The buff to siege tanks is good, but as others have pointed out even with the Ravager nerf it's not equivalent to the lack of pickup. That said, I kind of like charging into a siege tank line by flanking with two groups of well-spread Marauders and having SOME chance of trading efficiently, so I don't want the damage to be too strong either!

The Liberator nerf I don't get. Is it really such a problem for Zergs with their normal range? I thought the problem was when Terrans do the Nathanias build and rush to get the range upgrade. Shouldn't the nerf be the other way around, -1 to the range WITH the upgrade??

jalstar

United States8198 Posts

February 18 2016 22:18 GMT

#105

Corrosive Bile needs to be better vs mobile units (less time for the shot to land?) and worse vs immobile units (needs a damage reduction especially if siege tanks are going to be immobile)

+damage vs bio is the wrong change imo

JimmyJRaynor

Canada17614 Posts

February 18 2016 22:19 GMT

#106

On February 19 2016 07:12 Killmouse wrote:
Everything is Fine but why nerf lib Range-.- just increase the time a Little bit for mode switching

i want Terran air weakened and Terran ground strengthened.

so if they keep this Liberator change and Terran is too weak I hope they just keep buffing the Tank or some other ground unit.

Clonester

Germany2808 Posts

February 18 2016 22:20 GMT

#107

I got the perfect balance patch to make tank viable:

Each time Tank hits a target, a psy storm gets casted in that area.

All mech terrans will stop crying.

Silvana

3713 Posts

February 18 2016 22:21 GMT

#108

Speed and TY disapprove these changes.

Shuffleblade

Sweden1903 Posts

February 18 2016 22:25 GMT

#109

Terran probably needs a buff against protoss though, if the tank buff can be that much needed buff or not I don't know but if they nerf terrans crutch in TvP it gets even harder for them to survive to mid-late game vs P.

Pontius Pirate

United States1557 Posts

February 18 2016 22:27 GMT

#110

On February 19 2016 07:18 jalstar wrote:
Corrosive Bile needs to be better vs mobile units (less time for the shot to land?) and worse vs immobile units (needs a damage reduction especially if siege tanks are going to be immobile)

+damage vs bio is the wrong change imo

I actually think that it's good for it to not be too great against mobile units. However, I definitely agree with your statement that the damage against bio is the wrong change. Instead, I'd made it so that it's not so unintuitively easy to miss its targets when they're deliberately trying to dodge the shots. The radius is simply too small. I'd love to see the damage nerfed against all units, possibly by an even greater degree, in exchange for a larger radius of effect.

Or perhaps changed so that it deals 40 + 20 air, coupled with the larger radius, of course.

Poopi

France12938 Posts

February 18 2016 22:39 GMT

#111

I really really hope mech won't be buffed, it's too strong already in TvT

usopsama

6502 Posts

February 18 2016 22:44 GMT

#112

I think the Siege Tank needs a slightly bigger buff, but these changes are definitely going towards a good direction. Good job!!!

After this, we just need a discruptor nerf.

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

February 18 2016 22:48 GMT

#113

On February 19 2016 07:20 Clonester wrote:
I got the perfect balance patch to make tank viable:

Each time Tank hits a target, a psy storm gets casted in that area.

All mech terrans will stop crying.

You know the sad thing is I could think of a few Terran's that would still complain...

Vanadiel

France961 Posts

February 18 2016 22:58 GMT

#114

On February 19 2016 04:37 FireCake wrote:
Lurker is useless in ZvT
Now Ravager is useless in ZvT

YES YES YES §§§

Don't worry, Mutalisk are still... well.

I'm going to miss tankivacs, although it was problematic for TvT, they were fun to watch in the other match up.
Gotta practice nyddus and ravager all in now, not going to take a risk to lose my time against mech.

coolprogrammingstuff

906 Posts

February 18 2016 23:00 GMT

#115

On February 19 2016 04:37 FireCake wrote:
Lurker is useless in ZvT
Now Ravager is useless in ZvT

YES YES YES §§§

not getting your game casted isn't :^)

brickrd

United States4894 Posts

February 18 2016 23:03 GMT

#116

On February 19 2016 07:58 Vanadiel wrote:

Show nested quote +

muta is fine in zvt you just can't build 35 of them anymore lol.

