David "Lilbow" Moschetto, French Protoss of team Millenium, is looking to leave the StarCraft 2 scene, setting his sights on the new Blizzard game Overwatch.
In 2015, Lilbow played himself into the hearts of many fans, reaching the finals of WCS Premier League twice in a row and winning once. He was also one of only two foreigners to ever qualify for the Global Finals under the old WCS system. Lilbow also caused some controversy during the Global Finals. After his 0-3 loss in the first round, he stated that he had barely practiced for his match, instead opting to focus on preparing for the upcoming release of Legacy of the Void.
Less than a year later, on July 1, Lilbow dropped out of BasetradeTV's "Civil War" event due to "no longer playing Starcraft". Today, he posted this on reddit:
i'm indeed trying to switch into overwatch as I have no more passion for starcraft 2 anymore, basically haven't played the game since 4 months except a tiny bit to prepare for dh tours which I lost 3-2 (again....) I don't wanna say too much, just thanks for you support and do not expect a come back for now as my overwatch experience is truely great
On July 03 2016 00:55 Thax wrote: Guess all that extra practice for LotV during Blizzcon didn't pan out.
Also, complaining about losing repeatedly while having just said he didn't practice is a wee bit mystifying.
He didn't get any "extra" practice.... he just practiced the same amount as any other player. He would have practiced less if he was still playing Hots for Blizzcon, that's all.
He has never seemed to enjoy himself much since Lotv came out
Farewell to the guy who, for a couple months, was the best foreigner. His decision making may be special, but his micro is impressive and he sometimes has those genius moments that just make me wow.
On July 03 2016 00:55 DMXD wrote: Can't really blame him. the starcraft community been on his nuts ever since the blizzcon incident. good luck
And for good reason. If you're not even going to try, "bow" out of Blizzcon and let someone else who WANTS to play, play. It's better for you, better for the audience, better for Blizzcon.
On July 03 2016 00:55 DMXD wrote: Can't really blame him. the starcraft community been on his nuts ever since the blizzcon incident. good luck
im 100% sure in any other competitive sports, his thrashing would be 1000% worse. He should be thankful it came down to just only jokes
I'm just imagining the shitstorm that'd go down if a pro athlete got crushed first round of playoffs and then admitted he didn't practice for them. They'd lose sponsors at least and probably their whole career
I think Overwatch needs more players like him. And by him...I mean drama queens. Seriously the OW scene is so stale, I want lilbow to spice things up over there.
On July 03 2016 02:05 Taco87 wrote: Didn't he whine about millennium not sending him to DH tours.. (they eventually did send him) And now we find out he barley practiced...
Wonder why they didn't want to send him... ;-)
It was DH austin, he qualified for DH Tours. And if you paid attention it was obvious he didnt practice those last few months.
On July 03 2016 02:23 MockHamill wrote: I really doubt RTS skills translates to Overwatch at all. It is like comparing Boxing to Golf, excellence at one means nothing for the other.
I've actually met him and someone else (think Marinelord) in an overwatch pub. Wasn't too impressive but guess it's a new game and those who tries to improve will do well.
Just dunno if he's going to do better than all ex TF2 / Quake pros that also switched but have a lot better aim.
can't say I'll miss him...since he sabotaged Blizzcon he lost all credibility in SC2 scene and as was mentioned he.s quite lucky it stayed only at jokes.
I have a feeling that in few months he'll switch to something else again.
PS: dropping out of Blizzcon to practice for a game you leave few months later is quite the achievement. Probably the most stupid thing in a long time in SC2 scene.
On July 03 2016 03:25 killerm12 wrote: can't say I'll miss him...since he sabotaged Blizzcon he lost all credibility in SC2 scene and as was mentioned he.s quite lucky it stayed only at jokes.
I have a feeling that in few months he'll switch to something else again.
PS: dropping out of Blizzcon to practice for a game you leave few months later is quite the achievement. Probably the most stupid thing in a long time in SC2 scene.
Pretty much my stance, though I'm not as harsh considering he earned his place to be there... Still will remember him for that day.
how is this lilbow's mistake that LotV released is at blizzcon? It was obvious that everyone played LotV beta except blizzcon players. So lilbow had hard time to find serious good hots players over 2+ months.
On July 03 2016 03:40 Dingodile wrote: how is this lilbow's mistake that LotV released is at blizzcon? It was obvious that everyone played LotV beta except blizzcon players. So lilbow had hard time to find serious good hots players over 2+ months.
That isn't true, lots of people said they would help him prior to blizzcon and he turned them down. The real shame is he thought LOTV would be a better game and for his playstyle it really sucks :/.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
He definitely made it sound like he was trying to go professional there.
On July 03 2016 03:40 Dingodile wrote: how is this lilbow's mistake that LotV released is at blizzcon? It was obvious that everyone played LotV beta except blizzcon players. So lilbow had hard time to find serious good hots players over 2+ months.
that argument was debunked multiple times already.
several players said they wanted to help him but HE refused.
also, all of BlizzCon atendees had same issues as he did, even if that claim was true. It doesn't excuse him at all.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
Well, if you're not enjoying yourself playing the game and you're not able to be competitive with the best, I understand his decision to try out another game.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
Babyknight switched back to Dota and while he hasn't been exactly successful he seems to be doing ok.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
As far as I know, the only example of a pro from one game going to also a pro level in another one is Lucifron and Vortix from Strcraft to Heroes of the Storm.
Every other example is just going from Pro to Amateur / Enthousiast level.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
On July 03 2016 02:23 MockHamill wrote: I really doubt RTS skills translates to Overwatch at all. It is like comparing Boxing to Golf, excellence at one means nothing for the other.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
Is overwatch big enough competitively already? It's weird how Blizzard tries to push every single game they make into an esport, regardless if it's a natural fit or not.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
This!
Plus we don't even know if Overwatch will have a competitive scene. But I was expecting sth like this, either he would reitire or he would switch games. Both possibilities have the same outcome...
Ps: Still mad at him because of his Blizzcon "performance" and his ridiculous excuses.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
Babyknight switched back to Dota and while he hasn't been exactly successful he seems to be doing ok.
Totally forgot Babyknight existed. That dude was pretty cool.
Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
Because it was Blizzcon - the biggest tournament of the year, and a lot of people anointed him (fairly or unfairly) as the foreign hope. Unfortunately, he was seen as responsible for representing all of the foreign scene, and even though it was an unrealistic expectation, when he revealed that he hadn't been practicing, it was seen as a slap in the face and deepened the stereotype that the foreign scene was lazy and the beneficiaries of "welfare Blizzcon spots".
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
Because it was Blizzcon - the biggest tournament of the year, and a lot of people anointed him (fairly or unfairly) as the foreign hope. Unfortunately, he was seen as responsible for representing all of the foreign scene, and even though it was an unrealistic expectation, when he revealed that he hadn't been practicing, it was seen as a slap in the face and deepened the stereotype that the foreign scene was lazy and the beneficiaries of "welfare Blizzcon spots".
TL;DR: Context matters
Still it was the smart choice from his perspective.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
Babyknight switched back to Dota and while he hasn't been exactly successful he seems to be doing ok.
Totally forgot Babyknight existed. That dude was pretty cool.
BBK had his moment when he beat Rain offline on Cloud Kingdom with nicely executed Blink pressure.
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
Because it was Blizzcon - the biggest tournament of the year, and a lot of people anointed him (fairly or unfairly) as the foreign hope. Unfortunately, he was seen as responsible for representing all of the foreign scene, and even though it was an unrealistic expectation, when he revealed that he hadn't been practicing, it was seen as a slap in the face and deepened the stereotype that the foreign scene was lazy and the beneficiaries of "welfare Blizzcon spots".
TL;DR: Context matters
Still it was the smart choice from his perspective.
At the time. In hindsight it's not like it paid off much. He didn't produce any results he couldn't have gotten without his Blizzcon quasi-forfeit.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
As far as I know, the only example of a pro from one game going to also a pro level in another one is Lucifron and Vortix from Strcraft to Heroes of the Storm.
Every other example is just going from Pro to Amateur / Enthousiast level.
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
You ever read his facebook post?
He says Life didn't play an honorable game and if he had practiced he'd have beat Life.
He didn't do the work, but he still wanted the credit.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
As far as I know, the only example of a pro from one game going to also a pro level in another one is Lucifron and Vortix from Strcraft to Heroes of the Storm.
Every other example is just going from Pro to Amateur / Enthousiast level.
duckdeok just won something in Heroes too I think?
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
As far as I know, the only example of a pro from one game going to also a pro level in another one is Lucifron and Vortix from Strcraft to Heroes of the Storm.
Every other example is just going from Pro to Amateur / Enthousiast level.
duckdeok just won something in Heroes too I think?
elige was a SC2 player on ROOT academy and is now on the best NA CS:GO team.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
As far as I know, the only example of a pro from one game going to also a pro level in another one is Lucifron and Vortix from Strcraft to Heroes of the Storm.
Every other example is just going from Pro to Amateur / Enthousiast level.
duckdeok and Sniper
sC, CrazyMoving, Noblesse, BabyKnight
do we count Hearthstone as esports? because that means a lot more too. And then there's people switching between different MOBAs
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
As far as I know, the only example of a pro from one game going to also a pro level in another one is Lucifron and Vortix from Strcraft to Heroes of the Storm.
Every other example is just going from Pro to Amateur / Enthousiast level.
duckdeok and Sniper
sC, CrazyMoving, Noblesse, BabyKnight
do we count Hearthstone as esports? because that means a lot more too. And then there's people switching between different MOBAs
I mean Forsen was a SC2 player before Hearthstone, and he's pretty successful to say the least lol.
Thats what Lilbows GF told me at HSC. Funny to hear it officialy now.
