On April 26 2016 04:22 Caihead wrote: The problem is regardless of how much time effort you spend developing the scenario and rationalizing the problem, it just comes down to this: a) greed b) selfishness c) fucking money
all solutions proposed by people in this thread: a) give progamers more money because they are greedy and would matchfix instead b) kespa and blizzard shouldn't be selfish (assuming they are), instead they should indulge the progamer's selfishness instead c) fucking money
Nothing about promoting fair play, nothing about having healthy attitudes or a sense of community, nothing about the integrity of the game; just all corporate and social cynicism and how criminality is inevitable.
I registered here just to post this.
Your points may or may not play a role. There can be much stronger motivators than just money and greed. Your view is just too one sided. You have to keep in mind that those gamers are still teens. Teens are stupid and make mistakes more often than we care to admit. Its important to provide them with more support and education than adults would require.
They may have just believed the dudes who said "every pro gamer does it", "its not so bad" or "noone will find out".
Those dudes who bribe the gamers on the other hand are the ones who know how to trick them. They are real adults. They probably did this many times. They are the ones who know what they are doing and what the consequences can be. And they sure as hell know exactly what lies to use in order to convince the kids.
In any case, some decent enlightenment (e.g. posters in their teamhouese, visiting seminars, or simple talks with their trainer) would have made them understand the matter and the consequences, and most likely prevented this from happening. If those two had an "Marchfixing will destroy your e-Sports carreer with 18 months jail and lifelong ban" on a poster in their team houses living room, they most likely would not have believed their lies and have not accepted such an offer.
As long as they are so joung, there needs to be someone acting as a parent and keeping watch. The adults in their surrounding need to be aware of the possible problems and be educated about the matters themselfes. Its not s surprise that this happened, when so much money is involved.
If they spend all night outside, take drugs, develop eating disorders, gamble, get into fights, etc. then someone must be there to notice and who knows what actions to take. The second goal after enlightening them, is to make sure those jung people do not get into situations where they are desperate and may accept such offers.
Good friends, a healthy social environment, education, watchful and supportive adults is what prevents such things - not better payment or unfairly severe punishment. Those gamers are still verry joung and are put in a highly competitive scene with lots of money involved. If left mostly alone, its not surprising that they are prone to develop disorders or get into money problems.
The team house and trainers should be the ones making sure they are adequately protected. In fact i would go so far as to assign them an authority person, who solely acts like a parent and is responsible for their behaviour and health.
Should I edit life's liquepedia page to say he's banned and is no longer part of the Afreeca Freecs. There was this guys who is trying to change article saying Life since joining was found out to be a matchfixing wanka.
On May 02 2016 22:16 zhadoom wrote:Good friends, a healthy social environment, education, watchful and supportive adults is what prevents such things - not better payment or unfairly severe punishment. Those gamers are still verry joung and are put in a highly competitive scene with lots of money involved. If left mostly alone, its not surprising that they are prone to develop disorders or get into money problems.
I agree with this strongly. Regardless of what you think of the individual matchfixers that fact that they keep popping up proves that the problem is systemic. It's not just a few bad apples and we have to consider the possibility that the current system is just psychologically unhealthy. Maybe spending 10 hours a day training in your teenage years, with few connections outside the game, is just not helping them become responsible, well-rounded adults.
The team house and trainers should be the ones making sure they are adequately protected. In fact i would go so far as to assign them an authority person, who solely acts like a parent and is responsible for their behaviour and health
But there is already such a person. It's the parents themselves. Parents should stay involved as far as possible. You can't just replace them with a random person, who probably has competing priorities and less emotional attachment, and expect the same results.
On May 02 2016 22:16 zhadoom wrote:Good friends, a healthy social environment, education, watchful and supportive adults is what prevents such things - not better payment or unfairly severe punishment. Those gamers are still verry joung and are put in a highly competitive scene with lots of money involved. If left mostly alone, its not surprising that they are prone to develop disorders or get into money problems.
I agree with this strongly. Regardless of what you think of the individual matchfixers that fact that they keep popping up proves that the problem is systemic. It's not just a few bad apples and we have to consider the possibility that the current system is just psychologically unhealthy. Maybe spending 10 hours a day training in your teenage years, with few connections outside the game, is just not helping them become responsible, well-rounded adults.
The team house and trainers should be the ones making sure they are adequately protected. In fact i would go so far as to assign them an authority person, who solely acts like a parent and is responsible for their behaviour and health
But there is already such a person. It's the parents themselves. Parents should stay involved as far as possible. You can't just replace them with a random person, who probably has competing priorities and less emotional attachment, and expect the same results.
On May 02 2016 22:16 zhadoom wrote:The team house and trainers should be the ones making sure they are adequately protected. In fact i would go so far as to assign them an authority person, who solely acts like a parent and is responsible for their behaviour and health
But there is already such a person. It's the parents themselves. Parents should stay involved as far as possible. You can't just replace them with a random person, who probably has competing priorities and less emotional attachment, and expect the same results.
Yes, but the parents are not there to notice behavior changes. The players live in the team house most of the time and they travel to other countries for tournaments.
