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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/amLu2gv.jpg)
Guru removed from True Esports
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
The comment in question: + Show Spoiler +
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36955 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 10 2016 05:45 Musicus wrote: haha, with screenshot, gj SGTK :D I stole it from Reddit. Credits to xJustxJordanx for it | ||
Poopi
France12761 Posts
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pr1de
38 Posts
Not that i allow it to be correct, but i cant say he is wrong if its his opinion, and i think alot of people share that same one. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 10 2016 05:49 pr1de wrote: I dont know the context. Did he say that random or was there a whole backstory behind it? Not that i allow it to be correct, but i cant say he is wrong if its his opinion, and i think alot of people share that same one. Afaik there wasn't really any context. He said it out of the blue | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
And that was his response after saying Hi. LOL | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
What's wrong with people. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:00 papaz wrote: Why the fuck would he say something like that randomly in a game of SC2?! What's wrong with people. Probably didn't expect it to be streamed. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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Dungeontay
126 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:03 207aicila wrote: Probably didn't expect it to be streamed. Even then it's a pretty stupid thing to say. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:10 Elentos wrote: Even then it's a pretty stupid thing to say. Yeah, if you ever plan to achieven anything in sc2 or plan to play WCS, you should be smart about what you say in public. I mean his opinion is stupid anyway, but making it public is extra stupid. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:09 Dungeontay wrote: i think he also said this on demuslims stream one time. what a guy Honest question, is demuslims Muslim? And if not why did he pick this name? | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:10 Elentos wrote: Even then it's a pretty stupid thing to say. Never claimed otherwise. People do and say stupid things all the time under the assumption there will be no consequences, doesn't change that they're stupid but it's a key reason why it happens.  | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:14 Nakajin wrote: Honest question, is demuslims Muslim? And if not why did he pick this name? Chosed the name "DeMusliM" because he is a fan of Muhammad Ali | ||
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Zidaneix142
29 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:14 Nakajin wrote: Honest question, is demuslims Muslim? And if not why did he pick this name? Demuslim is not a muslim, but he is a big fan of Muhammad Ali who was muslim. I think that is how he choose his nickname if I remember correctly. | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
On November 10 2016 05:49 pr1de wrote: I dont know the context. Did he say that random or was there a whole backstory behind it? Not that i allow it to be correct, but i cant say he is wrong if its his opinion, and i think alot of people share that same one. Hating a group of people is not an opinion. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:03 207aicila wrote: Probably didn't expect it to be streamed. It's been too long since Stephano mentioned he abused a 14yo. | ||
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Talaris
Switzerland753 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:22 HsDLTitich wrote: Hating a group of people is not an opinion. The president of the USA disagrees :-] | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It's been too long since Stephano mentioned he abused a 14yo. Yeah, that one was an obvious joke and people still took it the wrong way, but this seems much more damnable. | ||
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:03 207aicila wrote: Probably didn't expect it to be streamed. Guru is a type of guy that would say the same even if he knew it was streamed. He just doesn't give a fuck | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Where are they in the European SC2 scene? A clan? A team with some small sponsorship? Or are they a proper team with salaries? I assume Guru is a GM level EU player that doesn't think things through before saying them. | ||
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lastride
2390 Posts
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:31 CruiseR wrote: Guru is a type of guy that would say the same even if he knew it was streamed. He just doesn't give a fuck Well there you have it. On November 10 2016 06:33 Probe1 wrote: I've never heard of TeS gaming or Guru. Where are they in the European SC2 scene? A clan? A team with some small sponsorship? Or are they a proper team with salaries? I assume Guru is a GM level EU player that doesn't think things through before saying them. Guru's been an up-and-coming middle tier (as far as pro players are concerned) EU Zerg for over a year now., significant presence in Go4SC2 cups and whatnot. (Aligulac) | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:33 Probe1 wrote: I've never heard of TeS gaming or Guru. Where are they in the European SC2 scene? A clan? A team with some small sponsorship? Or are they a proper team with salaries? I assume Guru is a GM level EU player that doesn't think things through before saying them. I'm pretty sure they have some sort of sponsorship or salary. It's the team Elazer is on and I imagine he would have left by now if they didn't provide some sort of support | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:33 Probe1 wrote: I've never heard of TeS gaming or Guru. Where are they in the European SC2 scene? A clan? A team with some small sponsorship? Or are they a proper team with salaries? I assume Guru is a GM level EU player that doesn't think things through before saying them. True eSport (fka Team Extreme Supremacy) is a decently big team. They are one of the main sponsors of the SC2Improve/WardiTV Team League. Their most famous is player is Blizzcon semifinalist Elazer. Ryung was on TeS for a couple of months too. Guru is mostly an online hero, but he made top 16 at WCS Spring (beat Snute). | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5490 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:27 207aicila wrote: Yeah, that one was an obvious joke and people still took it the wrong way, but this seems much more damnable. Pretty sure that stephano thing was real though, not a joke. This on the other hand is rediculous, I can't believe he got kicked from his team for this. | ||
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:36 Shellshock wrote: I'm pretty sure they have some sort of sponsorship or salary. It's the team Elazer is on and I imagine he would have left by now if they didn't provide some sort of support Oh okay thank you. That's telling about their level of seriousness and commitment if they have Elazer. On November 10 2016 06:36 Clonester wrote: They are sponsored by Samsung. I saw advertisements on their twitter page but I wasn't sure about the level of support those sponsors provided. If they have Elazer on their team I feel I can assume they're serious. That really makes Gurus decision doubly dumb. As a member of the team he represents them in exchange for assistance. This is not how any serious team would want to be represented. On November 10 2016 06:38 Elentos wrote: True eSport (fka Team Extreme Supremacy) is a decently big team. They are one of the main sponsors of the SC2Improve/WardiTV Team League. Their most famous is player is Blizzcon semifinalist Elazer. Ryung was on TeS for a couple of months too. Guru is mostly an online hero, but he made top 16 at WCS Spring (beat Snute). Thank you too Elentos | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:39 jimminy_kriket wrote: Pretty sure that stephano thing was real though, not a joke. This on the other hand is rediculous, I can't believe he got kicked from his team for this. I'm gonna trust the people involved over random people on the internet choosing not to believe them for arbitrary reasons. I'm also gonna trust that there may have been significant negative consequences, if not necessarily legal ones, if it was in fact true. The fact that people still bring it up with any degree of seriousness is baffling. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:39 jimminy_kriket wrote: Pretty sure that stephano thing was real though, not a joke. This on the other hand is rediculous, I can't believe he got kicked from his team for this. Players get paid to represent their teams and most teams wouldn't want to be represented like this. | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
