sure that they'll win a game, but if you think you're going to lose then you've probably lost already.
Thoughts are a real thing, they occupy a 'space'. So if your driving thought is: I can win, chances are your follow up thoughts and preparation will be in line with your goal. So you may then spend thoughts, even while dreaming: HOW can I win, how can I give myself the best chance, you may fe study your opponent, you'll perhaps analyze their strengths to avoid and weaknesses to exploit. I won't pretend to understand the unconscious processes we undergo, but if you condition yourself to win, I'd wager your body will also adapt accordingly to aid your mind in it's goal.
On the flipside if you actually think: I can't win, then chances are you won't be actively trying to figure out how to win, or what could give you the best chance. If you actually think you can't win, why prepare? Why show up? Why play the match? To simplify it even more I ask you: How can both thoughts - one that says you can't win, and another trying to figure out how to win both occupy your head space simultaneously? Even if you could alternate between thinking that you can/can't win, every thought used on "I can't win" will be a wasted thought that you didn't spend on "how can I win".
So, every player should always believe that they can win, or they'll be playing at a disadvantage. When people say "confidence is important" it doesn't mean "this intangible could be important". Because even though we may struggle to measure thoughts we know that they exist and that they occupy a space, for further proof - the voice you hear in your head right now, be that yours or mine is probably the only voice in your head at this point in time.
So now that I've explained part of why I think that players greatly benefit from thinking that they can / will win at whatever point in time they're pitted against their opponent (and most successful competitive players of any sport will share this mindset), what are you upset about? About them thinking that they can win? surely not... About them saying it out-loud? well that's sort of the point of the interview mate.
So now we move on to the last barrier here, which is the cultural one. Believe it or not, based on where you're born and who you hang out with you will adopt behaviors that your surrounding culture / society has set. I imagine this would be difficult to notice without knowing / having lived in different places and experienced different cultures.
Every group of people will collectively draw invisible lines in the sand that they deem appropriate or inappropriate to cross. Where I am from (Peru) there is a lot more dissing and shaming, among friends and foes both, people in general tend to be very blunt - like anything else it has advantages and disadvantages but that's another long pack of thoughts.
On the opposite end of the spectrum you have cultures like Korea, where people tend to be far more reserved/mild, especially in public. The lines of what is/isn't proper or acceptable are different for someone born and raised in Korea and someone born and raised in x western culture, to varying degrees. Another clear example you can see in sc2, is girls who cover their faces when the camera is on them, Korean girls do because Korean culture will often shame them or objectify them, non-korean girls don't really react in the same way, because different culture / different conditioning, different cause-effect for the same actions, in this case the action being "you are on camera". Culture isn't exclusive to nations, TL will have it's own culture and reward/punishment systems. For example if I swear too much or insult you too much I could get a warning or a ban - Since I don't want a warning or a ban, i'll try to walk the line. With that simple mechanic of X is the rule or X is acceptable and not falling in line with X will result in a negative consequence, my behavior and thoughts HAVE to adapt to suit my environment (in this case - Team Liquid). We are also our averages, so the more you act or think a certain way, the more it becomes who you are.
For me, "I will show my fans good game" isn't a good enough interview, it says nothing, it's too mild. To Koreans it's just proper, it's what their culture, relative in this instance to gaming interviews / show of confidence dictates. If someone shows themselves as 'too confident' they might be shamed for doing just that, so that they align with the invisible lines Korean Culture has decided to draw in the sand.
I am used to blunt, to real. If the players think they're going to win (and they fucking SHOULD), then that's what I want to hear in their interview, the more spices they pack the more entertained I will be, because that's what I've been conditioned to be entertained by, and bud if you think you can do better than the best foreigners playing the game then the floor is yours, it's easy to judge and criticize based on what you believe, and honestly - you should, because that's how culture is formed and that's how it shifts - if it'll help, think of culture in this instance as a single entity composed of all the people in it, then take the average and boom you have your invisible lines, then comes things like politics and other mechanisms designed to help update, shift, adapt, "advance" culture and a society to help the law reflect that collective average.
These are my thoughts on the matter, my intend is to provide you (and anyone else who cares to read this) with some perspective based on my experience, both as someone who likes to spend time and head space actively think about shit like this and someone who has experienced many cultures extensively with the hope that you use this perspective to re-think your stance and maybe be less judgmental next time
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EPT
