EPT
Afreeca SC2 team disbands
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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killerm12
Slovakia601 Posts
 at least  Patience gave them a nice farewell | ||
Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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KatatoniK
United Kingdom978 Posts
Now we really only have Jin Air still going. I know MVP said they're not disbanding but something seems off about that. Forte wasn't in his MVP gear for VSL. Pet doesn't seem to be in the team house when he streams and again, isn't in team gear. Then there's the fact there's MVP players streaming on Twitch. Didn't they have a deal with Azubu? | ||
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[16thSq] Kuro
1214 Posts
On November 21 2016 18:34 KatatoniK wrote: Damn, I felt Afreeca would keep their team going seeing as they sponsor the GSL. Sad news. Hope all the Afreeca boys land on their feet and stay in the scene. Now we really only have Jin Air still going. I know MVP said they're not disbanding but something seems off about that. Forte wasn't in his MVP gear for VSL. Pet doesn't seem to be in the team house when he streams and again, isn't in team gear. Then there's the fact there's MVP players streaming on Twitch. Didn't they have a deal with Azubu? Yeah, I thought Afreeca would want to keep a roster since they continue GSL ;; Ah well As for MVP, I think for now they're just waiting to see how the situation develops. I don't have high hopes though. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On November 21 2016 18:34 KatatoniK wrote: Damn, I felt Afreeca would keep their team going seeing as they sponsor the GSL. Sad news. Hope all the Afreeca boys land on their feet and stay in the scene. Now we really only have Jin Air still going. I know MVP said they're not disbanding but something seems off about that. Forte wasn't in his MVP gear for VSL. Pet doesn't seem to be in the team house when he streams and again, isn't in team gear. Then there's the fact there's MVP players streaming on Twitch. Didn't they have a deal with Azubu? Probably safe to say MVP will close up shop soon too. Probably just giving their players a bit more time to try help them out. Don't know how long JA will stick around either at this point. Will be an interesting year next year! | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
All I wished for was seeing these guys life during my trip to Korea (which will be not before next year) Seems like this won't happen. | ||
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Dungeontay
126 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 21 2016 18:39 Ansibled wrote: I'm not sure teams make sense without a team league anyway. The VSL looked really strong but I don't know about their viewers.. On November 21 2016 18:42 KeksX wrote: Not surprising, true. But still makes me really worried for GSL as I had hoped they wouldn't disband until GSL ends. All I wished for was seeing these guys life during my trip to Korea (which will be not before next year) Seems like this won't happen.As scary as this is, the GSL is a totally different deal. I'm not gonna say GSL is invulnerable and they aren't puckering up but it's the tournament. On November 21 2016 18:54 Dungeontay wrote: news about a korean team disbanding in a dead environment doesnt surprise anybody i think. If you cant beat the koreans, just ruin everything SC2 related they have and kill the game in their country. GG Blizz, gg. Yeah because SC2 was totally OK then WCS happened and it suddenly died. | ||
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Crocolisk Dundee
870 Posts
Congratulations to Patience for winning a major championship for the team before they disbanded. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
http://sports.news.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=109&aid=0003436028 | ||
GTR
51446 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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notgayDragon
142 Posts
I'm sad because it's all ending. I'm angry because the response to a lack of national tournaments was to ban Korean from other tournaments, leaving them with (at the time) only three premier tournaments. SSL and Proleague are owned by the same name, with Proleague gone and no SSL announcements at all I'm very worried for the future of Korean SC2. They can't survive on GSL and Home Story Cup | ||
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Penev
28475 Posts
On November 21 2016 18:31 Phredxor wrote: I mean at least it's not surprising to anybody. not surprised but if there would be one team I had hope for not to disband it was Afreeca considering they sponsor the GSL Will there be anything left of the Korean scene in 2017? | ||
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rqPlan
Nicaragua42 Posts
On November 21 2016 18:54 Dungeontay wrote: news about a korean team disbanding in a dead environment doesnt surprise anybody i think. If you cant beat the koreans, just ruin everything SC2 related they have and kill the game in their country. GG Blizz, gg. User was temp banned for this post. Only mediocre design and balance are to blame. | ||