For all the people who are saying that the switch is stupid amd won't work or even start comparing it to a real sport (lol?)
A ton of LoL, Starcraft and even CSGO pros did not actually play a related genre or something like that before they turned pro. Switching a video game is completly different from switching a real sport where people are training their bodys for many more years.
but overwatch has no competitive future so maybe he'll come back
LOL. And SC2 does?
Overwatch is a top 5 game at this point. In Korea its beating League right now. Doesn't matter if it's entertaining to watch, if people play the game they will watch it.
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
You ever read his facebook post?
He says Life didn't play an honorable game and if he had practiced he'd have beat Life.
He didn't do the work, but he still wanted the credit.
That's not what he said. He said the games looked so bad because life went for cheese strategies (meaning in macro games he would have looked better) and if he practiced really hard he could have maybe beaten life but beating inno afterwards would have been impossible.
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
You ever read his facebook post?
He says Life didn't play an honorable game and if he had practiced he'd have beat Life.
He didn't do the work, but he still wanted the credit.
That's not what he said. He said the games looked so bad because life went for cheese strategies (meaning in macro games he would have looked better) and if he practiced really hard he could have maybe beaten life but beating inno afterwards would have been impossible.
yeah, he can definitely suggest that to blizzard and other map makers. make the map the way that no cheese is possible, and he would be happy. come on, his opening was exactly a lotv build at that time. nothing cheesy from life.
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
You ever read his facebook post?
He says Life didn't play an honorable game and if he had practiced he'd have beat Life.
He didn't do the work, but he still wanted the credit.
That's not what he said. He said the games looked so bad because life went for cheese strategies (meaning in macro games he would have looked better) and if he practiced really hard he could have maybe beaten life but beating inno afterwards would have been impossible.
yea that is way more accurate than what stuchiu thought have read
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
You ever read his facebook post?
He says Life didn't play an honorable game and if he had practiced he'd have beat Life.
He didn't do the work, but he still wanted the credit.
That's not what he said. He said the games looked so bad because life went for cheese strategies (meaning in macro games he would have looked better) and if he practiced really hard he could have maybe beaten life but beating inno afterwards would have been impossible.
yeah, he can definitely suggest that to blizzard and other map makers. make the map the way that no cheese is possible, and he would be happy. come on, his opening was exactly a lotv build at that time. nothing cheesy from life.
He went mass lings, he baneling busted, he 6-pooled. It was cheesy as fuck.
Granted it wouldn't have been hard to find out Life was gonna play like that.
I hope he does well! Always saddens me when pro's switch and then don't make it into the scene. I have no clue about Overwatch whatsoever, is there already tournaments?
Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
On July 03 2016 00:55 Thax wrote: Guess all that extra practice for LotV during Blizzcon didn't pan out.
Also, complaining about losing repeatedly while having just said he didn't practice is a wee bit mystifying.
He didn't get any "extra" practice.... he just practiced the same amount as any other player. He would have practiced less if he was still playing Hots for Blizzcon, that's all.
He has never seemed to enjoy himself much since Lotv came out
Not really surprising. It's a brutal way to learn a life lesson, but yeah if you've got an opportunity like that, you don't waste it, even if it's a long shot.
If I was him, I think I'd be switching games too.
He's a good guy though. Just made a bad mistake which I think took a toll on him thereafter.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
Babyknight switched back to Dota and while he hasn't been exactly successful he seems to be doing ok.
Totally forgot Babyknight existed. That dude was pretty cool.
I think I heard Sjow is doing well in Hearthstone.
Also Elky went from pro Starcraft to one of the best poker players of his time. I think there were some other poker pros who got their start from Starcraft as well.
Hell, almost every Starcraft two player who did well in WoL got their start from SCBW or WC3 (or whatever that game HuK played was).
Admittedly, RTS to RTS is way easier than RTS to FPS
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
On July 03 2016 04:31 Clbull wrote: Can you really blame Lilbow for quitting StarCraft II? The game, the community and even the competitive scene have declined in recent years, and at this point certain aspects of them have become a joke.
Let's go back to the infamous Blizzcon 2015 loss, shall we?
In Lilbow's shoes, you had two options, you could either:
Practice Heart of the Swarm for the final premier tournament of the expansion's life cycle, which you have no chance whatsoever of winning, especially when the entire bracket is stacked with KeSPA Koreans and when you face Life in the very first round. Doing this will not benefit you at all during LotV beta tournaments or even in the game's release.
Practice Legacy of the Void. The game is just coming out of closed beta at that point, and there are a number of beta cups and even upcoming premier tournaments that you can practice in advance for. Doing this would catch you up with the meta, and make you one of the more experienced foreign players coming into the next expansion.
Lilbow made the smart choice by not bothering with Blizzcon and was vilified by the community and even the Korean scene for his choice.
It's just like when the people hated on Naniwa for forfeiting that series against Polt at IEM Katowice. He had nothing to lose and nothing to gain from facing off against Polt at that point, because he had a stacked Ro16 bracket of KeSPA and eSF Koreans to face off against, and the idiots at ESL thought it was a good idea to announce at the very last minute the most top-heavy prize pool in eSports existence by making the $100,000 pot 'winner takes all.'
Then there's the metagame. SC2 has become boring and stale, especially since HotS and LotV. Each game playing out almost identically with the same unit compositions, map design and aggressive drop and harassment play. Back in WoL, you saw loads of new builds for all three races come into existence, even after the dreaded 1.4.3 Balance Update which made the Zerg economic early game overpowered.
HotS had MMMM vs ling bling muta ultra in every single TvZ game, Stalker Colossus High Templar vs MMMM in every single TvP game, and Roach Hydra Viper vs deathball in every ZvP game, with no variation whatsoever, aside from the dreaded 3 hour Swarm Host games that nobody wants to talk about or acknowledge.
And now in LotV, we have Siegeivacs, Adepts, Disruptors and 9 range Lurkers to stagnate the meta into constant drop harass builds.
Because it was Blizzcon - the biggest tournament of the year, and a lot of people anointed him (fairly or unfairly) as the foreign hope. Unfortunately, he was seen as responsible for representing all of the foreign scene, and even though it was an unrealistic expectation, when he revealed that he hadn't been practicing, it was seen as a slap in the face and deepened the stereotype that the foreign scene was lazy and the beneficiaries of "welfare Blizzcon spots".
TL;DR: Context matters
Still it was the smart choice from his perspective.
It was not. Betas have proven before to be false friends. It was predictable that blizzard would make multiple changes the first view months and the meta would shift. We saw many players being good at the start of LotV and then falling off the radar again. It's like TLO said at blizzcon: you have to take the opportunity when it's there or it may be the last one forever. Lilbow proved that to be true. Lilbows choice wasn't smart - it was illusional. To make a good showing at blizzcon and catching up in LotV afterwards would have been possible and much much wiser.
And then there is always that statement he did at his WCS win: "I want to win blizzcon as well"
Nonetheless as stated before: I respect him and wish him all luck he can get in Overwatch.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
Babyknight switched back to Dota and while he hasn't been exactly successful he seems to be doing ok.
Totally forgot Babyknight existed. That dude was pretty cool.
I think I heard Sjow is doing well in Hearthstone.
Also Elky went from pro Starcraft to one of the best poker players of his time. I think there were some other poker pros who got their start from Starcraft as well.
Hell, almost every Starcraft two player who did well in WoL got their start from SCBW or WC3 (or whatever that game HuK played was).
Admittedly, RTS to RTS is way easier than RTS to FPS
Sjow still hasnt won a premier, but his anyfin deck is one of my favorites.
On July 03 2016 03:45 Noocta wrote: I mean, he's not going to do anything serious in Overwatch, would be more fitting to say he's retiring to play games for fun.
There were Sc2 players who switched to Dota and LoL as well. Has anyone been successful at all? We'll see, maybe Overwatch is different. HuK also seems interested in Overwatch? He was streaming it for a little bit.
Babyknight switched back to Dota and while he hasn't been exactly successful he seems to be doing ok.
Totally forgot Babyknight existed. That dude was pretty cool.
I think I heard Sjow is doing well in Hearthstone.
Also Elky went from pro Starcraft to one of the best poker players of his time. I think there were some other poker pros who got their start from Starcraft as well.
Hell, almost every Starcraft two player who did well in WoL got their start from SCBW or WC3 (or whatever that game HuK played was).
Admittedly, RTS to RTS is way easier than RTS to FPS
I think Elige from Team Liquids CS team also played sc2 before (not sure, but i think so).
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
yes, repeating the same mistake every game against one of the most aggressive zerg players who's known for pulling fast ones on his opponents. And the same aggressive Zerg that pulled fast ones against Naniwa in a grand finals and shown that he will do so against foreigners. Definitely Code S level mistakes.
Totally understandable, if I fluked and won something in SC2 I better quickly quit because I know it won't happen again. SC2 hard game man, better leave it to the Koreans, scrubs should take the chance and get out ASAP. Time to practice for the release of Overwatch 2 :D
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
yes, repeating the same mistake every game against one of the most aggressive zerg players who's known for pulling fast ones on his opponents. And the same aggressive Zerg that pulled fast ones against Naniwa in a grand finals and shown that he will do so against foreigners. Definitely Code S level mistakes.
Game 1. Lilbow scouts Life opening gas and does not scout Life's Zerglings destroying rocks. This has happened in Code S games.
Game 2. Lilbow misreads a 13|12 opening as 14|14 and dies. This too has happened in Code S games.
Game 3. Lilbow playing against an unscouted 6 Pool tries to take his Nexus before adding 2nd and 3rd Gateway which turns out to put him slightly behind against Life's continued Zergling production then Lilbow goes for heavy Gateway aggresion which Life - being ahead and being aware of Lilbow's intentions - deflects. Who in their right mind is going to argue poorer decision making has not been shown in Code S games?