Sc2 has been home for political correctness since the beginning. Personally I've seen players do far worse things in public without consequence. I see why the team wants to kick him and I would have done the same, but the whole situation with Starcraft community feels a lot like kindergarten. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:41 aTnClouD wrote: If he said I hate christians, or I hate men, or I hate white people many would have just thought "well said" instead, and he would have never been kicked from his team. That's stupid. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
I agree with him that there is a double standard of conduct but in this case it's pretty clear cut. He represented his team poorly and his team chose to remove their association with him. It's not a win for anyone and disappointing for everyone. | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
Yeah it is This is the world we live in. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:39 Probe1 wrote: I saw advertisements on their twitter page but I wasn't sure about the level of support those sponsors provided. If they have Elazer on their team I feel I can assume they're serious. That really makes Gurus decision doubly dumb. As a member of the team he represents them in exchange for assistance. This is not how any serious team would want to be represented. Well, Samsung was big and fat on the front Elazer's Jersey at WCS Global Finals. Looks like quite a decent sponsorship. Well, Guro is very close in making it to the HSC, so you can ask himself. And when he comes there, he will meet his first muslim in person. | ||
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beentheredonethat
2934 Posts
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:45 Clonester wrote: Well, Guro is very close in making it to the HSC, so you can ask himself. And when he comes there, he will meet his first muslim in person. who? | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
Just by being in Krefeld. Germany is not Poland. | ||
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:49 Clonester wrote: Just by being in Krefeld. Germany is not Poland. ah, fine, I thought you meant a specific player out of those already qualified and was curious  | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:49 Clonester wrote: Just by being in Krefeld. Germany is not Poland. Aren't a lot of Germans sensitive about this issue or is it mostly just online? | ||
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-IAEVAI-KolosS
Canada60 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:52 207aicila wrote: Aren't a lot of Germans sensitive about this issue or is it mostly just online? A lot of people are, a lot of people aren't. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:52 207aicila wrote: Aren't a lot of Germans sensitive about this issue or is it mostly just online? Part Part. Often times they are facebook/online heroes. And on the ones who are not often times dont live in cities like Krefeld, but in more rural areas where muslims yet to have been witnessed. People now try to give Naruto a hint about Guru, but at the moment looks good for Guru. | ||
Jer99
Canada8157 Posts
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JackONeill
861 Posts
That seems like a bit of an overreaction. Idra said five thousand times worse and it took him years to finally be fired. Maybe if he just wished someone got cancer nothing would have happened, like good old times. Where's PCprincipal when we need him? | ||
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adMachine
Australia54 Posts
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stilt
France2746 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:45 Clonester wrote: Well, Samsung was big and fat on the front Elazer's Jersey at WCS Global Finals. Looks like quite a decent sponsorship. Well, Guro is very close in making it to the HSC, so you can ask himself. And when he comes there, he will meet his first muslim in person. You are right. Had I paid attention to Elazers team I would have made the connection. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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saltis
159 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 10 2016 07:05 saltis wrote: That's his opinion said privately to Dario. There are people I don't appreciate too. Is that terribly bad ? Privately to Dario and a couple hundred more people on stream who publish it on reddit for thousands to see. At which point, yeah, it's bad for the team. | ||
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WhosQuany
Germany257 Posts
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NutriaKaiN
88 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:57 JackONeill wrote: So true esports removed guru from their team just for randomly saying that? That seems like a bit of an overreaction. Idra said five thousand times worse and it took him years to finally be fired. Maybe if he just wished someone got cancer nothing would have happened, like good old times. Where's PCprincipal when we need him? What reputation did IdrA have at the time? How much money did IdrA make for EG? What reputation does Guru have? How much money did Guru make for these guys? The answers are in this very thread. | ||
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WhosQuany
Germany257 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:52 207aicila wrote: Aren't a lot of Germans sensitive about this issue or is it mostly just online? well it is a well discussed topic in Germany but around 5% of Germany (4 million) are Muslims | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On November 10 2016 07:12 207aicila wrote: What reputation did IdrA have at the time? How much money did IdrA make for EG? What reputation does Guru have? How much money did Guru make for these guys? The answers are in this very thread. Yeah of course. But being a dick on the internet didn't use to be a big deal though | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On November 10 2016 07:20 JackONeill wrote: Yeah of course. But being a dick on the internet didn't use to be a big deal though Yeah, even Internet wasnt a big deal though... Things have changed, what you say now on the net is not some nerdmuscleflexing, its just hurting reputations. In best case only yours, in the worst case of people/brands related to you. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 10 2016 07:20 JackONeill wrote: Yeah of course. But being a dick on the internet didn't use to be a big deal though Guru is known for being shitty on ladder, for stream sniping and whatnot. I wouldn't be surprised if his team told him to shape up, and this happened to be the last straw. | ||
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lastride
2390 Posts
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Lightrush
Bulgaria164 Posts
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Apokino
Italy2 Posts
On November 10 2016 07:41 lastride wrote: The funny thing is that they didnt even wait for an ''apology''? They KO'd him just like that It was not the first thing that Guru did. When you receive warnings and you keep behave in the same way there is no point to wait for an apology. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
DNS took the reverse sweep and qualified 3-2 over Guru :D | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On November 10 2016 07:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Guru is known for being shitty on ladder, for stream sniping and whatnot. I wouldn't be surprised if his team told him to shape up, and this happened to be the last straw. Yeah that makes much more sense. Even though it's true that nowadays compagnies/teams/people are so insanely terrified of offending anyone doing this kind of childish stuff isn't possible, there must be some build up for him to be removed straight away Anyway, he's not a bad player i suppose he'll find another team | ||
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Cinek357
Poland119 Posts
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WhosQuany
Germany257 Posts
On November 10 2016 07:45 Apokino wrote: It was not the first thing that Guru did. When you receive warnings and you keep behave in the same way there is no point to wait for an apology. I dont know if this is the 'apology'' cause of date issues twitter.com On November 10 2016 08:09 Cinek357 wrote: On the other hand TLO reported him for saying this which is an exaggeration too. I know Blizzard probably doesn't care about these reports anyway, but what is the point of reporting anyone? Getting him banned? Does TLO really think Guru should have his account banned for saying this? I have no reason to dislike TLO but it was quite a dick move by him. Proof of TLO reporting him? I think the thousands of viewers made it Public tbh | ||
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WhosQuany