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notgayDragon
142 Posts
On November 21 2016 20:40 rqPlan wrote: Only mediocre design and balance are to blame. Someone over in the BW forum referred to it as "an endless carousel of balance changes" and that has stuck with me since. | ||
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beentheredonethat
2934 Posts
. Farewell, Afreeca SC2. It is really tempting to blame the WCS lock although I am sure that I as a casual who's not deeply involved do not have the full picture. If only more people were interested. | ||
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trada
Germany347 Posts
was blizzcon/HSC the last hurrah of SC2? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24201 Posts
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xtorn
4060 Posts
The korean scene is full of incredibly talented players... On November 21 2016 18:38 Phredxor wrote: Probably safe to say MVP will close up shop soon too. Probably just giving their players a bit more time to try help them out. Don't know how long JA will stick around either at this point. Will be an interesting year next year! Are MVP And JA the last 2 teams standing at the moment, to compete in the hopefully upcoming GSL? | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On November 21 2016 20:54 notgayDragon wrote: Someone over in the BW forum referred to it as "an endless carousel of balance changes" and that has stuck with me since. Or "the community wanted this wow style balance"  | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
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Espartaquen
88 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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sharkie
Austria18401 Posts
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
But seriously, this was a long slow process but we knew it for quite some time. We didnt want it to be true but we could feel it in our bones. It just makes me sad to think about all the things SC2 could have been and then having to see what it actually became. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On November 21 2016 20:54 notgayDragon wrote: Someone over in the BW forum referred to it as "an endless carousel of balance changes" and that has stuck with me since. So are Overwatch, League and all the other games massively more succesful than both BW and SC2 together. Let's not get into an armchair design disussion again. We're all losing here as eSports fans, not the time to get into these types of discussions again. Already have threads for those. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 21 2016 22:53 RoomOfMush wrote: So at which point will it become acceptable to talk about "daed gaeme" without getting banned? But seriously, this was a long slow process but we knew it for quite some time. We didnt want it to be true but we could feel it in our bones. It just makes me sad to think about all the things SC2 could have been and then having to see what it actually became. You can talk about SC2 being in decline and the problems it's facing. If you look closely you'll see that discussed every week. It's about not being a meme-rific spastic about how you express yourself. Calling David Kim a glue sniffing dumbass might feel good but it does not help anyone and encourages people to treat the place like a twitch chat. Calling David Kim out on snuffing community feedback over the reaper and balking at the idea that these complaints are new and only a gut response to the WCS Finals on the other hand has gotten a free pass. His credibility as a community leader and game designer is questioned in both posts but in the latter it is expressed concisely and without sounding childish. daedgame lmao isn't conducive to discussion and lowers everyone down to the posters level. If that way of expressing your concern was given the OK then it would undermine discussion and create an atmosphere in which people do not want to participate on this site. As long as you express yourself and don't live to shit on Starcraft then I think your posts will go over okay on a starcraft site. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16838 Posts
I will forever be salty about that one PvT on Entombed Valley. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
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Azhrak
Finland1195 Posts
On November 21 2016 22:53 RoomOfMush wrote: I think you can always talk about it if you have something meaningful to say. Repeating the meme doesn't count as discussion. I guess some people are just disappointed that their game isn't as big as it used to, and spill out negative comments out of frustration of having little power (and motivation) to help the situation. Personally I don't care how dead people tell me the game is, since SC2 is certainly going to fare at least as well as WC3, AoE2, Quake, and some other smaller games still having an audience and committed players.So at which point will it become acceptable to talk about "daed gaeme" without getting banned? | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