All in all, it seems to me that you have no idea about this and you are just talking out of your ass. No offense.
On July 03 2016 11:39 MoosyDoosy wrote: so...Blizzcon time but practice for LotV. LotV time but practice for OW. OW time and practice for OW2 or SC3?
On July 03 2016 09:00 1 2 1 2 wrote:
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
yes, repeating the same mistake every game against one of the most aggressive zerg players who's known for pulling fast ones on his opponents. And the same aggressive Zerg that pulled fast ones against Naniwa in a grand finals and shown that he will do so against foreigners. Definitely Code S level mistakes.
Game 1. Lilbow scouts Life opening gas and does not scout Life's Zerglings destroying rocks. This has happened in Code S games.
Game 2. Lilbow misreads a 13|12 opening as 14|14 and dies. This too has happened in Code S games.
Game 3. Lilbow playing against an unscouted 6 Pool tries to take his Nexus before adding 2nd and 3rd Gateway which turns out to put him slightly behind against Life's continued Zergling production then Lilbow goes for heavy Gateway aggresion which Life - being ahead and being aware of Lilbow's intentions - deflects. Who in their right mind is going to argue poorer decision making has not been shown in Code S games?
All in all, it seems to me that you have no idea about this and is just talking out of your ass. No offense.
There is a complete difference between build order losses/snipes as a one time instance in a box and getting fucked 3 times in a row without even trying. You might be astute and bring up that one code A series between soulkey and (solar?) Where soulkey won 3-0 with early pools, but context is everything.
On July 03 2016 11:39 MoosyDoosy wrote: so...Blizzcon time but practice for LotV. LotV time but practice for OW. OW time and practice for OW2 or SC3?
On July 03 2016 09:00 1 2 1 2 wrote:
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
yes, repeating the same mistake every game against one of the most aggressive zerg players who's known for pulling fast ones on his opponents. And the same aggressive Zerg that pulled fast ones against Naniwa in a grand finals and shown that he will do so against foreigners. Definitely Code S level mistakes.
Game 1. Lilbow scouts Life opening gas and does not scout Life's Zerglings destroying rocks. This has happened in Code S games.
Game 2. Lilbow misreads a 13|12 opening as 14|14 and dies. This too has happened in Code S games.
Game 3. Lilbow playing against an unscouted 6 Pool tries to take his Nexus before adding 2nd and 3rd Gateway which turns out to put him slightly behind against Life's continued Zergling production then Lilbow goes for heavy Gateway aggresion which Life - being ahead and being aware of Lilbow's intentions - deflects. Who in their right mind is going to argue poorer decision making has not been shown in Code S games?
All in all, it seems to me that you have no idea about this and you are just talking out of your ass. No offense.
On July 03 2016 11:39 MoosyDoosy wrote: so...Blizzcon time but practice for LotV. LotV time but practice for OW. OW time and practice for OW2 or SC3?
On July 03 2016 09:00 1 2 1 2 wrote:
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
yes, repeating the same mistake every game against one of the most aggressive zerg players who's known for pulling fast ones on his opponents. And the same aggressive Zerg that pulled fast ones against Naniwa in a grand finals and shown that he will do so against foreigners. Definitely Code S level mistakes.
Game 1. Lilbow scouts Life opening gas and does not scout Life's Zerglings destroying rocks. This has happened in Code S games.
Game 2. Lilbow misreads a 13|12 opening as 14|14 and dies. This too has happened in Code S games.
Game 3. Lilbow playing against an unscouted 6 Pool tries to take his Nexus before adding 2nd and 3rd Gateway which turns out to put him slightly behind against Life's continued Zergling production then Lilbow goes for heavy Gateway aggresion which Life - being ahead and being aware of Lilbow's intentions - deflects. Who in their right mind is going to argue poorer decision making has not been shown in Code S games?
All in all, it seems to me that you have no idea about this and is just talking out of your ass. No offense.
There is a complete difference between build order losses/snipes as a one time instance in a box and getting fucked 3 times in a row without even trying. You might be astute and bring up that one code A series between soulkey and (solar?) Where soulkey won 3-0 with early pools, but context is everything.
If for a moment you forget every explanation and every excuse Lilbow offered upon losing to explain himself or to protect his ego or however you want to look at it - if for a moment you forget any dislike you may feel for Lilbow that could be clouding your judgement - consider the facts.
Lilbow is to play against a formidable opponent who is not reluctant to be aggressive. Game 1 he scouts a gas opening which gives Life the option to be aggressive. At this point Lilbow has a lot of scenarios to account for. Im sure you realize how Fog of War works and Im sure you appreciate that against a perceived strong if not outright superior opponent Lilbow would be a fool to try not to cut corners (even against equal opponents you would be a fool to never cut corners). He happens to not account for the particular option Life opted for. Could Lilbow have made a Pylon to spot his Rocks being destroyed? Absolutely he could have. Would I if I had been his coach adviced him that this would have been a reasonable move in that particular scenario given the risk/reward? Yes, I would have. But making that Pylon would have had an opportunity cost.
Are you going to argue something similar has not happened in Code S games? (spoiler alert: it has)
Game 2. Lilbow simply misreads a Life's 13|12 opening.
Are you really going to argue something similar has not happened in Code S games? (spoiler alert: it happens frequently)
Game 3: I imagine you would fault Lilbow for not Probe scouting Life in this game. You would argue Life has a thing for being aggressive - particularly against players whom he considers inferior in skill to himself. Yes, I would agree - Life tended to be aggressive a lot (which backfired at times and would have backfired even more times had he played against world class players every game and not just occassionally). Still. Down two games, are you going to fault Lilbow for sticking to his comfort zone? Lilbow of all Protosses of the late HotS era favored not Probe-scouting in PvZ.
At the end of the day, you may disagree with which corners Lilbow chose to cut, but taking everything in account - especially given Lilbow's sound mechanical execution on the day - people like you are not being reasonable towards him.
Not that I like Lilbow myself or think he was a great player. He was never at any point as good as the best Protosses in HotS. But I guess it's triggering me to see people with no clue giving him shit he does not deserve.
I doubt switching from an RTS to a FPS will be easy. He might do decent at the start while nobody knows how to play the game properly and there are hardly any good players.
Well, many of you wonder, why is he not enjoying SC2 anymore. This game is 6 years old. I have got bored playing this game after year and half and pro gamers have to play many times more games than I did. I imagine that remaining players are in this game just for cash prizes, but definitely not for beauty of this game like it used to be.
Everyone who memes lilbow in this thread, what is your opinion on naniwa? If you dont meme soundproofing whenever his name is mentioned you are a bit hypocritical
On July 03 2016 11:39 MoosyDoosy wrote: so...Blizzcon time but practice for LotV. LotV time but practice for OW. OW time and practice for OW2 or SC3?
On July 03 2016 09:00 1 2 1 2 wrote:
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
yes, repeating the same mistake every game against one of the most aggressive zerg players who's known for pulling fast ones on his opponents. And the same aggressive Zerg that pulled fast ones against Naniwa in a grand finals and shown that he will do so against foreigners. Definitely Code S level mistakes.
Game 1. Lilbow scouts Life opening gas and does not scout Life's Zerglings destroying rocks. This has happened in Code S games.
Game 2. Lilbow misreads a 13|12 opening as 14|14 and dies. This too has happened in Code S games.
Game 3. Lilbow playing against an unscouted 6 Pool tries to take his Nexus before adding 2nd and 3rd Gateway which turns out to put him slightly behind against Life's continued Zergling production then Lilbow goes for heavy Gateway aggresion which Life - being ahead and being aware of Lilbow's intentions - deflects. Who in their right mind is going to argue poorer decision making has not been shown in Code S games?
All in all, it seems to me that you have no idea about this and is just talking out of your ass. No offense.
There is a complete difference between build order losses/snipes as a one time instance in a box and getting fucked 3 times in a row without even trying. You might be astute and bring up that one code A series between soulkey and (solar?) Where soulkey won 3-0 with early pools, but context is everything.
If for a moment you forget every explanation and every excuse Lilbow offered upon losing to explain himself or to protect his ego or however you want to look at it - if for a moment you forget any dislike you may feel for Lilbow that could be clouding your judgement - consider the facts.
Lilbow is to play against a formidable opponent who is not reluctant to be aggressive. Game 1 he scouts a gas opening which gives Life the option to be aggressive. At this point Lilbow has a lot of scenarios to account for. Im sure you realize how Fog of War works and Im sure you appreciate that against a perceived strong if not outright superior opponent Lilbow would be a fool to try not to cut corners (even against equal opponents you would be a fool to never cut corners). He happens to not account for the particular option Life opted for. Could Lilbow have made a Pylon to spot his Rocks being destroyed? Absolutely he could have. Would I if I had been his coach adviced him that this would have been a reasonable move in that particular scenario given the risk/reward? Yes, I would have. But making that Pylon would have had an opportunity cost.
Are you going to argue something similar has not happened in Code S games? (spoiler alert: it has)
Game 2. Lilbow simply misreads a Life's 13|12 opening.
Are you really going to argue something similar has not happened in Code S games? (spoiler alert: it happens frequently)
Game 3: I imagine you would fault Lilbow for not Probe scouting Life in this game. You would argue Life has a thing for being aggressive - particularly against players whom he considers inferior in skill to himself. Yes, I would agree - Life tended to be aggressive a lot (which backfired at times and would have backfired even more times had he played against world class players every game and not just occassionally). Still. Down two games, are you going to fault Lilbow for sticking to his comfort zone? Lilbow of all Protosses of the late HotS era favored not Probe-scouting in PvZ.
