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Legacy of the Void - Ladder Season 2 Map Pool

Forum Index > SC2 General
142 CommentsPost a Reply
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The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 24 2016 20:26 GMT
#1
With the new Ladder season comes a new map pool! But before the maps enter the fray on Ladder, they will be available for testing in Custom Games starting today. Read on for more of our philosophy on maps.

1v1

Thank you everyone for working towards pushing map diversity through really distinct maps. As we’ve discussed many times before, the primary goal of map diversity is to mix up strategies and build orders—when playing online as well as when viewing tournaments. It’s a much better experience to be able to explore various strategies by making each map as unique and different as possible compared to other maps in the pool. For map cuts, the obvious three to cut are the oldest maps, Orbital Shipyard, Lerilak Crest, and Ruins of Seras. The last map we decided to cut was Central Protocol, the weakest map out of the remaining four.

With that said, let’s talk about the unique features of each new map going into 1v1.

(2) Frozen Temple

[image loading]


This is one of the map layouts that we discussed with the community a couple months ago. This map features an easily defended main attack path. A small ramp leads down to the center path that players can easily build structures and send units to defend. Once this is taken care of, the main avenues of attack will be the farther ground paths. We’re hoping to see a good mix of positional play around the center of the map as well as mobile or air units being a bit more effective in utilizing the far paths.

(2) Ruins of Endion

[image loading]


This is the second map that came from the many community discussions asking “Are there ways to slowly push a more island-like map, without making an actual island map?” Destructible Rock Towers right outside of your natural expansion can cut off all ground paths to your base, and provide up to four bases that you can secure while watching over the blocked-off paths. We will evaluate how something like this works, and then maybe push the idea further in the future.

(4) Invader LE

[image loading]


This is the map we also discussed as being a potential replacement to Central Protocol. The main similarity is that the third base is much more difficult to take than other maps. The improvement we believe Invader has to compensate for this disadvantage is that the fourth base is much easier to take once the third is secured. We’re excited to see how this map turns out.

(8) Korhal Carnage Knockout LE

[image loading]


The main cool factor of this map looks to be the fact that Destructible Rocks and Rock Tower usage will be critical both on offense and defense. For example, if the back door rocks to the main base aren’t broken at the correct time, it could be very difficult to stop harassment attacks. On the flip side, we liked the fact that there is a Rock Tower that can be broken very close by, so holding that location is much easier. Overall, this map really pushes the boundaries of heavy strategic usage of Destructible Rocks and Rock Tower mechanics, so we’re very interested in seeing how the maps turn out.

Team Maps

For team maps, our main focus was to create overall good diversity on a per format basis, and we also wanted to make sure that each map doesn’t become too complicated, especially if the formats were bigger. There are so many more variables in team games due to more players being involved, so we feel that it’s important to not overdo the complexity.



2v2

(4) Magma Mines

[image loading]


This map is a close quarters air fortress style map where players will have a fairly easy time coordinating with their allies. We expect that players can play a straight forward macro game on this map.

(8) Mobius Facility XX-1

[image loading]


By introducing multiple spawn points, we hope to bring in the importance of scouting and reacting gameplay that we have on 1v1 to 2v2. As there is a lot of fun to be had in terms of scouting the opponent’s location before committing to a strategic decision, we wanted to create a bigger map again.



3v3

(6) New Richmond

[image loading]


This is a map where all players start separated, and more aggressive play will be rewarded. The center of the map is the main (and only) attack path, so gaining control of that location will be important. We feel that we were a bit low on this type of map for 3v3, so we wanted to create a fun map that can fill this slot.

(6) Slaying Fields

[image loading]


This map features one of the players gaining easy access to a High Yield base as the natural expansion, and other players have potential High Yield bases that they can utilize. We hope to have a lot of interaction and engagements at these key locations.



4v4

(8) Mobius Facility XX-1

[image loading]


This is a 4v4 map where two sets of two players start together, and the other teammates start separated. Depending on which teammate started next to you, players will have to plan their strategy accordingly.

(8) Void Zone

[image loading]


This map is unique in that three of the players start in the same fortress, but the rush distance to the opposing team’s three players is quite close. On the other hand, the separated players per team have a really far attack path. What makes things more interesting is that the main path leading to allies can be blocked off by breaking Rock Towers. We hope to have some cool situations that arise from such a unique map.

We look forward to seeing what kind of unique strategies players are capable of on these new maps. Thank you for your time and we’ll see you on Ladder!


Source
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Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
NinjaToss
Profile Blog Joined October 2015
Austria1383 Posts
March 24 2016 20:28 GMT
#2
Frozen Temple and Ruins of Endion is absolutely gorgeous imo
I kinda thought KCK was made as a troll map, but it's visually beautiful. Let's see how this map turns out to be
Invader is also cool as well I think
all in all I think Blizz is being overproductive today
I'm sorry for all those that got their hearts broken by Zest | Zest, Bisu, soO, herO, MC, Maru, TY, Rogue, Trap, TaeJa", Favourite foreigners: ShoWTimE, Snute, Serral and Nerchio| KT BEST KT |
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 20:32:02
March 24 2016 20:31 GMT
#3
My thoughts: We will live with the team maps. 3v3 ones look nice, not really the 4v4 ones or 2v2 ones. I'm very disappointed Blizzard had a huge selection of excellent community maps (see here) and they went with one of the less inspired Avex maps and Korhal Carnage Knockout (which is pretty old and designed for HotS). These four are still a step up from the last season, but could be much better.

On March 25 2016 05:28 NinjaToss wrote:
Frozen Temple and Ruins of Endion is absolutely gorgeous imo
I kinda thought KCK was made as a troll map, but it's visually beautiful. Let's see how this map turns out to be
Invader is also cool as well I think
all in all I think Blizz is being overproductive today

Funny, the two you really like are actually blizzard-made . They've gotten better.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
March 24 2016 20:33 GMT
#4
Blizzard maps need to finally go and they need to rotate every single map from the abomination of the current pool.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
March 24 2016 20:36 GMT
#5
I like the new maps. They're also a bit brighter which is what many people wanted. Hope they're fun to play.

Ofc it's disappointing for the map makers if what Templar says is true.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
March 24 2016 20:40 GMT
#6
The maps look fun to play, but im going to veto korhal for sure.
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 24 2016 20:41 GMT
#7
On March 25 2016 05:33 Ej_ wrote:
Blizzard maps need to finally go and they need to rotate every single map from the abomination of the current pool.

I would have done that for this season and picked these seven or something similar:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


There were a lot of choices, and although a lot of them are pretty old that doesn't really seem to be an issue.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
lastride
Profile Joined April 2014
2390 Posts
March 24 2016 20:43 GMT
#8
Some of the current maps are good. Theres no reason to change everything
SmykuToronto
Profile Joined October 2014
Poland269 Posts
March 24 2016 20:45 GMT
#9
I know it's impossible but I kind of wish there would be a close spawn possibility on Korhal Carnage. Just cuz I'm an asshole.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 24 2016 20:45 GMT
#10
On March 25 2016 05:45 SmykuToronto wrote:
I know it's impossible but I kind of wish there would be a close spawn possibility on Korhal Carnage. Just cuz I'm an asshole.

