• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:52
CEST 02:52
KST 09:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy8uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event17Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
Is there a way to see if 2 accounts=1 person? #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
ASL 20 HYPE VIDEO! ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking! BW AKA finder tool BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI The year 2050
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 601 users

Zest: The Last Titan - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
426 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 22 Next All
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
May 29 2016 04:48 GMT
#181
On May 29 2016 13:36 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 13:09 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 12:35 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 11:24 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 10:48 Alarak89 wrote:
BTW, below are the offline win rates for main Protoss players against Korean opponents atm:

Including BO1:
1. sos in games 63.67%, in matches 66.67%
2. rain in games 61.36%, in matches 66.78%
3. hero in games 60.82%, in matches 64.72%
4. zest in games 60.82%, in matches 63.57%
5. dear in games 60.54%, in matches 63.68%
6. classic in games 60.47%, in matches 62.50%
7. stats in games 59.60%, in matches 63.16%
8. parting in games 59.10%, in matches 62.54%

Only BO5+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 61.35%, in matches 71.05%
2. classic in games 60.32%, in matches 68.97%
3. hero in games 58.10%, in matches 68.09%
4. zest in games 59.38%, in matches 64.86%
5. dear in games 55.73%, in matches 63.33%
6. stats in games 52.56%, in matches 58.82%
7. rain in games 52.63%, in matches 54.76%
8. parting in games 52.96%, in matches 48.28%

Only BO3+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 63.74%, in matches 70.00%
2. rain in games 60.17%, in matches 67.50%
3. dear in games 60.96%, in matches 67.44%
4. hero in games 60.20%, in matches 66.86%
5. zest in games 60.10%, in matches 64.80%
6. classic in games 60.27%, in matches 63.36%
7. stats in games 58.12%, in matches 63.27%
8. parting in games 58.90%, in matches 63.22%

Sorry man, nobody cares about the statistics ... you heard it here, "Zest is Best" and it doesn't help to prove it wrong, he has the best body, the most passionate supporters, even if his winning rate decreases below 50%, he will still be Best. Because it is in fact his name, "Zest the Best".

By the way, it is nice to see that sOs still keeps good winning rates despite the deep hole, in which he was in the first half of 2016. Now it can only go up!!! His performance against Losira and TY in the Proleague finals was awesome!

And Zest has the best glasses ever, right? Learn more math/stats man, it can tell you a lot
You think sOs was in a deep hole in first half of 2016? Yes, he was in a hole at very beginning, but that's not a "deep" hole and only because there were not enough individual tournaments in Korea. Don't forget, he had an offline championship in 2016 already. If a champion was in a "deep hole", then what about other players? In a "super deep" hole?
Again, do not use your "imagination", always keep track of their win rate and that's the simplest and most effective way to "visualize" their current status. If the win rate for a player is growing constantly, then there is no way he is in a "deep hole" And because sOs's win rate didn't drop much even he was "in a hole", I knew he will be back eventually and there he is.
I would say remember their win rate and check it back every two months, you will save tons of time to evaluate their form This is not just for sOs, it is useful to any player.

Well, for me, sOs was in a deep hole all the time between the last IEM victory and his victory against Stats in the Proleague finals. Why? Because he has lost against every reasonably good player, even some mediocre players, he has beaten only a few poor players. So here his winrate did not mean anything for me. And he is not back yet, even when I very much hope so, but we will see it in GSL and SSL in the coming weeks ...

Unfortunately, there are few individual tournaments left in Korea.
Yeah, he lost many Bo1 in SPL, but only Bo5+ matches will tell a player is strong enough or not, at least Bo3.
We'll see though

I know, he would need some foreign individual tournaments to "catch the wind" again, as he did last year at MLG ... I am afraid, he does not have much chance to get to BlizzCon this year, let's hope ...
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
May 29 2016 07:15 GMT
#182
On May 29 2016 13:48 Diabolique wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 13:36 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:09 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 12:35 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 11:24 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 10:48 Alarak89 wrote:
BTW, below are the offline win rates for main Protoss players against Korean opponents atm:

Including BO1:
1. sos in games 63.67%, in matches 66.67%
2. rain in games 61.36%, in matches 66.78%
3. hero in games 60.82%, in matches 64.72%
4. zest in games 60.82%, in matches 63.57%
5. dear in games 60.54%, in matches 63.68%
6. classic in games 60.47%, in matches 62.50%
7. stats in games 59.60%, in matches 63.16%
8. parting in games 59.10%, in matches 62.54%

Only BO5+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 61.35%, in matches 71.05%
2. classic in games 60.32%, in matches 68.97%
3. hero in games 58.10%, in matches 68.09%
4. zest in games 59.38%, in matches 64.86%
5. dear in games 55.73%, in matches 63.33%
6. stats in games 52.56%, in matches 58.82%
7. rain in games 52.63%, in matches 54.76%
8. parting in games 52.96%, in matches 48.28%