At the end of the day, you may disagree with which corners Lilbow chose to cut, but taking everything in account - especially given Lilbow's sound mechanical execution on the day - people like you are not being reasonable towards him.
Not that I like Lilbow myself or think he was a great player. He was never at any point as good as the best Protosses in HotS. But I guess it's triggering me to see people with no clue giving him shit he does not deserve.
It just shows a lack of preparation, especially the lack of a probe scout in the 3rd game. I'm a pleb compared to Lilbow, I don't play Starcraft for a living. But I watched enough of Life's games in the Kung Fu Cup going on a bit before Blizzcon to know he was going to cheese the living fuck out of Lilbow. Potentially every game if it works once.
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
Exactly! I never understood why people were hating so much on Lilbow for this.
If for a moment you forget every explanation and every excuse Lilbow offered upon losing to explain himself or to protect his ego or however you want to look at it - if for a moment you forget any dislike you may feel for Lilbow that could be clouding your judgement - consider the facts.
Don't bother analyzing games in a Starcraft forum. People just want to meme and follow the circlejerk while having no idea what they are talking about.
On July 03 2016 04:34 Riner1212 wrote: always thought he was a big arrogant. his body language tells it.
From experience, every Americans thinks that about about half French people tho :p
Not only americans srsly the most french ppl i met where really arrogant. Im german so i may be biased haha
I am not sure what to say after reading ur autistic comment. Oh wait u are german.
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
So, you can generalize ppl and do some country bashing without any problems and when someone respond you by demonstrating this silly way of thinking, you get ban, good job moderators of TL, even after the high defamation with rape accusations that you let occur on this website, you keep continuing to amaze me.
i'm indeed trying to switch into overwatch as I have no more passion for starcraft 2 anymore, basically haven't played the game since 4 months except a tiny bit to prepare for dh tours which I lost 3-2 (again....) I don't wanna say too much, just thanks for you support and do not expect a come back for now as my overwatch experience is truely great
On July 03 2016 00:55 DMXD wrote: Can't really blame him. the starcraft community been on his nuts ever since the blizzcon incident. good luck
I would kinda wish TL had some sort of anti-meme policy where you can't repeat the same tired joke about Lilbow every time he is the topic of conversation.
On July 03 2016 00:55 DMXD wrote: Can't really blame him. the starcraft community been on his nuts ever since the blizzcon incident. good luck
I would kinda wish TL had some sort of anti-meme policy where you can't repeat the same tired joke about Lilbow every time he is the topic of conversation.
why is it not ok to blame someone who wants to have fan support but doesnt train for the most important tournament?
I can't see him doing well in a team game tbh. Overwatch might just be "easy" enough mechanically that he could play some roles/heroes professionally though, in the end it's all practice anyway and if Lilbow is known for anything it's his meticulous training
Wanted to train so bad for LOTV but ended up leaving to play another game (OW) ..like Wtf ..so sad . This is actually a really negative example taken by a player as it shows lack sportsmanship.
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
Exactly! I never understood why people were hating so much on Lilbow for this.
There's no shame losing to Life and with cheese on top of that. If lilbow was more humble and said he lost to a better player, nobody will ever blame him, case close.
But to say he lost because he never practice for blizzcon, he basically shows lack of respect.
On July 03 2016 11:39 MoosyDoosy wrote: so...Blizzcon time but practice for LotV. LotV time but practice for OW. OW time and practice for OW2 or SC3?
On July 03 2016 09:00 1 2 1 2 wrote:
On July 03 2016 08:16 JonnySC2 wrote: Regardless of what happened at Blizzcon Lilbow was easily one of the best foreigners in the last two years and it's a shame that our scene yet again loses a talented player like him.
Funny part is Lilbow didnt even do poorly in his three games. His mistakes that cost him each game could easily have happened (and happens) in Code S games.
yes, repeating the same mistake every game against one of the most aggressive zerg players who's known for pulling fast ones on his opponents. And the same aggressive Zerg that pulled fast ones against Naniwa in a grand finals and shown that he will do so against foreigners. Definitely Code S level mistakes.
Game 1. Lilbow scouts Life opening gas and does not scout Life's Zerglings destroying rocks. This has happened in Code S games.
Game 2. Lilbow misreads a 13|12 opening as 14|14 and dies. This too has happened in Code S games.
Game 3. Lilbow playing against an unscouted 6 Pool tries to take his Nexus before adding 2nd and 3rd Gateway which turns out to put him slightly behind against Life's continued Zergling production then Lilbow goes for heavy Gateway aggresion which Life - being ahead and being aware of Lilbow's intentions - deflects. Who in their right mind is going to argue poorer decision making has not been shown in Code S games?
All in all, it seems to me that you have no idea about this and is just talking out of your ass. No offense.
There is a complete difference between build order losses/snipes as a one time instance in a box and getting fucked 3 times in a row without even trying. You might be astute and bring up that one code A series between soulkey and (solar?) Where soulkey won 3-0 with early pools, but context is everything.
If for a moment you forget every explanation and every excuse Lilbow offered upon losing to explain himself or to protect his ego or however you want to look at it - if for a moment you forget any dislike you may feel for Lilbow that could be clouding your judgement - consider the facts.
Lilbow is to play against a formidable opponent who is not reluctant to be aggressive. Game 1 he scouts a gas opening which gives Life the option to be aggressive. At this point Lilbow has a lot of scenarios to account for. Im sure you realize how Fog of War works and Im sure you appreciate that against a perceived strong if not outright superior opponent Lilbow would be a fool to try not to cut corners (even against equal opponents you would be a fool to never cut corners). He happens to not account for the particular option Life opted for. Could Lilbow have made a Pylon to spot his Rocks being destroyed? Absolutely he could have. Would I if I had been his coach adviced him that this would have been a reasonable move in that particular scenario given the risk/reward? Yes, I would have. But making that Pylon would have had an opportunity cost.
Are you going to argue something similar has not happened in Code S games? (spoiler alert: it has)
Game 2. Lilbow simply misreads a Life's 13|12 opening.
Are you really going to argue something similar has not happened in Code S games? (spoiler alert: it happens frequently)
Game 3: I imagine you would fault Lilbow for not Probe scouting Life in this game. You would argue Life has a thing for being aggressive - particularly against players whom he considers inferior in skill to himself. Yes, I would agree - Life tended to be aggressive a lot (which backfired at times and would have backfired even more times had he played against world class players every game and not just occassionally). Still. Down two games, are you going to fault Lilbow for sticking to his comfort zone? Lilbow of all Protosses of the late HotS era favored not Probe-scouting in PvZ.
At the end of the day, you may disagree with which corners Lilbow chose to cut, but taking everything in account - especially given Lilbow's sound mechanical execution on the day - people like you are not being reasonable towards him.
Not that I like Lilbow myself or think he was a great player. He was never at any point as good as the best Protosses in HotS. But I guess it's triggering me to see people with no clue giving him shit he does not deserve.
The answer is yes, I'm going to fault him for making that stupid mistake, because guess what a stupid mistake was made, and he's the one that made it. It doesn't mean he's a terrible player. In fact the reason this is being discussed here is quite the opposite. He was a very good player at that stage in the game, didn't prepare, lost 3 easy games and was made a fool of. If any Code S player loses in similar fashion, you don't call them terrible players, but you do say that they made mistakes and that those mistakes are their fault. If he wanted to be lazy AND try to win, then he could have at least played safe and tried to counter, or cheese the shift out of life. You don't play a coin flip macro game to win games you haven't prepared for against "superior" players.
On July 03 2016 04:34 Riner1212 wrote: always thought he was a big arrogant. his body language tells it.
From experience, every Americans thinks that about about half French people tho :p
Not only americans srsly the most french ppl i met where really arrogant. Im german so i may be biased haha
I am not sure what to say after reading ur autistic comment. Oh wait u are german.
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
So, you can generalize ppl and do some country bashing without any problems and when someone respond you by demonstrating this silly way of thinking, you get ban, good job moderators of TL, even after the high defamation with rape accusations that you let occur on this website, you keep continuing to amaze me.
There's a difference between calling someone arrogant and calling someone autist (illness). If you can't tell the difference, I'm sorry for you.
On July 03 2016 17:27 Luolis wrote: Everyone who memes lilbow in this thread, what is your opinion on naniwa? If you dont meme soundproofing whenever his name is mentioned you are a bit hypocritical
Oh, I have even less respect for him! Don't worry.
On July 03 2016 04:34 Riner1212 wrote: always thought he was a big arrogant. his body language tells it.
From experience, every Americans thinks that about about half French people tho :p
Not only americans srsly the most french ppl i met where really arrogant. Im german so i may be biased haha
I am not sure what to say after reading ur autistic comment. Oh wait u are german.
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
So, you can generalize ppl and do some country bashing without any problems and when someone respond you by demonstrating this silly way of thinking, you get ban, good job moderators of TL, even after the high defamation with rape accusations that you let occur on this website, you keep continuing to amaze me.
There's a difference between calling someone arrogant and calling someone autist (illness). If you can't tell the difference, I'm sorry for you.
Both were thrown as generalities "all french are arrogants" is as silly as "all german are autists". None of these should have a place on these forums.
On July 03 2016 04:34 Riner1212 wrote: always thought he was a big arrogant. his body language tells it.
From experience, every Americans thinks that about about half French people tho :p
Not only americans srsly the most french ppl i met where really arrogant. Im german so i may be biased haha
I am not sure what to say after reading ur autistic comment. Oh wait u are german.
User was warned for this post
User was temp banned for this post.
So, you can generalize ppl and do some country bashing without any problems and when someone respond you by demonstrating this silly way of thinking, you get ban, good job moderators of TL, even after the high defamation with rape accusations that you let occur on this website, you keep continuing to amaze me.
