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On May 28 2016 05:16 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 05:15 D_K_night wrote:On May 28 2016 05:02 BaronVonOwn wrote:On May 28 2016 03:36 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I really wish they would add a "standard skins only" option. The ability to customize colors on ladder was a really nice first step, I'd like to be able to standardize the games further more. yeah... I'm a little concerned that paid skins could be obnoxious and over-the-top to get people to buy them. I don't want every ladder game to look and sound like some arcade map or campaign mission. Hopefully there will be a graphics option to disable custom skins. That's what low graphics settings is for. That aside, well no, the entire point of skins and differentiating graphical looks is for other ppl to see them. What's the point of even releasing custom skins if they are not visible? So no. World of Warcraft players have also asked to disable everyone else's transmorghify options just because they personally found obnoxious that people wanted to customize their own look. Blizzard thankfully did not cave into that. The paid skins won't be any more obnoxious than the existing WoL collector's edition Thor, the HOTS ultralisk, the marines with bladed rifles, etc. They are just simple graphical enhancements that make the game look cooler and more unique. people can buy custom skins if they want to enhance their game experience. If I can avoid to see silly skins I'm all for it. Especially since some of them are confusing -winged lings not to name them.
+1.
i want a setting in the options menu forcing the display standard unit models only in my game client. then Blizzard can sell 5000 different skins for each unit and it has zero impact on me.
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For Separate MMR per race.
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Bring us the ladder revamp and the seperate MMR first.
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I`m not sure if I like a seperate MMR for random as well. It may be the case that the lower ladder regions get overcrowded with random players, as they have no risk in getting their mmr messed up. Probably its best if random will effect the MMR of the given race after the game.
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i want a setting in the options menu forcing the display standard unit models only in my game client. then Blizzard can sell 5000 different skins for each unit and it has zero impact on me.
yeah there should be an option to choose also the skins displayed for the opponent players because I want to choose how the game looks for me.
Just like with the colors that can be ste to green no matter which colour was chosen
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On May 28 2016 14:51 Legobiten wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 08:46 Tyrhanius wrote:On May 28 2016 07:47 avilo wrote:
I've been playing a lot of off-race Z (almost as strong as my main race tbh).
I played a game within the last two days on frost, ZvT, my opponent had a 30-50 army supply lead, and i won the game because i managed to get out 8 armor ultras and a-moved into 3 liberators + his 30-50 army supply lead.
Something is very, very wrong with 8 armor ultras. I mean it's been obvious - the unit is absurdly broken.
I shouldn't be able to a-move with a 30 army supply deficit, zero micro, and beat someone that was beating me the entire game simply because i got out a tier3 unit =/ As zerg eco gets larvas nerf + mutas ball no longer cost effective, if zerg had invested 600/700 to get infest pit/hive ultras + armor tech while T had invest nothing on tech if he only had bio +3 only liberators, it just normal T had a supply lead. Don't mean "he had outplayed you" like you're trying to suggest but more : T tried to all-in with high number of low tech units while he sacrified his tech but didn't managed to win so got crushed by superior tech. It's just basic game knowledge. Else zergs can just make 200/200 roachs and say they should beat any 150-170 supply army because they have 30-50 supply lead ! T just wants better early mid game than on HOTS with liberator/tankyvac and larvas nerf AND when they reach 3/3 bio become godelike ? Hots TvZ bio vs LBM was far better to play but "community" ask for macro change/mutas hard counter, so ultras +8 is just here to compensate those changes, else zerg can't beat terran. Exactly this! It's so absurd that Terran players whine about how their tier1 units can't beat tier3 units. Terran with upgraded Marines/Marauders/Medivacs is sooooooo strong and reks everything but Ultras. Every other race has to tech up but not terran. So unfair uh?
We've asked about lategame units to transition to since forever and all Blizzard has given us is a useless gimmick for the BC, the awful design of the cyclone, ravens that are super expensive paperweights, the tankivac gimmick (good for midgame but useless in the lategame) and the thor still being shit (altough they trying todo fix this now).
The only good thing for lategame that was added was the lib and thats why you ser libs un all games every game.
The ghost is kind of in limbo because altough the new snipe is strong is super easy to cancel it.