royalroadweed

United States8301 Posts

February 18 2016 23:07 GMT

#117

I've literally been waiting for this tank buff since 2010.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

February 18 2016 23:09 GMT

#118

Ok 2 things i will write as constructive feedback as a player who's played Mech TvX for literally 95% of my SC2 games over the last 5-6 yrs that the game has been out:

a) Siege tank needs more damage to trade better. It's great blizzard is taking a step here, is it enough damage? Maybe, that's what testing is for to be honest, and if it goes live people will find out pretty fast if it really does make the tank able to hold it's ground better or not.

b) Even a bigger issue with mech...ANTI-AIR. Despite the siege tank sorta sucking...the worse problem is that mech cannot build an auto-attacking anti-air unit like the goliath to dissuade someone from just massing tempest, carrier, liberator, or broodlords.

Mech cyclones/thors need to be strengthened versus air to the point that they actually can kill tempests/carriers/brood/liberators. There previously was a thor change that might have done something like this that was randomly scrapped...

I can tell you 100% that every single mech game played at any decent level always devolves into both players spamming air units because mech can't go up to 8-10 factories and then switch production over to 8-12 goliaths like in SC1.

Along the same lines, tempests are only 4 supply. Liberators are 3 supply. Broodlords are only 4 supply...i have written already two-three long posts about how air units are way too strong in LOTV and in SC2 in general.

I honestly think blizzard has a really easy fix to the late game mass air deathball for all 3 races - increase the supply cost of all major air units in the game. What does this do? It makes it so Terran, Zerg, and Protoss ground armies in lategame always have more supply invested than an army that is pure air.

So if someone wants to turtle to mass air, the player that is making ground units is the one that inherently has more of the advantage, can push the action, and then both players are encouraged to make ground units to constantly fight and trade, rather than turtle into air units that can't be shot at by half of the ground units in the game.

Example changes;

Tempest supply cost increased to 8.
Carrier supply / BC supply increased to 8.
Broodlord supply increased to 6 (corruptor 2 supply, broodlord morph 4 supply).
Liberator supply increased to 4.
Raven supply increased to 3 (along with possible revert of some of the previous nerts in some way).
Viper supply increased to 4 (and parasitic bomb nerf hammered/removed since all these changes fix air).

If something like the above is done, we would not see air dominating every single match-up in every single game in late game.

It's just really frustrating to me as a Mech Terran that when i want to play Mech and be aggressive, i know that i basically can't be because my opponent sees i'm going mech and then starts massing tempests which invalidates every single unit i've built that's not a viking or raven.

I can show everyone here a replay pack of about 10-20+ Mech TvP that i have attempted and every single one Protoss scouts i'm "going mech" and then the game devolves into 4-10 tempests forcing me to sit in base and turtle into 15-25 vikings because there's not a single unit, including mass mine, that can fight mass tempest that has splash damage underneath. The same applies to TvT - bio Terran will just start spamming 100% liberator+viking and if you do not turtle into mass viking/raven/liberator yourself you autolose the game.

Mech needs an auto-attacking anti-air unit, and air needs to be toned down.

Superbanana

2369 Posts

February 18 2016 23:12 GMT

#119

Its a well made poll, but its important to note that the sum of all options besides "good change" are the people who are against it, for different reasons. Its also clear that "wrong" and "bad" can overlap.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

February 18 2016 23:16 GMT

#120

On February 19 2016 07:39 Poopi wrote:
I really really hope mech won't be buffed, it's too strong already in TvT

Mech is only turtle bullshit because a mech Terran can't switch their factories over to mass anti-air production because there's no auto-attacking anti-air unit in the game atm (goliaths don't exist).

99% of Mech games end up being turtling into mass viking/liberator/ravens because there is no way to dissuade your opponent from massing tempest/brood/liberator/carrier/BCS.

If a player decides to start spamming their respective OP air unit...what does a Mech Terran make to counter? Thor? Nope they suck vs massed air. Cyclones? Currently an overpriced trash unit. Mass widow mines? Hello RNGesus.

The only reason turtle mech started is because brood+infestor, and air units in general are overpowered in SC2 versus their ground counter parts.

You can even see this in ZvP where lategame always 100% goes to mass air for both players (mass tempest/carrier/void vs mass corruptor/fungal/viper/brood).