SGTK and I played it a while ago. It was close spawns, and sometimes this stuff slips past Blizzard
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8224 Posts
March 24 2016 20:45 GMT
#11
Ruins of Endion is close by air. Not sure I like close by air.
Ctone23
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States1839 Posts
March 24 2016 20:54 GMT
#12
On March 25 2016 05:45 geokilla wrote:
Ruins of Endion is close by air. Not sure I like close by air.

Yeah i'm in the same boat. It's cool the rocks block off the ground paths, but with such a close path for air I don't see how the rocks are relevant.
TL+ Member
Savven
Profile Joined September 2015
8 Posts
March 24 2016 20:57 GMT
#13
Looks as blizzard is like a kid which wanna capture a butterfly but they don't have a butterfly net.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
March 24 2016 20:58 GMT
#14
Really happy about how the maps look. I will just veto Corhal Karnage, that's fine.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
adnap2
Profile Joined December 2014
France26 Posts
March 24 2016 20:59 GMT
#15
new 2v2 maps? cool
Universum
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada192 Posts
March 24 2016 21:00 GMT
#16
Can't wait to try them all (at least the 1vs1) on ladder and see how they play out ! First glance though, pretty sure I'm not gonna like the 8 player 1vs1 one.
You often learn more from losing than winning. Don't rage, it's a game!
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
March 24 2016 21:02 GMT
#17
Ruins of Endion should be cross map
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 24 2016 21:10 GMT
#18
On March 25 2016 06:02 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Ruins of Endion should be cross map

It's 2 player. Do you mean it should be rotationally symmetric? That would be interesting.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Redfish
Profile Joined April 2010
United States142 Posts
March 24 2016 21:11 GMT
#19
I hope I'm not the only one that is very underwhelmed by some of these.

Frozen Temple looks great visually, but in practice I'm very concerned with the location of third bases. With rocks broken there are four different attack paths to it, as opposed to the one or two of many of the current maps. Invader has the same issue with extremely difficult third bases. Unfortunately this will probably lead towards skewed winrates again for races that have a much easier time taking a quick third and force races that can't expand as fast into a lot of two base all-ins to try and win on those maps.

Endion is kind of the opposite. I can see it being a very Protoss favored map instead since Stargate-into-third builds will be amazing with that close air distance and protected third and fourth base locations.

And KCK could be cool, but those main base locations at 3/6/9/12 instead of corner spots are gonna be an absolute bitch to defend from drops. I had also hoped that we'd finally realized that backdoor rocks are always terrible, but apparently they haven't put down that kool-aid yet.

Gonna be a looooong season.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13969 Posts
March 24 2016 21:19 GMT
#20
KCK will be the greatest SC2 map of all time.
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 24 2016 21:20 GMT
#21
On March 25 2016 06:19 Cricketer12 wrote:
KCK will be the greatest SC2 map of all time.

Better than Cactus Valley?
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
DSK
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
England1110 Posts
March 24 2016 21:24 GMT
#22
Endion reminds me of Ulrena, minus the close rush distance but still with the close air. Then again there's the possibility of ballsy as hell Gangnam terran at the central gold base.

Genuinely surprised Korhal Carnage got picked instead of some of the other fantastic designs, but here's hoping they appear next season or at other events.
**@ YT: SC2POVs at https://www.youtube.com/c/SC2POVsTV | https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/SC2POVs @**
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13969 Posts
March 24 2016 21:24 GMT
#23
On March 25 2016 06:20 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 06:19 Cricketer12 wrote:
KCK will be the greatest SC2 map of all time.

Better than Cactus Valley?

Anything can happen ^^
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
March 24 2016 21:25 GMT
#24
What are the spawn rules for KCK? Surely it's not any possible combo with 8 possible spawn points?
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Pseudorandom
Profile Joined April 2010
United States120 Posts
March 24 2016 21:28 GMT
#25
Frozen Temple looks pretty bad for taking 3rd/4th bases.

Ruins of Endion air distances is going to make that a rough map I think. Airtoss should enjoy that one, with the liberator buffs maybe T wont have a huge field-day, but drops could be brutal if an army ever leaves the base.

Invader, I have no idea. I think if air spawns are allowed, similar thoughts to Endion. Close ground and cross seem not so bad though. Are those light-bridges able to be crossed?

KCK is the kind of map that makes me glad to be a spectator not a player. GL on that one ya'll, seems like whack-a-mole.
"This is scissors, paper is fine, paper just needs to learn how to play. Paper needs to stop complaining." - richlol
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?36990 Posts
March 24 2016 21:33 GMT
#26
On March 25 2016 06:25 NonY wrote:
What are the spawn rules for KCK? Surely it's not any possible combo with 8 possible spawn points?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/447808-8-korhal-carnage-knockout?page=2#33
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
CxWiLL
Profile Joined May 2013
China830 Posts
March 24 2016 21:34 GMT
#27
On March 25 2016 06:25 NonY wrote:
What are the spawn rules for KCK? Surely it's not any possible combo with 8 possible spawn points?

make close spawn in KCK possible.
I can do PF rush on that map all day.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 21:37:47
March 24 2016 21:35 GMT
#28
On March 25 2016 06:10 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 06:02 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Ruins of Endion should be cross map

It's 2 player. Do you mean it should be rotationally symmetric? That would be interesting.

He means the bases shouldn't be close by air. Because that's never balanced.

I just noticed the main/nat/3rd layout of Frozen Temple is basically Outboxer. I'm okay with that.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
March 24 2016 21:38 GMT
#29
On March 25 2016 06:33 Seeker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 06:25 NonY wrote:
What are the spawn rules for KCK? Surely it's not any possible combo with 8 possible spawn points?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/447808-8-korhal-carnage-knockout?page=2#33

That's good. Still gonna be a wild map.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 24 2016 21:40 GMT
#30
On March 25 2016 06:25 NonY wrote:
What are the spawn rules for KCK? Surely it's not any possible combo with 8 possible spawn points?

Seeker is possibly wrong. SetGuitarsToKill and I played the map version that was submitted to Blizzard and we spawned right next to each other (in the same quadrant), so presumably Blizzard was working with a version that had all spawns enabled. I dunno if they fixed that.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
March 24 2016 22:23 GMT
#31
Frozen Temple seems okay at a glance. I'm not sure why they want the Ruins of Endion spawns to be so close by air--we already have Ulrena. The fact that they chose Invader because it has a very difficult to hold third is perplexing. The thirds of Frozen Temple and Korhal Carnage Knockout are already on the less easy to hold side of the spectrum, so I'm not sure we needed to fill that niche. And Korhal Carnage Knockout is Korhal Carnage Knockout.

Did they change the mains of KCK to weaken siege tank liberator abuse? Because if not this map will be even rougher to play on.
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
March 24 2016 22:23 GMT
#32
Ruins of Endion looks like a vertical Ulrena
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24192 Posts
March 24 2016 22:40 GMT
#33
Those maps look decent overall, though I don't get why Invader disables cross and not close by air. I'm fed up with close by air maps and we're getting some more of those Scrap Station like maps.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15883 Posts
March 24 2016 22:42 GMT
#34
The main cool factor of this map

pls... everytime I hear that statement I know bad things are about to come..

.