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On May 29 2016 00:08 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 14:51 Legobiten wrote:On May 28 2016 08:46 Tyrhanius wrote:On May 28 2016 07:47 avilo wrote:
I've been playing a lot of off-race Z (almost as strong as my main race tbh).
I played a game within the last two days on frost, ZvT, my opponent had a 30-50 army supply lead, and i won the game because i managed to get out 8 armor ultras and a-moved into 3 liberators + his 30-50 army supply lead.
Something is very, very wrong with 8 armor ultras. I mean it's been obvious - the unit is absurdly broken.
I shouldn't be able to a-move with a 30 army supply deficit, zero micro, and beat someone that was beating me the entire game simply because i got out a tier3 unit =/ As zerg eco gets larvas nerf + mutas ball no longer cost effective, if zerg had invested 600/700 to get infest pit/hive ultras + armor tech while T had invest nothing on tech if he only had bio +3 only liberators, it just normal T had a supply lead. Don't mean "he had outplayed you" like you're trying to suggest but more : T tried to all-in with high number of low tech units while he sacrified his tech but didn't managed to win so got crushed by superior tech. It's just basic game knowledge. Else zergs can just make 200/200 roachs and say they should beat any 150-170 supply army because they have 30-50 supply lead ! T just wants better early mid game than on HOTS with liberator/tankyvac and larvas nerf AND when they reach 3/3 bio become godelike ? Hots TvZ bio vs LBM was far better to play but "community" ask for macro change/mutas hard counter, so ultras +8 is just here to compensate those changes, else zerg can't beat terran. Exactly this! It's so absurd that Terran players whine about how their tier1 units can't beat tier3 units. Terran with upgraded Marines/Marauders/Medivacs is sooooooo strong and reks everything but Ultras. Every other race has to tech up but not terran. So unfair uh? We've asked about lategame units to transition to since forever and all Blizzard has given us is a useless gimmick for the BC, the awful design of the cyclone, ravens that are super expensive paperweights, the tankivac gimmick (good for midgame but useless in the lategame) and the thor still being shit (altough they trying todo fix this now). The only good thing for lategame that was added was the lib and thats why you ser libs un all games every game. The ghost is kind of in limbo because altough the new snipe is strong is super easy to cancel it.
Not sure if I would go as far as calling Ravens "paper weights" but they are kind of like Infestors, in this weird spot in balance where they are woefully underwhelming (at least compared to High Templars) but still relatively balanced, so the balance team is probably never going to buff them as long as people still build them.
They should just make Infestors stronger vs. air compositions, same with Raven, this game needs less air turtle deathball play and more ground battles, the meta is shifting back towards cancer mass air styles at times and it's terrible.
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On May 29 2016 02:13 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2016 00:08 Lexender wrote:On May 28 2016 14:51 Legobiten wrote:On May 28 2016 08:46 Tyrhanius wrote:On May 28 2016 07:47 avilo wrote:
I've been playing a lot of off-race Z (almost as strong as my main race tbh).
I played a game within the last two days on frost, ZvT, my opponent had a 30-50 army supply lead, and i won the game because i managed to get out 8 armor ultras and a-moved into 3 liberators + his 30-50 army supply lead.
Something is very, very wrong with 8 armor ultras. I mean it's been obvious - the unit is absurdly broken.
