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On May 07 2016 06:39 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2016 06:28 ihatevideogames wrote:
Oh boy. I knew it, they're not really gonna try to fix to give a proper ground vs air unit, they're gonna try as hard as they can to keep their gimmicky cyclone in the game.
Just remove the damn lock on and buff range and stats, is it so hard? Why can't terrans we have a decent, non-gimmicky anti air unit? You already have decent anti-air units. Marines, widow mines and vikings. Thor is just a bonus. How many options does protoss have vs mutas and how many of them are mobile? Only stalkers, which actually lose to mutas, and phoenixes. Archons are good if mobility isn't a requirement and if zerg doesn't use vipers to mess up with their attack.
And how many protoss units are completely, 100% worthless? Maaaaaaaybe the Carrier? Even Carriers are decent in large numbers in the lategame. As it stands right now, at least 3 terran units are worthless. With this new change to the cyclone, instead of being an interesting unit to cover for mech lack of anti-air, it will become a part of alot of early game cheese/all in strats. Quote me on it.
Also I meant mech anti-air unit. Unless you mean using marines vs tempests, which ain't smart cause you know, tempests have 15 range and storms underneath them. Thors could maaaaybe be useful vs Brood Lords, but Brood Lords outrange them, outkite them, and have ultras underneath, so there goes that.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
On May 07 2016 10:24 Skyro wrote:
I've just trying to imagine how ridiculous mass colossus will look with faster attack speed *PEW PEW PEW*
That said I think one of the holes Protoss' army is AoE +light damage, so the above poster's idea of +light damage would be at least make the unit more strategically interesting while also discouraging mass colossus strategies, especially since it comes from the same production building as the primary anti-armored unit.
Yeah, that's fair enough.
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Libe hard counters muta and are in a decent micro relation with corrupters. Better nerf them vs Corru. #Logic.
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On May 07 2016 06:28 ihatevideogames wrote:
Oh boy. I knew it, they're not really gonna try to fix to give a proper ground vs air unit, they're gonna try as hard as they can to keep their gimmicky cyclone in the game.
Just remove the damn lock on and buff range and stats, is it so hard? Why can't terrans we have a decent, non-gimmicky anti air unit?
There are many units I'd love to see them removed. But the change you stated would just make the Cyclone another boring unit. I highly doubt that blizz will do it.
Better make the goliath back, but then it contradicts a little with the thor...
Still would be glad to see them. 
And please, for the sake of this game's future, just remove that retarded swarmhost and colossus, thank you. Don't be stubborn blizz.
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As a terran player, I can understand why liberators should be nerfed since it is so good on all aspects (imo it is the needed op unit for terran though).
However, I can never get the idea "Thors get single-armored AA" for what DK called "diversity"... For single-armored AA we terran already have Vikings who can do a better job than the new Thors since Vikings are more mobile and cheaper. So based on DK's "diversity" logic why not just delete Thors' AA? Thors are already mascot than viable unit for terran on most scenarios.
BTW, I agree that colossus nerf is one of the best improvements from hots, maybe it should get some love since it almost never appear in tournaments after lotv, but a simple dps buff is really not a good idea imo. Also, a buff for the reason that the unit doesn't appear much is really unreasonable in consideration of the fact that each race has some of such units (carriers, BCs, Thors, SHs, etc.).
And cyclone is just a completely-failure unit, it does make some sense in some early defense scenario of TvP and TvT, but that's all. Without cyclone both two matchups would not get affected much. What cyclone needs is a completely redesign or just replace it with a new unit. The idea of cyclone fails.
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The very design of the cyclone will always make it switch bewteen being OP and being fucking terrible. That's the way it works.
Increasing the supply is so retarded i can't even imagine how they had this idea. So what, a unit that costs less than 150/150 is gonna be 4 pop? Cyclone same supply as fucking tempest?
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Should just create 2 formats, standard and wild, and relegate units like colossus and swarm host to the wild format. Blizzard's A team clearly know what they are doing better.