Germany257 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:34 207aicila wrote: Well there you have it. Guru's been an up-and-coming middle tier (as far as pro players are concerned) EU Zerg for over a year now., significant presence in Go4SC2 cups and whatnot. (Aligulac) I'm sorry I missed your post and didn't thank you. This answered my question perfectly.. thank you! | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 10 2016 08:09 Cinek357 wrote: On the other hand TLO reported him for saying this which is an exaggeration too. I know Blizzard probably doesn't care about these reports anyway, but what is the point of reporting anyone? Getting him banned? Does TLO really think Guru should have his account banned for saying this? I have no reason to dislike TLO but it was quite a dick move by him. Communication When participating in communication of any kind (chat, voice communication, group finder), you are responsible for how you express yourself. You may not use language that could be offensive or vulgar to others. Hate speech and discriminatory language is inappropriate, as is any obscene or disruptive language. Threatening or harassing another player is always unacceptable, regardless of language used. Violating any of these expectations will result in account restrictions. More serious and repeated violations will result in greater restrictions. It's within TLO's rights to report something that violates the code of conduct. Although most of the time reporting someone does nothing anyway and the feature is mostly cosmetic, if Guru actually got punished by Blizzard, it would still be his own fault and reporting him was within reason. Given what else was posted in this thread, I also doubt it was the first time. | ||
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On November 10 2016 08:44 Probe1 wrote: I'm sorry I missed your post and didn't thank you. This answered my question perfectly.. thank you! You might have heard of TeS at blizzcon considering that's Elazer's team | ||
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hunterzubrus
United States20 Posts
On November 10 2016 08:09 Cinek357 wrote: On the other hand TLO reported him for saying this which is an exaggeration too. I know Blizzard probably doesn't care about these reports anyway, but what is the point of reporting anyone? Getting him banned? Does TLO really think Guru should have his account banned for saying this? I have no reason to dislike TLO but it was quite a dick move by him. So let me get this straight.... blame the person that reported a xenophobe for his actions?? It's rationalizations like yours that has filled the world with so much hate and anger. Get a grip and come back to reality and have the common decency to see that this was wrong. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 10 2016 09:19 ArtyK wrote: You might have heard of TeS at blizzcon considering that's Elazer's team Yes it was discussed earlier in the thread. A more in depth response - Blizzcons delays were big (to the point that I had friends over lose interest in watching Blizzcon after I convinced them to give it a go). I wasn't particularly listening to the table talk and interviews between matches while trying to keep my bored guests entertained. I appreciate all the responses and explanations. | ||
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IArako
Germany195 Posts
Well the president of the USA is wrong | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
If he said: "I hate people", "guys suck", "fucking white people"... Or really one of many other categorizations for people, nothing would have happened. Just because he said Muslim, people get worked up. Not like I ever supported TeS, but now I'll go out of my way to not support them if I have to. Starcraft scene at this point is like a bunch of friends playing games together... And we're going to start lynching people like we're some super important organization just because of a statement in poor taste? | ||
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xJustxJordanx
39 Posts
On November 10 2016 05:47 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I stole it from Reddit. Credits to xJustxJordanx for it I DON'T WANT CREDIT FOR THIS SCREENSHOT! | ||
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Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Everything else is just noise. | ||
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nurle
Norway308 Posts
On November 10 2016 11:07 FiWiFaKi wrote: Yeah, this is super dumb. If he said: "I hate people", "guys suck", "fucking white people"... Or really one of many other categorizations for people, nothing would have happened. Just because he said Muslim, people get worked up. Not like I ever supported TeS, but now I'll go out of my way to not support them if I have to. Starcraft scene at this point is like a bunch of friends playing games together... And we're going to start lynching people like we're some super important organization just because of a statement in poor taste? Could not agree more with you. Luckily political correctness took a huge blow yesterday. (won't go further into detail :pp) | ||
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hunterzubrus
United States20 Posts
On November 10 2016 11:07 FiWiFaKi wrote: Yeah, this is super dumb. If he said: "I hate people", "guys suck", "fucking white people"... Or really one of many other categorizations for people, nothing would have happened. Just because he said Muslim, people get worked up. Not like I ever supported TeS, but now I'll go out of my way to not support them if I have to. Starcraft scene at this point is like a bunch of friends playing games together... And we're going to start lynching people like we're some super important organization just because of a statement in poor taste? So, you're going to out of your way to support a bigot? I guess kudos to you my friend. Google the term "Islamaphobia" and maybe you'll get a perspective to why this is wrong. If this was antisemitism would your sentiments be the same? | ||
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
Stream Cheat for money - Okay Controversial Opinion - Not Okay Match Fixing for money - Your name gets stricken from the history books. Idk, it's a real head scratcher to me. | ||
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baiesradu
Romania150 Posts
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FataLe
New Zealand4492 Posts
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Denjor1elf
5 Posts
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Yiome
China1687 Posts
World sure changed after yesterday | ||
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
I can understand a random 15 year old kid from poland hating muslims because of all the immigration talks lately but writing it in chat is simpy funny(maybe even intentionally since he stream cheats a lot, i doubt he didn't know tlo was streaming) | ||
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SeriousLus
169 Posts
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SlyZBuckler
6 Posts
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Harstem
Netherlands262 Posts
On November 10 2016 11:07 FiWiFaKi wrote: Yeah, this is super dumb. If he said: "I hate people", "guys suck", "fucking white people"... Or really one of many other categorizations for people, nothing would have happened. Just because he said Muslim, people get worked up. Not like I ever supported TeS, but now I'll go out of my way to not support them if I have to. Starcraft scene at this point is like a bunch of friends playing games together... And we're going to start lynching people like we're some super important organization just because of a statement in poor taste? I believe that guru had been warned many times before by TeS and a month back they gave him some kind of final warning. He has been behaving like a 12 year old on lsd for the better part of a year now, glad to see he finally faces consequences. | ||
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Legobiten
71 Posts
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Cinek357
Poland119 Posts
On November 10 2016 08:15 WhosQuany wrote: Proof of TLO reporting him? I think the thousands of viewers made it Public tbh It starts at 1:44:00 https://www.twitch.tv/liquidtlo/v/100007756 On November 10 2016 09:31 hunterzubrus wrote: So let me get this straight.... blame the person that reported a xenophobe for his actions?? It's rationalizations like yours that has filled the world with so much hate and anger. Get a grip and come back to reality and have the common decency to see that this was wrong. I just don't see the point in reporting people for every small thing they say/do wrong. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18338 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On November 10 2016 16:22 sharkie wrote: I don't tolerate this stupid action at all but seriously would we have the same thread and discussion if he said "I hate white guys"? But Guru is a white guy. If he said that nobody would ever even consider taking it seriously. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
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Isualin
Germany1903 Posts