I shouldn't be able to a-move with a 30 army supply deficit, zero micro, and beat someone that was beating me the entire game simply because i got out a tier3 unit =/ As zerg eco gets larvas nerf + mutas ball no longer cost effective, if zerg had invested 600/700 to get infest pit/hive ultras + armor tech while T had invest nothing on tech if he only had bio +3 only liberators, it just normal T had a supply lead. Don't mean "he had outplayed you" like you're trying to suggest but more : T tried to all-in with high number of low tech units while he sacrified his tech but didn't managed to win so got crushed by superior tech. It's just basic game knowledge. Else zergs can just make 200/200 roachs and say they should beat any 150-170 supply army because they have 30-50 supply lead ! T just wants better early mid game than on HOTS with liberator/tankyvac and larvas nerf AND when they reach 3/3 bio become godelike ? Hots TvZ bio vs LBM was far better to play but "community" ask for macro change/mutas hard counter, so ultras +8 is just here to compensate those changes, else zerg can't beat terran. Exactly this! It's so absurd that Terran players whine about how their tier1 units can't beat tier3 units. Terran with upgraded Marines/Marauders/Medivacs is sooooooo strong and reks everything but Ultras. Every other race has to tech up but not terran. So unfair uh? We've asked about lategame units to transition to since forever and all Blizzard has given us is a useless gimmick for the BC, the awful design of the cyclone, ravens that are super expensive paperweights, the tankivac gimmick (good for midgame but useless in the lategame) and the thor still being shit (altough they trying todo fix this now). The only good thing for lategame that was added was the lib and thats why you ser libs un all games every game. The ghost is kind of in limbo because altough the new snipe is strong is super easy to cancel it. Not sure if I would go as far as calling Ravens "paper weights" but they are kind of like Infestors, in this weird spot in balance where they are woefully underwhelming (at least compared to High Templars) but still relatively balanced, so the balance team is probably never going to buff them as long as people still build them. They should just make Infestors stronger vs. air compositions, same with Raven, this game needs less air turtle deathball play and more ground battles, the meta is shifting back towards cancer mass air styles at times and it's terrible.
Infestors are used almost every zvt. ravens are used... never except maybe 1 in early game tvt. I don't think I would say they are in a similar spot.
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On May 29 2016 02:23 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2016 02:13 Beelzebub1 wrote:On May 29 2016 00:08 Lexender wrote:On May 28 2016 14:51 Legobiten wrote:On May 28 2016 08:46 Tyrhanius wrote:On May 28 2016 07:47 avilo wrote:
I've been playing a lot of off-race Z (almost as strong as my main race tbh).
I played a game within the last two days on frost, ZvT, my opponent had a 30-50 army supply lead, and i won the game because i managed to get out 8 armor ultras and a-moved into 3 liberators + his 30-50 army supply lead.
Something is very, very wrong with 8 armor ultras. I mean it's been obvious - the unit is absurdly broken.
I shouldn't be able to a-move with a 30 army supply deficit, zero micro, and beat someone that was beating me the entire game simply because i got out a tier3 unit =/ As zerg eco gets larvas nerf + mutas ball no longer cost effective, if zerg had invested 600/700 to get infest pit/hive ultras + armor tech while T had invest nothing on tech if he only had bio +3 only liberators, it just normal T had a supply lead. Don't mean "he had outplayed you" like you're trying to suggest but more : T tried to all-in with high number of low tech units while he sacrified his tech but didn't managed to win so got crushed by superior tech. It's just basic game knowledge. Else zergs can just make 200/200 roachs and say they should beat any 150-170 supply army because they have 30-50 supply lead ! T just wants better early mid game than on HOTS with liberator/tankyvac and larvas nerf AND when they reach 3/3 bio become godelike ? Hots TvZ bio vs LBM was far better to play but "community" ask for macro change/mutas hard counter, so ultras +8 is just here to compensate those changes, else zerg can't beat terran. Exactly this! It's so absurd that Terran players whine about how their tier1 units can't beat tier3 units. Terran with upgraded Marines/Marauders/Medivacs is sooooooo strong and reks everything but Ultras. Every other race has to tech up but not terran. So unfair uh? We've asked about lategame units to transition to since forever and all Blizzard has given us is a useless gimmick for the BC, the awful design of the cyclone, ravens that are super expensive paperweights, the tankivac gimmick (good for midgame but useless in the lategame) and the thor still being shit (altough they trying todo fix this now). The only good thing for lategame that was added was the lib and thats why you ser libs un all games every game. The ghost is kind of in limbo because altough the new snipe is strong is super easy to cancel it. Not sure if I would go as far as calling Ravens "paper weights" but they are kind of like Infestors, in this weird spot in balance where they are woefully underwhelming (at least compared to High Templars) but still relatively balanced, so the balance team is probably never going to buff them as long as people still build them. They should just make Infestors stronger vs. air compositions, same with Raven, this game needs less air turtle deathball play and more ground battles, the meta is shifting back towards cancer mass air styles at times and it's terrible. Infestors are used almost every zvt. ravens are used... never except maybe 1 in early game tvt. I don't think I would say they are in a similar spot.
