With the new Ladder season comes a new map pool! But before the maps enter the fray on Ladder, they will be available for testing in Custom Games starting today. Read on for more of our philosophy on maps.
1v1
Thank you everyone for working towards pushing map diversity through really distinct maps. As we’ve discussed many times before, the primary goal of map diversity is to mix up strategies and build orders—when playing online as well as when viewing tournaments. It’s a much better experience to be able to explore various strategies by making each map as unique and different as possible compared to other maps in the pool. For map cuts, the obvious three to cut are the oldest maps, Orbital Shipyard, Lerilak Crest, and Ruins of Seras. The last map we decided to cut was Central Protocol, the weakest map out of the remaining four.
With that said, let’s talk about the unique features of each new map going into 1v1.
(2) Frozen Temple
This is one of the map layouts that we discussed with the community a couple months ago. This map features an easily defended main attack path. A small ramp leads down to the center path that players can easily build structures and send units to defend. Once this is taken care of, the main avenues of attack will be the farther ground paths. We’re hoping to see a good mix of positional play around the center of the map as well as mobile or air units being a bit more effective in utilizing the far paths.
(2) Ruins of Endion
This is the second map that came from the many community discussions asking “Are there ways to slowly push a more island-like map, without making an actual island map?” Destructible Rock Towers right outside of your natural expansion can cut off all ground paths to your base, and provide up to four bases that you can secure while watching over the blocked-off paths. We will evaluate how something like this works, and then maybe push the idea further in the future.
(4) Invader LE
This is the map we also discussed as being a potential replacement to Central Protocol. The main similarity is that the third base is much more difficult to take than other maps. The improvement we believe Invader has to compensate for this disadvantage is that the fourth base is much easier to take once the third is secured. We’re excited to see how this map turns out.
(8) Korhal Carnage Knockout LE
The main cool factor of this map looks to be the fact that Destructible Rocks and Rock Tower usage will be critical both on offense and defense. For example, if the back door rocks to the main base aren’t broken at the correct time, it could be very difficult to stop harassment attacks. On the flip side, we liked the fact that there is a Rock Tower that can be broken very close by, so holding that location is much easier. Overall, this map really pushes the boundaries of heavy strategic usage of Destructible Rocks and Rock Tower mechanics, so we’re very interested in seeing how the maps turn out.
Team Maps
For team maps, our main focus was to create overall good diversity on a per format basis, and we also wanted to make sure that each map doesn’t become too complicated, especially if the formats were bigger. There are so many more variables in team games due to more players being involved, so we feel that it’s important to not overdo the complexity.
2v2
(4) Magma Mines
This map is a close quarters air fortress style map where players will have a fairly easy time coordinating with their allies. We expect that players can play a straight forward macro game on this map.
(8) Mobius Facility XX-1
By introducing multiple spawn points, we hope to bring in the importance of scouting and reacting gameplay that we have on 1v1 to 2v2. As there is a lot of fun to be had in terms of scouting the opponent’s location before committing to a strategic decision, we wanted to create a bigger map again.
3v3
(6) New Richmond
This is a map where all players start separated, and more aggressive play will be rewarded. The center of the map is the main (and only) attack path, so gaining control of that location will be important. We feel that we were a bit low on this type of map for 3v3, so we wanted to create a fun map that can fill this slot.
(6) Slaying Fields
This map features one of the players gaining easy access to a High Yield base as the natural expansion, and other players have potential High Yield bases that they can utilize. We hope to have a lot of interaction and engagements at these key locations.
4v4
(8) Mobius Facility XX-1
This is a 4v4 map where two sets of two players start together, and the other teammates start separated. Depending on which teammate started next to you, players will have to plan their strategy accordingly.
(8) Void Zone
This map is unique in that three of the players start in the same fortress, but the rush distance to the opposing team’s three players is quite close. On the other hand, the separated players per team have a really far attack path. What makes things more interesting is that the main path leading to allies can be blocked off by breaking Rock Towers. We hope to have some cool situations that arise from such a unique map.
We look forward to seeing what kind of unique strategies players are capable of on these new maps. Thank you for your time and we’ll see you on Ladder!
Frozen Temple and Ruins of Endion is absolutely gorgeous imo I kinda thought KCK was made as a troll map, but it's visually beautiful. Let's see how this map turns out to be Invader is also cool as well I think all in all I think Blizz is being overproductive today
My thoughts: We will live with the team maps. 3v3 ones look nice, not really the 4v4 ones or 2v2 ones. I'm very disappointed Blizzard had a huge selection of excellent community maps (see here) and they went with one of the less inspired Avex maps and Korhal Carnage Knockout (which is pretty old and designed for HotS). These four are still a step up from the last season, but could be much better.
