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Community Feedback Update - February 18 - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
430 CommentsPost a Reply
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SlammerSC2
Profile Joined April 2013
77 Posts
February 19 2016 07:41 GMT
#181
Cant wait to hear what Mechengineer Avilo has to say to this
pieroog
Profile Joined June 2010
Poland146 Posts
February 19 2016 07:43 GMT
#182
I am a little disappointed that there is no info on Mutas in PvZ at all. Protoss is so bound to have it countered blindly even though they can never show up which costs A LOT. The rest of tweaks seem reasonable, especially Tankivac being gone.
Isualin
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1903 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-19 08:06:55
February 19 2016 08:01 GMT
#183
I can see why they don't want tankivacs to be a thing but i think terran will be weak against some zerg timing pushes after the tank pickup removal. Because liberators in low numbers were already easy to kill with ravager shots, now tanks don't have any mobility to run away from them as well. In high numbers, it is really good for terran though.

Watching TY juggle tanks with two medivacs while defending and harassing zergs was fun
| INnoVation | The literal god TY | ByuNjwa | LRSL when? |
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
February 19 2016 08:14 GMT
#184
On February 19 2016 16:43 pieroog wrote:
I am a little disappointed that there is no info on Mutas in PvZ at all. Protoss is so bound to have it countered blindly even though they can never show up which costs A LOT. The rest of tweaks seem reasonable, especially Tankivac being gone.

By 'blind countering' you're either opening Phoenix (usually into Chargelot Archon Immortal) which provide so much value other than just being a Mutalisk deterrent, or using a Blink Stalker-based composition which is totally fine. Protoss has enough choice and nerfing the Mutalisk could make it useless in PvZ.
Asturas
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Finland587 Posts
February 19 2016 08:15 GMT
#185
Tankivac is not the best solution or a good design, but it happened. I am not sure if removing it can be balanced with some damage buffs.

I am very much against this change.

And as usually no mentioning of Ultras in TvZ. Very disappointing.
There are no boundaries, that's the final conclusion.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
February 19 2016 08:22 GMT
#186
After seeing more games, and especially TvT, I think tankivacs should go. But it remains to be seen whether the corresponding attack power buff is sufficient to compensate.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Tresher
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany404 Posts
February 19 2016 08:32 GMT
#187
On February 19 2016 08:09 avilo wrote:
Ok 2 things i will write as constructive feedback as a player who's played Mech TvX for literally 95% of my SC2 games over the last 5-6 yrs that the game has been out:

a) Siege tank needs more damage to trade better. It's great blizzard is taking a step here, is it enough damage? Maybe, that's what testing is for to be honest, and if it goes live people will find out pretty fast if it really does make the tank able to hold it's ground better or not.

b) Even a bigger issue with mech...ANTI-AIR. Despite the siege tank sorta sucking...the worse problem is that mech cannot build an auto-attacking anti-air unit like the goliath to dissuade someone from just massing tempest, carrier, liberator, or broodlords.

Mech cyclones/thors need to be strengthened versus air to the point that they actually can kill tempests/carriers/brood/liberators. There previously was a thor change that might have done something like this that was randomly scrapped...

I can tell you 100% that every single mech game played at any decent level always devolves into both players spamming air units because mech can't go up to 8-10 factories and then switch production over to 8-12 goliaths like in SC1.

Along the same lines, tempests are only 4 supply. Liberators are 3 supply. Broodlords are only 4 supply...i have written already two-three long posts about how air units are way too strong in LOTV and in SC2 in general.

I honestly think blizzard has a really easy fix to the late game mass air deathball for all 3 races - increase the supply cost of all major air units in the game. What does this do? It makes it so Terran, Zerg, and Protoss ground armies in lategame always have more supply invested than an army that is pure air.

So if someone wants to turtle to mass air, the player that is making ground units is the one that inherently has more of the advantage, can push the action, and then both players are encouraged to make ground units to constantly fight and trade, rather than turtle into air units that can't be shot at by half of the ground units in the game.

Example changes;

Tempest supply cost increased to 8.
Carrier supply / BC supply increased to 8.
Broodlord supply increased to 6 (corruptor 2 supply, broodlord morph 4 supply).
Liberator supply increased to 4.
Raven supply increased to 3 (along with possible revert of some of the previous nerts in some way).
Viper supply increased to 4 (and parasitic bomb nerf hammered/removed since all these changes fix air).

If something like the above is done, we would not see air dominating every single match-up in every single game in late game.