It's unfortunate that SC2 had to take this turn. As much as I love SC2 and the whole SC franchise it's time for a small indie company or anyone at this point trying to make a new RTS where they are not bounded by heavy weight or some legacy or expectations and hope the crowd joins them. There needs to be alternatives and competition. At this point Blizzard IS the competitive RTS genre and this is it :-( It's heartbreaking seeing the Korean teams disband. | ||
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ilililililililiii
United States93 Posts
*rocks back and forth curled up* one day good news will come its ok.. one day good news will come | ||
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Trizztein1
28 Posts
I'm an active player and community organizer where I come from. I support local talent financially and morally, go to lan events, dreamhacks and so on. I believe RTS genre still has potential to refresh itself beyond the perfect ice sculpture that BW seems to be. I believe a basis of players like me will always remain with that craving for renewed RTS genre even if it thins out during some periods. Retraction often has to precede or follow growth. I don't despair at all. SC2 alive game. | ||
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AKAvg
Brazil298 Posts
On November 21 2016 23:56 ilililililililiii wrote: one day good news will come *rocks back and forth curled up* one day good news will come its ok.. one day good news will come The fact that smaller, online tournaments are(were) still running is good news. Teams in EU and NA are still standing too. And that's about it. Best case scenario, things will stay as they are. | ||
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
On November 22 2016 00:24 Trizztein1 wrote: I am not going back to individually rallying workers or being to managing max 12 units at once. I want the freedom SC2 gives me. I want a dynamic game where people may call it imba, but where there is constant work done to re achieve best compromise between the viewer's interest and the casual as well as semi pro or pro player. Maybe David Kim is not the most talented at his job there may be, but he does read the forums and reads inputs. Also keeps us posted on updates in a very direct way. I'm an active player and community organizer where I come from. I support local talent financially and morally, go to lan events, dreamhacks and so on. I believe RTS genre still has potential to refresh itself beyond the perfect ice sculpture that BW seems to be. I believe a basis of players like me will always remain with that craving for renewed RTS genre even if it thins out during some periods. Retraction often has to precede or follow growth. I don't despair at all. SC2 alive game. But, imo, his biggest fault is wanting everything to work at once. I remember in one of his latest press releases; he kept describing how we should be able to see (and use) more different styles of play. From mech in every match up, to same thing for skytoss it doesn't make a lot of sense. Too many units/abilities renders the end balance equation impossible. And for how long did Terrans dominate sc1? (korean scene), just seems futile to attempt. I mean protoss players for years called for a balance for pvz but it was never granted, then bisu (i better remember this right or let the flame commence), mainstreamed the FE- not saying it is or isn't balanced; it just changed it. Upon reading that DTs get blink I just facepalmed. It might look cool but should the game only become about entertainment value from spectators who in majority either do not even play or do so at a very casual (generally low) level? It's a complicated vicious cercle type dillema but for better or for worse it will be hard for a RTS to attract more money than some of the other genres (even if it is, for me, one of the best), they should stop trying- I mean it should be enough to own the RTS market instead of thinking how it measures up to FPS or Dota style games. | ||
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sa1Ko
Argentina99 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2641 Posts
Even now SC2 is way bigger than BW ever was. Blizzard does needs to make SC2 global, the only way KR players can survive is by giving them more chances todo play. KR teams will not come back but player will be capable of staying. | ||
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sh1RoKen
Russian Federation93 Posts
1. Become a senior game designer of the game. 2. Don't realize that you are not in a year 1998 and you have to compete with MOBAs for your potential player base. 3. Don't realize that 97% of your potential player base are casual players which will be playing in Silver league or below. 4. Make the game in such a way that 97% of your potential player base feels miserable playing the game and it is literally feels like working on a job for them. 5. Make the game in such a way that 97% of your potential player base spends 97% of their game time fighting with extremely boring and extremely hard PvE mechanics without any direct contact with their opponent. 6. Add a couple instant lose mechanics that punishes 97% of your potential player base for less than 1 second of inattention. Make this mechanics as frustrating as possible. 