On March 25 2016 05:28 NinjaToss wrote: Frozen Temple and Ruins of Endion is absolutely gorgeous imo I kinda thought KCK was made as a troll map, but it's visually beautiful. Let's see how this map turns out to be Invader is also cool as well I think all in all I think Blizz is being overproductive today
Funny, the two you really like are actually blizzard-made . They've gotten better.
On March 25 2016 05:45 SmykuToronto wrote: I know it's impossible but I kind of wish there would be a close spawn possibility on Korhal Carnage. Just cuz I'm an asshole.
SGTK and I played it a while ago. It was close spawns, and sometimes this stuff slips past Blizzard
Can't wait to try them all (at least the 1vs1) on ladder and see how they play out ! First glance though, pretty sure I'm not gonna like the 8 player 1vs1 one.
I hope I'm not the only one that is very underwhelmed by some of these.
Frozen Temple looks great visually, but in practice I'm very concerned with the location of third bases. With rocks broken there are four different attack paths to it, as opposed to the one or two of many of the current maps. Invader has the same issue with extremely difficult third bases. Unfortunately this will probably lead towards skewed winrates again for races that have a much easier time taking a quick third and force races that can't expand as fast into a lot of two base all-ins to try and win on those maps.
Endion is kind of the opposite. I can see it being a very Protoss favored map instead since Stargate-into-third builds will be amazing with that close air distance and protected third and fourth base locations.
And KCK could be cool, but those main base locations at 3/6/9/12 instead of corner spots are gonna be an absolute bitch to defend from drops. I had also hoped that we'd finally realized that backdoor rocks are always terrible, but apparently they haven't put down that kool-aid yet.
Endion reminds me of Ulrena, minus the close rush distance but still with the close air. Then again there's the possibility of ballsy as hell Gangnam terran at the central gold base.
Genuinely surprised Korhal Carnage got picked instead of some of the other fantastic designs, but here's hoping they appear next season or at other events.
Frozen Temple looks pretty bad for taking 3rd/4th bases.
Ruins of Endion air distances is going to make that a rough map I think. Airtoss should enjoy that one, with the liberator buffs maybe T wont have a huge field-day, but drops could be brutal if an army ever leaves the base.
Invader, I have no idea. I think if air spawns are allowed, similar thoughts to Endion. Close ground and cross seem not so bad though. Are those light-bridges able to be crossed?
KCK is the kind of map that makes me glad to be a spectator not a player. GL on that one ya'll, seems like whack-a-mole.
On March 25 2016 06:25 NonY wrote: What are the spawn rules for KCK? Surely it's not any possible combo with 8 possible spawn points?
Seeker is possibly wrong. SetGuitarsToKill and I played the map version that was submitted to Blizzard and we spawned right next to each other (in the same quadrant), so presumably Blizzard was working with a version that had all spawns enabled. I dunno if they fixed that.
Frozen Temple seems okay at a glance. I'm not sure why they want the Ruins of Endion spawns to be so close by air--we already have Ulrena. The fact that they chose Invader because it has a very difficult to hold third is perplexing. The thirds of Frozen Temple and Korhal Carnage Knockout are already on the less easy to hold side of the spectrum, so I'm not sure we needed to fill that niche. And Korhal Carnage Knockout is Korhal Carnage Knockout.
Did they change the mains of KCK to weaken siege tank liberator abuse? Because if not this map will be even rougher to play on.
Those maps look decent overall, though I don't get why Invader disables cross and not close by air. I'm fed up with close by air maps and we're getting some more of those Scrap Station like maps.
Don't like Frozen Temple, it looks plain, boring and the third and 4th bases are weirdly placed and look like they don't contribute to a good gameflow. I don't expect most of these to become alltime classics, but I'm definitely looking forward to trying them.
On March 25 2016 07:51 sparklyresidue wrote: Is changing number of gases per base not a thing to ever exist for sc2? Just curious. Maps look decent.
Not for ladder maps unfortunately. Blizzard inexplicably still requires standard bases. Outside ladder it happens from time to time. The GSL version of daybreak's central bases had 6 mineral patches and a single rich geyser, but the ladder version had normal bases.
On March 25 2016 08:16 Elentos wrote: I look at Ruins of Endion and all I think about is building a factory and a starport outside of my base, as close by air as possible.