It's just really frustrating to me as a Mech Terran that when i want to play Mech and be aggressive, i know that i basically can't be because my opponent sees i'm going mech and then starts massing tempests which invalidates every single unit i've built that's not a viking or raven.

I can show everyone here a replay pack of about 10-20+ Mech TvP that i have attempted and every single one Protoss scouts i'm "going mech" and then the game devolves into 4-10 tempests forcing me to sit in base and turtle into 15-25 vikings because there's not a single unit, including mass mine, that can fight mass tempest that has splash damage underneath. The same applies to TvT - bio Terran will just start spamming 100% liberator+viking and if you do not turtle into mass viking/raven/liberator yourself you autolose the game.

Mech needs an auto-attacking anti-air unit, and air needs to be toned down.

All these great changes and you are still not satisfied -_- . This is a great step in the right direction of making ground Mech better. One step at a time. First make ground Mech good then we can look into the Anti-Air problem.

Seriously. Stop fucking whining.
Extreme Force
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12133 Posts
February 19 2016 08:56 GMT
#188
On February 19 2016 17:14 ZAiNs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2016 16:43 pieroog wrote:
I am a little disappointed that there is no info on Mutas in PvZ at all. Protoss is so bound to have it countered blindly even though they can never show up which costs A LOT. The rest of tweaks seem reasonable, especially Tankivac being gone.

By 'blind countering' you're either opening Phoenix (usually into Chargelot Archon Immortal) which provide so much value other than just being a Mutalisk deterrent, or using a Blink Stalker-based composition which is totally fine. Protoss has enough choice and nerfing the Mutalisk could make it useless in PvZ.

Muta switch is still a thing though, and even if you scout it, with how the chrono was nerfed you cannot get out phoenixes(which are the only hard counter to mass muta) fast enough. Mutalisk is a problem in PvZ from WoL and it didn't get any better with fast regen, that's for sure(made the phoenix much required hard counter).

It is a thing that requires attention, it's not a problem only in PvZ. Mutalisk is problem everywhere, look at the patch notes for mutalisk - bio damage on spores, plenty changes on phoenix, liberator, thor change, mine... Mutalisk is a problematic unit but instead of changing the root of the problem they are bending everything around it.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
BurningRanger
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany303 Posts
February 19 2016 09:05 GMT
#189
Really great changes with the right reasons behind them! Can't wait for them to be implemented!
My Livestream: http://www.twitch.tv/burningranger | My youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/BurningR4nger
RandomAccount#216215
Profile Joined September 2011
76 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-19 09:16:51
February 19 2016 09:14 GMT
#190
--- Nuked ---
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
February 19 2016 09:22 GMT
#191
I don't think i've ever seen such an overwhelming majority agree in the polls with all the proposed changes. Sc2 is alive
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Mugen93
Profile Joined May 2015
16 Posts
February 19 2016 09:22 GMT
#192
So for Terran there will be pretty much the same of hots now, no new micro, no new mechanics, maybe is time to switch race cause this is really boring.
cmdspinner1
Profile Joined February 2014
140 Posts
February 19 2016 09:26 GMT
#193
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this in this thread: what if you left the pickup of sieged tanks in the game, but have the tanks unsieged when they are dropped again. This would help to salvage tanks in peril, but wouldn't be as good offensively and thus improve TvT.
Isualin
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1903 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-19 09:37:05
February 19 2016 09:36 GMT
#194
On February 19 2016 18:22 Mugen93 wrote:
So for Terran there will be pretty much the same of hots now, no new micro, no new mechanics, maybe is time to switch race cause this is really boring.

I am not talking about balance of these units here but i am also jealous of the new toys protoss and zerg has with lotv. Warp prism range upgrade, lurkers, vipers with parasitic bomb, disruptors, ravagers and adepts are both cool and effective.

Liberators certainly has a lot of utility(short range anti air, mineral line harass, sieging and zoning) but their liberation ability does not need a lot of thought. Reapers are much better now but they are still only viable for a few minutes at the beginning of the game.
| INnoVation | The literal god TY | ByuNjwa | LRSL when? |
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28536 Posts
February 19 2016 09:37 GMT
#195
On February 19 2016 17:32 Tresher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2016 08:09 avilo wrote:
Ok 2 things i will write as constructive feedback as a player who's played Mech TvX for literally 95% of my SC2 games over the last 5-6 yrs that the game has been out:

a) Siege tank needs more damage to trade better. It's great blizzard is taking a step here, is it enough damage? Maybe, that's what testing is for to be honest, and if it goes live people will find out pretty fast if it really does make the tank able to hold it's ground better or not.

b) Even a bigger issue with mech...ANTI-AIR. Despite the siege tank sorta sucking...the worse problem is that mech cannot build an auto-attacking anti-air unit like the goliath to dissuade someone from just massing tempest, carrier, liberator, or broodlords.