.

back door rocks to the main base

this time is no exception

but the other maps look good.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
March 24 2016 22:46 GMT
#35
Don't like Frozen Temple, it looks plain, boring and the third and 4th bases are weirdly placed and look like they don't contribute to a good gameflow.
I don't expect most of these to become alltime classics, but I'm definitely looking forward to trying them.
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
March 24 2016 22:49 GMT
#36
How do the spawns work on some of these maps? KCK? Invader? Any disabled possibilities?
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
sparklyresidue
Profile Joined August 2011
United States5523 Posts
March 24 2016 22:51 GMT
#37
Is changing number of gases per base not a thing to ever exist for sc2? Just curious. Maps look decent.
Like Tinkerbelle, I leave behind a sparkly residue.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 23:11:27
March 24 2016 22:59 GMT
#38
On March 25 2016 07:51 sparklyresidue wrote:
Is changing number of gases per base not a thing to ever exist for sc2? Just curious. Maps look decent.


Not for ladder maps unfortunately. Blizzard inexplicably still requires standard bases. Outside ladder it happens from time to time. The GSL version of daybreak's central bases had 6 mineral patches and a single rich geyser, but the ladder version had normal bases.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 23:06:45
March 24 2016 23:00 GMT
#39
Well, it looks like the season 2 map pool...... rocks!

I want close positions Korhal Carnage Knockout for old time Metalopolis sake.

Also LOL @ Void Zone totally fucking over 1 of the 4 players haha

Ruins of Endion will be the beginning of the rise of swarmhost turtle harass. Defend the rocks and fly locust to the other players main.
Neosteel Enthusiast
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 23:20:46
March 24 2016 23:16 GMT
#40
I look at Ruins of Endion and all I think about is building a factory and a starport outside of my base, as close by air as possible.

As a Zerg, do you not drop all-in on this map every time you meet a Protoss here?
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 23:41:23
March 24 2016 23:28 GMT
#41
On March 25 2016 08:16 Elentos wrote:
I look at Ruins of Endion and all I think about is building a factory and a starport outside of my base, as close by air as possible.

As a Zerg, do you not drop all-in on this map every time you meet a Protoss here?


Ling drops look slightly worse on this map than Ulrena. Ling-drops are still probably extremely strong.

edit: It's hard to evaluate exactly how strong ling-drops are compared to Ulrena without seeing games. The main/natural layout is less favourable for ling-drops, ling-drops are more scoutable on this map, and the ground reinforcement distance is longer. The strength of ling drops on this map is somewhere between viable and Ulrena at any rate.
HelpMeGetBetter
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States763 Posts
March 24 2016 23:30 GMT
#42
What maps are staying?
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
March 24 2016 23:31 GMT
#43
On March 25 2016 08:30 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
What maps are staying?

Dusk Towers, Ulrena and Prion Terraces.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8157 Posts
March 24 2016 23:36 GMT
#44
On March 25 2016 08:31 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 08:30 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
What maps are staying?

Dusk Towers, Ulrena and Prion Terraces.


2/3 of my vetos woo
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
Dalmatica
Profile Joined March 2011
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 23:40:58
March 24 2016 23:40 GMT
#45
I absolutely love all the low ground natural expansions. It'll probably be rough going into it at first for everyone, but I'm excited to see what comes out of it!
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
March 24 2016 23:41 GMT
#46
On March 25 2016 08:36 Jer99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 08:31 Elentos wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:30 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
What maps are staying?

Dusk Towers, Ulrena and Prion Terraces.


2/3 of my vetos woo

I have adapted to Prion Terraces. I just make reapers. And if it's TvP I just try not to lose too quickly.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Supah
Profile Joined August 2010
708 Posts
March 24 2016 23:45 GMT
#47
On March 25 2016 08:41 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 08:36 Jer99 wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:31 Elentos wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:30 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
What maps are staying?

Dusk Towers, Ulrena and Prion Terraces.


2/3 of my vetos woo

I have adapted to Prion Terraces. I just make reapers. And if it's TvP I just try not to lose too quickly.


You play P's on this map? I thought it was an auto veto because of Zerg and double gold.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
March 24 2016 23:48 GMT
#48
On March 25 2016 08:45 Supah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 08:41 Elentos wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:36 Jer99 wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:31 Elentos wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:30 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
What maps are staying?

Dusk Towers, Ulrena and Prion Terraces.


2/3 of my vetos woo

I have adapted to Prion Terraces. I just make reapers. And if it's TvP I just try not to lose too quickly.


You play P's on this map? I thought it was an auto veto because of Zerg and double gold.

Very rarely. I generally have few games against Protoss.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
JonnySC2
Profile Joined December 2015
Germany119 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-24 23:57:55
March 24 2016 23:55 GMT
#49
Korhal Carnage looks horrible. Borderline impossible to expand as Protoss on this map. I guess we are never going to see it outside of Bo7s.

On March 25 2016 08:48 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 08:45 Supah wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:41 Elentos wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:36 Jer99 wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:31 Elentos wrote:
On March 25 2016 08:30 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
What maps are staying?

Dusk Towers, Ulrena and Prion Terraces.


2/3 of my vetos woo

I have adapted to Prion Terraces. I just make reapers. And if it's TvP I just try not to lose too quickly.


You play P's on this map? I thought it was an auto veto because of Zerg and double gold.

Very rarely. I generally have few games against Protoss.


I actually like it as a Protoss player. Aside from the gold bases it is actually one of the better and more standard maps imo.
SKT best KT
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51402 Posts
March 25 2016 00:26 GMT
#50
i really hope they fix kck to spawn the way the map developer intended it to be (cross quadrant). would be an abomination if ladder started and they didn't patch things in time.
Commentator
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 25 2016 00:28 GMT
#51
On March 25 2016 09:26 GTR wrote:
i really hope they fix kck to spawn the way the map developer intended it to be (cross quadrant). would be an abomination if ladder started and they didn't patch things in time.

According to the mapmaker it should be fine.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
March 25 2016 00:39 GMT
#52
I just loaded up the map in the editor and it looks like teams are setup to be cross quadrant only, so I'm hoping once it actually get released online it'll be that way.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
zakadar
Profile Joined December 2015
Germany409 Posts
March 25 2016 01:11 GMT
#53
what i really like about the new maps is that they are all bright
TY my boy gogo
breaker1328
Profile Joined March 2016
Canada295 Posts
March 25 2016 02:20 GMT
#54
Are horizontal spawns disabled on Invader?
My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
Profile Joined March 2010
United States257 Posts
March 25 2016 03:08 GMT
#55
get rid of ulrena already, especially if you're adding Ruins of E, which has that very close air distance. Also I'm worried about close air in Invader as well. Too much close air!!! Frozen Temple looks promising. Its simple and direct, although it relies on rock formations which is annoying. Hopefully we get good games on all of these eh!
Its going to be a glorious day, I feel my luck could change
maximus_0
Profile Joined January 2013
United States43 Posts
March 25 2016 03:44 GMT
#56
give us all new maps you stupid fucks. nobody wants to play these old ones. why on earth would you think keeping 3 and putting in 4 new would be enough?

User was warned for this post
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
March 25 2016 04:26 GMT
#57
On March 25 2016 11:20 breaker1328 wrote:
Are horizontal spawns disabled on Invader?