7. Don't realize the obvious correlation between the Player base -> Viewer base -> Sponsorship base -> Money investment for Esports events -> ProPlayer base -> Being a competitive sport. 8. Admit that you have completed Step 7: Our main goal for StarCraft 2 is to create the best game of its type that it can ever be, and not necessarily selling more copies of the game or increasing the playerbase. © David Kim Source: + Show Spoiler + http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20749787793 9. By completing Step 8 ruin a professional gaming carrier for every pro player in a country which had your franchise being more popular than any other sport including football. 10. Stay calm like nothing happened. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 22 2016 00:56 Lexender wrote: Even now SC2 is way bigger than BW ever was. Uhh... if you're referring to your particular country or whatever, sure. Overall? Not even close. Sorry bud. | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On November 21 2016 22:53 RoomOfMush wrote: So at which point will it become acceptable to talk about "daed gaeme" without getting banned? But seriously, this was a long slow process but we knew it for quite some time. We didnt want it to be true but we could feel it in our bones. It just makes me sad to think about all the things SC2 could have been and then having to see what it actually became. I don't think SC2 could have become anything more than it did at its peak around 2012-2014. It singlehandedly pushed eSports into mainstream attention, and eventually got overtaken by the more team-oriented and more accessible MOBA games. If 2016 turns out to be the final year SC2 still had somewhat good content I will have been glad to have been part of this for the past six years. I'll miss it but it's been a great ride. Considering the current state of the gaming industry it is a small miracle the game managed to stick around for as long as it did I think. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On November 22 2016 01:37 207aicila wrote: Uhh... if you're referring to your particular country or whatever, sure. Overall? Not even close. Sorry bud. What are you sorry for, bud? What's the state of non-Korean scene in BW? | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3423 Posts
On November 22 2016 02:00 aQuaSC wrote: What are you sorry for, bud? What's the state of non-Korean scene in BW? In terms of overall numbers SC2 is crushing BW. A fuckload of people still play this game. BW is doing approx. twice as good as SC2 in Korea (at least when it comes to popularity in PC bangs) - pretty much only in Korea; It's still peanuts compared to popular games. I love BW and have enjoyed its Korean resurgence very much, but there's no point in making it bigger than it really is. | ||
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tokinho
United States792 Posts
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[16thSq] Kuro
1214 Posts
On November 22 2016 00:41 sa1Ko wrote: I would expect massive retirements , but this is not happening . That´s a positive side. Let's hope it stays that way but many are probably waiting with the decision for the WCS news. | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
On November 22 2016 02:00 aQuaSC wrote: What are you sorry for, bud? What's the state of non-Korean scene in BW? The magnitude of SC2's foreign esport scene is about 25% that of Korea SC2 in terms of competition, production, and viewership. Even at the last 2 years of BW broadcasting, BW viewership is still so much better than SC2's peak. Its not even questionable. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 22 2016 02:00 aQuaSC wrote: What's the state of non-Korean scene in BW? Who cares? Not us, the actual fans. What you're putting on the table is a non-argument. | ||
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Skytale1i
31 Posts
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On November 22 2016 02:40 207aicila wrote: Who cares? Not us, the actual fans. What you're putting on the table is a non-argument. Where the hell did you see an argument here? That was a question on the state of non-Korean scene in Brood War, if you're saying that SC2 is not even close to BW popularity even now then you have to have some source on that, don't you? That was a legitimate question, asked because I'm curious, to me BW never was that internationally popular, it was mostly enclosed in Korea. There BW was bigger at it's peak than SC2 of course, but I don't think it was the case for outside of it | ||
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-IAEVAI-KolosS
Canada60 Posts
BW is doing approx. twice as good as SC2 in Korea (at least when it comes to popularity in PC bangs) - pretty much only in Korea; It's still peanuts compared to popular games. [/QUOTE] Just my two cents, but statement like these where people say "Twice as much" or throw random percentages in the air like "Broodwar's popularity is 25% less than ..." means ABSOLUTELY nothing without any sources because they are stated as facts. If you were to formulate the argument like this instead: "I feel like it must be twice as ... " then it indicates a personnal feeling and not and studied fact. | ||