Only BO3+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 63.74%, in matches 70.00%
2. rain in games 60.17%, in matches 67.50%
3. dear in games 60.96%, in matches 67.44%
4. hero in games 60.20%, in matches 66.86%
5. zest in games 60.10%, in matches 64.80%
6. classic in games 60.27%, in matches 63.36%
7. stats in games 58.12%, in matches 63.27%
8. parting in games 58.90%, in matches 63.22%

Sorry man, nobody cares about the statistics ... you heard it here, "Zest is Best" and it doesn't help to prove it wrong, he has the best body, the most passionate supporters, even if his winning rate decreases below 50%, he will still be Best. Because it is in fact his name, "Zest the Best".

By the way, it is nice to see that sOs still keeps good winning rates despite the deep hole, in which he was in the first half of 2016. Now it can only go up!!! His performance against Losira and TY in the Proleague finals was awesome!

And Zest has the best glasses ever, right? Learn more math/stats man, it can tell you a lot
You think sOs was in a deep hole in first half of 2016? Yes, he was in a hole at very beginning, but that's not a "deep" hole and only because there were not enough individual tournaments in Korea. Don't forget, he had an offline championship in 2016 already. If a champion was in a "deep hole", then what about other players? In a "super deep" hole?
Again, do not use your "imagination", always keep track of their win rate and that's the simplest and most effective way to "visualize" their current status. If the win rate for a player is growing constantly, then there is no way he is in a "deep hole" And because sOs's win rate didn't drop much even he was "in a hole", I knew he will be back eventually and there he is.
I would say remember their win rate and check it back every two months, you will save tons of time to evaluate their form This is not just for sOs, it is useful to any player.

Well, for me, sOs was in a deep hole all the time between the last IEM victory and his victory against Stats in the Proleague finals. Why? Because he has lost against every reasonably good player, even some mediocre players, he has beaten only a few poor players. So here his winrate did not mean anything for me. And he is not back yet, even when I very much hope so, but we will see it in GSL and SSL in the coming weeks ...

Unfortunately, there are few individual tournaments left in Korea.
Yeah, he lost many Bo1 in SPL, but only Bo5+ matches will tell a player is strong enough or not, at least Bo3.
We'll see though

I know, he would need some foreign individual tournaments to "catch the wind" again, as he did last year at MLG ... I am afraid, he does not have much chance to get to BlizzCon this year, let's hope ...

Well, I rather hope he can get a GSL/SSL champion instead of BlizzCon to complete "the Grand Slam"
Also don't forget, he might play with AlphaGo at the end of this year too, so it will be a really busy year for him if he won GSL/SSL S2
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
swissman777
Profile Joined September 2014
1106 Posts
May 29 2016 07:54 GMT
#183
On May 29 2016 05:26 Diabolique wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 05:17 Silvana wrote:
On May 29 2016 03:06 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 03:03 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 02:59 Diabolique wrote:
On May 28 2016 16:03 Silvana wrote:
Diabolique is not the next sackofwetmice, he is more like swag_bro: "Zest is in a slump!"

Grrrrr!!!! I do not now the sack of wer mice, I also do not know the swar bro!!! Bastards!!! Translate! Translate! Translate! Translate! Translate! Translate! Translate! Translate!

They were trolls that eventually got banned. SackOfWetMice would continuously claim that Zest is a no-skill Patchtoss (in the LR thread of a tournament that Zest ended up winning), while swag_bro would claim that a player is in a slump should he lose or that the same player is the best in the world should he win.

So what Silvana is implying is that you're not exactly a quality poster but at least your posts are funny.

Oooooh!!! Finally!!! Thank you!!!
It is so stupid when you are the only one, who cannot laugh about jokes about you ... because you are the only one, who does not understand them ...

On May 29 2016 01:52 bestviva wrote:
Guys! You all think too much. why is Zest a Titan? because he has a body just like the Greek's gods, it's not about winrate not about titles, it just about stuchiu's pure adoration about a SC2 progamer's body(sounds weird )

Case closed. That's it.


Anyway ,,, finally someone wrote the truth!!!


You must know that being compared with swag_bro is a compliment

Joking aside, I don't think your posts are bad quality (except some regarding certain controversial topic), but I do have trouble sometimes tellling whether you're being serious or poking fun. In any case, it's all good <3

No problem ... I am just still a newbie here on this site, so I do not know swag_bro or the sack of mice things, so I have no idea what it means ... if it is positive or negative or if it's an insult ... but never mind.