As a Zerg, do you not drop all-in on this map every time you meet a Protoss here?
Ling drops look slightly worse on this map than Ulrena. Ling-drops are still probably extremely strong.
edit: It's hard to evaluate exactly how strong ling-drops are compared to Ulrena without seeing games. The main/natural layout is less favourable for ling-drops, ling-drops are more scoutable on this map, and the ground reinforcement distance is longer. The strength of ling drops on this map is somewhere between viable and Ulrena at any rate.
I absolutely love all the low ground natural expansions. It'll probably be rough going into it at first for everyone, but I'm excited to see what comes out of it!
i really hope they fix kck to spawn the way the map developer intended it to be (cross quadrant). would be an abomination if ladder started and they didn't patch things in time.
On March 25 2016 09:26 GTR wrote: i really hope they fix kck to spawn the way the map developer intended it to be (cross quadrant). would be an abomination if ladder started and they didn't patch things in time.
I just loaded up the map in the editor and it looks like teams are setup to be cross quadrant only, so I'm hoping once it actually get released online it'll be that way.
get rid of ulrena already, especially if you're adding Ruins of E, which has that very close air distance. Also I'm worried about close air in Invader as well. Too much close air!!! Frozen Temple looks promising. Its simple and direct, although it relies on rock formations which is annoying. Hopefully we get good games on all of these eh!
give us all new maps you stupid fucks. nobody wants to play these old ones. why on earth would you think keeping 3 and putting in 4 new would be enough?
They would really put a 8-player map in 1v1 ladder? I even hated the randomness of 4-player map. Oh well, I guess it's time to take a break for 3 months I guess.
Most of these maps including 2v2 have really close cross spawns by air just like Ruins of serras or Ulrena and I also question the choice of keeping Ulrena when we already have Ruins of Endion (which is basically a new and better version of Ulrena)... Actually, is it just me or most of these maps all share a similar pattern of close cross spawns/fast drop locations ? I do hope some spawns are disabled, cross quadrant would make more sense...
The 3v3 ones well looks like all your teamates are separate and also close by air lol just sayin... Frozen temple and Invader do look nice tho I suppose...
I'm fucking gutted that after taking in all those submissions, they really did just make two more of their own. How is that the best outcome for them? For players? For anyone? How can you look at Lightning Eater and think, you know what, not good enough, then make Ruins of Endion, and think, oh good that will do. Is it control issues?
What I want out of this, at this point, is complete open transparent communication directly with their internal mapmakers, and with the people on the balance team who choose the internal maps. What are they thinking, what do they see that we obviously don't, and why the fuck don't they just let the obviously more-talented and inventive mapmakers in the community do their work for them? can you imagine the fucking hype of putting out a poll in battle-net for new maps? or giving one slot to a TLMC every season, etc etc, so many options.
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote: Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote: Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.
some people actually like experimental maps (see: me). the problem is they don't rotate them out fast enough.
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote: Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.
you want 7 standard maps? Then I wish I have 6 vetoes because there is no reason to play 7 same/standard maps.
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote: Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.
you want 7 standard maps? Then I wish I have 6 vetoes because there is no reason to play 7 same/standard maps.
So could we get 2 standard maps then? I think that'd be a decent start. Ulrena isn't standard, Ruins of Endion isn't standard, Invader isn't standard, KCK isn't standard, Prion Terraces isn't standard. Dusk Towers has a backdoor base and a pretty easy 3rd, that one isn't standard either.
We've not had a single actual standard map in the pool for the entirety of LotV. I think it's about time we get something in the spirits of King Sejong Station or Overgrowth so we can actually see how LotV plays out on such maps. The gimmicks just distract.
I mean, there's merit to having weird maps in the pool. But that doesn't mean the entire pool should consist of weird maps.
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote: Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.
you want 7 standard maps? Then I wish I have 6 vetoes because there is no reason to play 7 same/standard maps.
So could we get 2 standard maps then? I think that'd be a decent start. Ulrena isn't standard, Ruins of Endion isn't standard, Invader isn't standard, KCK isn't standard, Prion Terraces isn't standard. Dusk Towers has a backdoor base and a pretty easy 3rd, that one isn't standard either.
We've not had a single actual standard map in the pool for the entirety of LotV.
Looks like "standard" became a "non-standard and unique"
I am mostly disappointed that they didn't switch out all the maps. If they do a new season without switching any maps at all they should at least switch all the maps after 2 seasons.