Maybe in pro games, I don't know, even at super high levels of play Infestors are a, "I hope the Terran makes a mistake and get's caught so I can Bile and kill 50 supply in 5 seconds" but usually I just see Infestors dying hilariously lol
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On May 29 2016 02:32 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2016 02:23 Charoisaur wrote:On May 29 2016 02:13 Beelzebub1 wrote:On May 29 2016 00:08 Lexender wrote:On May 28 2016 14:51 Legobiten wrote:On May 28 2016 08:46 Tyrhanius wrote:On May 28 2016 07:47 avilo wrote:
I've been playing a lot of off-race Z (almost as strong as my main race tbh).
I played a game within the last two days on frost, ZvT, my opponent had a 30-50 army supply lead, and i won the game because i managed to get out 8 armor ultras and a-moved into 3 liberators + his 30-50 army supply lead.
Something is very, very wrong with 8 armor ultras. I mean it's been obvious - the unit is absurdly broken.
I shouldn't be able to a-move with a 30 army supply deficit, zero micro, and beat someone that was beating me the entire game simply because i got out a tier3 unit =/ As zerg eco gets larvas nerf + mutas ball no longer cost effective, if zerg had invested 600/700 to get infest pit/hive ultras + armor tech while T had invest nothing on tech if he only had bio +3 only liberators, it just normal T had a supply lead. Don't mean "he had outplayed you" like you're trying to suggest but more : T tried to all-in with high number of low tech units while he sacrified his tech but didn't managed to win so got crushed by superior tech. It's just basic game knowledge. Else zergs can just make 200/200 roachs and say they should beat any 150-170 supply army because they have 30-50 supply lead ! T just wants better early mid game than on HOTS with liberator/tankyvac and larvas nerf AND when they reach 3/3 bio become godelike ? Hots TvZ bio vs LBM was far better to play but "community" ask for macro change/mutas hard counter, so ultras +8 is just here to compensate those changes, else zerg can't beat terran. Exactly this! It's so absurd that Terran players whine about how their tier1 units can't beat tier3 units. Terran with upgraded Marines/Marauders/Medivacs is sooooooo strong and reks everything but Ultras. Every other race has to tech up but not terran. So unfair uh? We've asked about lategame units to transition to since forever and all Blizzard has given us is a useless gimmick for the BC, the awful design of the cyclone, ravens that are super expensive paperweights, the tankivac gimmick (good for midgame but useless in the lategame) and the thor still being shit (altough they trying todo fix this now). The only good thing for lategame that was added was the lib and thats why you ser libs un all games every game. The ghost is kind of in limbo because altough the new snipe is strong is super easy to cancel it. Not sure if I would go as far as calling Ravens "paper weights" but they are kind of like Infestors, in this weird spot in balance where they are woefully underwhelming (at least compared to High Templars) but still relatively balanced, so the balance team is probably never going to buff them as long as people still build them. They should just make Infestors stronger vs. air compositions, same with Raven, this game needs less air turtle deathball play and more ground battles, the meta is shifting back towards cancer mass air styles at times and it's terrible. Infestors are used almost every zvt. ravens are used... never except maybe 1 in early game tvt. I don't think I would say they are in a similar spot. Maybe in pro games, I don't know, even at super high levels of play Infestors are a, "I hope the Terran makes a mistake and get's caught so I can Bile and kill 50 supply in 5 seconds" but usually I just see Infestors dying hilariously lol
Infestors are a niche spell caster at best.
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On May 29 2016 02:35 Shakattak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2016 02:32 Beelzebub1 wrote:On May 29 2016 02:23 Charoisaur wrote:On May 29 2016 02:13 Beelzebub1 wrote:On May 29 2016 00:08 Lexender wrote:On May 28 2016 14:51 Legobiten wrote:On May 28 2016 08:46 Tyrhanius wrote:On May 28 2016 07:47 avilo wrote:
I've been playing a lot of off-race Z (almost as strong as my main race tbh).
I played a game within the last two days on frost, ZvT, my opponent had a 30-50 army supply lead, and i won the game because i managed to get out 8 armor ultras and a-moved into 3 liberators + his 30-50 army supply lead.
Something is very, very wrong with 8 armor ultras. I mean it's been obvious - the unit is absurdly broken.