I am not that serious (except when I comment Noonius's love towards Maru), just here, when I saw the "Zest is best" hype train, just a few days after he had a series of losses, I had to tease it a bit ;-)


Wait, I see your # of posts made on TL and I wonder how you are a newbie? Even I remember swag_bro.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
May 29 2016 08:06 GMT
#184
It seems all of you are having trouble understanding stu's criteria
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
NinjaToss
Profile Blog Joined October 2015
Austria1383 Posts
May 29 2016 08:21 GMT
#185
On May 29 2016 17:06 Olli wrote:
It seems all of you are having trouble understanding stu's criteria


Those that understand are to lazy to reply
I'm sorry for all those that got their hearts broken by Zest | Zest, Bisu, soO, herO, MC, Maru, TY, Rogue, Trap, TaeJa", Favourite foreigners: ShoWTimE, Snute, Serral and Nerchio| KT BEST KT |
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
May 29 2016 08:29 GMT
#186
On May 29 2016 16:15 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 13:48 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:36 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:09 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 12:35 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 11:24 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 10:48 Alarak89 wrote:
BTW, below are the offline win rates for main Protoss players against Korean opponents atm:

Including BO1:
1. sos in games 63.67%, in matches 66.67%
2. rain in games 61.36%, in matches 66.78%
3. hero in games 60.82%, in matches 64.72%
4. zest in games 60.82%, in matches 63.57%
5. dear in games 60.54%, in matches 63.68%
6. classic in games 60.47%, in matches 62.50%
7. stats in games 59.60%, in matches 63.16%
8. parting in games 59.10%, in matches 62.54%

Only BO5+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 61.35%, in matches 71.05%
2. classic in games 60.32%, in matches 68.97%
3. hero in games 58.10%, in matches 68.09%
4. zest in games 59.38%, in matches 64.86%
5. dear in games 55.73%, in matches 63.33%
6. stats in games 52.56%, in matches 58.82%
7. rain in games 52.63%, in matches 54.76%
8. parting in games 52.96%, in matches 48.28%

Only BO3+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 63.74%, in matches 70.00%
2. rain in games 60.17%, in matches 67.50%
3. dear in games 60.96%, in matches 67.44%
4. hero in games 60.20%, in matches 66.86%
5. zest in games 60.10%, in matches 64.80%
6. classic in games 60.27%, in matches 63.36%
7. stats in games 58.12%, in matches 63.27%
8. parting in games 58.90%, in matches 63.22%

Sorry man, nobody cares about the statistics ... you heard it here, "Zest is Best" and it doesn't help to prove it wrong, he has the best body, the most passionate supporters, even if his winning rate decreases below 50%, he will still be Best. Because it is in fact his name, "Zest the Best".

By the way, it is nice to see that sOs still keeps good winning rates despite the deep hole, in which he was in the first half of 2016. Now it can only go up!!! His performance against Losira and TY in the Proleague finals was awesome!

And Zest has the best glasses ever, right? Learn more math/stats man, it can tell you a lot
You think sOs was in a deep hole in first half of 2016? Yes, he was in a hole at very beginning, but that's not a "deep" hole and only because there were not enough individual tournaments in Korea. Don't forget, he had an offline championship in 2016 already. If a champion was in a "deep hole", then what about other players? In a "super deep" hole?
Again, do not use your "imagination", always keep track of their win rate and that's the simplest and most effective way to "visualize" their current status. If the win rate for a player is growing constantly, then there is no way he is in a "deep hole" And because sOs's win rate didn't drop much even he was "in a hole", I knew he will be back eventually and there he is.
I would say remember their win rate and check it back every two months, you will save tons of time to evaluate their form This is not just for sOs, it is useful to any player.

Well, for me, sOs was in a deep hole all the time between the last IEM victory and his victory against Stats in the Proleague finals. Why? Because he has lost against every reasonably good player, even some mediocre players, he has beaten only a few poor players. So here his winrate did not mean anything for me. And he is not back yet, even when I very much hope so, but we will see it in GSL and SSL in the coming weeks ...

Unfortunately, there are few individual tournaments left in Korea.
Yeah, he lost many Bo1 in SPL, but only Bo5+ matches will tell a player is strong enough or not, at least Bo3.
We'll see though

I know, he would need some foreign individual tournaments to "catch the wind" again, as he did last year at MLG ... I am afraid, he does not have much chance to get to BlizzCon this year, let's hope ...