I mean Dusk Towers may be a good map but I'm so bored of it, I just don't want to play or see it anymore. Does it sound weird that of all the maps in the new map pool I'll definitely veto Dusk towers first?
On March 25 2016 16:35 Infiiiniity wrote: Oh wow. I know my vetos for next season. I don't quite understand why Blizz push these "strange" maps so much.
you want 7 standard maps? Then I wish I have 6 vetoes because there is no reason to play 7 same/standard maps.
standard isn't synonymous to "the same", and frankly, the best map pools we've had on the ladder (Overgrowth, KSS and the friends) only shined because they had multiple normal, macro-oriented maps
They couldn't push 2 of their own maps last season, and just leave this one to the community? There were 0 new maps last season, and it couldn't take that long for the team to come up with just 2 maps. I did 3 maps in 3 weeks by myself. The way Blizzard was talking about it, I was expecting them to look for community maps with the features they described. Varied attack paths is something any good mapmaker practices regularly, it's not something Blizzard magically discovered on their own. Look at Cloud Kingdom for God's sake, and that was how many years ago? Good to know that after all that talk, half the maps are Blizzard's anyway.
Frozen Temple looks excellent, I always liked the look of maps with thin valleys in the center but the maps with this feature before were huge maps, and besides that were barely played at a high level. This map pretty much forces the point, somewhat like Ulrena where there's a one-unit wide pathway that's used in just about every game. Other than that it reminds me of Neo Planet S, but with destructible rocks.
Ruins of Endion is kind of unremarkable, it's another experiment with close spawns by air. More rocks. Kind of on the fence about this one.
KCK does look f'n crazy and just looking at it I want to play some games there. The pro version won't use all 8 spawns will it?
On March 26 2016 06:12 Dabble wrote: Frozen Temple looks excellent, I always liked the look of maps with thin valleys in the center but the maps with this feature before were huge maps, and besides that were barely played at a high level. This map pretty much forces the point, somewhat like Ulrena where there's a one-unit wide pathway that's used in just about every game. Other than that it reminds me of Neo Planet S, but with destructible rocks.
Ruins of Endion is kind of unremarkable, it's another experiment with close spawns by air. More rocks. Kind of on the fence about this one.
KCK does look f'n crazy and just looking at it I want to play some games there. The pro version won't use all 8 spawns will it?
From what I gather, on KCK your opponent is always supposed to spawn on one of the 3 locations that's the furthest from where you spawned.
On March 26 2016 07:08 royalroadweed wrote: I'm a little disappointed in Frozen Temple. I was expecting a modern version of lost temple similiar to what Metropolis was to Metalopolis.
Nope, that's just how Blizzard names their maps, basically a description of what it looks like. Is anyone familiar with Ice Cliffs?
Loved them all, at least for the first look. We actually have to play on them to judge. Map changes are always exiting as it creates new metas and offers something new to watch.
Frozen is terrain abuse heaven for terran. Don't enjoy the no choice of third, though. You can take the far away one, but it's siegable from the xel naga tower.
Invader has some crazy positional play too. Also the third/fourth can both be sieged by libs without vision, so put an overlord up there. Other than that, seemed like a pretty normal map?
Ruins is .. something. Reapers seem to get nat to nat quicker than other maps. Dropping pool at 17 instead of 18 makes up for that. There's going to be a lot of breaking the rocks at the gold and pushing through there. It's going to suck.
Ruins looks like a nice map for positional play. At least to some degree. Could be a good map to test not having tankivacs. Can someone who played it confirm? If it just wasn't for the close air distance though...
10% "as a professional map artisan i find these BLIZZAAHHD maps pitiful and wretched. what curs they are not to offer me a salary to create all of their maps. i must retreat into my mapmaking lair and brood." 15% "finally, new maps! they look cool! woo!" 15% "this was your last chance, blizzard!!! you fucked it up again!!! these idiots never learn!!! aargh!!!" 20% "they removed THOSE maps but not the map OP RACE always BEATS ME ON?!" 20% "i play protoss and one of these maps has a kinda-difficult third base, therefore i'm uninstalling and switching to heroes of the storm for this season" 20% "i play zerg and one of these maps has a kinda-difficult fourth base, therefore i'm switching to protoss"
in seriousness: frozen temple looks cool. ruins of endion just looks like another ROCKS AND GOLD BASES map/rotated ulrena. invader looks decent, but i think it will suffer from "80% of the map is never used in normal games" syndrome. korhal carnage could be interesting too, but gimmicky two base strategies might be too strong at higher levels.