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juvenal
2448 Posts
On November 22 2016 02:45 aQuaSC wrote: Where the hell did you see an argument here? That was a question on the state of non-Korean scene in Brood War, if you're saying that SC2 is not even close to BW popularity even now then you have to have some source on that, don't you? That was a legitimate question, asked because I'm curious, to me BW never was that internationally popular, it was mostly enclosed in Korea. There BW was bigger at it's peak than SC2 of course, but I don't think it was the case for outside of it the state of non-Korean BW is pretty much the same as the state of non-American baseball. BW indeed was mostly big in Korea for 2 obvious reasons: Koreans were much better players and esports as you know it now was non-existent outside of Korea. E.g. Blizzard sponsored zero Dreamhacks. | ||
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cutler
Germany609 Posts
Always sad to see a team disbanding. Good luck to the players to find a new opportunity. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On November 22 2016 01:59 maartendq wrote: I don't think SC2 could have become anything more than it did at its peak around 2012-2014. It singlehandedly pushed eSports into mainstream attention, and eventually got overtaken by the more team-oriented and more accessible MOBA games. If 2016 turns out to be the final year SC2 still had somewhat good content I will have been glad to have been part of this for the past six years. I'll miss it but it's been a great ride. Considering the current state of the gaming industry it is a small miracle the game managed to stick around for as long as it did I think. I think it could have been more. Dont get me wrong, I loved SC2 when it was still WoL. I had a lot of fun, great game. But over the years, patch by patch, I got more and more disappointed. My personal vision of what SC2 should be like and blizzards vision were too far apart. Judging from how things are going with SC2 I think its fair to assume I am not the only one feeling this way. It simply isnt a game for me. But I refuse to accept it could not have been one. Saying things are impossible is just a lame excuse for not trying hard enough. | ||
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r_gg
141 Posts
On November 21 2016 18:34 KatatoniK wrote: Damn, I felt Afreeca would keep their team going seeing as they sponsor the GSL. Sad news. Hope all the Afreeca boys land on their feet and stay in the scene. Now we really only have Jin Air still going. I know MVP said they're not disbanding but something seems off about that. Forte wasn't in his MVP gear for VSL. Pet doesn't seem to be in the team house when he streams and again, isn't in team gear. Then there's the fact there's MVP players streaming on Twitch. Didn't they have a deal with Azubu? Yeah about this..... the original interview that said they aren't disbanding got pulled from the sources and their coach Choya seems to have left MVP and started streaming on Afreeca. | ||
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Slydie
1915 Posts
1: Multiplayer RTS is a very difficult genre to both learn and master, and it takes a lot of commitment to play well and improve. You can't just pick it up, and you get out of shape quickly. 2: It is not a good team game, all big e-sports titles are. The social part is very important (my clan was formed in peep mode.) 3: The whole concept is more or less unchanged since Warcraft: orcs and humans and Dune 2 in the early 90s. The allmighty army-commander concept does not sit as well with younger generations, all other RTS franchises approve. Once, Age of Empires and Command and Conquer were the games kids talked about. Not anymore... However, I think you can probably still get a good ladder ecperience in SC2 20 years from now, as it is a very well done game with a strong community. How is Warcraft 2 battle net edition doing? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On November 22 2016 05:22 dAPhREAk wrote: hear of this team for the first time saturday during the homestory cup. That's fairly impressive. | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
On November 22 2016 05:16 Slydie wrote: You guys talk so much about balance, David Kim, design etc. It is not about that, trust me! I am a medicore player which got to plat once, but do not play much atm, and neither do I watch many pro games. This is my theories for the decline: 1: Multiplayer RTS is a very difficult genre to both learn and master, and it takes a lot of commitment to play well and improve. You can't just pick it up, and you get out of shape quickly. 2: It is not a good team game, all big e-sports titles are. The social part is very important (my clan was formed in peep mode.) 3: The whole concept is more or less unchanged since Warcraft: orcs and humans and Dune 2 in the early 90s. The allmighty army-commander concept does not sit as well with younger generations, all other RTS franchises approve. Once, Age of Empires and Command and Conquer were the games kids talked about. Not anymore... However, I think you can probably still get a good ladder ecperience in SC2 20 years from now, as it is a very well done game with a strong community. How is Warcraft 2 battle net edition doing? The problem is that SC2 didn't manage to capture the BW/WC3 audience. SC2 had a real chance of connecting the WC3 scene with the BW scene. I would love if SC2 burrowed ideals from both WC3 and BW's best qualities. But SC2 tried to be its thing which didn't carve out the said audiences. And while Blizzard fought vs Kespa, LoL came in during the chaos and stole the heart of the youngsters. I think Blizzard killed SC2's chance before it even got a chance in Korea and meanwhile, they killed the BW scene too. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