There's a difference between calling someone arrogant and calling someone autist (illness). If you can't tell the difference, I'm sorry for you.
There's difference between "someone" and "french people" or germans'one, you don't understand what a generalization is, modo don't understand it, I feel sorry for all of you too. Moreover, adnap adopted the same posture in an extreme way just to prove how idiot it was but here again, this is beyond you. Don't know what you would think if after meeting a bulgar who would be a terrible guy, I was throwing statement like "Bulgars are ugly, arrogants, idiots" or stuff like this, I am pretty sure you would find this not very clever too but you didn't even consider the situation on this way I guess. But hey, you can accuse someone of raping just for a joke on this website so I guess saying "French ppl are arrogants LOL" is pretty much ok.
edit: I was not a fan of Lilbow either, this guy has a shitty mentality.
Never really been a fan of Lilbow. I respect his decision making and the gut feeling that he had in HotS to blink Stalker all in at the perfect time. Best of luck!
On July 03 2016 00:55 DMXD wrote: Can't really blame him. the starcraft community been on his nuts ever since the blizzcon incident. good luck
I would kinda wish TL had some sort of anti-meme policy where you can't repeat the same tired joke about Lilbow every time he is the topic of conversation.
why is it not ok to blame someone who wants to have fan support but doesnt train for the most important tournament?
Do you really think it's okay to turn someone's career into a joke based on one stupid thing they did? Or to mention this joke every single time they are the topic of conversation? Lilbow is one of the most successful foreigners ever, with a long history in the game, but none of that matters because this one time he made a stupid judgment call.
Lilbow is a perfect example of why progamers are advised to stop reading forums and stop interacting. There is scarcely any difference between laughing at this super hilarious meme that's only been repeated 500000 times and literal harassment.
And it's not like Lilbow is particularly egregious in what he did. He just had the misfortune of becoming a meme.
Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
So is competitive Overwatch a thing? Do people watch it? I have absolutely no idea ... In any case, Lilbow gave us great performances and even greater jokes on his account so I will remember him fondly.
On July 04 2016 03:49 Nebuchad wrote: Let's also mention that I'm something like 96% sure that he did prepare for Blizzcon, while we're at it.
Of course he did. Life was just insanely better than he was and he knew it.
I don't know why he ever thought it was a good idea to lie and try and minimize his loss the way he did. I don't think anyone ACTUALLY expected him to win, if he had just lost graciously he would've been way better off.
On July 04 2016 03:49 Nebuchad wrote: Let's also mention that I'm something like 96% sure that he did prepare for Blizzcon, while we're at it.
Of course he did. Life was just insanely better than he was and he knew it.
I don't know why he ever thought it was a good idea to lie and try and minimize his loss the way he did. I don't think anyone ACTUALLY expected him to win, if he had just lost graciously he would've been way better off.
Now he's a walking meme. Good work on his part.
Obviously he didn't "think" that it was a good idea, that's an emotional response, not a rational one.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
I'm gonna quote this because a few people seem to have just skipped over what I can only describe as a wonderful post. Stay classy fine sir
I don't think he's really hated at least I never felt that way. People are just making jokes about him and when you do something like he did you kinda have to live with the jokes because it's obviously funny.
Just like naniwa has to live with jokes about soundproofing or idra with jokes about rage-quitting. You can't tell people they aren't allowed to make fun about something like that.
On July 04 2016 06:28 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think he's really hated at least I never felt that way. People are just making jokes about him and when you do something like he did you kinda have to live with the jokes because it's obviously funny.
Just like naniwa has to live with jokes about soundproofing or idra with jokes about rage-quitting. You can't tell people they aren't allowed to make fun about something like that.
You'd be surprised how strongly people can hate someone they don't know and have no stake in, just because they think they're supposed to. Not hated? This is the internet, and while you might be treating it as simple jokes, others sure don't see it that way.
On July 04 2016 06:28 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think he's really hated at least I never felt that way. People are just making jokes about him and when you do something like he did you kinda have to live with the jokes because it's obviously funny.
Just like naniwa has to live with jokes about soundproofing or idra with jokes about rage-quitting. You can't tell people they aren't allowed to make fun about something like that.
You'd be surprised how strongly people can hate someone they don't know and have no stake in, just because they think they're supposed to. Not hated? This is the internet, and while you might be treating it as simple jokes, others sure don't see it that way.
Just look at this thread. Sure there are a lot of jokes but the majority of people also wish him good luck in OW. if he would be really hated they wouldn't do that.
Good luck to him, I think he has more "potential" in SC2. You can be a really amazing Overwatch player, but if the right team isn't looking for a person of your skills, you're not going to have anything to show for it. Really big leap of faith from a professional standpoint, but if it makes him happy I guess thats the best choice no matter what.
On July 04 2016 03:09 opisska wrote: So is competitive Overwatch a thing? Do people watch it? I have absolutely no idea ... In any case, Lilbow gave us great performances and even greater jokes on his account so I will remember him fondly.
It is absolutely a thing now, but it remains to be seen if there's going to be a lasting scene.
In the big picture, I still think Lilbow made the correct career decisions in all cases, and the only thing he might be guilty of was being a cynical jerk when people wanted him (somewhat unfairly) to carry the burden of their hopes
I started playing Stellaris the other day, maybe there can be a news article about that since it seems to be of equal importance compared to this person playing Overwatch.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
I'm gonna quote this because a few people seem to have just skipped over what I can only describe as a wonderful post. Stay classy fine sir
Other people here had better and more concise posts, than this gentleman who basically called others "hypocrite dicks", to use his words exactly. That's not a "fine sir" in my book
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
Welcome to the era of memes, where you better be perfect in every way if you don't want to be the victim of basement dwellers thinking they're funny.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
Welcome to the era of memes, where you better be perfect in every way if you don't want to be the victim of basement dwellers thinking they're funny.
I make a mental note of tagging everyone who still shits on Lilbow for his blizzcon performance as an absolute idiot. Wouldn't mind if TL had a block/ignore function.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
Welcome to the era of memes, where you better be perfect in every way if you don't want to be the victim of basement dwellers thinking they're funny.
+82 Don't worry guys... he will be back for Starcraft 3
+68 He's probably already started practicing for it. You know, no point in playing OW right now anyways
+79 So that means he will start practicing Quake Champions soon?
+23 Lilbow, you will be always in my heart. [links to his Blizzcon Series] Good luck with your new Life
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+7 sorry bro, he decided to be a meme himself.
+44 oh man this meme will haunt him to his grave
+64 It's like he is purposely trying to become a meme
+ he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on
+15 it's hysterical how bad he is a making a fan base for himself based on anything but his game play. Hope he figures that out if he wants any long term remembrance as anything but a sc2 meme.
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+12 while he did play well when he was winning it was almost single handedly down to blink stalkers being broken in HotS. Now they're not as good he fell off a cliff. I dont see him as a well rounded player that achieved great things, i see him as someone who was a 1 hit wonder winning in a meta that favored him
+3 He did blink stalker all-ins every game. No wonder he died with release of LotV
+11 His career died when they released the ravager and you couldn't do sentry abuse the entire game vs Zerg.
+13 Glad this lad disappears from the SC scene, sad he switches to another Blizzard game. Which pro Overwatch team wants to pick up a no show like this anyway?
+3 he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on.
Im glad he retired. This badly designed game deserve to die.
"i know its blizzcon and its important but well, i didnt wanted to spend months practicing for one match while i can practice for 5+ years" Lilbow you are a JOKE LOL
buh bye lilbitch
As is common to all forms of media, they never take responsibility for creating narratives. Apparently Lilbow himself decided to "become a meme". And I'm sure that the funny memes give cover to the abusive comments that you see in that thread.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
Welcome to the era of memes, where you better be perfect in every way if you don't want to be the victim of basement dwellers thinking they're funny.
+82 Don't worry guys... he will be back for Starcraft 3
+68 He's probably already started practicing for it. You know, no point in playing OW right now anyways
+79 So that means he will start practicing Quake Champions soon?
+23 Lilbow, you will be always in my heart. [links to his Blizzcon Series] Good luck with your new Life
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+7 sorry bro, he decided to be a meme himself.
+44 oh man this meme will haunt him to his grave
+64 It's like he is purposely trying to become a meme
+ he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on
+15 it's hysterical how bad he is a making a fan base for himself based on anything but his game play. Hope he figures that out if he wants any long term remembrance as anything but a sc2 meme.
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+12 while he did play well when he was winning it was almost single handedly down to blink stalkers being broken in HotS. Now they're not as good he fell off a cliff. I dont see him as a well rounded player that achieved great things, i see him as someone who was a 1 hit wonder winning in a meta that favored him
+3 He did blink stalker all-ins every game. No wonder he died with release of LotV
+11 His career died when they released the ravager and you couldn't do sentry abuse the entire game vs Zerg.
+13 Glad this lad disappears from the SC scene, sad he switches to another Blizzard game. Which pro Overwatch team wants to pick up a no show like this anyway?
+3 he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on.
Im glad he retired. This badly designed game deserve to die.
"i know its blizzcon and its important but well, i didnt wanted to spend months practicing for one match while i can practice for 5+ years" Lilbow you are a JOKE LOL
buh bye lilbitch
As is common to all forms of media, they never take responsibility for creating narratives. Apparently Lilbow himself decided to "become a meme". And I'm sure that the funny memes give cover to the abusive comments that you see in that thread.
reddit is a shithole don't expect anything reasonable to come from that site. people just desperately try to be funny to get upvoted.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
Welcome to the era of memes, where you better be perfect in every way if you don't want to be the victim of basement dwellers thinking they're funny.
+82 Don't worry guys... he will be back for Starcraft 3
+68 He's probably already started practicing for it. You know, no point in playing OW right now anyways
+79 So that means he will start practicing Quake Champions soon?