No, but cross spawns are.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
redloser
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1721 Posts
March 25 2016 04:30 GMT
#58
They would really put a 8-player map in 1v1 ladder? I even hated the randomness of 4-player map. Oh well, I guess it's time to take a break for 3 months I guess.
MaxTa
Profile Joined February 2016
61 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-25 05:14:25
March 25 2016 04:57 GMT
#59
Most of these maps including 2v2 have really close cross spawns by air just like Ruins of serras or Ulrena and I also question the choice of keeping Ulrena when we already have Ruins of Endion (which is basically a new and better version of Ulrena)... Actually, is it just me or most of these maps all share a similar pattern of close cross spawns/fast drop locations ? I do hope some spawns are disabled, cross quadrant would make more sense...

The 3v3 ones well looks like all your teamates are separate and also close by air lol just sayin... Frozen temple and Invader do look nice tho I suppose...
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
March 25 2016 05:25 GMT
#60
Mixed feelings about that map pool. Pretty cool that KCK finally gets picked up for something though props sidian!

Blizzard don't quite have the same crazy-magic that IntoTheMap/Mapdori brought to BW, but maybe we'll get there one day.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Xenotolerance
Profile Joined November 2012
United States464 Posts
March 25 2016 06:12 GMT
#61
I'm fucking gutted that after taking in all those submissions, they really did just make two more of their own. How is that the best outcome for them? For players? For anyone? How can you look at Lightning Eater and think, you know what, not good enough, then make Ruins of Endion, and think, oh good that will do. Is it control issues?

What I want out of this, at this point, is complete open transparent communication directly with their internal mapmakers, and with the people on the balance team who choose the internal maps. What are they thinking, what do they see that we obviously don't, and why the fuck don't they just let the obviously more-talented and inventive mapmakers in the community do their work for them? can you imagine the fucking hype of putting out a poll in battle-net for new maps? or giving one slot to a TLMC every season, etc etc, so many options.

what the hell are they doing
www.alonetone.com/xenotolerance
Infiiiniity
Profile Joined April 2015
45 Posts
March 25 2016 07:35 GMT
#62
Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6327 Posts
March 25 2016 08:21 GMT
#63
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote:
Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.

#creative
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1478 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-25 08:30:26
March 25 2016 08:28 GMT
#64
Waste of virtual space is a vexed eel's map.. funny how lobbying gets you more than actual mapmaking talent, not.

Blizzard is right to treat us like this.. they do whatever and the "community" takes it with a smile.. definitely deserved.

Waste not, want not.
"not enough rights"
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
March 25 2016 08:28 GMT
#65
I don't know shit about LotV but from a HotS standpoint these maps look like balance disasters
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-25 08:30:28
March 25 2016 08:30 GMT
#66
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote:
Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.

some people actually like experimental maps (see: me). the problem is they don't rotate them out fast enough.
vibeo gane,
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3346 Posts
March 25 2016 08:37 GMT
#67
Only 2 new maps for 2v2? That s disappointing. The 3v3 maps look fun though
Horang2 fan
TedBurtle
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Belarus201 Posts
March 25 2016 09:51 GMT
#68
Just played on every one from 1v1, 2-3 times...and PvZ looks preety weird...They want 1 base plays? :D
Unbeatable Protoss
Dumbledore
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden725 Posts
March 25 2016 12:53 GMT
#69
RIP Protoss
Have a nice day ;)
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13969 Posts
March 25 2016 14:11 GMT
#70
On March 25 2016 17:37 WGT-Baal wrote:
Only 2 new maps for 2v2? That s disappointing. The 3v3 maps look fun though

I never enjoyed 2v2...
3v3 is my "try hard" team matchup
4v4 is my "fuck it, proxy hatch their nat"
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4133 Posts
March 25 2016 14:14 GMT
#71
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote:
Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.

you want 7 standard maps? Then I wish I have 6 vetoes because there is no reason to play 7 same/standard maps.
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-25 14:59:06
March 25 2016 14:41 GMT
#72
On March 25 2016 23:14 Dingodile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote:
Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.

you want 7 standard maps? Then I wish I have 6 vetoes because there is no reason to play 7 same/standard maps.

So could we get 2 standard maps then? I think that'd be a decent start. Ulrena isn't standard, Ruins of Endion isn't standard, Invader isn't standard, KCK isn't standard, Prion Terraces isn't standard. Dusk Towers has a backdoor base and a pretty easy 3rd, that one isn't standard either.

We've not had a single actual standard map in the pool for the entirety of LotV. I think it's about time we get something in the spirits of King Sejong Station or Overgrowth so we can actually see how LotV plays out on such maps. The gimmicks just distract.

I mean, there's merit to having weird maps in the pool. But that doesn't mean the entire pool should consist of weird maps.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
egrimm
Profile Joined September 2011
Poland1199 Posts
March 25 2016 14:53 GMT
#73
On March 25 2016 23:41 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 23:14 Dingodile wrote:
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote:
Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.

you want 7 standard maps? Then I wish I have 6 vetoes because there is no reason to play 7 same/standard maps.

So could we get 2 standard maps then? I think that'd be a decent start. Ulrena isn't standard, Ruins of Endion isn't standard, Invader isn't standard, KCK isn't standard, Prion Terraces isn't standard. Dusk Towers has a backdoor base and a pretty easy 3rd, that one isn't standard either.

We've not had a single actual standard map in the pool for the entirety of LotV.

Looks like "standard" became a "non-standard and unique"
sOs TY PartinG
Yello
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany7411 Posts
March 25 2016 15:08 GMT
#74
I am mostly disappointed that they didn't switch out all the maps. If they do a new season without switching any maps at all they should at least switch all the maps after 2 seasons.

I mean Dusk Towers may be a good map but I'm so bored of it, I just don't want to play or see it anymore. Does it sound weird that of all the maps in the new map pool I'll definitely veto Dusk towers first?
Just ahead of time, know your addiction's not a crime. It's just a smaller part of who you want to become in the end.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
March 25 2016 15:46 GMT
#75
I like all of the 1v1 maps except of course the one with the back door rocks.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
March 25 2016 15:52 GMT
#76
On March 25 2016 23:14 Dingodile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote:
Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.

you want 7 standard maps? Then I wish I have 6 vetoes because there is no reason to play 7 same/standard maps.

standard isn't synonymous to "the same", and frankly, the best map pools we've had on the ladder (Overgrowth, KSS and the friends) only shined because they had multiple normal, macro-oriented maps
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
March 25 2016 15:58 GMT
#77
Korhal Carnage Knockout LE. This map is so bad but I want to see it played so much.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-25 16:22:15
March 25 2016 16:18 GMT
#78
They couldn't push 2 of their own maps last season, and just leave this one to the community? There were 0 new maps last season, and it couldn't take that long for the team to come up with just 2 maps. I did 3 maps in 3 weeks by myself. The way Blizzard was talking about it, I was expecting them to look for community maps with the features they described. Varied attack paths is something any good mapmaker practices regularly, it's not something Blizzard magically discovered on their own. Look at Cloud Kingdom for God's sake, and that was how many years ago? Good to know that after all that talk, half the maps are Blizzard's anyway.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13969 Posts
March 25 2016 16:18 GMT
#79
On March 26 2016 00:58 royalroadweed wrote:
Korhal Carnage Knockout LE. This map is so good it will be banned, but I want to see it played so much.

FTFY
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
March 25 2016 18:39 GMT
#80
On March 26 2016 00:58 royalroadweed wrote:
Korhal Carnage Knockout LE. This map is so bad but I want to see it played so much.