On March 26 2016 11:40 InfCereal wrote:There's going to be a lot of breaking the rocks at the gold and pushing through there. It's going to suck.
i imagine the position below the cliff at the natural will be great for bio tank pushes. it's like the position outside the third at orbital shipyard with a much shorter rush distance, and with medivacs spotting tanks will be able to hit rallying units in two or three different areas, which is terrifying. the base with the rocks on it (which zerg will never take against an aggressive terran) also provides natural simcity, which obviously favors terran. with close air and no ulrena rush distance zerg has to go 2 base spire, so i see a lot of zvt on that map being 2 base spire into defending a push while using mutas to try to harass the reinforcements/snipe tankivacs while terran is setting up
I hate when David Kim speaks about maps and mentions diversity, distinct maps, different build orders and strategies..
Creativity stemming from bad/weird map design is something that doesn't exist in sc2 esports. Everything you see in tournament games has been done countless times before on ladder and probably thought of by someone else before the player uses it themselves.
It's just an excuse to use gimmicky & bad maps that force players to take gambles.
We've had to deal with the worst map pool in a long time since beta, and I wouldn't be surprised if matters only got worse.
I already knew David Kim gave up on the ideal of trying to create the best multiplayer experience possible for the higher end of the skill spectrum for players/pro-gamers a long time ago and is just getting by doing the bare minimum..
But nowadays it's like the rest of blizzard gave up as well. (WCS, Psione gave up trying to improve things, etc..)
On March 26 2016 20:30 brickrd wrote: another blizzard map thread
10% "as a professional map artisan i find these BLIZZAAHHD maps pitiful and wretched. what curs they are not to offer me a salary to create all of their maps. i must retreat into my mapmaking lair and brood."
You might be speaking in satire here, but I'm done with all this nonsense. I poured 5 years of work into making maps for this game, and while I rarely saw the success I knew I could pull off, that never mattered to me, I loved doing it, it came from a love of this game, I adored the scene and the maps. As long as somebody, anybody, got recognized, I was happy. My love for this game has been dying however, every time Blizzard talks about what they think is cool, and not what makes the game fun to play, my love for the game dies a little more.
There's a vision Blizzard has for this game, and they think whatever it is, it's really cool, but I can't stand it, their vision shows in the way they control everything, and the way they choose their maps. I know what the community can produce and has produced, I was there, so seeing what really gets Blizzard's stamp of approval is simply disheartening, it robs me of the will to keep doing it. I got into SC2 because it was a fun game, not because it was cool to watch. Remove the word cool from the English dictionary and Blizzard loses more from SC2 than I ever could. My level of disappointment approaches that of an addicted gambler, who just doesn't know when to quit, but there's one difference.
Invader is so painful as a Zerg when it's not cross or close air TT. It's actually a ridiculously small rush distance and it's impossible to take a third. I think this should get patched out? Feels just like close spawn Metalopolis...I'll keep playing games but it's brutal that both of your thirds are close to the enemy...
Invader's hella awkward, lol. Such a big map and so choked and convoluted. It naturally drives you towards the middle, which is super painful for a race like Zerg. In TvT it's absolutely crucial that you get out on the map and secure the bottom lane (I've only gotten close / close air spawns), which makes you super vulnerable to drops because of how windy the map is, lol.
Lots of abusive siege tank positions since the main is so small. Actually hella hard to fit all your production in your main TT. The map definitely favors P/T vs Z because of how staged the thirds are, how convoluted the map is, and how it naturally drives you towards the middle of the map.
The fact that the map is so convoluted wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so damn big, lol.
On March 28 2016 16:59 Qwyn wrote: Invader is so painful as a Zerg when it's not cross or close air TT. It's actually a ridiculously small rush distance and it's impossible to take a third. I think this should get patched out? Feels just like close spawn Metalopolis...I'll keep playing games but it's brutal that both of your thirds are close to the enemy...
Invader's hella awkward, lol. Such a big map and so choked and convoluted. It naturally drives you towards the middle, which is super painful for a race like Zerg. In TvT it's absolutely crucial that you get out on the map and secure the bottom lane (I've only gotten close / close air spawns), which makes you super vulnerable to drops because of how windy the map is, lol.
Lots of abusive siege tank positions since the main is so small. Actually hella hard to fit all your production in your main TT. The map definitely favors P/T vs Z because of how staged the thirds are, how convoluted the map is, and how it naturally drives you towards the middle of the map.
The fact that the map is so convoluted wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so damn big, lol.