+23 Lilbow, you will be always in my heart. [links to his Blizzcon Series] Good luck with your new Life
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+7 sorry bro, he decided to be a meme himself.
+44 oh man this meme will haunt him to his grave
+64 It's like he is purposely trying to become a meme
+ he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on
+15 it's hysterical how bad he is a making a fan base for himself based on anything but his game play. Hope he figures that out if he wants any long term remembrance as anything but a sc2 meme.
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+12 while he did play well when he was winning it was almost single handedly down to blink stalkers being broken in HotS. Now they're not as good he fell off a cliff. I dont see him as a well rounded player that achieved great things, i see him as someone who was a 1 hit wonder winning in a meta that favored him
+3 He did blink stalker all-ins every game. No wonder he died with release of LotV
+11 His career died when they released the ravager and you couldn't do sentry abuse the entire game vs Zerg.
+13 Glad this lad disappears from the SC scene, sad he switches to another Blizzard game. Which pro Overwatch team wants to pick up a no show like this anyway?
+3 he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on.
Im glad he retired. This badly designed game deserve to die.
"i know its blizzcon and its important but well, i didnt wanted to spend months practicing for one match while i can practice for 5+ years" Lilbow you are a JOKE LOL
buh bye lilbitch
As is common to all forms of media, they never take responsibility for creating narratives. Apparently Lilbow himself decided to "become a meme". And I'm sure that the funny memes give cover to the abusive comments that you see in that thread.
reddit is a shithole don't expect anything reasonable to come from that site. people just desperately try to be funny to get upvoted.
I've seen a huge amount of negativity and agressive feelings in the TL forum.
I would say it is more the SC2 community in itself that became hugely negative and sometimes toxic, last few years. Look at the CS:GO reddit, it is more funny, more constructive and you see a outright positive attitude towards the game and the actors involved.
Funny how everyone (even the redaction) likes to shit on the "patchzerg" like Sniper, Jonnyrecco who took way more "offensive" jokes than Lilbow but ppl gets over sensitive for one joke when the guy has acted like a cynical fool. Very "classy" indeed. Morevoer, even Lilbow jokes about it when he says "I'm always one step ahead" and stuff like this but hey, despite the fact he is probably ill at ease in media, he is still less repressed than the parangons of virtue who fight the vice in TL.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
Welcome to the era of memes, where you better be perfect in every way if you don't want to be the victim of basement dwellers thinking they're funny.
+82 Don't worry guys... he will be back for Starcraft 3
+68 He's probably already started practicing for it. You know, no point in playing OW right now anyways
+79 So that means he will start practicing Quake Champions soon?
+23 Lilbow, you will be always in my heart. [links to his Blizzcon Series] Good luck with your new Life
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+7 sorry bro, he decided to be a meme himself.
+44 oh man this meme will haunt him to his grave
+64 It's like he is purposely trying to become a meme
+ he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on
+15 it's hysterical how bad he is a making a fan base for himself based on anything but his game play. Hope he figures that out if he wants any long term remembrance as anything but a sc2 meme.
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+12 while he did play well when he was winning it was almost single handedly down to blink stalkers being broken in HotS. Now they're not as good he fell off a cliff. I dont see him as a well rounded player that achieved great things, i see him as someone who was a 1 hit wonder winning in a meta that favored him
+3 He did blink stalker all-ins every game. No wonder he died with release of LotV
+11 His career died when they released the ravager and you couldn't do sentry abuse the entire game vs Zerg.
+13 Glad this lad disappears from the SC scene, sad he switches to another Blizzard game. Which pro Overwatch team wants to pick up a no show like this anyway?
+3 he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on.
Im glad he retired. This badly designed game deserve to die.
"i know its blizzcon and its important but well, i didnt wanted to spend months practicing for one match while i can practice for 5+ years" Lilbow you are a JOKE LOL
buh bye lilbitch
As is common to all forms of media, they never take responsibility for creating narratives. Apparently Lilbow himself decided to "become a meme". And I'm sure that the funny memes give cover to the abusive comments that you see in that thread.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
I'm gonna quote this because a few people seem to have just skipped over what I can only describe as a wonderful post. Stay classy fine sir
Other people here had better and more concise posts, than this gentleman who basically called others "hypocrite dicks", to use his words exactly. That's not a "fine sir" in my book
So do you think it's fine to continue ridiculing somebody far beyond the point of fairness? To take every opportunity the internet presents you to be a dick about someone you don't know, because you might get a few LOL's? He calls people hypocrites and dicks in his post because the words fit. When life presents you with a spade, you call it a spade.
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
Welcome to the era of memes, where you better be perfect in every way if you don't want to be the victim of basement dwellers thinking they're funny.
+82 Don't worry guys... he will be back for Starcraft 3
+68 He's probably already started practicing for it. You know, no point in playing OW right now anyways
+79 So that means he will start practicing Quake Champions soon?
+23 Lilbow, you will be always in my heart. [links to his Blizzcon Series] Good luck with your new Life
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+7 sorry bro, he decided to be a meme himself.
+44 oh man this meme will haunt him to his grave
+64 It's like he is purposely trying to become a meme
+ he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on
+15 it's hysterical how bad he is a making a fan base for himself based on anything but his game play. Hope he figures that out if he wants any long term remembrance as anything but a sc2 meme.
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+12 while he did play well when he was winning it was almost single handedly down to blink stalkers being broken in HotS. Now they're not as good he fell off a cliff. I dont see him as a well rounded player that achieved great things, i see him as someone who was a 1 hit wonder winning in a meta that favored him
+3 He did blink stalker all-ins every game. No wonder he died with release of LotV
+11 His career died when they released the ravager and you couldn't do sentry abuse the entire game vs Zerg.
+13 Glad this lad disappears from the SC scene, sad he switches to another Blizzard game. Which pro Overwatch team wants to pick up a no show like this anyway?
+3 he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on.
Im glad he retired. This badly designed game deserve to die.
"i know its blizzcon and its important but well, i didnt wanted to spend months practicing for one match while i can practice for 5+ years" Lilbow you are a JOKE LOL
buh bye lilbitch
As is common to all forms of media, they never take responsibility for creating narratives. Apparently Lilbow himself decided to "become a meme". And I'm sure that the funny memes give cover to the abusive comments that you see in that thread.
the influence of a upvote /downvote system :D
I wish TL forums had the same system, then i could down vote the people who constantly post about their "version" of game balance into oblivion
On July 04 2016 02:59 NonY wrote: Wow. After Lilbow's statement about his preparation for Blizzcon, he received a lot of disapproval and criticism, including from me. But once a person has made a mistake and been censured for it, it is primitive to continuously relate that mistake to every single thing the person does. Is it surprising that he'd benefit from a new scene when a significant portion of this community hates him despite all the great performances he gave? And for those still beating down on him: isn't losing his passion for SC2 already punishment enough? It's clear that he's had a miserable 2016. How much suffering do you have to observe him go through before you can forgive him for when he chose to transition to LotV and his departures from your etiquette? The hatred doesn't fit the transgressions. When you consider his positive contributions, the scale becomes even more unbalanced.
People who cannot let go at this point and move forward on to more productive rather than destructive behavior are hypocrites. It's like people thinking they're on the moral high ground saying "Stay classy!" when that's never a classy or productive thing to say. So go ahead and be assholes forever to a guy because of some mistakes he made but be aware that you're the ones in the gutter. And consider that if it only takes a few minor consistent imperfections, or a few mistakes, for you to hate a person forever, then you'll end up generating more hatred and negativity and destruction to the world than the targets of your punishment. It's an unreasonable way to behave that seems okay only because you've got a mob on your side. Think clearly for a second and stop being dicks.
Welcome to the era of memes, where you better be perfect in every way if you don't want to be the victim of basement dwellers thinking they're funny.
+82 Don't worry guys... he will be back for Starcraft 3
+68 He's probably already started practicing for it. You know, no point in playing OW right now anyways
+79 So that means he will start practicing Quake Champions soon?
+23 Lilbow, you will be always in my heart. [links to his Blizzcon Series] Good luck with your new Life
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+7 sorry bro, he decided to be a meme himself.
+44 oh man this meme will haunt him to his grave
+64 It's like he is purposely trying to become a meme
+ he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on
+15 it's hysterical how bad he is a making a fan base for himself based on anything but his game play. Hope he figures that out if he wants any long term remembrance as anything but a sc2 meme.
+3 I find it hard to take him seriously after the past year, does not seem a professional at all. So let us meme!
+12 while he did play well when he was winning it was almost single handedly down to blink stalkers being broken in HotS. Now they're not as good he fell off a cliff. I dont see him as a well rounded player that achieved great things, i see him as someone who was a 1 hit wonder winning in a meta that favored him
+3 He did blink stalker all-ins every game. No wonder he died with release of LotV
+11 His career died when they released the ravager and you couldn't do sentry abuse the entire game vs Zerg.
+13 Glad this lad disappears from the SC scene, sad he switches to another Blizzard game. Which pro Overwatch team wants to pick up a no show like this anyway?
+3 he'll ride that overwatch train for a year or so and then when the buzz/esports scene dies down (heroes anyone), he will look for something else that is the current hype train to jump on.
Im glad he retired. This badly designed game deserve to die.
"i know its blizzcon and its important but well, i didnt wanted to spend months practicing for one match while i can practice for 5+ years" Lilbow you are a JOKE LOL
buh bye lilbitch
As is common to all forms of media, they never take responsibility for creating narratives. Apparently Lilbow himself decided to "become a meme". And I'm sure that the funny memes give cover to the abusive comments that you see in that thread.
the influence of a upvote /downvote system :D
I wish TL forums had the same system, then i could down vote the people who constantly post about their "version" of game balance into oblivion
a upvote/downvote system is the worst thing that can happen to an internetforum.