All 3 times we'll see it used in competitive play will be fun for sure
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Dabble
Profile Joined February 2016
39 Posts
March 25 2016 21:12 GMT
#81
Frozen Temple looks excellent, I always liked the look of maps with thin valleys in the center but the maps with this feature before were huge maps, and besides that were barely played at a high level. This map pretty much forces the point, somewhat like Ulrena where there's a one-unit wide pathway that's used in just about every game. Other than that it reminds me of Neo Planet S, but with destructible rocks.

Ruins of Endion is kind of unremarkable, it's another experiment with close spawns by air. More rocks. Kind of on the fence about this one.

KCK does look f'n crazy and just looking at it I want to play some games there. The pro version won't use all 8 spawns will it?
AFSpeeDy
Profile Joined June 2011
126 Posts
March 25 2016 21:21 GMT
#82
Frozen Temple reminds of Heavy Rain with that central path.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
March 25 2016 21:29 GMT
#83
On March 26 2016 06:12 Dabble wrote:
Frozen Temple looks excellent, I always liked the look of maps with thin valleys in the center but the maps with this feature before were huge maps, and besides that were barely played at a high level. This map pretty much forces the point, somewhat like Ulrena where there's a one-unit wide pathway that's used in just about every game. Other than that it reminds me of Neo Planet S, but with destructible rocks.

Ruins of Endion is kind of unremarkable, it's another experiment with close spawns by air. More rocks. Kind of on the fence about this one.

KCK does look f'n crazy and just looking at it I want to play some games there. The pro version won't use all 8 spawns will it?

From what I gather, on KCK your opponent is always supposed to spawn on one of the 3 locations that's the furthest from where you spawned.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-25 22:10:00
March 25 2016 22:08 GMT
#84
I'm a little disappointed in Frozen Temple. I was expecting a modern version of lost temple similiar to what Metropolis was to Metalopolis.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
March 25 2016 23:05 GMT
#85
On March 26 2016 07:08 royalroadweed wrote:
I'm a little disappointed in Frozen Temple. I was expecting a modern version of lost temple similiar to what Metropolis was to Metalopolis.

Nope, that's just how Blizzard names their maps, basically a description of what it looks like. Is anyone familiar with Ice Cliffs?
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
March 25 2016 23:53 GMT
#86
CatZ will analyse the new maps on stream soon, if anybody is interested. Mostly from a zerg perspective I guess.

https://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
March 26 2016 01:55 GMT
#87
KCK will be fun. Squeez out one liberator, one tank and one medivac and your enemy will never mine from his main or later his 3rd again. Oh yeah.
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
Ape_Island
Profile Joined February 2016
29 Posts
March 26 2016 02:15 GMT
#88
Does anyone else miss wide-open areas for battle?
Aegwynn
Profile Joined September 2015
Italy460 Posts
March 26 2016 02:33 GMT
#89
Loved them all, at least for the first look. We actually have to play on them to judge. Map changes are always exiting as it creates new metas and offers something new to watch.
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-26 02:41:28
March 26 2016 02:40 GMT
#90
I've played on all of them a number of times.

Korhal is very fun, way better than expected.

Frozen is terrain abuse heaven for terran. Don't enjoy the no choice of third, though. You can take the far away one, but it's siegable from the xel naga tower.

Invader has some crazy positional play too. Also the third/fourth can both be sieged by libs without vision, so put an overlord up there. Other than that, seemed like a pretty normal map?

Ruins is .. something. Reapers seem to get nat to nat quicker than other maps. Dropping pool at 17 instead of 18 makes up for that. There's going to be a lot of breaking the rocks at the gold and pushing through there. It's going to suck.

Reps of the games: http://sc2replaystats.com/account/replays/29/0/1117/1v1/Private/25/0
Cereal
CyanApple
Profile Joined February 2016
48 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-26 09:07:25
March 26 2016 08:50 GMT
#91
Ruins looks like a nice map for positional play. At least to some degree. Could be a good map to test not having tankivacs. Can someone who played it confirm?
If it just wasn't for the close air distance though...
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
March 26 2016 11:30 GMT
#92
another blizzard map thread

10% "as a professional map artisan i find these BLIZZAAHHD maps pitiful and wretched. what curs they are not to offer me a salary to create all of their maps. i must retreat into my mapmaking lair and brood."
15% "finally, new maps! they look cool! woo!"
15% "this was your last chance, blizzard!!! you fucked it up again!!! these idiots never learn!!! aargh!!!"
20% "they removed THOSE maps but not the map OP RACE always BEATS ME ON?!"
20% "i play protoss and one of these maps has a kinda-difficult third base, therefore i'm uninstalling and switching to heroes of the storm for this season"
20% "i play zerg and one of these maps has a kinda-difficult fourth base, therefore i'm switching to protoss"

in seriousness: frozen temple looks cool. ruins of endion just looks like another ROCKS AND GOLD BASES map/rotated ulrena. invader looks decent, but i think it will suffer from "80% of the map is never used in normal games" syndrome. korhal carnage could be interesting too, but gimmicky two base strategies might be too strong at higher levels.
TL+ Member
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-26 11:37:59
March 26 2016 11:35 GMT
#93
On March 26 2016 11:40 InfCereal wrote:There's going to be a lot of breaking the rocks at the gold and pushing through there. It's going to suck.

i imagine the position below the cliff at the natural will be great for bio tank pushes. it's like the position outside the third at orbital shipyard with a much shorter rush distance, and with medivacs spotting tanks will be able to hit rallying units in two or three different areas, which is terrifying. the base with the rocks on it (which zerg will never take against an aggressive terran) also provides natural simcity, which obviously favors terran. with close air and no ulrena rush distance zerg has to go 2 base spire, so i see a lot of zvt on that map being 2 base spire into defending a push while using mutas to try to harass the reinforcements/snipe tankivacs while terran is setting up
TL+ Member
Comedy
Profile Joined March 2016
455 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-27 18:12:55
March 27 2016 17:38 GMT
#94
I hate when David Kim speaks about maps and mentions diversity, distinct maps, different build orders and strategies..

Creativity stemming from bad/weird map design is something that doesn't exist in sc2 esports. Everything you see in tournament games has been done countless times before on ladder and probably thought of by someone else before the player uses it themselves.

It's just an excuse to use gimmicky & bad maps that force players to take gambles.

We've had to deal with the worst map pool in a long time since beta, and I wouldn't be surprised if matters only got worse.

I already knew David Kim gave up on the ideal of trying to create the best multiplayer experience possible for the higher end of the skill spectrum for players/pro-gamers a long time ago and is just getting by doing the bare minimum..

But nowadays it's like the rest of blizzard gave up as well. (WCS, Psione gave up trying to improve things, etc..)
Hoon
Profile Joined December 2010
Brazil891 Posts
March 27 2016 17:44 GMT
#95
Amazing textures, specially the ice map.
SEn Fanclub: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=170834
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
March 27 2016 18:19 GMT
#96
On March 26 2016 20:30 brickrd wrote:
another blizzard map thread

10% "as a professional map artisan i find these BLIZZAAHHD maps pitiful and wretched. what curs they are not to offer me a salary to create all of their maps. i must retreat into my mapmaking lair and brood."