dont really follow sc2 that much anymore, but always watch homestory cup. =D | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On November 22 2016 03:59 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm surprised these teams aren't keeping like one or two players. There's still GSL and presumably other tournaments so why not keep you're one of two best? Is GSL going though? I know afreeca said there WOULD be a GSL next year but how can you hold a GSL with no players to play it? | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On November 22 2016 05:45 dAPhREAk wrote: dont really follow sc2 that much anymore, but always watch homestory cup. =D They're quite literally Startale, just renamed with a different title sponsor after Sbenu bailed. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On November 22 2016 03:59 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm surprised these teams aren't keeping like one or two players. There's still GSL and presumably other tournaments so why not keep you're one of two best? I would assume that next GSL will be played because everything was already booked and that 2017 will have the last GSL's. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On November 22 2016 05:46 showstealer1829 wrote: Is GSL going though? I know afreeca said there WOULD be a GSL next year but how can you hold a GSL with no players to play it? There are still players. Just teamless ones. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2641 Posts
On November 22 2016 05:40 RealityIsKing wrote: The problem is that SC2 didn't manage to capture the BW/WC3 audience. SC2 had a real chance of connecting the WC3 scene with the BW scene. I would love if SC2 burrowed ideals from both WC3 and BW's best qualities. But SC2 tried to be its thing which didn't carve out the said audiences. And while Blizzard fought vs Kespa, LoL came in during the chaos and stole the heart of the youngsters. I think Blizzard killed SC2's chance before it even got a chance in Korea and meanwhile, they killed the BW scene too. LoL is miles more different to BW and WC3, not even the same genre. Also LoL is loaded with patches reworks and aditions, compared to that SC2 changes where barely a fraction, even now LoL keeps reworking and redesigning champions and items, adding new stuff and even deleting existing items. SC2 changes pale in comparison to that. | ||
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horrypotter
11 Posts
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
On November 22 2016 06:51 Lexender wrote: LoL is miles more different to BW and WC3, not even the same genre. Also LoL is loaded with patches reworks and aditions, compared to that SC2 changes where barely a fraction, even now LoL keeps reworking and redesigning champions and items, adding new stuff and even deleting existing items. SC2 changes pale in comparison to that. Never said that they were the same genre. Was stating the fact that because of the space created from Blizzard's argument with Kespa, LoL took advantage of that. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On November 22 2016 07:24 horrypotter wrote: in this thread, we can see the biggest reason why SC2 has declined: community's insane negativity. Negativity comes from somewhere. It has to grow over time. In this case its disappointment. The negativity is not the source, its a symptom. | ||
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Shana
Indonesia1814 Posts
History repeat itself. | ||
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Carminedust
487 Posts
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On November 22 2016 07:49 RoomOfMush wrote: Negativity comes from somewhere. It has to grow over time. In this case its disappointment. The negativity is not the source, its a symptom. Oh I would argue with that actually | ||
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
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Poly_Optimize
Canada156 Posts