I shouldn't be able to a-move with a 30 army supply deficit, zero micro, and beat someone that was beating me the entire game simply because i got out a tier3 unit =/ As zerg eco gets larvas nerf + mutas ball no longer cost effective, if zerg had invested 600/700 to get infest pit/hive ultras + armor tech while T had invest nothing on tech if he only had bio +3 only liberators, it just normal T had a supply lead. Don't mean "he had outplayed you" like you're trying to suggest but more : T tried to all-in with high number of low tech units while he sacrified his tech but didn't managed to win so got crushed by superior tech. It's just basic game knowledge. Else zergs can just make 200/200 roachs and say they should beat any 150-170 supply army because they have 30-50 supply lead ! T just wants better early mid game than on HOTS with liberator/tankyvac and larvas nerf AND when they reach 3/3 bio become godelike ? Hots TvZ bio vs LBM was far better to play but "community" ask for macro change/mutas hard counter, so ultras +8 is just here to compensate those changes, else zerg can't beat terran. Exactly this! It's so absurd that Terran players whine about how their tier1 units can't beat tier3 units. Terran with upgraded Marines/Marauders/Medivacs is sooooooo strong and reks everything but Ultras. Every other race has to tech up but not terran. So unfair uh? We've asked about lategame units to transition to since forever and all Blizzard has given us is a useless gimmick for the BC, the awful design of the cyclone, ravens that are super expensive paperweights, the tankivac gimmick (good for midgame but useless in the lategame) and the thor still being shit (altough they trying todo fix this now). The only good thing for lategame that was added was the lib and thats why you ser libs un all games every game. The ghost is kind of in limbo because altough the new snipe is strong is super easy to cancel it. Not sure if I would go as far as calling Ravens "paper weights" but they are kind of like Infestors, in this weird spot in balance where they are woefully underwhelming (at least compared to High Templars) but still relatively balanced, so the balance team is probably never going to buff them as long as people still build them. They should just make Infestors stronger vs. air compositions, same with Raven, this game needs less air turtle deathball play and more ground battles, the meta is shifting back towards cancer mass air styles at times and it's terrible. Infestors are used almost every zvt. ravens are used... never except maybe 1 in early game tvt. I don't think I would say they are in a similar spot. Maybe in pro games, I don't know, even at super high levels of play Infestors are a, "I hope the Terran makes a mistake and get's caught so I can Bile and kill 50 supply in 5 seconds" but usually I just see Infestors dying hilariously lol Infestors are a niche spell caster at best.
Even as a niche spell caster they're in a better spot than the raven which is only made in TvT and in super rare cases a single one in TvP.
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On May 28 2016 17:27 Nerchio wrote:
The most important thing for ladder revamp is REMOVING BARCODES.
Why? It's none of your business to know who you play against. That's first thing.
Second this is if you remove barcodes ppl can came with...
Fake nicknames like AaBbCcDd and just shuffle them, or whatever nickname.
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I like how they are keeping the balance as it is this time. Even this thread turned into another rant and bash.
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On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 11:48 Cyro wrote:and buffs gateway units, with a corresponding nerf to tech units to reduce Protoss' over-reliance on tech units, this isn't going to change. I've been pretty sad to see so many people pushing for the opposite (nerfed gateway units, buffed tech). With Zerg and Terran being ~36% each of the diamond-gm population and protoss being 23%, there will be comparitively little feedback coming from actual protoss players. I think there is a disproportionate amount of anti-protoss comments/bias because of that as well. OK so which gateway unit could get any buff ? - the chargelot already got a pretty strong charge that helped make charge based compositions mainstream even in PvZ. - the adept is very tanky and strong overall, the shade is very helpful and some would say the cooldown is too low in some circumstances, not much room for buffs here. - the only unit that could get a buff is then the stalker, but you run the risk of making blink timings too strong or to have some match-ups revolve entirely around mass stalkers. That could be cool since the unit is very microable but that could get boring quick too.
Easy:
1) buff Stalker anti air damage
2) Merge DT and HT tech
Et voila!
On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Overall I think there is not much room for gateway buffs and that anyway P is more than fine -if something has to happen to P in the next patch, that's probably some kind of nerf, a warp prism nerf being the most likely given the recent updates trend.