You might be speaking in satire here, but I'm done with all this nonsense. I poured 5 years of work into making maps for this game, and while I rarely saw the success I knew I could pull off, that never mattered to me, I loved doing it, it came from a love of this game, I adored the scene and the maps. As long as somebody, anybody, got recognized, I was happy. My love for this game has been dying however, every time Blizzard talks about what they think is cool, and not what makes the game fun to play, my love for the game dies a little more.

There's a vision Blizzard has for this game, and they think whatever it is, it's really cool, but I can't stand it, their vision shows in the way they control everything, and the way they choose their maps. I know what the community can produce and has produced, I was there, so seeing what really gets Blizzard's stamp of approval is simply disheartening, it robs me of the will to keep doing it. I got into SC2 because it was a fun game, not because it was cool to watch. Remove the word cool from the English dictionary and Blizzard loses more from SC2 than I ever could. My level of disappointment approaches that of an addicted gambler, who just doesn't know when to quit, but there's one difference.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 09:07:33
March 28 2016 07:59 GMT
#97
Invader is so painful as a Zerg when it's not cross or close air TT. It's actually a ridiculously small rush distance and it's impossible to take a third. I think this should get patched out? Feels just like close spawn Metalopolis...I'll keep playing games but it's brutal that both of your thirds are close to the enemy...

Invader's hella awkward, lol. Such a big map and so choked and convoluted. It naturally drives you towards the middle, which is super painful for a race like Zerg. In TvT it's absolutely crucial that you get out on the map and secure the bottom lane (I've only gotten close / close air spawns), which makes you super vulnerable to drops because of how windy the map is, lol.

Lots of abusive siege tank positions since the main is so small. Actually hella hard to fit all your production in your main TT. The map definitely favors P/T vs Z because of how staged the thirds are, how convoluted the map is, and how it naturally drives you towards the middle of the map.

The fact that the map is so convoluted wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so damn big, lol.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
March 28 2016 10:41 GMT
#98
On March 28 2016 16:59 Qwyn wrote:
Invader is so painful as a Zerg when it's not cross or close air TT. It's actually a ridiculously small rush distance and it's impossible to take a third. I think this should get patched out? Feels just like close spawn Metalopolis...I'll keep playing games but it's brutal that both of your thirds are close to the enemy...

Invader's hella awkward, lol. Such a big map and so choked and convoluted. It naturally drives you towards the middle, which is super painful for a race like Zerg. In TvT it's absolutely crucial that you get out on the map and secure the bottom lane (I've only gotten close / close air spawns), which makes you super vulnerable to drops because of how windy the map is, lol.

Lots of abusive siege tank positions since the main is so small. Actually hella hard to fit all your production in your main TT. The map definitely favors P/T vs Z because of how staged the thirds are, how convoluted the map is, and how it naturally drives you towards the middle of the map.

The fact that the map is so convoluted wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so damn big, lol.

2 base muta is really strong on invader
TL+ Member
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
March 28 2016 11:04 GMT
#99
On March 28 2016 19:41 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2016 16:59 Qwyn wrote:
Invader is so painful as a Zerg when it's not cross or close air TT. It's actually a ridiculously small rush distance and it's impossible to take a third. I think this should get patched out? Feels just like close spawn Metalopolis...I'll keep playing games but it's brutal that both of your thirds are close to the enemy...

Invader's hella awkward, lol. Such a big map and so choked and convoluted. It naturally drives you towards the middle, which is super painful for a race like Zerg. In TvT it's absolutely crucial that you get out on the map and secure the bottom lane (I've only gotten close / close air spawns), which makes you super vulnerable to drops because of how windy the map is, lol.

Lots of abusive siege tank positions since the main is so small. Actually hella hard to fit all your production in your main TT. The map definitely favors P/T vs Z because of how staged the thirds are, how convoluted the map is, and how it naturally drives you towards the middle of the map.

The fact that the map is so convoluted wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so damn big, lol.

2 base muta is really strong on invader


2 base muta is never strong in lotv.
Cereal
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
March 28 2016 11:14 GMT
#100
On March 28 2016 20:04 InfCereal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2016 19:41 brickrd wrote:
On March 28 2016 16:59 Qwyn wrote:
Invader is so painful as a Zerg when it's not cross or close air TT. It's actually a ridiculously small rush distance and it's impossible to take a third. I think this should get patched out? Feels just like close spawn Metalopolis...I'll keep playing games but it's brutal that both of your thirds are close to the enemy...

Invader's hella awkward, lol. Such a big map and so choked and convoluted. It naturally drives you towards the middle, which is super painful for a race like Zerg. In TvT it's absolutely crucial that you get out on the map and secure the bottom lane (I've only gotten close / close air spawns), which makes you super vulnerable to drops because of how windy the map is, lol.

Lots of abusive siege tank positions since the main is so small. Actually hella hard to fit all your production in your main TT. The map definitely favors P/T vs Z because of how staged the thirds are, how convoluted the map is, and how it naturally drives you towards the middle of the map.

The fact that the map is so convoluted wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so damn big, lol.

2 base muta is really strong on invader


2 base muta is never strong in lotv.

try it, the map is huge, has weird terrain you can abuse and the third is awkward to take. it's a muta map
TL+ Member
Sif_
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil3106 Posts
March 28 2016 12:26 GMT
#101
crap, is 3rax reaper dead with central protocol and orbital shipyard gone? :'(
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3346 Posts
March 28 2016 13:39 GMT
#102
On March 25 2016 23:11 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 17:37 WGT-Baal wrote:
Only 2 new maps for 2v2? That s disappointing. The 3v3 maps look fun though

I never enjoyed 2v2...
3v3 is my "try hard" team matchup
4v4 is my "fuck it, proxy hatch their nat"


I have the same approach to 4v4. I rarely play 3v3 though and 2v2 is still fun with friends, but the maps are pretty bad and/or havr been there forever
Horang2 fan
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 14:03:43
March 28 2016 14:01 GMT
#103
On March 28 2016 21:26 Sif_ wrote:
crap, is 3rax reaper dead with central protocol and orbital shipyard gone? :'(

I think it should work on most of the new maps just fine. I haven't gotten around to testing it, but it shouldn't be bad on Frozen Temple and KCK. And if you can jump up and down the cliffs right between the bases (where the gold is) on Ruins of Endion, it's probably broken on that map.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
March 28 2016 14:32 GMT
#104
Is it known which maps are going to be replaced by those new ones and which are going to stay? I can't find this information anywhere.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 14:41:07
March 28 2016 14:39 GMT
#105
On March 28 2016 23:32 opisska wrote:
Is it known which maps are going to be replaced by those new ones and which are going to stay? I can't find this information anywhere.

I have no idea about the team maps, dunno why they don't mention that in the announcement. For 1v1, Dusk Towers, Prion Terraces and Ulrena stayed (oh god why?).
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
March 28 2016 15:06 GMT
#106
On March 28 2016 23:39 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2016 23:32 opisska wrote:
Is it known which maps are going to be replaced by those new ones and which are going to stay? I can't find this information anywhere.

I have no idea about the team maps, dunno why they don't mention that in the announcement. For 1v1, Dusk Towers, Prion Terraces and Ulrena stayed (oh god why?).


Thanks. Prion and Ulrena, heh? Haven't they heard enough hate Dusk Towers seems to be the new Daybreak though, a solid choice.