Well, I rather hope he can get a GSL/SSL champion instead of BlizzCon to complete "the Grand Slam"
Also don't forget, he might play with AlphaGo at the end of this year too, so it will be a really busy year for him if he won GSL/SSL S2

I'm pretty sure Google never said anything about that happening this year.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Diabolique
Profile Joined June 2015
Czech Republic5118 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 09:40:48
May 29 2016 09:40 GMT
#187
On May 29 2016 17:06 Olli wrote:
It seems all of you are having trouble understanding stu's criteria

No no no, we fully understand them ... he wants to do the TOP10, so he started with the number 10 :-)
Can't wait for numbers 9 and 8 ;-)
sOs | Rogue | Maru | Trap | Scarlett | Snute | MC
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
May 29 2016 10:00 GMT
#188
On May 29 2016 17:29 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 16:15 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:48 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:36 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:09 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 12:35 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 11:24 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 10:48 Alarak89 wrote:
BTW, below are the offline win rates for main Protoss players against Korean opponents atm:

Including BO1:
1. sos in games 63.67%, in matches 66.67%
2. rain in games 61.36%, in matches 66.78%
3. hero in games 60.82%, in matches 64.72%
4. zest in games 60.82%, in matches 63.57%
5. dear in games 60.54%, in matches 63.68%
6. classic in games 60.47%, in matches 62.50%
7. stats in games 59.60%, in matches 63.16%
8. parting in games 59.10%, in matches 62.54%

Only BO5+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 61.35%, in matches 71.05%
2. classic in games 60.32%, in matches 68.97%
3. hero in games 58.10%, in matches 68.09%
4. zest in games 59.38%, in matches 64.86%
5. dear in games 55.73%, in matches 63.33%
6. stats in games 52.56%, in matches 58.82%
7. rain in games 52.63%, in matches 54.76%
8. parting in games 52.96%, in matches 48.28%

Only BO3+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 63.74%, in matches 70.00%
2. rain in games 60.17%, in matches 67.50%
3. dear in games 60.96%, in matches 67.44%
4. hero in games 60.20%, in matches 66.86%
5. zest in games 60.10%, in matches 64.80%
6. classic in games 60.27%, in matches 63.36%
7. stats in games 58.12%, in matches 63.27%
8. parting in games 58.90%, in matches 63.22%

Sorry man, nobody cares about the statistics ... you heard it here, "Zest is Best" and it doesn't help to prove it wrong, he has the best body, the most passionate supporters, even if his winning rate decreases below 50%, he will still be Best. Because it is in fact his name, "Zest the Best".

By the way, it is nice to see that sOs still keeps good winning rates despite the deep hole, in which he was in the first half of 2016. Now it can only go up!!! His performance against Losira and TY in the Proleague finals was awesome!

And Zest has the best glasses ever, right? Learn more math/stats man, it can tell you a lot
You think sOs was in a deep hole in first half of 2016? Yes, he was in a hole at very beginning, but that's not a "deep" hole and only because there were not enough individual tournaments in Korea. Don't forget, he had an offline championship in 2016 already. If a champion was in a "deep hole", then what about other players? In a "super deep" hole?
Again, do not use your "imagination", always keep track of their win rate and that's the simplest and most effective way to "visualize" their current status. If the win rate for a player is growing constantly, then there is no way he is in a "deep hole" And because sOs's win rate didn't drop much even he was "in a hole", I knew he will be back eventually and there he is.
I would say remember their win rate and check it back every two months, you will save tons of time to evaluate their form This is not just for sOs, it is useful to any player.

Well, for me, sOs was in a deep hole all the time between the last IEM victory and his victory against Stats in the Proleague finals. Why? Because he has lost against every reasonably good player, even some mediocre players, he has beaten only a few poor players. So here his winrate did not mean anything for me. And he is not back yet, even when I very much hope so, but we will see it in GSL and SSL in the coming weeks ...

Unfortunately, there are few individual tournaments left in Korea.
Yeah, he lost many Bo1 in SPL, but only Bo5+ matches will tell a player is strong enough or not, at least Bo3.
We'll see though

I know, he would need some foreign individual tournaments to "catch the wind" again, as he did last year at MLG ... I am afraid, he does not have much chance to get to BlizzCon this year, let's hope ...

Well, I rather hope he can get a GSL/SSL champion instead of BlizzCon to complete "the Grand Slam"
Also don't forget, he might play with AlphaGo at the end of this year too, so it will be a really busy year for him if he won GSL/SSL S2

I'm pretty sure Google never said anything about that happening this year.


I thought it was meant to be BW too.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 10:05:39
May 29 2016 10:04 GMT
#189
Mvp had periods of losing matches as well. He won tournaments in the end though. There were people with better overall winrates I assume. Yet Mvp was the one winning GSLs.

Nobody currently active comes as close to that ability as Zest. Dominated 2014 harder than anyone has since Mvp. "Slumped" throughout 2015 (was still tied best Proleague player by the end and won an IEM WC). 2016 and he dominates the first GSL, dropping 3 maps total, beating down all 3 of the other semifinalists on his way. Still one of the best Proleague players. GSL seed, qualified for SSL challenger. Yes he's lost matches since, but the only reason why you're even pointing this out is because he didn't before. When you're dominating as hard as he was, it's almost impossible not to fall off a tiny bit.