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I keep saying this: They totally forgot their idea in HOTS to remove units. Now they really need to. There's a whole bunch of units that are totally unused because something else overlaps them, and trying to make them all viable is extremely difficult.
Another way I could put this is taht the new units are just wayyyy too overlappy to existing things:
Collosus -> Disruptors
Liberators -> Siege Tanks, Banshees, Widow Mines, Vikings, Thors
Imo worst design: not needed, too strong at too many things. Very little opportunity cost. Spammable AOE, Air unit with very high speed.
Lrukers now do what Swarm Host used to do, just worse.
Imo, Zerg was best designed this expansion. Though I really wish Vipers did not get an AOE debuff. I really like that it destroys air compositions.
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One thing I applaud the Liberator and its range upgrade for though is that it requires Terran to go to T3 now instead of staying T2 all game. (And including ghosts)
By nerfing Marauder into 2 shots vs armor upgrades, it reduces slightly the scaling of MMM into the late game, thus requiring Libs to take out Ultralisks and everything else on the ground.
In that sense, Liberators are a good design for that. And LOTV is still rather interesting to watch and play.
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I would hate to see a buff to the Colossus. Nerfing it turned out, in my opinion, to be one of the most refreshing things that came with LotV. Please don't go back to that boring, A-moving turd of a unit.
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no collusi!
also remove swarm hosts and give z a different unit.... the flying locusts are just uncool man. give them a drop unit/ or secondary revelation/obs unit....no need to complicate things
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Colossus improvement
We want to give back some of the Colossi strength. Goal here isn’t to make Colossi be used in every single game, but we want to have them see play a bit more frequently.
No reasons given, just an arbitrary "we want"
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Immortal, looking at its name, i would like to see it as the tanky unit that it is, but to reduce its impact let it make less damage. Like that micro can be rewarded, when other units are targeted first.
Other than the colossus change (rather slightly reduce overall damage of Disruptor), I like the rest.
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Cyclone supply increase to what... 4? It's already the most useless 3 supply unit ever created.... As if massing cyclones would be a good strategy in some way... The state of the cyclone is so confusing...
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Glad they are nerfing the immortals. Wonder how much they will nerf it though.
And they really should remove swarm host. I really can't understand what's the point of that unit in the game other than it being a bit cool....
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On May 07 2016 02:23 Charoisaur wrote:The collossus nerf was imo the only improvement from HotS. Now they are even backpedaling on that 
I agree with this.
I'd like it if they were looking at unit roles and synergy with other units rather then just at individual units and shoehorning them in the game.
And as always, remove the Tankvac and buff the dmg
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Hmm I get what they are trying to do with the cyclone. But I think they should switch the techlab requirement for armory requirement so you can reactor them (in addition to the cost decrease)
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But why nerf only immortal? Lurkers are already insanely good in large numbers. How do you beat that with nerfed immortal? No air unit suggestions please.
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I didn't really have a problem with Colossi in HotS, although I agree that some matches would often be decided by Colossus number alone. So I wasn't a big fan of nerfing them in LotV, but I think it turned out reasonably... However, now we have mass Immortal instead of mass Colossus (at least against Zerg). If they heavily nerf the Immortal, too, we will be either back to mass Blink Stalker, or Protosses being very weak against Zerg.
Also, I don't feel a Colossus buff is necessary now. They are a bit underused, yes, but I have a feeling they are much more useful than they are actually being used right now. As if players upon hearing the damage nerf in LotV had resigned to not ever making them because they are nerfed so they must be bad units... I think we would see Colossi used more frequently sooner or later, but if they buff them and nerf Immortals at the same time, I'm pretty sure mass Colossus will return to PvZ, and possibly to other matchups as well.
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Italy12248 Posts
For the love of everything that's nerdy and awesome in the universe please don't make me build fucking Colossi again, not right after i just started playing again, and having fun because that unit is gone. Please.
Not sure how i feel about the Immortal nerf. On the one hand, it does outshine everything else Protoss has in PvZ...on the other, the matchup seems just fine right now balance wise, so i don't know why zergs (Kespa zergs specifically) are so up in arms about Immortals.
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EPT