On November 10 2016 16:22 sharkie wrote: I don't tolerate this stupid action at all but seriously would we have the same thread and discussion if he said "I hate white guys"? I think where you are from affects what you can say a lot. If i was a pro starcraft player in a similar position with guru and i wrote something negative about kurdish or armenian people, i would absolutely be fired.(iirc this happened to someone in a turkish lol team before) | ||
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sharkie
Austria18338 Posts
On November 10 2016 16:59 Isualin wrote: I think where you are from affects what you can say a lot. If i was a pro starcraft player in a similar position with guru and i wrote something negative about kurdish or armenian people, i would absolutely be fired.(iirc this happened to someone in a turkish lol team before) Obviously. But would you be fired if you wrote something negative about white people? I really doubt it... | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On November 10 2016 11:07 FiWiFaKi wrote: Yeah, this is super dumb. If he said: "I hate people", "guys suck", "fucking white people"... Or really one of many other categorizations for people, nothing would have happened. Just because he said Muslim, people get worked up. Not like I ever supported TeS, but now I'll go out of my way to not support them if I have to. Starcraft scene at this point is like a bunch of friends playing games together... And we're going to start lynching people like we're some super important organization just because of a statement in poor taste? people can dissociate from other people without getting worked up and certainly without lynching (wtf?) and if the scene is so laid back now, why are you randomly inserting yourself in someone else's relationship and taking some ideological stand? it's just a group of people that no longer wanna be associated with a person. they can do that for whatever reason they want, especially if the scene is as you say it is. your reaction to them just being themselves is what's weird here. you're the one making more of it than what's actually there. what is the message you're putting out here? we've all got to tolerate people we don't like because if we don't, people like you are gonna give us trouble? we ARE actually supposed to tolerate people we dont like when we're doing something important together, but you're the one arguing we're just friends playing games together, not doing anything important. in that case, there's no greater good we should sacrifice our own preferences for. guru was representing TeS when he said some things that aren't representative of TeS, so TeS had to clarify that. super simple, nothing more to it. you accuse TeS of making it a big deal when you're the one doing so, not them. not only that, but then you think it's reasonable to be intolerant of TeS because TeS was intolerant of an islamophobe. ok, if you are tolerant of islamophobes and don't like it when other people aren't as tolerant of islamophobes as you, why do you respond with intolerance? why don't you tolerate TeS just like you can tolerate islamophobes? TeS has to come out with a statement because they were misrepresented. you don't have the same problem of someone else misrepresenting you. you don't need to say anything at all. you can keep to yourself but imagine someone was representing you and started saying opinions that are opposite of yours. or weird shit like you think the earth is flat. and they were saying this stuff in front of people you wanted to hang around and also work with. wouldnt you like to be able to clarify what your actual opinions are to the people you have to interact with? or would you just let your friends, coworkers, possible future employers, etc, think you're some crazy tumblr SJW flat earther? obviously you'd want to clarify your identity. and what would you think if some random stranger who doesnt know you or the people you're talking to comes in and says "hey that's not cool you're taking that guy's misrepresentations of you so seriously, why dont you just keep quiet and live with it and let him speak for you however he wants. if you dont, im gonna go out of my way to not ever support you." that's obviously ridiculous but it's exactly what you're doing | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On November 10 2016 06:33 Probe1 wrote: I've never heard of TeS gaming or Guru. Where are they in the European SC2 scene? A clan? A team with some small sponsorship? Or are they a proper team with salaries? I assume Guru is a GM level EU player that doesn't think things through before saying them. how have you not heard about guruor TeS before? | ||
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Sharkken
Jordan141 Posts
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derpistole
Germany33 Posts
On November 10 2016 19:01 Sharkken wrote: Racism has a leader now? and being racist became legal? Is Islam a race ? Why it is racism, can you explain to me ? | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On November 10 2016 19:40 fishjie wrote: This is the kind of liberal witch hunt policing that has gone on so long that resulted in a trump victory. people are tired of this politically correct crap. that was the comment? seriously who cares. i mean at this point, sc2 has such little viewership that "calling the sponsors" isn't really even a viable threat anymore. what do you expect to happen if you insult your boss? (Disclaimer: I am not 100% sure he is muslim but even if he isn't, as Egyptian you probably are a bit more sensitive to such statements and rightfully so) | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
On November 10 2016 19:03 derpistole wrote: Is Islam a race ? Why it is racism, can you explain to me ? Oh stop the disingenuous semantics crap. Call it xenophobia, islamophobia, racism, whatever. It's all a different shade of the same small minded shit. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
Back in the day when I was starting to play online, people had to accept that everyone can have an opinion, even if it was a very bad one. Some people had respect for others, others were assholes. Slowly the nice people would make groups and since assholes dont like other assholes, those would not find groups themselves. But back then we didn't have sponsors or tournaments, its was just the players. Seems like every time that everything goes mainstream it changes what it used to be and people slowly leave it (Radio, TV, lately twitter...). I dont know the exact details of the incident itself so i wont comment on it specifically. I also think that people are getting tired of Political correctness. We dont have to go from one extreme to another (but it seems some believe that is what is going to happen if we dial down political correctness), but can we at least understand that humans can make mistakes? Making one comment on an online game is enough to loose your sponsor? That's something quite scary if you ask me. Today it's Guru, tomorrow? Maybe you get banned from twitch for saying fat women are not sexy? There is no law or basis for this, it's all subjective to the person judging the event. | ||
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Legobiten
71 Posts
On November 10 2016 19:40 fishjie wrote: This is the kind of liberal witch hunt policing that has gone on so long that resulted in a trump victory. people are tired of this politically correct crap. that was the comment? seriously who cares. i mean at this point, sc2 has such little viewership that "calling the sponsors" isn't really even a viable threat anymore. So just because Trump won means he's right and hate is the way to go? I really do hope the rest of us continues to fight racism and all it's faces. "Who cares?" The ones that are the target of the hate and everyone else who is fed up with it. | ||
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munch
Mute City2363 Posts
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:05 Legobiten wrote: So just because Trump won means he's right and hate is the way to go? I really do hope the rest of us continues to fight racism and all it's faces. "Who cares?" The ones that are the target of the hate and everyone else who is fed up with it. let's be clear. i hate trump and did not vote for him. point still stands. this politically correct crap is suffocating and actually making the situation worse. forget safe places. let people say what's on their mind. nazi authoritarianism where people lose their jobs over stuff they post online is going to result in a strong reaction in the opposite direction to restore the balance. that's one of the reasons trump won. he could say whatever he wanted and get away with it. people are tired of having to walk on eggshells. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