Getting beaten by Stats, possibly the #1 in form player, and a couple dodgy losses here and there don't change the big picture. Zest dominated GSL, he's either the outright best player in the world or up there with a select 1-4, and he's in prime position to continue his success.

So what on earth makes some people here think that sOs, who hadn't qualified for either GSL or SSL, has never won a GSL or SSL, is as close to rivaling Mvp according to stu's criteria and going forward, is absolutely beyond my understanding.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
May 29 2016 10:07 GMT
#190
On May 29 2016 19:04 Olli wrote:
Mvp had periods of losing matches as well. He won tournaments in the end though. There were people with better overall winrates I assume. Yet Mvp was the one winning GSLs.

Nobody currently active comes as close to that ability as Zest. Dominated 2014 harder than anyone has since Mvp. "Slumped" throughout 2015 (was still tied best Proleague player by the end and won an IEM WC). 2016 and he dominates the first GSL, dropping 3 maps total, beating down all 3 of the other semifinalists on his way. Still one of the best Proleague players. GSL seed, qualified for SSL challenger. Yes he's lost matches since, but the only reason why you're even pointing this out is because he didn't before. When you're dominating as hard as he was, it's almost impossible not to fall off a tiny bit.

Getting beaten by Stats, possibly the #1 in form player, and a couple dodgy losses here and there don't change the big picture. Zest dominated GSL, he's either the outright best player in the world or up there with a select 1-4, and he's in prime position to continue his success.

So what on earth makes some people here think that sOs, who hadn't qualified for either GSL or SSL, has never won a GSL or SSL, is as close to rivaling Mvp according to stu's criteria and going forward, is absolutely beyond my understanding.


It's just Jin Air fans. Maru n sOs are the GOAT's in their eyes Like the GOAT list stuch did, lots were trying to say sOs should be #1 or 2 or some shit.
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
May 29 2016 10:11 GMT
#191
On May 29 2016 17:29 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 16:15 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:48 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:36 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:09 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 12:35 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 11:24 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 10:48 Alarak89 wrote:
BTW, below are the offline win rates for main Protoss players against Korean opponents atm:

Including BO1:
1. sos in games 63.67%, in matches 66.67%
2. rain in games 61.36%, in matches 66.78%
3. hero in games 60.82%, in matches 64.72%
4. zest in games 60.82%, in matches 63.57%
5. dear in games 60.54%, in matches 63.68%
6. classic in games 60.47%, in matches 62.50%
7. stats in games 59.60%, in matches 63.16%
8. parting in games 59.10%, in matches 62.54%

Only BO5+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 61.35%, in matches 71.05%
2. classic in games 60.32%, in matches 68.97%
3. hero in games 58.10%, in matches 68.09%
4. zest in games 59.38%, in matches 64.86%
5. dear in games 55.73%, in matches 63.33%
6. stats in games 52.56%, in matches 58.82%
7. rain in games 52.63%, in matches 54.76%
8. parting in games 52.96%, in matches 48.28%

Only BO3+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 63.74%, in matches 70.00%
2. rain in games 60.17%, in matches 67.50%
3. dear in games 60.96%, in matches 67.44%
4. hero in games 60.20%, in matches 66.86%
5. zest in games 60.10%, in matches 64.80%
6. classic in games 60.27%, in matches 63.36%
7. stats in games 58.12%, in matches 63.27%
8. parting in games 58.90%, in matches 63.22%

Sorry man, nobody cares about the statistics ... you heard it here, "Zest is Best" and it doesn't help to prove it wrong, he has the best body, the most passionate supporters, even if his winning rate decreases below 50%, he will still be Best. Because it is in fact his name, "Zest the Best".

By the way, it is nice to see that sOs still keeps good winning rates despite the deep hole, in which he was in the first half of 2016. Now it can only go up!!! His performance against Losira and TY in the Proleague finals was awesome!

And Zest has the best glasses ever, right? Learn more math/stats man, it can tell you a lot
You think sOs was in a deep hole in first half of 2016? Yes, he was in a hole at very beginning, but that's not a "deep" hole and only because there were not enough individual tournaments in Korea. Don't forget, he had an offline championship in 2016 already. If a champion was in a "deep hole", then what about other players? In a "super deep" hole?
Again, do not use your "imagination", always keep track of their win rate and that's the simplest and most effective way to "visualize" their current status. If the win rate for a player is growing constantly, then there is no way he is in a "deep hole" And because sOs's win rate didn't drop much even he was "in a hole", I knew he will be back eventually and there he is.
I would say remember their win rate and check it back every two months, you will save tons of time to evaluate their form This is not just for sOs, it is useful to any player.