By the way, the fact that there is significantly less P players in the "higher" leagues -I trust you on the numbers- genuinely surprises me. I'm not a very skilled player but I didn't struggle at all to get master league while playing a very HotS like style and I don't feel the game became harder for P in any single way.
Honestly, the way you are always advocating Protoss nerfs and never complain, even when Protoss was massively UP in PvZ for like 6 months, I never would have guessed that you play Protoss.
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On May 29 2016 06:24 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On May 28 2016 11:48 Cyro wrote:and buffs gateway units, with a corresponding nerf to tech units to reduce Protoss' over-reliance on tech units, this isn't going to change. I've been pretty sad to see so many people pushing for the opposite (nerfed gateway units, buffed tech). With Zerg and Terran being ~36% each of the diamond-gm population and protoss being 23%, there will be comparitively little feedback coming from actual protoss players. I think there is a disproportionate amount of anti-protoss comments/bias because of that as well. OK so which gateway unit could get any buff ? - the chargelot already got a pretty strong charge that helped make charge based compositions mainstream even in PvZ. - the adept is very tanky and strong overall, the shade is very helpful and some would say the cooldown is too low in some circumstances, not much room for buffs here. - the only unit that could get a buff is then the stalker, but you run the risk of making blink timings too strong or to have some match-ups revolve entirely around mass stalkers. That could be cool since the unit is very microable but that could get boring quick too. Easy: 1) buff Stalker anti air damage 2) Merge DT and HT tech Et voila! Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Overall I think there is not much room for gateway buffs and that anyway P is more than fine -if something has to happen to P in the next patch, that's probably some kind of nerf, a warp prism nerf being the most likely given the recent updates trend.
By the way, the fact that there is significantly less P players in the "higher" leagues -I trust you on the numbers- genuinely surprises me. I'm not a very skilled player but I didn't struggle at all to get master league while playing a very HotS like style and I don't feel the game became harder for P in any single way.
Honestly, the way you are always advocating Protoss nerfs and never complain, even when Protoss was massively UP in PvZ for like 6 months, I never would have guessed that you play Protoss.
1) That is actually a pretty decent idea, I've shared this sentiment for a long time, Stalkers aren't that great, but they should be, they are a high skill cap unit so I've never understood why they do such pitiful damage, Stalkers vs. mid game bio armies is hilariously 1 sided, and honestly Stalkers vs. Mutalisks even can be pretty bad.
2) This is the direct opposite of your first idea, this is terrible and just OP.
Protoss was only UP because that's the way this game works with a new expansion, Protoss got the most radical changes and Zerg just got straight buffs pretty much so of course there was lots of growing pains, he probably never complains because he looks at the game as a whole and his name isn't...ya know...Cheddartoss rofl
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On May 29 2016 07:43 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2016 06:24 CheddarToss wrote:On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On May 28 2016 11:48 Cyro wrote:and buffs gateway units, with a corresponding nerf to tech units to reduce Protoss' over-reliance on tech units, this isn't going to change. I've been pretty sad to see so many people pushing for the opposite (nerfed gateway units, buffed tech). With Zerg and Terran being ~36% each of the diamond-gm population and protoss being 23%, there will be comparitively little feedback coming from actual protoss players. I think there is a disproportionate amount of anti-protoss comments/bias because of that as well. OK so which gateway unit could get any buff ? - the chargelot already got a pretty strong charge that helped make charge based compositions mainstream even in PvZ. - the adept is very tanky and strong overall, the shade is very helpful and some would say the cooldown is too low in some circumstances, not much room for buffs here. - the only unit that could get a buff is then the stalker, but you run the risk of making blink timings too strong or to have some match-ups revolve entirely around mass stalkers. That could be cool since the unit is very microable but that could get boring quick too. Easy: 1) buff Stalker anti air damage 2) Merge DT and HT tech Et voila! On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Overall I think there is not much room for gateway buffs and that anyway P is more than fine -if something has to happen to P in the next patch, that's probably some kind of nerf, a warp prism nerf being the most likely given the recent updates trend.
By the way, the fact that there is significantly less P players in the "higher" leagues -I trust you on the numbers- genuinely surprises me. I'm not a very skilled player but I didn't struggle at all to get master league while playing a very HotS like style and I don't feel the game became harder for P in any single way.