On March 28 2016 16:59 Qwyn wrote: Invader is so painful as a Zerg when it's not cross or close air TT. It's actually a ridiculously small rush distance and it's impossible to take a third. I think this should get patched out? Feels just like close spawn Metalopolis...I'll keep playing games but it's brutal that both of your thirds are close to the enemy...
Invader's hella awkward, lol. Such a big map and so choked and convoluted. It naturally drives you towards the middle, which is super painful for a race like Zerg. In TvT it's absolutely crucial that you get out on the map and secure the bottom lane (I've only gotten close / close air spawns), which makes you super vulnerable to drops because of how windy the map is, lol.
Lots of abusive siege tank positions since the main is so small. Actually hella hard to fit all your production in your main TT. The map definitely favors P/T vs Z because of how staged the thirds are, how convoluted the map is, and how it naturally drives you towards the middle of the map.
The fact that the map is so convoluted wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so damn big, lol.
On March 28 2016 16:59 Qwyn wrote: Invader is so painful as a Zerg when it's not cross or close air TT. It's actually a ridiculously small rush distance and it's impossible to take a third. I think this should get patched out? Feels just like close spawn Metalopolis...I'll keep playing games but it's brutal that both of your thirds are close to the enemy...
Invader's hella awkward, lol. Such a big map and so choked and convoluted. It naturally drives you towards the middle, which is super painful for a race like Zerg. In TvT it's absolutely crucial that you get out on the map and secure the bottom lane (I've only gotten close / close air spawns), which makes you super vulnerable to drops because of how windy the map is, lol.
Lots of abusive siege tank positions since the main is so small. Actually hella hard to fit all your production in your main TT. The map definitely favors P/T vs Z because of how staged the thirds are, how convoluted the map is, and how it naturally drives you towards the middle of the map.
The fact that the map is so convoluted wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so damn big, lol.
2 base muta is really strong on invader
2 base muta is never strong in lotv.
try it, the map is huge, has weird terrain you can abuse and the third is awkward to take. it's a muta map
On March 25 2016 17:37 WGT-Baal wrote: Only 2 new maps for 2v2? That s disappointing. The 3v3 maps look fun though
I never enjoyed 2v2... 3v3 is my "try hard" team matchup 4v4 is my "fuck it, proxy hatch their nat"
I have the same approach to 4v4. I rarely play 3v3 though and 2v2 is still fun with friends, but the maps are pretty bad and/or havr been there forever
On March 28 2016 21:26 Sif_ wrote: crap, is 3rax reaper dead with central protocol and orbital shipyard gone? :'(
I think it should work on most of the new maps just fine. I haven't gotten around to testing it, but it shouldn't be bad on Frozen Temple and KCK. And if you can jump up and down the cliffs right between the bases (where the gold is) on Ruins of Endion, it's probably broken on that map.
On March 28 2016 23:32 opisska wrote: Is it known which maps are going to be replaced by those new ones and which are going to stay? I can't find this information anywhere.
I have no idea about the team maps, dunno why they don't mention that in the announcement. For 1v1, Dusk Towers, Prion Terraces and Ulrena stayed (oh god why?).
On March 28 2016 23:32 opisska wrote: Is it known which maps are going to be replaced by those new ones and which are going to stay? I can't find this information anywhere.
I have no idea about the team maps, dunno why they don't mention that in the announcement. For 1v1, Dusk Towers, Prion Terraces and Ulrena stayed (oh god why?).
Thanks. Prion and Ulrena, heh? Haven't they heard enough hate Dusk Towers seems to be the new Daybreak though, a solid choice.
The team maps, I am really curious - I now play virtually only 2v2s and the map pool really makes it or breaks it completely - some seasons it is great, some not so much ... and it's not really immediately obvious to me when looking at the maps which will be good. Obviously separated bases are complete shit, but beyond that, some maps just turn out to be really impossible to expand on beyond a natural. Well, let's see.
On March 29 2016 01:26 sAsImre wrote: Except Khoral a fun map pool so far.
I like Korhal the most out of the all maps here, looks cheesy but it's a decent macro map.
e: btw we found that 4 lings can kill the rock towers on Ruins of Endion before your 3rd hatchery finishes in ZvZ. Expecting a ton of funny builds there.
I think the concept behind Frozen Temple is really cool but unfortunately air units and transports are so powerful that I'm not sure if strategic positioning and terrain matter very much in SC2.
On March 29 2016 01:26 sAsImre wrote: Except Khoral a fun map pool so far.
