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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
Nerf Z/P = Good Buff Z/P = Bad Buff T = Good. I don't get the logic except most of the voter are terrans (like all SC2 forum nowadays). Tempest change is good ? It's good the tempest will be useless ? Speed banshee, we all know it's broken. Battlecruiser buff will never make them useful, but seem as it's a terran buff it's good ? Same for thor. Hydras, i'm really surprised they see it as a good change : Zerg will crush Protoss (and i'm zerg), don't think it's balanced. | ||
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Frankenberry
Denmark302 Posts
Especially the tank damage buff is in my opinion a horrible change. I just pray that bio will still be overall superior vs. mech so I won't play against to many mech players since it's so boring. Enough to make one quit the game. Also the cyclone is a lot less interesting now -.- The only change I really like is the ultralisk one. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On November 15 2016 08:32 Tyrhanius wrote: Well the vote seems to be just : Nerf Z/P = Good Buff Z/P = Bad Buff T = Good. I don't get the logic except most of the voter are terrans (like all SC2 forum nowadays). Tempest change is good ? It's good the tempest will be useless ? Speed banshee, we all know it's broken. Battlecruiser buff will never make them useful, but seem as it's a terran buff it's good ? Same for thor. Hydras, i'm really surprised they see it as a good change : Zerg will crush Protoss (and i'm zerg), don't think it's balanced. I noticed it as well. As a zerg player it easier for me to address the Z match ups, for ZvT now its about terran strengths in the mid game, but if a zerg player can get to the late game with a large enough eco then it turns hard for a terran player (some terrans manage the tools they have for these stage, but there aren't that many, even on the pro level). Well, the changes nerfed the late game zerg and buffed the mid game zerg, so in the late game terran will be more confident with Zerg while getting there as a zerg player will be easier. Or may be games will last longer in the mid stage. Terran has way more options now in the mid game (mech options), so the games will be way more diverse. I think its good. For ZvP it seems like protoss will struggle. For me ZvP is the weakest match-up, but it seems not that the options of a protoss player is putting a lot of pressure in the early game and get all those buffed units behind it. I think protoss must be buffed so that ZvP won't be so one sided. As well as TvP, as terran just got a lot of buffs, while protoss was nerfed in the early game, remained a bit same in the middle game, and their buffs related only for the late game. So the strength of the terran in the early game will make TvP broken just as ZvP will be. In other words Protoss will need some buffs to the early game (something which will cover for the adept nerf), and some some kind of a buff which will deal with the hydra ling bane or terran early bio pressure. It is just theorycrafting, I played the test map, but things aren't figured out there yet. But the polls really show that most of the voters are probably terran players. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
If all they did was nerf adept and buff mech and make the swarm host a reasonable unit, this patch would be fine. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On November 15 2016 10:59 emc wrote: adept shade nerf is the best change here If all they did was nerf adept and buff mech and make the swarm host a reasonable unit, this patch would be fine. While I believe the Adept is far too strong, it isn't the vision that needs to be addressed, it is the cooldown of the ability. It is a shockingly poor decision to nerf only the vision because it takes away a key component that allows the ability to be used skillfully, and makes it more a roll of the dice to use it. Those are the kind of decision that are destroying SC2 and making it not fun to play, because players lose control. And, of course, it doesn't address the early game harass potential much. The cooldown just needs to be much higher. | ||
Poopi
France13023 Posts
A lot of good individual changes don't necessarily translate into a good overall change. | ||
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The Bottle
242 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On November 16 2016 06:15 The Bottle wrote: There's no poll for the raven change (as of this post). Yup, probably the worst change of them all as well. | ||
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ilililililililiii
United States93 Posts
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pzlama333
United States282 Posts
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Blargh
United States2104 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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Blargh
United States2104 Posts
On November 16 2016 07:40 starslayer wrote: what people aren't realizing is that when they buff mech, players wont have to turtle,yes there will be those players but the idea is that they dont have to turtle for 20-30 mins just to win. with new or old cyclones and stronger tank mech terran ideally will be able to move out on to the map and do something but ofc ppl hate mech so much because of players like avilo that they dont care if its aggresive or not. I think the problem comes from whether or not turtling is the safest and "optimal" choice. Even if moving out and doing frequent pushes is "viable", if it's better to just sit tight till near max, and then go out with a super deadly army, that's what people are going to do. But we'll have to see! Mech dynamics are a bit different than they were in HotS, and I feel like the options against mech are there. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On November 16 2016 07:40 starslayer wrote: what people aren't realizing is that when they buff mech, players wont have to turtle,yes there will be those players but the idea is that they dont have to turtle for 20-30 mins just to win. with new or old cyclones and stronger tank mech terran ideally will be able to move out on to the map and do something but ofc ppl hate mech so much because of players like avilo that they dont care if its aggresive or not. The thing is, you say this like people aren't going to go for the easier option. The nature of mech in SC2 just makes it easier to turtle, because you have the stronger army and defensive structures. Mech's defensive advantage is outragous. If you couple that with aggressive potential you get an even better way to turtle. Giving mech aggressive tools is not going to make mech players play aggressively - it's just going to make their life easier turtling and harrassing at the same time. On November 16 2016 07:48 Blargh wrote: But we'll have to see! Mech dynamics are a bit different than they were in HotS, and I feel like the options against mech are there. LotV, at least to me, seems to be the exact same thing it was HotS with more drops and runbies. | ||
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Odowan Paleolithic
United States232 Posts
On November 15 2016 01:52 [PkF] Wire wrote: Don't know about anything. Some things are definitely sensible (for instance 6 supply tempests, armor ultra nerf, which are long overdue), some look really strange to me (hello blink DTs or speed banshees). I would need to play the balance test map extensively to give a legit opinion but it's excruciatingly hard to find opponents, queues are like 10 minutes. I can count at least 20 games. But waiting is hell and I played the same guys 3 to 6 times. + Show Spoiler + I'm sick of all those armchair generals that don't even use their apms. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On November 15 2016 13:59 BronzeKnee wrote: While I believe the Adept is far too strong, it isn't the vision that needs to be addressed, it is the cooldown of the ability. It is a shockingly poor decision to nerf only the vision because it takes away a key component that allows the ability to be used skillfully, and makes it more a roll of the dice to use it. Those are the kind of decision that are destroying SC2 and making it not fun to play, because players lose control. And, of course, it doesn't address the early game harass potential much. The cooldown just needs to be much higher. I think a cooldown nerf would have been far more appropriate yeah. Here you take away something interesting about the unit (the scouting possibilities). Of course the abuse potential is nerfed (it's far more risky to shade into something you get a 2 radius vision of) but imo the cooldown solution would have been 11 times more elegant. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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