10 years ago, we had the same discussions about BW dying: - many players were stopping playing BW (Elki, Grrr, ..) - many teams were disbanding (pG, rS, mym, korean team..) - many tournaments were disbanding (wgt, pgt,..) After every announcement, everybody were saying BW was a dead game. Yet it is still very popular nowadays. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 22 2016 22:52 Poly_Optimize wrote: SC2 is a 6 years old game. It is normal that players, teams, tournaments stop or disband over time. It is a normal process that more and more players stop playing it after so many years because they will want to try something new. 10 years ago, we had the same discussions about BW dying: - many players were stopping playing BW (Elki, Grrr, ..) - many teams were disbanding (pG, rS, mym, korean team..) - many tournaments were disbanding (wgt, pgt,..) After every announcement, everybody were saying BW was a dead game. Yet it is still very popular nowadays. Those players and teams in BW were being replaced over time though, which is worryingly what we don't see happening in SC2 right now. It's a different situation | ||
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Slydie
1915 Posts
On November 22 2016 07:36 RealityIsKing wrote: Never said that they were the same genre. Was stating the fact that because of the space created from Blizzard's argument with Kespa, LoL took advantage of that. No, it comes down to the playerbase and genre. LoL is a ftp team game you can pick up and enjoy, goofing around controlling one guy killing npcs, and if you lose, you can always blame your teammates! In both WC2 and SC I ended up playing mods and 4v4 moneymaps in the end. The ladder in rts games is simply too stressful! I bet someone in Blizzard is banging their heads for not making actual tower defence and MOBA games much earlier... | ||
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Trizztein1
28 Posts
On November 22 2016 07:49 RoomOfMush wrote: Negativity comes from somewhere. It has to grow over time. In this case its disappointment. The negativity is not the source, its a symptom. Agreed. I don't think LoL or CS:GO players ever dwelve on bad management causing impopularity of their games, do they? Or even smaller games with smaller fan base who just don't aim for the extra large audiences? | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On November 22 2016 07:24 horrypotter wrote: in this thread, we can see the biggest reason why SC2 has declined: community's insane negativity. Actually, part of the reason SC2 has declined is that people believe it is the insane negativity, when in reality, it isn't and they aren't calling out the bad game design decisions. SC2 isn't being designed well compared to other modern games. There is a reason people love how LoL is designed. It has negativity too, but it a really fun game that draws people in. SC2 pushes people away. On November 22 2016 05:16 Slydie wrote: You guys talk so much about balance, David Kim, design etc... 1: Multiplayer RTS is a very difficult genre to both learn and master, and it takes a lot of commitment to play well and improve. You can't just pick it up, and you get out of shape quickly. You're wrong and right. Multiplayer is too hard and it doesn't need to be, but that in fact is a game design problem. SC2 doesn't need to be that hard to master. League is really hard to play at the top level, but it is playable and enjoyable for lower level players too. SC2 often feels like the game is out of control for lower level players. When you have the best players in the world telling David Kim the game is too hard, and Blizzard ignores them, then you have ignorant design team. On November 23 2016 05:24 Trizztein1 wrote: Agreed. I don't think LoL or CS:GO players ever dwelve on bad management causing impopularity of their games, do they? Or even smaller games with smaller fan base who just don't aim for the extra large audiences? Game design issues are not causing issues with unpopularity in League or Counterstrike as they are in Starcraft. Like TheDwf said, the game was built for viewers at this point. But viewers generally love to play the games they watch, and people aren't loving SC2 anymore. | ||
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notgayDragon
142 Posts
Blizzard and the speaking side of the community spent the better part of five years with their heads up their asses not listening to one another, if SC2 had released this way it would be much more successful. | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
On November 22 2016 08:54 Shana wrote: Basically wc3 all over again. BW still alive despite the newer game comes out and the Korean players playing on foreign team, competing on foreign tournaments and it still popular in region not named Korea. History repeat itself. Theres no WC3L in Sc2. The competition between, MYM, WE, 4K, SK etc back then was way more interesting than anything non-proleague in Sc2. | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 27 2016 14:30 Thouhastmail wrote: This news reminds me of something; It's a shame I took an oath of secrecy, because I got some news about a person who was related to this team. Oh come on that's such a tease you have to tell us now | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 22 2016 22:52 Poly_Optimize wrote: 10 years ago, we had the same discussions about BW dying: Are you kidding me? This is so not true lol. On November 23 2016 00:24 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Those players and teams in BW were being replaced over time though, which is worryingly what we don't see happening in SC2 right now. It's a different situation 100% correct. | ||
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