Honestly, the way you are always advocating Protoss nerfs and never complain, even when Protoss was massively UP in PvZ for like 6 months, I never would have guessed that you play Protoss. 1) That is actually a pretty decent idea, I've shared this sentiment for a long time, Stalkers aren't that great, but they should be, they are a high skill cap unit so I've never understood why they do such pitiful damage, Stalkers vs. mid game bio armies is hilariously 1 sided, and honestly Stalkers vs. Mutalisks even can be pretty bad. 2) This is the direct opposite of your first idea, this is terrible and just OP. Protoss was only UP because that's the way this game works with a new expansion, Protoss got the most radical changes and Zerg just got straight buffs pretty much so of course there was lots of growing pains, he probably never complains because he looks at the game as a whole and his name isn't...ya know...Cheddartoss rofl
Please elaborate on DT/HT tech being OP if merged. The way I see it this would allow for more flexibility in the gateway tech path. The way it is now, DTs are pretty much a dead end and HT tech has no harassment potential. Merging them to one tech path again (a single building unlocked both units in BW) seems natural to me.
As for Stalkers they need to do pitiful damage because of Blink. If Stalkers had decent DPS they would snowball like crazy. I don't think Blink Stalkers alone should be able to defeat MMM regardless of how godly the micro is on the Protoss player's part. But I also don't think that Mutas or Phoenix should be anywhere good vs Stalkers. And Mutas are currently too good vs them.
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Well...
The Cyclone could still need some love.
In the current state there is no way a terran is going to "mass cyclones" that they keep being afraid of.
A 4 supply unit with 120 health.
Compared to Adepts that are being massed every PvT, 150 health and 2 supply.
I just dont get the 4 supply... The unit is a piece of rusty crap 
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On May 29 2016 07:43 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2016 06:24 CheddarToss wrote:On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On May 28 2016 11:48 Cyro wrote:and buffs gateway units, with a corresponding nerf to tech units to reduce Protoss' over-reliance on tech units, this isn't going to change. I've been pretty sad to see so many people pushing for the opposite (nerfed gateway units, buffed tech). With Zerg and Terran being ~36% each of the diamond-gm population and protoss being 23%, there will be comparitively little feedback coming from actual protoss players. I think there is a disproportionate amount of anti-protoss comments/bias because of that as well. OK so which gateway unit could get any buff ? - the chargelot already got a pretty strong charge that helped make charge based compositions mainstream even in PvZ. - the adept is very tanky and strong overall, the shade is very helpful and some would say the cooldown is too low in some circumstances, not much room for buffs here. - the only unit that could get a buff is then the stalker, but you run the risk of making blink timings too strong or to have some match-ups revolve entirely around mass stalkers. That could be cool since the unit is very microable but that could get boring quick too. Easy: 1) buff Stalker anti air damage 2) Merge DT and HT tech Et voila! On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Overall I think there is not much room for gateway buffs and that anyway P is more than fine -if something has to happen to P in the next patch, that's probably some kind of nerf, a warp prism nerf being the most likely given the recent updates trend.
By the way, the fact that there is significantly less P players in the "higher" leagues -I trust you on the numbers- genuinely surprises me. I'm not a very skilled player but I didn't struggle at all to get master league while playing a very HotS like style and I don't feel the game became harder for P in any single way.
Honestly, the way you are always advocating Protoss nerfs and never complain, even when Protoss was massively UP in PvZ for like 6 months, I never would have guessed that you play Protoss. 1) That is actually a pretty decent idea, I've shared this sentiment for a long time, Stalkers aren't that great, but they should be, they are a high skill cap unit so I've never understood why they do such pitiful damage , Stalkers vs. mid game bio armies is hilariously 1 sided, and honestly Stalkers vs. Mutalisks even can be pretty bad. 2) This is the direct opposite of your first idea, this is terrible and just OP. Protoss was only UP because that's the way this game works with a new expansion, Protoss got the most radical changes and Zerg just got straight buffs pretty much so of course there was lots of growing pains, he probably never complains because he looks at the game as a whole and his name isn't...ya know...Cheddartoss rofl
Well.. Most protoss players are doing just fine on Stalker/Adept/Sentires vs Bio. The best korean Protosses (Zest) relies so heavy on just gateway units with a few support Immortals/Warp Prisms.