I like Korhal the most out of the all maps here, looks cheesy but it's a decent macro map.
e: btw we found that 4 lings can kill the rock towers on Ruins of Endion before your 3rd hatchery finishes in ZvZ. Expecting a ton of funny builds there.
I'd like Khoral if walling my main was decently possible.
So far my experience, recently I play Random, my best race is Terran, worst is Protoss. Frozen Temple - I don't think I will veto it. Not my favorite, but still, quite ok. It's rather standard map. Ruins of Endion - Same as above. With one exception, it's bit weird :D Invader LE - My veto. Small main, so not enough place for buildings, 3rd hard to take. Nope, nope! I really don't like it. Korhal Carnage Knockout LE - such a weird map! So far I had fun with it, however playing against Protoss is annoying. All sorts of proxies, air play and so on.
I don't care about team maps. I used to play a lot of team games in WoL and in HotS. In LotV I stopped as it is always the same (ALWAYS!) - Protoss going mass air, and you have to counter it or die trying. No fun in this for me.
After playing these, heavily struggling to play ZvT on the new maps. . Maybe it just takes some time getting used to. Not to say the old maps weren't Zerg biased, but it seems like quite the shift...
Then again, i'll watch 2 months from now how Z is even more dominant than ever due to the maps...
invader is a complete nightmare to play as terran because the main base is so small it's impossible to fit all your production in there without blocking your units
Mech is basically unplayable on all of these maps, if not worse on these maps than the previous map pool. With that being said, i do not even understand how Protoss is playable vs Zerg on any of these maps at all.
The maps all heavily favor Zerg from what i've seen in every match-up, P is massively favored versus T, and in general the new maps are really bad imo.
A lot of them have massive amounts of rocks everywhere very arbitrarily...like one map has two sets of rocks...on your main ramp...what? Why?
I'd rather play a bo50 on ulrena than on these new maps =/ @_@ Final thought: yeh, these are even worse for mech - not too happy.
also...Why is there a 4v4 player in the 1v1 map pool? Does blizzard associate "macro map" with "MAKE IT GIGANTIC!"
A map isn't automatically a macro map just because it's gigantic.
Pretty much agree with kiwikaki:
On March 29 2016 10:39 KiWiKaKi wrote: I feel like blizzard is trolling us with these maps
I kinda like frozen temple and ruins of endion. Invader and KCK on the other hand are pretty terrible.
Unique maps are not necessarily bad but I just wish we had at least 4 standard maps in the pool so you can veto the unique ones if you don't want to play them. That would make everyone happy. But making the community happy doesn't seem to be a high priority from blizzard unfortunately
On March 29 2016 20:45 Charoisaur wrote: I kinda like frozen temple and ruins of endion. Invader and KCK on the other hand are pretty terrible.
Unique maps are not necessarily bad but I just wish we had at least 4 standard maps in the pool so you can veto the unique ones if you don't want to play them. That would make everyone happy. But making the community happy doesn't seem to be a high priority from blizzard unfortunately
4 is way too much, but I wouldn't mind having one or two at some point. Maybe frozen temple and ruins of endion could be such though.
On March 29 2016 23:21 BaronVonOwn wrote: While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.
Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.
The maps with a lot of rocks weren't created by blizzard.
On March 29 2016 23:21 BaronVonOwn wrote: While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.
Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.
Only the first two are made by blizzard and they have a normal number of rocks.
On March 29 2016 23:21 BaronVonOwn wrote: While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.
Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.
No, they do not. Long-lived maps are a terrible thing and pros can be pros exactly as well when the maps are rotating completely every couple of months.
On March 29 2016 23:21 BaronVonOwn wrote: While we're being negative, Blizzard is putting destructible rocks into maps like a teenybopper uses lens flares on Instagram. Holy shit... slow down.
Seriously though I like the maps and the experimentation but of course there needs to be 1-3 long-lived LOTV-standard maps for the pro/esports people.
The maps with a lot of rocks weren't created by blizzard.
They were picked by Blizz from a big list of possibilites tho.
On March 29 2016 23:34 The_Templar wrote: Only the first two are made by blizzard and they have a normal number of rocks.
So Blizzard isn't responsible for the maps that they add to the pool now?
On March 29 2016 23:34 opisska wrote: No, they do not. Long-lived maps are a terrible thing and pros can be pros exactly as well when the maps are rotating completely every couple of months.
Yeah you're right, everyone hates Dust 2/Summoner's Rift/Fighting Spirit etc. why won't they just die already?