Well, for me, sOs was in a deep hole all the time between the last IEM victory and his victory against Stats in the Proleague finals. Why? Because he has lost against every reasonably good player, even some mediocre players, he has beaten only a few poor players. So here his winrate did not mean anything for me. And he is not back yet, even when I very much hope so, but we will see it in GSL and SSL in the coming weeks ...

Unfortunately, there are few individual tournaments left in Korea.
Yeah, he lost many Bo1 in SPL, but only Bo5+ matches will tell a player is strong enough or not, at least Bo3.
We'll see though

I know, he would need some foreign individual tournaments to "catch the wind" again, as he did last year at MLG ... I am afraid, he does not have much chance to get to BlizzCon this year, let's hope ...

Well, I rather hope he can get a GSL/SSL champion instead of BlizzCon to complete "the Grand Slam"
Also don't forget, he might play with AlphaGo at the end of this year too, so it will be a really busy year for him if he won GSL/SSL S2

I'm pretty sure Google never said anything about that happening this year.

That's why I'm saying "might"
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
May 29 2016 10:12 GMT
#192
On May 29 2016 19:04 Olli wrote:
So what on earth makes some people here think that sOs, who hadn't qualified for either GSL or SSL, has never won a GSL or SSL, is as close to rivaling Mvp according to stu's criteria and going forward, is absolutely beyond my understanding.

it takes a special kind of person to be a dedicated sOs fan in the first place
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
May 29 2016 10:19 GMT
#193
This article is the perfect example where legitimate criticism gets drowned in fanboy shitposting Is sOs the GOAT? I don't think so. Is Zest the currently most dominating player. I would agree. Is he the last titan? Not really.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
May 29 2016 10:25 GMT
#194
The gist of the article is that, according to stu's criteria, Zest is the only one currently active who's looking like he might challenge Mvp one day. And I would agree to that, unless Maru starts winning GSLs real soon or Innovation decides to be good again.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
May 29 2016 10:29 GMT
#195
On May 29 2016 19:07 Phredxor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 19:04 Olli wrote:
Mvp had periods of losing matches as well. He won tournaments in the end though. There were people with better overall winrates I assume. Yet Mvp was the one winning GSLs.

Nobody currently active comes as close to that ability as Zest. Dominated 2014 harder than anyone has since Mvp. "Slumped" throughout 2015 (was still tied best Proleague player by the end and won an IEM WC). 2016 and he dominates the first GSL, dropping 3 maps total, beating down all 3 of the other semifinalists on his way. Still one of the best Proleague players. GSL seed, qualified for SSL challenger. Yes he's lost matches since, but the only reason why you're even pointing this out is because he didn't before. When you're dominating as hard as he was, it's almost impossible not to fall off a tiny bit.

Getting beaten by Stats, possibly the #1 in form player, and a couple dodgy losses here and there don't change the big picture. Zest dominated GSL, he's either the outright best player in the world or up there with a select 1-4, and he's in prime position to continue his success.

So what on earth makes some people here think that sOs, who hadn't qualified for either GSL or SSL, has never won a GSL or SSL, is as close to rivaling Mvp according to stu's criteria and going forward, is absolutely beyond my understanding.


It's just Jin Air fans. Maru n sOs are the GOAT's in their eyes Like the GOAT list stuch did, lots were trying to say sOs should be #1 or 2 or some shit.

It is not like sOs was winning some of the greatest tournaments of HOTS era...
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 10:30:50
May 29 2016 10:30 GMT
#196
On May 29 2016 19:11 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 17:29 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 16:15 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:48 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:36 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 13:09 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 12:35 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 11:24 Diabolique wrote:
On May 29 2016 10:48 Alarak89 wrote:
BTW, below are the offline win rates for main Protoss players against Korean opponents atm:

Including BO1:
1. sos in games 63.67%, in matches 66.67%
2. rain in games 61.36%, in matches 66.78%
3. hero in games 60.82%, in matches 64.72%
4. zest in games 60.82%, in matches 63.57%
5. dear in games 60.54%, in matches 63.68%
6. classic in games 60.47%, in matches 62.50%
7. stats in games 59.60%, in matches 63.16%
8. parting in games 59.10%, in matches 62.54%

Only BO5+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 61.35%, in matches 71.05%
2. classic in games 60.32%, in matches 68.97%
3. hero in games 58.10%, in matches 68.09%
4. zest in games 59.38%, in matches 64.86%
5. dear in games 55.73%, in matches 63.33%
6. stats in games 52.56%, in matches 58.82%
7. rain in games 52.63%, in matches 54.76%
8. parting in games 52.96%, in matches 48.28%

Only BO3+ (ranked by matches win rate):
1. sos in games 63.74%, in matches 70.00%
2. rain in games 60.17%, in matches 67.50%
3. dear in games 60.96%, in matches 67.44%
4. hero in games 60.20%, in matches 66.86%
5. zest in games 60.10%, in matches 64.80%
6. classic in games 60.27%, in matches 63.36%
7. stats in games 58.12%, in matches 63.27%
8. parting in games 58.90%, in matches 63.22%

Sorry man, nobody cares about the statistics ... you heard it here, "Zest is Best" and it doesn't help to prove it wrong, he has the best body, the most passionate supporters, even if his winning rate decreases below 50%, he will still be Best. Because it is in fact his name, "Zest the Best".