Mech cyclones/thors need to be strengthened versus air to the point that they actually can kill tempests/carriers/brood/liberators. There previously was a thor change that might have done something like this that was randomly scrapped...

I can tell you 100% that every single mech game played at any decent level always devolves into both players spamming air units because mech can't go up to 8-10 factories and then switch production over to 8-12 goliaths like in SC1.

Along the same lines, tempests are only 4 supply. Liberators are 3 supply. Broodlords are only 4 supply...i have written already two-three long posts about how air units are way too strong in LOTV and in SC2 in general.

I honestly think blizzard has a really easy fix to the late game mass air deathball for all 3 races - increase the supply cost of all major air units in the game. What does this do? It makes it so Terran, Zerg, and Protoss ground armies in lategame always have more supply invested than an army that is pure air.

So if someone wants to turtle to mass air, the player that is making ground units is the one that inherently has more of the advantage, can push the action, and then both players are encouraged to make ground units to constantly fight and trade, rather than turtle into air units that can't be shot at by half of the ground units in the game.

Example changes;

Tempest supply cost increased to 8.
Carrier supply / BC supply increased to 8.
Broodlord supply increased to 6 (corruptor 2 supply, broodlord morph 4 supply).
Liberator supply increased to 4.
Raven supply increased to 3 (along with possible revert of some of the previous nerts in some way).
Viper supply increased to 4 (and parasitic bomb nerf hammered/removed since all these changes fix air).

If something like the above is done, we would not see air dominating every single match-up in every single game in late game.

It's just really frustrating to me as a Mech Terran that when i want to play Mech and be aggressive, i know that i basically can't be because my opponent sees i'm going mech and then starts massing tempests which invalidates every single unit i've built that's not a viking or raven.

I can show everyone here a replay pack of about 10-20+ Mech TvP that i have attempted and every single one Protoss scouts i'm "going mech" and then the game devolves into 4-10 tempests forcing me to sit in base and turtle into 15-25 vikings because there's not a single unit, including mass mine, that can fight mass tempest that has splash damage underneath. The same applies to TvT - bio Terran will just start spamming 100% liberator+viking and if you do not turtle into mass viking/raven/liberator yourself you autolose the game.

Mech needs an auto-attacking anti-air unit, and air needs to be toned down.

All these great changes and you are still not satisfied -_- . This is a great step in the right direction of making ground Mech better. One step at a time. First make ground Mech good then we can look into the Anti-Air problem.

Seriously. Stop fucking whining.

You can agree with his post or not but I don't see how it is whining. It seems you just don't want him to express his opinion at all which is unreasonable, to put it mildly.
I Protoss winner, could it be?
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12133 Posts
February 19 2016 09:40 GMT
#196
On February 19 2016 18:22 Mugen93 wrote:
So for Terran there will be pretty much the same of hots now, no new micro, no new mechanics, maybe is time to switch race cause this is really boring.

Nothing new, except for Liberators(new micro, new mechanics). Nothing new in micro department except for reaper grenades that can, I don't know, move queens of the ramp so your hellions can get into the zerg base. No new cyclone and no new micro with its lock on mechanics...

But yeah, NOTHING NEW.

Blizzard, how dare you! You released Terran expansion first so they don't get too many new goodies later! That's so evil!!


My sarcasm detector is probably off or I really don't know where do these people come from
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
February 19 2016 09:40 GMT
#197
On February 19 2016 18:22 Mugen93 wrote:
So for Terran there will be pretty much the same of hots now, no new micro, no new mechanics, maybe is time to switch race cause this is really boring.

Reaper and cyclone.But it only has use in early game so kinda let down.
Right now terran is more positional and i like it.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
February 19 2016 09:42 GMT
#198
The Cyclone could use some love. Maybe in lower cost or better anti air.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Senkii
Profile Joined December 2012
Hungary37 Posts
February 19 2016 09:47 GMT
#199
Why are the negative votes split into 3 different bars?
dNa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany591 Posts
February 19 2016 09:47 GMT
#200
all of those proposed changes are terrible...? game seems pretty great the way it is. Please don't take tankivacs away
"a pitchfork is for hay. a trident is for killing bitches." -djwheat
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