The idea that Gateway units dont fight well vs bio is HoTS-thoughts, in LoTV they do just fine.
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On May 29 2016 06:24 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On May 28 2016 11:48 Cyro wrote:and buffs gateway units, with a corresponding nerf to tech units to reduce Protoss' over-reliance on tech units, this isn't going to change. I've been pretty sad to see so many people pushing for the opposite (nerfed gateway units, buffed tech). With Zerg and Terran being ~36% each of the diamond-gm population and protoss being 23%, there will be comparitively little feedback coming from actual protoss players. I think there is a disproportionate amount of anti-protoss comments/bias because of that as well. OK so which gateway unit could get any buff ? - the chargelot already got a pretty strong charge that helped make charge based compositions mainstream even in PvZ. - the adept is very tanky and strong overall, the shade is very helpful and some would say the cooldown is too low in some circumstances, not much room for buffs here. - the only unit that could get a buff is then the stalker, but you run the risk of making blink timings too strong or to have some match-ups revolve entirely around mass stalkers. That could be cool since the unit is very microable but that could get boring quick too. Easy: 1) buff Stalker anti air damage 2) Merge DT and HT tech Et voila! Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Overall I think there is not much room for gateway buffs and that anyway P is more than fine -if something has to happen to P in the next patch, that's probably some kind of nerf, a warp prism nerf being the most likely given the recent updates trend.
By the way, the fact that there is significantly less P players in the "higher" leagues -I trust you on the numbers- genuinely surprises me. I'm not a very skilled player but I didn't struggle at all to get master league while playing a very HotS like style and I don't feel the game became harder for P in any single way.
Honestly, the way you are always advocating Protoss nerfs and never complain, even when Protoss was massively UP in PvZ for like 6 months, I never would have guessed that you play Protoss.
Protoss hasn't been UP for months in LOTV. For lower level players like yourself, it might seem that way, but at the highest levels of play Protoss is considered the strongest. Learn to play instead of balance whining.
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On May 29 2016 06:24 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:On May 28 2016 11:48 Cyro wrote:and buffs gateway units, with a corresponding nerf to tech units to reduce Protoss' over-reliance on tech units, this isn't going to change. I've been pretty sad to see so many people pushing for the opposite (nerfed gateway units, buffed tech). With Zerg and Terran being ~36% each of the diamond-gm population and protoss being 23%, there will be comparitively little feedback coming from actual protoss players. I think there is a disproportionate amount of anti-protoss comments/bias because of that as well. OK so which gateway unit could get any buff ? - the chargelot already got a pretty strong charge that helped make charge based compositions mainstream even in PvZ. - the adept is very tanky and strong overall, the shade is very helpful and some would say the cooldown is too low in some circumstances, not much room for buffs here. - the only unit that could get a buff is then the stalker, but you run the risk of making blink timings too strong or to have some match-ups revolve entirely around mass stalkers. That could be cool since the unit is very microable but that could get boring quick too. Easy: 1) buff Stalker anti air damage 2) Merge DT and HT tech Et voila! Show nested quote +On May 28 2016 12:07 [PkF] Wire wrote:Overall I think there is not much room for gateway buffs and that anyway P is more than fine -if something has to happen to P in the next patch, that's probably some kind of nerf, a warp prism nerf being the most likely given the recent updates trend.
By the way, the fact that there is significantly less P players in the "higher" leagues -I trust you on the numbers- genuinely surprises me. I'm not a very skilled player but I didn't struggle at all to get master league while playing a very HotS like style and I don't feel the game became harder for P in any single way.
Honestly, the way you are always advocating Protoss nerfs and never complain, even when Protoss was massively UP in PvZ for like 6 months, I never would have guessed that you play Protoss.
1) buffing stalker anti air damage makes sense. I made a case for it when the infamous photon +bio buff was suggested.
2) merge DT and HT tech is far too versatile.
3) "I never would have guessed you play Protoss" -> overall state of the game is more important than my winrate.
And anyway, what's the pleasure of winning if you know you've an advantage ? You never see me complaining about the state of P because there has been nothing to complain about for ages. I can't even remember the last time P was in a really bad spot balance wise. I seriously think it was in WoL.
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^ [PkF]Wire you the man homie
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EPT