By the way, it is nice to see that sOs still keeps good winning rates despite the deep hole, in which he was in the first half of 2016. Now it can only go up!!! His performance against Losira and TY in the Proleague finals was awesome!

And Zest has the best glasses ever, right? Learn more math/stats man, it can tell you a lot
You think sOs was in a deep hole in first half of 2016? Yes, he was in a hole at very beginning, but that's not a "deep" hole and only because there were not enough individual tournaments in Korea. Don't forget, he had an offline championship in 2016 already. If a champion was in a "deep hole", then what about other players? In a "super deep" hole?
Again, do not use your "imagination", always keep track of their win rate and that's the simplest and most effective way to "visualize" their current status. If the win rate for a player is growing constantly, then there is no way he is in a "deep hole" And because sOs's win rate didn't drop much even he was "in a hole", I knew he will be back eventually and there he is.
I would say remember their win rate and check it back every two months, you will save tons of time to evaluate their form This is not just for sOs, it is useful to any player.

Well, for me, sOs was in a deep hole all the time between the last IEM victory and his victory against Stats in the Proleague finals. Why? Because he has lost against every reasonably good player, even some mediocre players, he has beaten only a few poor players. So here his winrate did not mean anything for me. And he is not back yet, even when I very much hope so, but we will see it in GSL and SSL in the coming weeks ...

Unfortunately, there are few individual tournaments left in Korea.
Yeah, he lost many Bo1 in SPL, but only Bo5+ matches will tell a player is strong enough or not, at least Bo3.
We'll see though

I know, he would need some foreign individual tournaments to "catch the wind" again, as he did last year at MLG ... I am afraid, he does not have much chance to get to BlizzCon this year, let's hope ...

Well, I rather hope he can get a GSL/SSL champion instead of BlizzCon to complete "the Grand Slam"
Also don't forget, he might play with AlphaGo at the end of this year too, so it will be a really busy year for him if he won GSL/SSL S2

I'm pretty sure Google never said anything about that happening this year.

That's why I'm saying "might"

I don't think there's any possibility of it happening this year. From scratch creating an AI capable of competing with a top level Korean pro in SC2? No way they can do that in less than 9 months.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
May 29 2016 10:31 GMT
#197
On May 29 2016 19:25 Olli wrote:
The gist of the article is that, according to stu's criteria, Zest is the only one currently active who's looking like he might challenge Mvp one day. And I would agree to that, unless Maru starts winning GSLs real soon or Innovation decides to be good again.


But that's a completely nonsensical conclusion, in the view of the Zest's previous slump. Zest himself shows that current form is not a good long-term indicator, yet his current form is used as a current indicator. Innovation is the perfect counterpoint: he has enough legacy that by simply getting good again, he's suddenly gonna be a big GOAT competitor. There are not too many such people left - if Stats starts dominating now for some reason, he needs years to be considered a Mvp challenger, but they do exist and unless they Life themselves away, the only upper hand Zest has is the current form.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
May 29 2016 10:33 GMT
#198
On May 29 2016 19:29 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 19:07 Phredxor wrote:
On May 29 2016 19:04 Olli wrote:
Mvp had periods of losing matches as well. He won tournaments in the end though. There were people with better overall winrates I assume. Yet Mvp was the one winning GSLs.

Nobody currently active comes as close to that ability as Zest. Dominated 2014 harder than anyone has since Mvp. "Slumped" throughout 2015 (was still tied best Proleague player by the end and won an IEM WC). 2016 and he dominates the first GSL, dropping 3 maps total, beating down all 3 of the other semifinalists on his way. Still one of the best Proleague players. GSL seed, qualified for SSL challenger. Yes he's lost matches since, but the only reason why you're even pointing this out is because he didn't before. When you're dominating as hard as he was, it's almost impossible not to fall off a tiny bit.

Getting beaten by Stats, possibly the #1 in form player, and a couple dodgy losses here and there don't change the big picture. Zest dominated GSL, he's either the outright best player in the world or up there with a select 1-4, and he's in prime position to continue his success.

So what on earth makes some people here think that sOs, who hadn't qualified for either GSL or SSL, has never won a GSL or SSL, is as close to rivaling Mvp according to stu's criteria and going forward, is absolutely beyond my understanding.