On March 29 2016 23:34 opisska wrote: No, they do not. Long-lived maps are a terrible thing and pros can be pros exactly as well when the maps are rotating completely every couple of months.
Yeah you're right, everyone hates Dust 2/Summoner's Rift/Fighting Spirit etc. why won't they just die already?
We had that in SC2. Daybreak, Overgrowth, Antiga Shipyard, to name a few prominent ones. People were complaining about them 24/7 because they were around for so long.
Experimental maps are fine, I'd even say they are great. But blizzard needs to switch them more often, the approach to give nearly any map two seasons of playtime is not good for those. We had Orbital and Lerilak for a year or so. Now Prion gets a second season despite being despised greatly. Same was true for the end of HotS. They should try to get 2-3 standard maps in there that are supposed to stay for 2 seasons, every other map can be experimental but should be switched after a season unless it has become decently popular like Dusk Towers or Ulrena. (2 of the 3 most popular maps from TLO's reddit poll from yesterday)
As a toss player it feels like besides Dusk towers and maybe prion(in PvT) I am always supposed to pull some all-in or cheese to have a chance to win.Also KCK looks like a PvZ joke.
I feel those maps add to much randomness in the game instead of bringing diversity.
What do you guys think?
In my opinion,
Frozen temple: That choke is terrible... (blink, reapers...) Ruins of Endion: Bad copy of habitation station. Invaders LE: Would be good if Cross position. But hey, what about no cross at all? KCK: If you want to eat chicken go to KFC, if you want to eat cheese go to KCK.
-"We want to make LotV a more dynamic game by forcing players to expand faster! but wait, here is the joke: they can't expand, -"They can't expand?" -"Not at all. how awesome is that?" -"Best idea ever."
On March 30 2016 01:59 wjat wrote: I feel those maps add to much randomness in the game instead of bringing diversity.
What do you guys think?
In my opinion,
Frozen temple: That choke is terrible... (blink, reapers...) Ruins of Endion: Bad copy of habitation station. Invaders LE: Would be good if Cross position. But hey, what about no cross at all? KCK: If you want to eat chicken go to KFC, if you want to eat cheese go to KCK.
-"We want to make LotV a more dynamic game by forcing players to expand faster! but wait, here is the joke: they can't expand, -"They can't expand?" -"Not at all. how awesome is that?" -"Best idea ever."
Funny, I was just thinking that. With all this emphasis on taking more bases in LotV, blizzard is sure making it difficult to take more bases.
So is there any good reason for cross spawns to be disabled on Invader? The distances on vertical/horizontal spawns aren't that long. By air the horizontal spawns are really close, actually (close enough that a Terran in diamond league tried 2-port banshee in TvT against me).
It's also hard to take 3rd and 4th bases and the main base is so small you can't even fit the majority of your infrastructure in there (sensibily) as a Terran. And the map it's supposed to replace with "better execution" (Central Protocol) had cross spawns enabled.
They had all spawns enabled on Ruins of Seras (an even bigger map), so I don't see why you'd disable cross on Invader. I think it would actually help the map. I've yet to play a macro game on it.
this map is "i think" a all-in map where you cannot secure correctly any base
haha :D dat petition Maybe, maybe, but if i got it right, it's like 4 spawns, because at start, there is 3 pings on places where enemy can spawn, so scenarios is preety fun....but i dont like this map in PvZ...
On March 30 2016 04:19 Grippe87 wrote: Invader LE makes absolutely no sense. There's no cross spawn possibility... wat? Yet close by air on a big map. why?
Yeah, I don't get it either. After playing a few games on it, it's gonna be on permanent veto for the season. Korhal looks like it might be a fun map for team games or a free for all or something but other than that I don't see it's value after playing it a few times as well. So that one is also on veto.
Is anyone else getting weird lighting on Ruins of Endion? Like there's a lot of bloom? It's an okay map otherwise though.
I'm really not sure if I like Invader though. Something about it feels so off. There's way too much useless dead space in the middle that has absolutely no purpose because cross-positions are disabled.
On March 30 2016 10:12 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Is anyone else getting weird lighting on Ruins of Endion? Like there's a lot of bloom? It's an okay map otherwise though.
I'm really not sure if I like Invader though. Something about it feels so off. There's way too much useless dead space in the middle that has absolutely no purpose because cross-positions are disabled.
My main issue with it is the itty bitty main bases. I've had no graphics issues with Ruins of Endion. Although all of my graphics settings are low.