On November 10 2016 09:31 hunterzubrus wrote: So let me get this straight.... blame the person that reported a xenophobe for his actions?? It's rationalizations like yours that has filled the world with so much hate and anger. Get a grip and come back to reality and have the common decency to see that this was wrong. Chill, american. People from your county always overreact to these kind of issues. Being super strict will just cause more problems. Some people voted Trump exactly because of this. Anyways, if he's a repeat offender, then he's just an immature kid that cant focus on the important things. Good riddance. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
On November 10 2016 19:03 derpistole wrote: Is Islam a race ? Why it is racism, can you explain to me ? Because when you speak about Islam. You do not speak about it as a religion but about people who's origin from middle east or Arabs in general. | ||
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Darkencik
Slovakia74 Posts
Anyway as people already said guru the employee said something in public that TeS the employer didn't like so they fired him. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
Now he can finally be freely able to continue being an asshole without making others look bad | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:09 fishjie wrote: let's be clear. i hate trump and did not vote for him. point still stands. this politically correct crap is suffocating and actually making the situation worse. forget safe places. let people say what's on their mind. nazi authoritarianism where people lose their jobs over stuff they post online is going to result in a strong reaction in the opposite direction to restore the balance. that's one of the reasons trump won. he could say whatever he wanted and get away with it. people are tired of having to walk on eggshells. Why do you hate Trump? You seem to have a lot in common. Actions, such as speech, have consequences. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. If you're going to be a racist/sexist/homophobic/nazi dilhole in public, the consequence is that people will take offense. And yes they might invoke *their* freedom of speech and call you out on it, or even fire you over it. Deal with it, you crybaby. | ||
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1conoclast
Poland4 Posts
Muslims are people who follow the religion of Islam. Islamists are people who want to impose some version of Islam over society. Jihadists are people who use force to do so. There is a lot of insanity surrounding the problem of Islam. One extreme is the xenophobia that demonizes all Muslims and the other is the moral relativism that says that Sharia law is just as good at producing healthy and happy societies as western values. If we are to make progress we need to learn to communicate properly. Saying "I hate Islamists and Jihadists" should not only be acceptable but something that Muslims agree with given that it's mostly Muslims that suffer because of them. | ||
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PengWin_SC
Switzerland433 Posts
Guru is not being kicked solely for this comment. Guru has been repeatedly representing his team in a bad way by stream cheating, BM'ing, etc. Just 10 days ago he tweeted this: "I apologize for my stupid behavior recently, it won't happen again. I'm also sorry to @TeS_eSport and to all the community. Sorry guys" Clearly this was the final straw. TeS gave him a final warning, and he did not adhere to it. Whether or not it's "fine" to say "I hate muslims" is neither here nor there. Guru represents TeS and TeS does not want to be represented in this fashion. As such, it is their perogative to remove him from their roster. This isn't about muslims, this isn't about the specifics of this comment, this is about Guru repeatedly saying things out of line with the behaviour the team wants to associate with. | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:18 aQuaSC wrote: So... would one get banned from community if he said that he hates islam because of how it lets women become slaves and promotes outrageous gender inequality for instance? If you don't know any muslims and say that you hate them you just hate what makes them a muslim, and there is nothing racist in despising something like this no matter how much you twist it. There is nothing bad in hating something that denies human rights. But back to the topic: it's hard to believe that it's Guru first stupid bait stunt like that. He knows what world he lives in and TeS had every right to throw him out. They paid him for playing not for stirring shit The Catholic Church, which Guru as a Pole should be intimately familiar with, promotes gender inequality and denies human rights. And they're one of the tamer big Christian denominations. But for some reason edgy internet racists never say "I hate Christians" when pulling dumb stunts like this. The reason is simple: most Christians, or at least the Western image of most Christians, are not brown people. | ||
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Legobiten
71 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:09 fishjie wrote: let's be clear. i hate trump and did not vote for him. point still stands. this politically correct crap is suffocating and actually making the situation worse. forget safe places. let people say what's on their mind. nazi authoritarianism where people lose their jobs over stuff they post online is going to result in a strong reaction in the opposite direction to restore the balance. that's one of the reasons trump won. he could say whatever he wanted and get away with it. people are tired of having to walk on eggshells. But is it a bigger problem that people are tired of not being able to be hateful without consequences than the problem that people are victims of hate?? It's not like walking on eggshells. Saying "I hate muslims" is like beating the hen. It's not hard to be nice. Be nice. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:27 Thax wrote: The Catholic Church, which Guru as a Pole should be intimately familiar with, promotes gender inequality and denies human rights. And they're one of the tamer big Christian denominations. But for some reason edgy internet racists never say "I hate Christians" when pulling dumb stunts like this. The reason is simple: most Christians, or at least the Western image of most Christians, are not brown people. Well to be honest I've never heard about instances where Catholic church being oppressive to women in my vicinity. Maybe I was raised in some weird liberal branch of it. Most islamic countries are very close to the teachings that oppress women and people overall. And I still have no idea why you can be racist if you call out on a religion. I'm seeing white hijab-wearing women on the streets myself once in a while. I don't like any religion, saying it just to not become a "racist" when I'm not aware of it. I don't want to discuss any of it anymore, sad that you caught me when I ended up editing out my post, it was pretty stupid of me to write anything about it at all | ||
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:21 PengWin_SC wrote: Holy christ this thread. Guru is not being kicked solely for this comment. Guru has been repeatedly representing his team in a bad way by stream cheating, BM'ing, etc. Just 10 days ago he tweeted this: "I apologize for my stupid behavior recently, it won't happen again. I'm also sorry to @TeS_eSport and to all the community. Sorry guys" Clearly this was the final straw. TeS gave him a final warning, and he did not adhere to it. Whether or not it's "fine" to say "I hate muslims" is neither here nor there. Guru represents TeS and TeS does not want to be represented in this fashion. As such, it is their perogative to remove him from their roster. This isn't about muslims, this isn't about the specifics of this comment, this is about Guru repeatedly saying things out of line with the behaviour the team wants to associate with. I see. Well, that makes more sense. | ||
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PtitDrogo
France163 Posts
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Mier19891
United States75 Posts
Savage. He's the president elect alright??... Way too goddamn soon... | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On November 10 2016 05:49 pr1de wrote: i cant say he is wrong if its his opinion, and i think alot of people share that same one. So people can openly agree with "i hate muslims" on TL now and not get banned or even warned?  | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
On November 10 2016 16:21 Cinek357 wrote: I just don't see the point in reporting people for every small thing they say/do wrong. And that's how you end up with a president that brag about his sexual assaults. People missing the point here, I'll repeat: hating a group of people is not an opinion and should not be tolerated. | ||
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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
After reading what @PengWin_SC wrote, I understand why he was kicked from the team. However, I wish him all the best, and hopefully he will change his behavior and find a new team. | ||
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GreenMash
Norway1746 Posts
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CognacLover