The team maps, I am really curious - I now play virtually only 2v2s and the map pool really makes it or breaks it completely - some seasons it is great, some not so much ... and it's not really immediately obvious to me when looking at the maps which will be good. Obviously separated bases are complete shit, but beyond that, some maps just turn out to be really impossible to expand on beyond a natural. Well, let's see.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
March 28 2016 15:48 GMT
#107
so apparently Invader is all spawns BUT cross

my new map to 2 base all-in vs Terran every game
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
March 28 2016 15:55 GMT
#108
On March 29 2016 00:48 Ej_ wrote:
so apparently Invader is all spawns BUT cross

my new map to 2 base all-in vs Terran every game


Yeah, I need an all-in for vertical spawn on this map. Close air I'll try 2 hatch muta into macro maybe.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
March 28 2016 15:58 GMT
#109
On March 29 2016 00:55 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2016 00:48 Ej_ wrote:
so apparently Invader is all spawns BUT cross

my new map to 2 base all-in vs Terran every game


Yeah, I need an all-in for vertical spawn on this map. Close air I'll try 2 hatch muta into macro maybe.


Go muta anyway, this is like the muta-est map ever, even when not close by air.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
March 28 2016 15:59 GMT
#110
Wait, is one of the 4v4 maps a 2v2 map with all the positions filled, or did you just use the wrong image?
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
March 28 2016 16:15 GMT
#111
On March 29 2016 00:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Wait, is one of the 4v4 maps a 2v2 map with all the positions filled, or did you just use the wrong image?


It even has the same name in text

Happened before at least with Old Country
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
March 28 2016 16:26 GMT
#112
Except Khoral a fun map pool so far.
Zest fanboy.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-28 16:54:15
March 28 2016 16:51 GMT
#113
On March 29 2016 01:26 sAsImre wrote:
Except Khoral a fun map pool so far.

I like Korhal the most out of the all maps here, looks cheesy but it's a decent macro map.

e: btw we found that 4 lings can kill the rock towers on Ruins of Endion before your 3rd hatchery finishes in ZvZ. Expecting a ton of funny builds there.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
BaronVonOwn
Profile Joined April 2011
299 Posts
March 28 2016 19:16 GMT
#114
I think the concept behind Frozen Temple is really cool but unfortunately air units and transports are so powerful that I'm not sure if strategic positioning and terrain matter very much in SC2.
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
March 28 2016 22:14 GMT
#115
On March 29 2016 01:51 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2016 01:26 sAsImre wrote:
Except Khoral a fun map pool so far.

I like Korhal the most out of the all maps here, looks cheesy but it's a decent macro map.

e: btw we found that 4 lings can kill the rock towers on Ruins of Endion before your 3rd hatchery finishes in ZvZ. Expecting a ton of funny builds there.

I'd like Khoral if walling my main was decently possible.
Zest fanboy.
KiWiKaKi
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada691 Posts
March 29 2016 01:39 GMT
#116
I feel like blizzard is trolling us with these maps
ur pro or ur noob , thats life
Asturas
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Finland587 Posts
March 29 2016 06:24 GMT
#117
So far my experience, recently I play Random, my best race is Terran, worst is Protoss.
Frozen Temple - I don't think I will veto it. Not my favorite, but still, quite ok. It's rather standard map.
Ruins of Endion - Same as above. With one exception, it's bit weird :D
Invader LE - My veto. Small main, so not enough place for buildings, 3rd hard to take. Nope, nope! I really don't like it.
Korhal Carnage Knockout LE - such a weird map! So far I had fun with it, however playing against Protoss is annoying. All sorts of proxies, air play and so on.


I don't care about team maps. I used to play a lot of team games in WoL and in HotS. In LotV I stopped as it is always the same (ALWAYS!) - Protoss going mass air, and you have to counter it or die trying. No fun in this for me.
There are no boundaries, that's the final conclusion.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
March 29 2016 06:29 GMT
#118
After playing these, heavily struggling to play ZvT on the new maps. . Maybe it just takes some time getting used to. Not to say the old maps weren't Zerg biased, but it seems like quite the shift...

Then again, i'll watch 2 months from now how Z is even more dominant than ever due to the maps...
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15883 Posts
March 29 2016 06:53 GMT
#119
invader is a complete nightmare to play as terran because the main base is so small it's impossible to fit all your production in there without blocking your units
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
plouer
Profile Joined October 2011
France32 Posts
March 29 2016 10:09 GMT
#120
a link to delete korhal from the map pool :

https://www.change.org/p/blizzard-entertainment-replace-korhal-carnage-knockout-le-with-a-real-map

this map is "i think" a all-in map where you cannot secure correctly any base
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-29 10:36:49
March 29 2016 10:34 GMT
#121
Mech is basically unplayable on all of these maps, if not worse on these maps than the previous map pool. With that being said, i do not even understand how Protoss is playable vs Zerg on any of these maps at all.

The maps all heavily favor Zerg from what i've seen in every match-up, P is massively favored versus T, and in general the new maps are really bad imo.

A lot of them have massive amounts of rocks everywhere very arbitrarily...like one map has two sets of rocks...on your main ramp...what? Why?

I'd rather play a bo50 on ulrena than on these new maps =/ @_@
Final thought: yeh, these are even worse for mech - not too happy.

also...Why is there a 4v4 player in the 1v1 map pool? Does blizzard associate "macro map" with "MAKE IT GIGANTIC!"

A map isn't automatically a macro map just because it's gigantic.

Pretty much agree with kiwikaki:

On March 29 2016 10:39 KiWiKaKi wrote:
I feel like blizzard is trolling us with these maps

Sup
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15883 Posts
March 29 2016 11:45 GMT
#122
I kinda like frozen temple and ruins of endion.
Invader and KCK on the other hand are pretty terrible.

Unique maps are not necessarily bad but I just wish we had at least 4 standard maps in the pool so you can veto the unique ones if you don't want to play them. That would make everyone happy.
But making the community happy doesn't seem to be a high priority from blizzard unfortunately
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
March 29 2016 12:03 GMT
#123
On March 29 2016 20:45 Charoisaur wrote:
I kinda like frozen temple and ruins of endion.
Invader and KCK on the other hand are pretty terrible.

Unique maps are not necessarily bad but I just wish we had at least 4 standard maps in the pool so you can veto the unique ones if you don't want to play them. That would make everyone happy.
But making the community happy doesn't seem to be a high priority from blizzard unfortunately


4 is way too much, but I wouldn't mind having one or two at some point. Maybe frozen temple and ruins of endion could be such though.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
March 29 2016 12:28 GMT
#124
Protoss players are so fucked on this map pool, I've been getting cannon rushed more and more again.

It doesn't work, but it's quite funny how desperate they are.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
March 29 2016 13:12 GMT
#125
On March 29 2016 21:28 Musicus wrote:
Protoss players are so fucked on this map pool, I've been getting cannon rushed more and more again.

It doesn't work, but it's quite funny how desperate they are.


Well, if the norm doesn't work, they're going to start throwing shit at the wall until something sticks.

Who knows, something revolutionary might stick.
Cereal
BaronVonOwn
Profile Joined April 2011
299 Posts
March 29 2016 14:21 GMT
#126
While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.

Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
March 29 2016 14:26 GMT
#127
On March 29 2016 23:21 BaronVonOwn wrote:
While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.

Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.