They need an on site counselor who can observe and support them directly. Basically someone who has pedagogical education similar to a regular teacher and knowledge in drugs, behavioural disorders, etc. Someone like this often can help better than even the parents.
Yes, but the parents are not there to notice behavior changes. The players live in the team house most of the time and they travel to other countries for tournaments.
And that's a problem in itself. I understand that some baduk dojangs or European football academies are set up in a similar way, but these work much more like educational institutions than professional sporting teams.
They need an on site counselor who can observe and support them directly. Basically someone who has pedagogical education similar to a regular teacher and knowledge in drugs, behavioural disorders, etc. Someone like this often can help better than even the parents.
They would have to be hired by Kespa, or even a group outside the espots scene to be effective. If they are payed and hired by the team they will always put the interests of the team ahead of the players'.
I just browsed Aligulac today and wondered "where the fuck is Life?". Ooops haha. The fixed matches are hilarious. Life's just too good to do this convincingly, which is pretty ironic. They must have caught on to these strange matches somehow.
Did we ever get any news on punishment? I think an exception should be made for the life time ban due to his GOAT status. Fine him 70k and give him one more chance. He sure has racked up some prize money over the years, maybe it's worth it. And then take the money and fund another tournament in Korea. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
It's not exactly letting him off. That's a huge fine for the industry. Who knows if he even has it. It's not like top players in other sports don't get exceptions.
On May 31 2016 14:50 TRaFFiC wrote: It's not exactly letting him off. That's a huge fine for the industry. Who knows if he even has it. It's not like top players in other sports don't get exceptions.
For match fixing?
I can't think of any player in any big sports league that's playing again after match fixing.
On May 31 2016 14:50 TRaFFiC wrote: It's not exactly letting him off. That's a huge fine for the industry. Who knows if he even has it. It's not like top players in other sports don't get exceptions.
For match fixing?
I can't think of any player in any big sports league that's playing again after match fixing.
-Literally every football club ever condemned for matchfixing -Many football players involved in matchfixing, such as Paolo Rossi who won a World Cup after being convinced of matchfixing -Nelson Piquet Jr., still a racing driver after intentionally crashing out of a Formula One race -I'm not familiar with cricket but apparently three Pakistani guys (Asi, Ali, and ???) are back into cricket after several years of suspension for matchfixing -Three teams fixed the finish of the 2013 Federated Auto Parts 400 -If you consider doping as matchfixing, then you also have a whole lotta guys who dopped and came back And the list goes on and on
On May 31 2016 14:50 TRaFFiC wrote: It's not exactly letting him off. That's a huge fine for the industry. Who knows if he even has it. It's not like top players in other sports don't get exceptions.
For match fixing?
I can't think of any player in any big sports league that's playing again after match fixing.
-Literally every football club ever condemned for matchfixing -Many football players involved in matchfixing, such as Paolo Rossi who won a World Cup after being convinced of matchfixing -Nelson Piquet Jr., still a racing driver after intentionally crashing out of a Formula One race -I'm not familiar with cricket but apparently three Pakistani guys (Asi, Ali, and ???) are back into cricket after several years of suspension for matchfixing -Three teams fixed the finish of the 2013 Federated Auto Parts 400 -If you consider doping as matchfixing, then you also have a whole lotta guys who dopped and came back And the list goes on and on
Only know about the cricket one from those but cricket is super weird with match fixing. Some guys get life bans and some get a couple years. Those three did 'spot fixing' like bowling no balls at specific times. Kinda like throwing balls at certain times in Baseball I guess.
I think only one of them has come back to play, he was like 19 when he got caught and they were lenient, saying he was led into it by his captain etc. The other two got banned for long enough to basically end their careers.
Based on my understanding of the Korean society (which is very limited), there are lower possibilities of being allowed to return there than in many other countries.
as much as I'd like to see Life return, it would be just unfair to the other players caught matchfixing like Yoda, B4 etc. either ban them all or ban none. Also it would not really be a good example for other players considering matchfixing. Sadly there is 0% chance we will ever see Life again.
Life and others are old enough to differentiate between good and evil. They are responsible for their own mistakes and have to live with the consequences.
But the punishment needs to be fair. Teenager have not the experience to handle such situations properly. Also it was a one time mistake. If life is punished too hard, it will destroy his whole future. That would send the wrong message. The punishment needs to focus on rehabilitation. It is important, that he can start over as soon as possible and shape his own future without obstacles on the way.
Its always the small man, who suffers. Its always him, who takes the risk. Thats how the world works. Even if you would catch a big fish, the day after he will be already replaced by another. Give people no reason to work with mafia. Thats the only way to combat mafia in the long run.
On May 31 2016 14:36 TRaFFiC wrote: Did we ever get any news on punishment? I think an exception should be made for the life time ban due to his GOAT status. Fine him 70k and give him one more chance. He sure has racked up some prize money over the years, maybe it's worth it. And then take the money and fund another tournament in Korea. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Eh, they didn't even let SaviOr off, and he never actually matchfixed himself, don't expect KeSPA to make exception for Life
EPT