Poland66 Posts
Keep calm and continue doing what you do Guru! Maybe you lost your team but we're right behind you! | ||
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PengWin_SC
Switzerland433 Posts
On November 10 2016 22:35 CognacLover wrote: It's obvious they wanted to get rid from that guy long ago and that was like the last straw. Guru should ask them: "Did I agree to not say smth like "I hate muslims" when I signed contract with you?". That's really "kurwa" thing they did to him. Keep calm and continue doing what you do Guru! Maybe you lost your team but we're right behind you! That's a weird thing to say. I think TeS stuck with him through WAY more bullshit than almost any other team would have. They gave him so many chances. I would have kicked him off my team long ago. As for the contract, it is perfectly standard to have a clause where the contract can be annulled if the player behaves in a way that reflects poorly on the organization and its sponsors. | ||
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Cinek357
Poland119 Posts
On November 10 2016 22:10 HsDLTitich wrote: And that's how you end up with a president that brag about his sexual assaults. People missing the point here, I'll repeat: hating a group of people is not an opinion and should not be tolerated. Following this logic we can't really use any harsh words about anyone because it's intolerable. | ||
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Jae Zedong
407 Posts
On November 10 2016 23:04 Cinek357 wrote: Following this logic we can't really use any harsh words about anyone because it's intolerable. Sweeping hateful statements about millions of people should be intolerable. I see you're from Poland, how would you like it if a bunch of neonazis came and said all poles are subhuman and they should rebuild Auschwitz and put all poles in it? You can't have that kind of instigation. | ||
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hunterzubrus
United States20 Posts
End rant: My last post on this topic. Hope all you have a fantastic day. | ||
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Cinek357
Poland119 Posts
On November 10 2016 23:12 Jae Zedong wrote: Sweeping hateful statements about millions of people should be intolerable. I see you're from Poland, how would you like it if a bunch of neonazis came and said all poles are subhuman and they should rebuild Auschwitz and put all poles in it? You can't have that kind of instigation. I would be very angry at those neonazis and this kind of language should be not tolerated. You are right. But. In your example you are talking about slaughtering millions of people in internment camps. However, if those neonazis just said that they "hate Poland" I would just say okay, it's your opinion. I would dislike them for sure. I could try to convince them to change their thoughts about Poland but definitately I wouldn't tell them they are not allowed to have such a bad opinion on Poland. Each individual person in the world should have his opinion on different matters and should not be afraid to voice it even if it's negative. As long as they don't speak about hurting or killing people which is against the law. | ||
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Legobiten
71 Posts
On November 10 2016 22:35 CognacLover wrote: Keep calm and continue doing what you do Guru! Maybe you lost your team but we're right behind you! Really?? Continue that horrible behaviour? Don't ever involve more people than yourself when stating such bullshit. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
That said, anyone seriously outraged by this makes me facepalm. These things are said because they know people will get triggered. Don't feed the troll. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
On November 10 2016 21:53 Jae Zedong wrote: So people can openly agree with "i hate muslims" on TL now and not get banned or even warned? Their house their rules. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
Seriously change them ffs. | ||
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Stormhoof
Serbia182 Posts
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
On November 10 2016 21:53 Jae Zedong wrote: So people can openly agree with "i hate muslims" on TL now and not get banned or even warned? He didn't agree, he just said, he has to accept his opinion. I think he's fundamentally wrong but he didn't say "hey, I hate muslims, too". More like: "if that's his opinion... so what". | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2196 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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MushinSSC
31 Posts
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On November 11 2016 00:49 MushinSSC wrote: what did he say about guys ? You mean what did he do? Look at the OP in the thread | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
In my humble opinion that does not know the context, I'd say a firm line in racial issues is a good thing in light Trump and his fellow closet racists. Freedom of opinion was to allow informed discussions without consequences, not just say racist things for fun. | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On November 11 2016 00:09 Yorbon wrote: Perfectly understandable that they would kick him. Misrepresentation of an organisation is a good reason, and whether he meant his statement or not is irrelevant. That said, anyone seriously outraged by this makes me facepalm. These things are said because they know people will get triggered. Don't feed the troll. But when those trolls are taking the white house, we have to reconsider our strategy. Those trolls are no longer just teenagers trying to gain attention. | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:27 Thax wrote: The Catholic Church, which Guru as a Pole should be intimately familiar with, promotes gender inequality and denies human rights. And they're one of the tamer big Christian denominations. But for some reason edgy internet racists never say "I hate Christians" when pulling dumb stunts like this. The reason is simple: most Christians, or at least the Western image of most Christians, are not brown people. However, I might add that looking at the context, Christians were very progressive with what they said about women giving more freedom than before and the core mentality behind is that to God, slave or king, man or woman, he or she is equal to others in God's eyes. I dunno much about the Quaran, but I am sure it is similar in its message too. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:27 Thax wrote: The Catholic Church, which Guru as a Pole should be intimately familiar with, promotes gender inequality and denies human rights. And they're one of the tamer big Christian denominations. But for some reason edgy internet racists never say "I hate Christians" when pulling dumb stunts like this. The reason is simple: most Christians, or at least the Western image of most Christians, are not brown people. Actually the reason edgy internet racists never say "I hate Christians" anymore is because over the last few years any kind of criticism of religion in general (not just Islam) or especially Christianity, even if it is merited, even if it is polite, even if it is on-topic, is dismissed with a quick "tips fedora m'lady" and a link to /r/iamverysmart. And don't ever mention that you're an atheist or you'll be called edgy and get asked how many katanas you own. Lol. Thank Reddit for that, and the awful awful teens that inhabit it. | ||
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hunterzubrus
United States20 Posts
On November 11 2016 00:40 ZeRoX_TV wrote: I cant believe anyone on this planet believes in muslim extremism and actually hates them... They cannot stand firm without shooting themselves in foot and people believe they are capable for terrorism, 9/11, masacres in Europe, etc. But hating anyone is really stupid. Ok, you're from Serbia? A country that massacred 10,000 Muslim Bosniac men/boys less than 50 years for the only fact that they were muslim... And you sir have the audacity to to blame every muslim for the actions of the extremists? So, then by you're logic all serbs committed murders and committed genocide? | ||
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Executer08
Germany163 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:05 munch wrote: this is the worst thread i've seen in a while so true :'( cant believe people are actually defending him or even "attacking" his team and TLO for their actions. this is just very, very sad | ||
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zyce
United States649 Posts
Your sponsor shouldn't have to apologize for you. Pengwin had a good post about Guru's history. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5214 Posts