On July 05 2016 02:28 Topdoller wrote: I wish TL forums had the same system, then i could down vote the people who constantly post about their "version" of game balance into oblivion
a upvote/downvote system is the worst thing that can happen to an internetforum.
Pretty much. Nothing discourages legitimate discussion as much as a +- system.
As far as I know he hasn't admitted he made a mistake in not practicing for blizzcon, so I say any jokes made about blizzcon at his expense are fair game.
On July 05 2016 02:28 Topdoller wrote: I wish TL forums had the same system, then i could down vote the people who constantly post about their "version" of game balance into oblivion
a upvote/downvote system is the worst thing that can happen to an internetforum.
Pretty much. Nothing discourages legitimate discussion as much as a +- system.
There's another forum I used to post on which had the TL-style discussion board but with upvotes. I think it's a fairly non-intrusive way to add voting to a forum because you don't get the ability to sort by popularity and whatnot.
It has some advantages: it cuts down on some spam when people just want to agree with a post but don't have anything else to add; it's a way to resolve some discussions, since you like other posts even if you had an argument before; and for example, if people liked Nony's post (hidden on page 8-9) then they could have upvoted it and it would get a light border after +10 upvotes or something and it would be more noticeable to someone scanning the page, and; it discourages repeat posts of the same meme and sentiment later in threads.
I still felt dirty whenever I would get an upvote though, but I wouldn't mind if TL had something like that. But there are disadvantages to this system too.
edit: and for TL they could make it so only TL+ members would be allowed to upvote
On July 05 2016 02:28 Topdoller wrote: I wish TL forums had the same system, then i could down vote the people who constantly post about their "version" of game balance into oblivion
a upvote/downvote system is the worst thing that can happen to an internetforum.
Pretty much. Nothing discourages legitimate discussion as much as a +- system.
There's another forum I used to post on which had the TL-style discussion board but with upvotes. I think it's a fairly non-intrusive way to add voting to a forum because you don't get the ability to sort by popularity and whatnot.
It has some advantages: it cuts down on some spam when people just want to agree with a post but don't have anything else to add; it's a way to resolve some discussions, since you like other posts even if you had an argument before; and for example, if people liked Nony's post (hidden on page 8-9) then they could have upvoted it and it would get a light border after +10 upvotes or something and it would be more noticeable to someone scanning the page, and; it discourages repeat posts of the same meme and sentiment later in threads.
I still felt dirty whenever I would get an upvote though, but I wouldn't mind if TL had something like that. But there are disadvantages to this system too.
edit: and for TL they could make it so only TL+ members would be allowed to upvote
On the other side many people won't post anymore because they want to add something to the discussion but because they are seeking for upvotes which encourages memeing/trolling/shitposting, also people get afraid of posting unpopular opinions because they know they'll get downvoted, then there are a ton of votes just depending on the (un)popularity of the poster, the list goes on and on. I would never post on a forum with a +- system.
On July 05 2016 02:28 Topdoller wrote: I wish TL forums had the same system, then i could down vote the people who constantly post about their "version" of game balance into oblivion
a upvote/downvote system is the worst thing that can happen to an internetforum.
Pretty much. Nothing discourages legitimate discussion as much as a +- system.
There's another forum I used to post on which had the TL-style discussion board but with upvotes. I think it's a fairly non-intrusive way to add voting to a forum because you don't get the ability to sort by popularity and whatnot.
It has some advantages: it cuts down on some spam when people just want to agree with a post but don't have anything else to add; it's a way to resolve some discussions, since you like other posts even if you had an argument before; and for example, if people liked Nony's post (hidden on page 8-9) then they could have upvoted it and it would get a light border after +10 upvotes or something and it would be more noticeable to someone scanning the page, and; it discourages repeat posts of the same meme and sentiment later in threads.
I still felt dirty whenever I would get an upvote though, but I wouldn't mind if TL had something like that. But there are disadvantages to this system too.
edit: and for TL they could make it so only TL+ members would be allowed to upvote
On the other side many people won't post anymore because they want to add something to the discussion but because they are seeking for upvotes which encourages memeing/trolling/shitposting, also people get afraid of posting unpopular opinions because they know they'll get downvoted, then there are a ton of votes just depending on the (un)popularity of the poster, the list goes on and on. I would never post on a forum with a +- system.
I don't know if it would work exactly like that. For one, the voting is optional and barely contributes to visibility of the post. Second, downvotes would not be allowed.
If I recall there is some psychological experiment along the following lines:
A person is placed in a group. He is told those other people are study participants, but in reality they are researchers. They are given an image of two lines, with one larger than the other. The group consensus becomes that the lines are equally long, and it's investigated whether the person will challenge group consensus. The results show that remarkably often the study participant will go along with a consensus he knows to be false, but also that the addition of only one other person speaking up hugely increases his willingness to fight for what he believes to be right.
I don't know if it went exactly like that, but it has some implications for juries and such.
Anyhow, point would be that if you post something unpopular, getting even a handful of upvotes could strengthen your resolve to stand for your opinion.
But if I'm honest I have to say I didn't like this concept much on that other site, because frequently I would get upvotes for stating the obvious, while if I made serious posts they would be ignored.
You can't really blame him. Blizzard isn't really doing good job to increase viewership and the number of players. It's hard to be motivated. Blizzard has been pushing players for years, so they reap what they sow. People give up on the game, retire or switch to another game.
And he was suppose to be the next Stephano... Just goes to show how little foreigners deserve a spot. Instead of Welfare Crap Series just give Koreans all the money. They actually deserve it.
On July 05 2016 09:51 MaCRo.gg wrote: And he was suppose to be the next Stephano... Just goes to show how little foreigners deserve a spot. Instead of Welfare Crap Series just give Koreans all the money. They actually deserve it.
I look forward to him failing at Overrated.
I hear being edgy and generalistic helps generate productive discussion.
On July 05 2016 09:51 MaCRo.gg wrote: And he was suppose to be the next Stephano... Just goes to show how little foreigners deserve a spot. Instead of Welfare Crap Series just give Koreans all the money. They actually deserve it.
I look forward to him failing at Overrated.
Yes indeed a guy retiring = foreigners dont deserve a spot. Dafuq?
I haven't said anything in forever, but I really want to make fun of this. Is he practicing really hard for Overwatch? Will he do nothing of merit then leave right after?
On July 05 2016 09:51 MaCRo.gg wrote: And he was suppose to be the next Stephano... Just goes to show how little foreigners deserve a spot. Instead of Welfare Crap Series just give Koreans all the money. They actually deserve it.
I look forward to him failing at Overrated.
Yes indeed a guy retiring = foreigners dont deserve a spot. Dafuq?
Actually thinking instead of saying the first words out of my mouth, I'd think that this guy was saying "instead of giving people who know they will lose a chance at money, just make it an all Korean tournament so we can see people actually fight for a trophy instead of a welfare player playing against a top player" Those wouldn't be my words, as I'd hope to see an American or European at the top, BUT, having your top foreigner not practice for the tournament the entire system is built around just to say "oh, I don't care about the game, I'm actually practicing for a non-eSports title, I totally would have won if I'd have tried though!" kinda makes you feel like saying fuck you to the system and letting actual professionals take those spots.
On July 05 2016 05:49 Shield wrote: You can't really blame him. Blizzard isn't really doing good job to increase viewership and the number of players. It's hard to be motivated. Blizzard has been pushing players for years, so they reap what they sow. People give up on the game, retire or switch to another game.
Omg, fanboy alert. You cannot blame blizzard. He made himself a joke, a clown with his blizzcon attitude. Then he simply couldn't adapt well enough to lotv and couldnt deliver not even decent results. And in the past tournaments he was also struggling and was lightyears from the top spots in any tournament. while we cannot say his race is underpowered in any way. Just look at Ptitdrogo, Showtime, Neeb etc ( i wont even mention Dear and Zest). He simply miscalculated and it backfired. Blizzard is not the one to be blamed here.
On July 05 2016 05:49 Shield wrote: You can't really blame him. Blizzard isn't really doing good job to increase viewership and the number of players. It's hard to be motivated. Blizzard has been pushing players for years, so they reap what they sow. People give up on the game, retire or switch to another game.
Omg, fanboy alert. You cannot blame blizzard. He made himself a joke, a clown with his blizzcon attitude. Then he simply couldn't adapt well enough to lotv and couldnt deliver not even decent results. And in the past tournaments he was also struggling and was lightyears from the top spots in any tournament. while we cannot say his race is underpowered in any way. Just look at Ptitdrogo, Showtime, Neeb etc ( i wont even mention Dear and Zest). He simply miscalculated and it backfired. Blizzard is not the one to be blamed here.
I heard that he was practicing SC3, did I get the wrong message?
Poor Lilbow, his SC2 success will live all his "Life" with him. He needs to: 1. Change nick. asHameD, piTifuL or patHeTiC are available. 2. Undergo a cosmetic surgery. Nobody would recognize him. 3. Change his name. Everybody would understand that. 4. Change the game. To some without many professional players. Minesweeper or even slither.io might be good. 5. Never again (in any interview) mention, that he is preparing for some other game. Then, eventually, he could rest in peace.
So many 'Shit post's' in this thread, those posting them should really be ashamed of themselves.
Best of luck to Lilbow, I will miss you in SC2 but fully understand your decision to move over to OW. Thanks for the memories, well the good ones anyway xD All the best kid!
On July 05 2016 05:49 Shield wrote: You can't really blame him. Blizzard isn't really doing good job to increase viewership and the number of players. It's hard to be motivated. Blizzard has been pushing players for years, so they reap what they sow. People give up on the game, retire or switch to another game.