The maps with a lot of rocks weren't created by blizzard.
Cereal
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
March 29 2016 14:28 GMT
#128
the new maps look nice
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 29 2016 14:34 GMT
#129
On March 29 2016 23:21 BaronVonOwn wrote:
While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.

Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.

Only the first two are made by blizzard and they have a normal number of rocks.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
March 29 2016 14:34 GMT
#130
On March 29 2016 23:21 BaronVonOwn wrote:
While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.

Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.


No, they do not. Long-lived maps are a terrible thing and pros can be pros exactly as well when the maps are rotating completely every couple of months.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
March 29 2016 14:38 GMT
#131
On March 29 2016 23:26 InfCereal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2016 23:21 BaronVonOwn wrote:
While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.

Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.


The maps with a lot of rocks weren't created by blizzard.


They were picked by Blizz from a big list of possibilites tho.
Revolutionist fan
BaronVonOwn
Profile Joined April 2011
299 Posts
March 29 2016 15:09 GMT
#132
On March 29 2016 23:34 The_Templar wrote:
Only the first two are made by blizzard and they have a normal number of rocks.

So Blizzard isn't responsible for the maps that they add to the pool now?

On March 29 2016 23:34 opisska wrote:
No, they do not. Long-lived maps are a terrible thing and pros can be pros exactly as well when the maps are rotating completely every couple of months.

Yeah you're right, everyone hates Dust 2/Summoner's Rift/Fighting Spirit etc. why won't they just die already?
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
March 29 2016 15:26 GMT
#133
On March 30 2016 00:09 BaronVonOwn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 29 2016 23:34 opisska wrote:
No, they do not. Long-lived maps are a terrible thing and pros can be pros exactly as well when the maps are rotating completely every couple of months.

Yeah you're right, everyone hates Dust 2/Summoner's Rift/Fighting Spirit etc. why won't they just die already?


We had that in SC2. Daybreak, Overgrowth, Antiga Shipyard, to name a few prominent ones. People were complaining about them 24/7 because they were around for so long.

Experimental maps are fine, I'd even say they are great. But blizzard needs to switch them more often, the approach to give nearly any map two seasons of playtime is not good for those. We had Orbital and Lerilak for a year or so. Now Prion gets a second season despite being despised greatly. Same was true for the end of HotS.
They should try to get 2-3 standard maps in there that are supposed to stay for 2 seasons, every other map can be experimental but should be switched after a season unless it has become decently popular like Dusk Towers or Ulrena. (2 of the 3 most popular maps from TLO's reddit poll from yesterday)
Alluton
Profile Joined February 2015
Finland113 Posts
March 29 2016 15:50 GMT
#134
As a toss player it feels like besides Dusk towers and maybe prion(in PvT) I am always supposed to pull some all-in or cheese to have a chance to win.Also KCK looks like a PvZ joke.
wjat
Profile Joined August 2015
385 Posts
March 29 2016 16:59 GMT
#135
I feel those maps add to much randomness in the game instead of bringing diversity.

What do you guys think?

In my opinion,

Frozen temple: That choke is terrible... (blink, reapers...)
Ruins of Endion: Bad copy of habitation station.
Invaders LE: Would be good if Cross position. But hey, what about no cross at all?
KCK: If you want to eat chicken go to KFC, if you want to eat cheese go to KCK.

-"We want to make LotV a more dynamic game by forcing players to expand faster! but wait, here is the joke: they can't expand,
-"They can't expand?"
-"Not at all. how awesome is that?"
-"Best idea ever."
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
March 29 2016 17:34 GMT
#136
On March 30 2016 01:59 wjat wrote:
I feel those maps add to much randomness in the game instead of bringing diversity.

What do you guys think?

In my opinion,

Frozen temple: That choke is terrible... (blink, reapers...)
Ruins of Endion: Bad copy of habitation station.
Invaders LE: Would be good if Cross position. But hey, what about no cross at all?
KCK: If you want to eat chicken go to KFC, if you want to eat cheese go to KCK.

-"We want to make LotV a more dynamic game by forcing players to expand faster! but wait, here is the joke: they can't expand,
-"They can't expand?"
-"Not at all. how awesome is that?"
-"Best idea ever."


Funny, I was just thinking that. With all this emphasis on taking more bases in LotV, blizzard is sure making it difficult to take more bases.
Cereal
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55467 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-29 18:04:31
March 29 2016 17:52 GMT
#137
So is there any good reason for cross spawns to be disabled on Invader? The distances on vertical/horizontal spawns aren't that long. By air the horizontal spawns are really close, actually (close enough that a Terran in diamond league tried 2-port banshee in TvT against me).

It's also hard to take 3rd and 4th bases and the main base is so small you can't even fit the majority of your infrastructure in there (sensibily) as a Terran. And the map it's supposed to replace with "better execution" (Central Protocol) had cross spawns enabled.

They had all spawns enabled on Ruins of Seras (an even bigger map), so I don't see why you'd disable cross on Invader. I think it would actually help the map. I've yet to play a macro game on it.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
TedBurtle
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Belarus201 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-29 18:02:44
March 29 2016 18:01 GMT
#138
On March 29 2016 19:09 plouer wrote:
a link to delete korhal from the map pool :

https://www.change.org/p/blizzard-entertainment-replace-korhal-carnage-knockout-le-with-a-real-map

this map is "i think" a all-in map where you cannot secure correctly any base

haha :D dat petition
Maybe, maybe, but if i got it right, it's like 4 spawns, because at start, there is 3 pings on places where enemy can spawn, so scenarios is preety fun....but i dont like this map in PvZ...
Unbeatable Protoss
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
March 29 2016 18:33 GMT
#139
Guess another season break for me, going well so far. Got so much more time for other things.
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
Grippe87
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden59 Posts
March 29 2016 19:19 GMT
#140
Invader LE makes absolutely no sense. There's no cross spawn possibility... wat? Yet close by air on a big map. why?
breaker1328
Profile Joined March 2016
Canada295 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-30 00:33:30
March 30 2016 00:31 GMT
#141
On March 30 2016 04:19 Grippe87 wrote:
Invader LE makes absolutely no sense. There's no cross spawn possibility... wat? Yet close by air on a big map. why?


Yeah, I don't get it either. After playing a few games on it, it's gonna be on permanent veto for the season. Korhal looks like it might be a fun map for team games or a free for all or something but other than that I don't see it's value after playing it a few times as well. So that one is also on veto.

I'm enjoying Endion and Frozen Temple though.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
March 30 2016 01:12 GMT
#142
Is anyone else getting weird lighting on Ruins of Endion? Like there's a lot of bloom? It's an okay map otherwise though.

I'm really not sure if I like Invader though. Something about it feels so off. There's way too much useless dead space in the middle that has absolutely no purpose because cross-positions are disabled.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
breaker1328
Profile Joined March 2016
Canada295 Posts
March 30 2016 03:00 GMT
#143
On March 30 2016 10:12 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Is anyone else getting weird lighting on Ruins of Endion? Like there's a lot of bloom? It's an okay map otherwise though.

I'm really not sure if I like Invader though. Something about it feels so off. There's way too much useless dead space in the middle that has absolutely no purpose because cross-positions are disabled.


My main issue with it is the itty bitty main bases. I've had no graphics issues with Ruins of Endion. Although all of my graphics settings are low.
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