On November 11 2016 03:48 Executer08 wrote: so true :'( cant believe people are actually defending him or even "attacking" his team and TLO for their actions. this is just very, very sad You do realize we just elected Donald Trump in America right? I'm pretty sure if the TL mods were in charge of what everyone in America said, he would have been perma banned along time ago. Hopefully the rest of society continue to strongly reject stuff like this. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On November 10 2016 20:19 Thax wrote: Why do you hate Trump? You seem to have a lot in common. Actions, such as speech, have consequences. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. If you're going to be a racist/sexist/homophobic/nazi dilhole in public, the consequence is that people will take offense. And yes they might invoke *their* freedom of speech and call you out on it, or even fire you over it. Deal with it, you crybaby. Because Trump is an authoritarian duh. And authoritarians try to limit speech. The problem today is that these kids go on witch hunts, try to get people fired from their jobs because they got offended. It was particularly bad when SC2 was popular, everyone was "CALL THE SPONSORS" when idra said someone should get cancer. Lol, i hate idra, but i thought it was hilarious. People are fed up with this stupidity and it will backfire. Its a mob mentality and people being sick of this swung to Trump. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5214 Posts
On November 11 2016 05:37 fishjie wrote: Because Trump is an authoritarian duh. And authoritarians try to limit speech. The problem today is that these kids go on witch hunts, try to get people fired from their jobs because they got offended. It was particularly bad when SC2 was popular, everyone was "CALL THE SPONSORS" when idra said someone should get cancer. Lol, i hate idra, but i thought it was hilarious. People are fed up with this stupidity and it will backfire. Its a mob mentality and people being sick of this swung to Trump. I'm failing to see the difference... Are you offended that other people got offended and want to limit their rights? Are you on a witch hunt against them? Free speech doesn't just mean speech that doesn't offend you. | ||
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Majick
416 Posts
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On November 11 2016 05:59 BronzeKnee wrote: I'm failing to see the difference... Are you offended that other people got offended and want to limit their rights? Are you on a witch hunt against them? Free speech doesn't just mean speech that doesn't offend you. the difference is that ppl should be able to say what they want, without worry of a liberal witch hunt hysteria. the kids behind it are just a mob mentality. i'm not offended that people get offended. i'm laughing at them. who cares? i love southpark because they make fun of everybody. i get offended by some of their stuff, but i love them for it. and i'm glad there is no liberal witch hunt hysteria to stop south park (mainly cause it'd get shut down, south park is too awesome). this is how it should be. no safe places. no trigger warnings. macro aggressions everywhere. just say whats on your mind and back up your stuff with solid reasoning. | ||
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Snorkels
United States1015 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
do you see the difference here? I hope he will learn from his mistake and that it will make him a better person in the end. | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
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BelgianSC
Belgium19 Posts
Good riddance I guess. | ||
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Stormhoof
Serbia182 Posts
On November 11 2016 03:21 hunterzubrus wrote: Ok, you're from Serbia? A country that massacred 10,000 Muslim Bosniac men/boys less than 50 years for the only fact that they were muslim... And you sir have the audacity to to blame every muslim for the actions of the extremists? So, then by you're logic all serbs committed murders and committed genocide? Where is stated that I blame muslims? Its quite the opposite. I said that I cant believe anyone blame muslims for terrorism, which do exist, but its far from a seriois threat. Secondly, i cannot really talk to brainwashed cnn viewer who never red anything about Balkan history in his life and think that has right to comment. If you want to talk about that subject find out who started the war and how, who curently live in Bosnia and Hercegovina, who actually are Bosniaks, etc. Then we can talk without spamming people who do not want to read it. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 11 2016 07:20 PPN wrote: Am I dreaming or is there in this thread a fairly high numbers of people who actually blame the team for taking the most sensible course of actions and who defend a blatant recidivist in toxic slur, stream sniping and other BMs. What's wrong with you people? I mean Nerchio also used to tell people to get cancer and die and called them retards during broadcast tournament matches and look how many fans he's enjoying now. Oh but if you react to anything he says you got baited. Because that's an argument.  Just saying man. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
/thread | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On November 11 2016 07:54 207aicila wrote: I mean Nerchio also used to tell people to get cancer and die. source please | ||
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Matroid_Prime
Canada59 Posts
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207aicila
1237 Posts
Sure let me just go find random VoDs from online events that happened in 2011 for you. Or you can go tweet GoOdy or something, I'm sure he remembers. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On November 11 2016 09:03 207aicila wrote: Sure let me just go find random VoDs from online events that happened in 2011 for you. Or you can go tweet GoOdy or something, I'm sure he remembers. If you were bad enough to lose to GoOdy you don't deserve to flame. Foreigners stuff. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 11 2016 09:26 Poopi wrote: If you were bad enough to lose to GoOdy you don't deserve to flame. Foreigners stuff. Yeah man a lot of newer people forget or maybe never knew this to begin with but Nerchio used to flame and ragequit like crazy back in the day. And unlike now, he wasn't good enough to warrant that kind of attitude, in the same way that maybe IdrA or later Stephano were. | ||
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Alexcalibur1996
United States39 Posts
Religion is a very different matter. You either believe it or you don't. You never question or criticize it. This is not literature. Although deserving of the consequences, it's sad to see him kicked out from the team house. | ||
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hunterzubrus
United States20 Posts
On November 11 2016 07:43 ZeRoX_TV wrote: Where is stated that I blame muslims? Its quite the opposite. I said that I cant believe anyone blame muslims for terrorism, which do exist, but its far from a seriois threat. Secondly, i cannot really talk to brainwashed cnn viewer who never red anything about Balkan history in his life and think that has right to comment. If you want to talk about that subject find out who started the war and how, who curently live in Bosnia and Hercegovina, who actually are Bosniaks, etc. Then we can talk without spamming people who do not want to read it. My apologies. You're statement seemed like it had a "sarcastic tone"... maybe it was the language barrier, but anyways my apologies for the assumption. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5214 Posts
On November 11 2016 07:20 PPN wrote: Am I dreaming or is there in this thread a fairly high numbers of people who actually blame the team for taking the most sensible course of actions and who defend a blatant recidivist in toxic slur, stream sniping and other BMs. What's wrong with you people? The silent majority supports Guru? | ||
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ETisME
12328 Posts
What if he doesn't mean terrorism sort of racist way and simply dislike Muslims? I don't quite like Mormons and I don't think I would get kicked if I said it on stream (if I were steamer and with a team) | ||
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rotta
5582 Posts
On November 11 2016 15:06 ETisME wrote: While this is a stupid comment to say. What if he doesn't mean terrorism sort of racist way and simply dislike Muslims? I don't quite like Mormons and I don't think I would get kicked if I said it on stream (if I were steamer and with a team) Some religions are more equal than others. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
On November 11 2016 15:06 ETisME wrote: While this is a stupid comment to say. What if he doesn't mean terrorism sort of racist way and simply dislike Muslims? I don't quite like Mormons and I don't think I would get kicked if I said it on stream (if I were steamer and with a team) "I hate xy" "I don't quite like xy" Can you see the difference? | ||
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Aquila Magna
Germany38 Posts