Omg, fanboy alert. You cannot blame blizzard. He made himself a joke, a clown with his blizzcon attitude. Then he simply couldn't adapt well enough to lotv and couldnt deliver not even decent results. And in the past tournaments he was also struggling and was lightyears from the top spots in any tournament. while we cannot say his race is underpowered in any way. Just look at Ptitdrogo, Showtime, Neeb etc ( i wont even mention Dear and Zest). He simply miscalculated and it backfired. Blizzard is not the one to be blamed here.
Brain alert, I'm not a fanboy of Lilbow at all. I barely know him how he plays. It's the attitude of Blizzard which I criticise.
Wait! He will surprise you all! He will pretend to practice OverWatch and in between, secretly practice SC2 and become the foreign hope in SC2 again ... #MAKELILBOWGREATAGAIN
I feel less bad for losing to him in a WoL clanwar after seeing his success in both HotS and LotV (he had a good resurgence during/after Nation Wars no matter what some people seem to think on this thread :o).
I'm also glad he didn't waste too much time practicing for a match against a match fixer, being 3-0ed out of a tournament by a -albeit top performer- cheater isn't a worse offense for this game than what his tormentor did. His emotional response to this match, even if it wasn't very classy, shows that he actually cared.
Thank you for what you brought to France and other foreign countries in Starcraft 2, and for all the training you put in order to achieve that, and for showing us exciting, agressive and intense games, be it in losing or winning. Hopefully you'll find success in Overwatch even though it's a team FPS game.
I always tell my friends to visit TL because people here are more grown up than in many other forums. This is a poor example though and I really think people should calm down and rather say nothing than posting insults and the same "jokes" over and over again.
I don't follow the scene as much as I did a few years ago and I didn't catch 100% of the drama, but I remember times where the whole community was excited when foreigners showed good results and tried to compete at the top. Despite not agreeing with every decision made we could still respect people who made it far. You have to give up a lot to make it to this point and switching can only make things better for him now I guess. GL HF in Overwatch
On July 06 2016 02:07 Shield wrote: Brain alert, I'm not a fanboy of Lilbow at all. I barely know him how he plays. It's the attitude of Blizzard which I criticise.
Look, maybe blizzard had bad moves. I admit that. But you can't blame Blizzard, because someone couldn't deliver good results, while others could.
I wouldn't say that Lilbow has a chance to reach top world level in Overwatch but what's make the big difference between a random player and these guy is that they can try hard as hell. They can focus 12hours a day and practice effectively for hours and i have no doubt that he'll reach a very good level (ie Mlord who is a heartstone legend player , top euro sc2 player and has a veeeeery decent CS:GO level )
Plus he'll be surrounded by pro players which is a big advantage.
I can understand lilbow's decision as Sc2 community is decreasing quickly and if you want to make a correct living out of it you have to be part of the top 10 euro players and the game has become way too competitve.
Blows my mind how this "new" generation of gamers jumps onto the hype train of Overwatch. It's like UT or Quake III Arena had sex with LoL or DotA and everybody's like "CRAZY, this is the next level shit" when it's just another arena shooter lmao.
Better for Lilbow to switch the game, there's nothing left here but burned soil - Although I fear he will eventually fuck up there, as well, he's got an attitude problem.
On July 06 2016 20:26 Creager wrote: Blows my mind how this "new" generation of gamers jumps onto the hype train of Overwatch. It's like UT or Quake III Arena had sex with LoL or DotA and everybody's like "CRAZY, this is the next level shit" when it's just another arena shooter lmao.
On July 06 2016 20:26 Creager wrote: Blows my mind how this "new" generation of gamers jumps onto the hype train of Overwatch. It's like UT or Quake III Arena had sex with LoL or DotA and everybody's like "CRAZY, this is the next level shit" when it's just another arena shooter lmao.
Before you get any more edgy, have you played it?
Yes, I've tried it during the open beta weekend before launch, that's not much I admit, but from what I experienced it's nothing special, certainly a well-made shooter, but not groundbreaking as many people apparently think it is. Probably also factors in that it doesn't appeal as well to my age group (around 30) as it's getting pretty hard to find a group of people to play on a regular basis. Solo queueing wasn't much fun for me, all this eye candy and constant achievement bling-bling wasn't fun, all felt pretty "meaningless" (I know, weird term to use for a game).
TL;DR I'm just devolving into a grumpy old man, I guess.
On July 06 2016 20:26 Creager wrote: Blows my mind how this "new" generation of gamers jumps onto the hype train of Overwatch. It's like UT or Quake III Arena had sex with LoL or DotA and everybody's like "CRAZY, this is the next level shit" when it's just another arena shooter lmao.
Before you get any more edgy, have you played it?
Yes, I've tried it during the open beta weekend before launch, that's not much I admit, but from what I experienced it's nothing special, certainly a well-made shooter, but not groundbreaking as many people apparently think it is. Probably also factors in that it doesn't appeal as well to my age group (around 30) as it's getting pretty hard to find a group of people to play on a regular basis. Solo queueing wasn't much fun for me, all this eye candy and constant achievement bling-bling wasn't fun, all felt pretty "meaningless" (I know, weird term to use for a game).
TL;DR I'm just devolving into a grumpy old man, I guess.
I'm not saying you have to like it, but the game has more polish than any game I've ever played, and people are responding to it. I know you say it doesn't really break new ground, but it really does take a fresh approach that most shooters don't. When you think of a FPS, you think of assault rifles and grenade launchers, but with characters like Reinhardt, Hanzo and Winston, that clearly break away from the idea that guns are a given, it has fresh new ideas that are all executed very well. When you play as Reinhardt you really feel like a giant hammer-swinging shield, there's a great sense of embodiment for whatever character you play. If that's not your thing, that's ok, but people really enjoy that kind of thing.
This guy has a bad history as of late in SC2 but Starcraft has been bleeding players for a long time now. I just want a new RTS to invigorate the scene.. don't really like MOBA's.
On July 06 2016 16:20 Sewi wrote: I always tell my friends to visit TL because people here are more grown up than in many other forums. This is a poor example though and I really think people should calm down and rather say nothing than posting insults and the same "jokes" over and over again.
I don't follow the scene as much as I did a few years ago and I didn't catch 100% of the drama, but I remember times where the whole community was excited when foreigners showed good results and tried to compete at the top. Despite not agreeing with every decision made we could still respect people who made it far. You have to give up a lot to make it to this point and switching can only make things better for him now I guess. GL HF in Overwatch
Okay, I respect what you mean here but if you were around a few years ago you KNOW things were exactly the same when people talked about Idra, and then Naniwa after that. The way people and the community talk about players they don't like the actions of has not changed a bit.
On July 11 2016 13:03 BlackGosu wrote: sc2 is simply behind every other game. money is gone, magic is gone, fans are gone
its still the hardest competitive game and has the best players in the world playing top shit. ill take that over whatever fad comes around.
thats what we call elitism
literally not what elitism is. definitely not the word you're looking for. or if you're sure it is, then you've learned it from people misusing it too.
On July 11 2016 13:03 BlackGosu wrote: sc2 is simply behind every other game. money is gone, magic is gone, fans are gone
its still the hardest competitive game and has the best players in the world playing top shit. ill take that over whatever fad comes around.
thats what we call elitism
literally not what elitism is. definitely not the word you're looking for. or if you're sure it is, then you've learned it from people misusing it too.
I think there's nothing wrong with preferring SC2 to other games because of the skill component, but there is an elitist undertone when you say that other games are, as a result, a fad. A game's level of accessibility is something that should be respected, because it's very important to a game's success. Leveraging accessibility towards a claim that said game is inferior or a "fad" is simply not true. Such a statement simply doesn't mean anything, it doesn't add anything to a real discussion about competitive games and how they succeed.
I don't want to just be a stickler and quote a reference text to prove a point, but honestly it'd just be easier to communicate the idea by starting with that. Look how Wikipedia describes elitism:
Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, high intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others; whose views on a matter are to be taken more seriously or carry more weight; whose views or actions are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities, or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.[1]
Alternatively, the term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people. Oppositions of elitism include anti-elitism, egalitarianism, populism and political theory of pluralism. Elite theory is the sociological or political science analysis of elite influence in society: elite theorists regard pluralism as a utopian ideal.
Someone expressing the opinion that SC2 players have superior skills/ability or that SC2 fans have superior taste would, first of all, only be claiming that such people are eligible to be the elite. The claim is that they're superior, and we also know that they're the smaller group, but do they actually have more power and influence? If yes, then they're the elite and the scene is affected by elitism. But Hexe admits to the opposite! The SC2 scene is in a weaker spot despite being superior in some ways. The bigger groups dominate. There's no elite using their advantages to leverage the scene for more than their share.
So anyway the exchange went "sc2 is worse in every way" and a guy says "no this is one way that sc2 is still better and it's the reason i watch it." The guy makes a fair point. I mean "sc2 is simply behind every other game" is a really extreme statement that's hard to defend anyway. SC2 is still the best for certain things that other games lack. But then to call Hexe's claim elitism? The concept of elitism doesn't even apply.
I'm still not sure how calling other games fads has anything to do with elitism. Calling a game a fad has nothing to do with having the attributes that set you apart from the masses and into the elite and it has nothing to do with using the attributes that placed you into the elite to gain advantages over everyone else. Whether those games are fads or not, they're more powerful, more influential, more accomplished than SC2 at this point. In fact when I think about it, the existence of fads is a sign that there is no elitism. Unless the elite control which fads are becoming popular, then the existence of fads is a demonstration of the elite's impotence. There are things out of their control that are able to massively influence the people.
Calling those games fads is just an opinion that maybe has some condescension or arrogance behind it. I feel like "elitism" is part of the word cloud that pops up in minds when thinking about these concepts and then it gets misapplied.
EPT