It's just Jin Air fans. Maru n sOs are the GOAT's in their eyes Like the GOAT list stuch did, lots were trying to say sOs should be #1 or 2 or some shit.

It is not like sOs was winning some of the greatest tournaments of HOTS era...


Hey I like sOs and think he's great. But people ranking him above Life or Mvp are just delusional.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
May 29 2016 10:38 GMT
#199
On May 29 2016 19:33 Phredxor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 19:29 deacon.frost wrote:
On May 29 2016 19:07 Phredxor wrote:
On May 29 2016 19:04 Olli wrote:
Mvp had periods of losing matches as well. He won tournaments in the end though. There were people with better overall winrates I assume. Yet Mvp was the one winning GSLs.

Nobody currently active comes as close to that ability as Zest. Dominated 2014 harder than anyone has since Mvp. "Slumped" throughout 2015 (was still tied best Proleague player by the end and won an IEM WC). 2016 and he dominates the first GSL, dropping 3 maps total, beating down all 3 of the other semifinalists on his way. Still one of the best Proleague players. GSL seed, qualified for SSL challenger. Yes he's lost matches since, but the only reason why you're even pointing this out is because he didn't before. When you're dominating as hard as he was, it's almost impossible not to fall off a tiny bit.

Getting beaten by Stats, possibly the #1 in form player, and a couple dodgy losses here and there don't change the big picture. Zest dominated GSL, he's either the outright best player in the world or up there with a select 1-4, and he's in prime position to continue his success.

So what on earth makes some people here think that sOs, who hadn't qualified for either GSL or SSL, has never won a GSL or SSL, is as close to rivaling Mvp according to stu's criteria and going forward, is absolutely beyond my understanding.


It's just Jin Air fans. Maru n sOs are the GOAT's in their eyes Like the GOAT list stuch did, lots were trying to say sOs should be #1 or 2 or some shit.

It is not like sOs was winning some of the greatest tournaments of HOTS era...


Hey I like sOs and think he's great. But people ranking him above Life or Mvp are just delusional.

IIRC the greatest discussion about sOs was his 7th place in the best plaer of HOTS era. There's no Mvp in HOTS.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 10:41:54
May 29 2016 10:40 GMT
#200
On May 29 2016 19:31 opisska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 19:25 Olli wrote:
The gist of the article is that, according to stu's criteria, Zest is the only one currently active who's looking like he might challenge Mvp one day. And I would agree to that, unless Maru starts winning GSLs real soon or Innovation decides to be good again.


But that's a completely nonsensical conclusion, in the view of the Zest's previous slump. Zest himself shows that current form is not a good long-term indicator, yet his current form is used as a current indicator. Innovation is the perfect counterpoint: he has enough legacy that by simply getting good again, he's suddenly gonna be a big GOAT competitor. There are not too many such people left - if Stats starts dominating now for some reason, he needs years to be considered a Mvp challenger, but they do exist and unless they Life themselves away, the only upper hand Zest has is the current form.


He also has the titles. Reminder, once again, because people have terrible memory: If Mvp has 4 GSLs and Life has 3, then Zest also has 3. Mvp's 4th was a Global Championship, Life's 3rd was Blizzard Cup. Zest's 3rd was a Global Championship.

Add to that his IEM WC, Kespa Cup. Add to that his Proleague achievements. Then add to that his current form.

Zest's "slump" included an IEM WC and the tied most Proleague wins. That's not exactly what Innovation is doing right now.

There's nobody whose outlook as nearly as good. Innovation has two GSLs and a WCS Season Finals, he's closest by these criteria. Maru has 2 titles and good form, he's looking closest to Zest. Innovation has 2 GSLs and a WCS Season Finals, but he sucks atm and is likely not making it into GSL again.

So who does come close?
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 22 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft620
Nina 165
Livibee 45
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 490
NaDa 123
ggaemo 99
Stormgate
UpATreeSC106
JuggernautJason80
Dota 2
monkeys_forever566
NeuroSwarm90
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
Foxcn712
Stewie2K472
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe91
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor143
Other Games
tarik_tv17853
gofns16208
summit1g6640
JimRising 447
C9.Mang0347
shahzam330
Trikslyr52
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1265
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 52
• davetesta32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4620
Other Games
• Scarra1025
Upcoming Events
Online Event
10h 8m
SC Evo League
11h 8m
Online Event
12h 8m
OSC
12h 8m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
14h 8m
CSO Contender
16h 8m
[BSL 2025] Weekly
17h 8m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 10h
SC Evo League
1d 11h
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 14h
BSL Team Wars
1d 18h
Team Dewalt vs Team Bonyth
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
2 days
RotterdaM Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-08-13
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.