On November 10 2016 09:31 hunterzubrus wrote: So let me get this straight.... blame the person that reported a xenophobe for his actions?? It's rationalizations like yours that has filled the world with so much hate and anger. Get a grip and come back to reality and have the common decency to see that this was wrong. Reading someone from the US advocating common decency feels wierdly counseling since 8th November. I wonder why that is. Srsly. People throwing the term Political Correctness around are nowadays exclusively people who think shittalking humans who have never harmed them in any way should be cheered by their peers. The other ones just like to be generally nice to people instead. And I hope in the end the latter will prevail. | ||
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Kashim
Poland1150 Posts
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Ludwigvan
Germany2371 Posts
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
But I find recent trend of witchhunting people for their opinion concerning. Yes, "hating muslims" is wrong but forbidding people to express their views doesn't help to discourage said views. | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
"I think xyz are stupid because [...]" is an opinion. "I hate xyz" is not. HATE SPEECH IS NOT FREE SPEECH. | ||
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SKN1995
Japan204 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 11 2016 21:44 HsDLTitich wrote: Can we get a disclaimer in this thread? HATING A GROUP OF PEOPLE IS NOT AN OPINION. It's just bigotry. "I think xyz are stupid because [...]" is an opinion. "I hate xyz" is not. HATE SPEECH IS NOT FREE SPEECH. It's a bigoted opinion mate. He was not stating a fact. On November 11 2016 22:12 SKN1995 wrote: You would think people were smart enough to realize Guru wasn't necessarily speaking on behalf of his team when he was expressing his point of view/trying to be funny but people are not very smart so his team took PR precautionary action. We do realize this. I'm sure his team realizes this. I'm sure if his sponsor was aware of what transpired they would realize this. Should they spend A) untold hours correcting people by telling them they're not anti muslim they just pay people who are or B) just cut ties with someone who is and make it clear through action | ||
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Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
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SKN1995
Japan204 Posts
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Supter
France382 Posts
On November 12 2016 00:41 Haukinger wrote: Actually, stating "I hate <xy>" is just stating a fact about the speaker. Whether or not <xy> is worth being hated or not has nothing to do with it. I don't know what business relation Guru has with True Esports, but any labor court would only laugh at an employer who fires someone just for stating facts. He hasn't been "fired for stating facts". As a team member, he's a public figure, and what he said isn't appropriate when you're representing someone else. I have a hard time understanding on what ground you guys are defending him. His comment was uncalled for and blatant bigotry ; the team he was in decided that it was bad press and fired him. A normal day in a normal world. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On November 12 2016 01:31 Supter wrote: He hasn't been "fired for stating facts". As a team member, he's a public figure, and what he said isn't appropriate when you're representing someone else. I have a hard time understanding on what ground you guys are defending him. His comment was uncalled for and blatant bigotry ; the team he was in decided that it was bad press and fired him. A normal day in a normal world. Exactly, he isn't confessing something when pressed, he is actively spreading his hatred. If he hates muslims (because he's into bigotry and a bad person or whatnot), then the sentence "i hate muslims" is a fact, but stating it is racist bigotry, a provocation, since he not only feels that way but obviously also feels the need to spread his hatred. Not saying racists are ok if they keep it to their private life: I actually prefer them to speak out and getting their punishment. | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On November 12 2016 03:09 Kafka777 wrote: Guru is a clown and everyone who listens to what he says knows that, especially polish viewers. It goes without saying that he does not hate anyone. In this case it was most likely a gaming strategy aimed at tilting TLO. So , if you know the context think what you will. It was inappropriate to make this statement in a public game, very silly, but it would be worse if the statement was serious. Of course actions taken by TLO and True Esports are fully justified and understandable. It isn't silly, it is straight out disgusting. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
Also I think it is not forbidden to openly state that you hate muslims, IF you are not representing anything but yourself. Because guru represents a team but not only himself I think it is okay to kick him from the team. Edit: I don't hate muslims and think it is not right to do so, but if you do you should be allowed to express yourself in a reasonable fashion | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On November 12 2016 00:41 Haukinger wrote: Actually, stating "I hate <xy>" is just stating a fact about the speaker. Whether or not <xy> is worth being hated or not has nothing to do with it. I don't know what business relation Guru has with True Esports, but any labor court would only laugh at an employer who fires someone just for stating facts. I'd like too see the employer that doesn't fire someone for stating "I hate muslims" in public. lol. can't believe people here are defending him. I mean obviously he was joking but "he is entitled to his opinion" is bullshit. didn't expect to see such primitive people on TL. | ||
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MindForeverBurning
12 Posts
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rotta
5582 Posts
On November 16 2016 12:33 MindForeverBurning wrote: the ACLU defending the right of neo-Nazis to march through Skokie, IL. I hate Illinois Nazis | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
The delicate point about that in fact is if someone would have been removed from a team if he stated to hate christians or not and if it was even carried to the public by the watchers of a stream or the participating players and believed to be meaningful. Would anyone care if I stated to hate science-tologists? It is a bit naive to believe to report such opinions is in any way helping the whole hate thing instead of empowering it. There is alot of hate out there. From muslims and against muslims. It doesn't belong in esports for sure. And forum population is rightfully divided about that whole issue imo. It isn't at all as clear as some white knights want to put it. Religions have brought alot of harm over the world. Still it is wrong to hate them or their believers? Vegetarians have done nothing similar and I bet no team in the world would care if anyone stated to hate vegetarians. | ||
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HoZBlooddrop
Italy324 Posts
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On November 16 2016 12:33 MindForeverBurning wrote: The debate over hate speech vs. free speech is long standing and there are nuances that have produced surprising results, such as the ACLU defending the right of neo-Nazis to march through Skokie, IL. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech and https://www.aclu.org/other/aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie. that's just silly though. You don't have to (and shouldn't) be tolerant towards intolerance. Additionally hes going to be able to say what he said without anybody imprisoning him, however it will have social consequences (because people realize how stupid you are if you say something like that). it fits within free speech fairly well. (If there's even such a thing as "free speech" people have butchered the original meaning of this quite a lot) | ||
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bypLy
757 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11402 Posts
On November 12 2016 13:18 Charoisaur wrote: I'd like too see the employer that doesn't fire someone for stating "I hate muslims" in public. lol. can't believe people here are defending him. I mean obviously he was joking but "he is entitled to his opinion" is bullshit. didn't expect to see such primitive people on TL. Also, that basic idea that no one can do anything as long as you are stating facts is obviously silly. As long as you truly think that "x" is true, any statement in the form of "I think x" is fine. Try walking up to your boss and telling them "I think you are an asshole, i hate you." and see for how long you keep your job. Or even more fun "I think i could break all of your fingers before help could arrive. Just saying." | ||
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