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On February 02 2016 03:40 Makro wrote:
i was hyped until i saw firegod's contribution
Haha I am sorry :D
At least, This tournament might show to everybody how bad the ladder is right now (and thus maybe Blizzard will do something to fix this).
It is a big issue because it prevents new people who don't have many contacts among pro players to practice.
Many people talk about the problem to find new talents in korea but it is the same problem in Europe because new talents can't get practice and thus become strong players.
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So will blizzard open gm today so this competition will start for the pros xD
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If we are worried about ladder and matchmaking maybe this is a good thing Blizzard is doing this. It will help expose any of the glaring issues and Blizzard will be forced to fix them if they want to keep up the quality of the competition.
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Interesting, I wonder how this change will playout.
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On February 02 2016 01:58 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2016 01:36 Musicus wrote:On February 02 2016 01:32 FireCake wrote:
It is a good idea because almost no pro players are playing on ladder right now (the matchmaking makes the ladder useless). We might have some funny ladder games and stream might be more interesting for viewers.
But...
The matchmaking has been broken for months and is still broken, you can abuse the system by saving your bonus pool and use it just before the end of the qualifier. Not to mention that people can trade win very easily, it has been done many time in the past when koreans players had to play hundreds games to participate in the WCS.
It would be a lot better to use MMR to rank people and not points. I still love the fact that they are putting this system in place. Sure there are problems with it for now, but since they are aiming at a ladder revamp anyway, it will be really cool in the long run I think. Win traders usually get caught in ladder qualifers like in Shoutcraft or Destiny I and get disqualified. How do you detect win traders ? Most of time nothing is done with cheaters so I am worried with this qualifier. Many people share their account, how do you deal with this ? In WCS it is forbidden to use skin units, on ladder it is allowed. So in this qualifier it is allowed to cheat... There are many many problems with this qualifier and it seems they are not ready for this or they simply don't care ...
iAsonu and XY were suspend from WCS America 2014 because they win traded, so there is punishment for this
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13423452444#1
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I think this is a major step forward. This gives amateur players an extremely clear and defined path towards going pro. No longer it is "be good at ladder and ... I guess show up and be good at tournaments." This makes it so your actual practice (you can argue how good ladder is for practice but lets pretend here for a sec) is closely intertwined with how you can go pro in the game. I love it.
Two notes though: They really, really need Ladder 2.0 for this to work. As it stands you can miss getting in GM and now suddenly you can't qualify because no matter how well you play if GM is full you're not qualifying. That isn't right. When they release Ladder 2.0 that has GM as GM + Masters that should solve this problem, though.
Next is they simply have to be more aggressive and more proactive about hacking. No more "Oh yeah that guy who is #8 on GM is an obvious maphacker" shit. Ideally prevent it outright but since we don't live in a perfect world they'll need some people who's main focus of their job is to monitor hacking reports and react swiftly.
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Like him or not, Catz makes a difference.
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Oh
Totalbiscuit should be pleased and given credit for this : P
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us.battle.net
Now this post actually makes sense and you can call Grand Master: Pro and Master: Semi Pro 
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On February 02 2016 04:08 ivancype wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2016 01:58 FireCake wrote:On February 02 2016 01:36 Musicus wrote:On February 02 2016 01:32 FireCake wrote:
It is a good idea because almost no pro players are playing on ladder right now (the matchmaking makes the ladder useless). We might have some funny ladder games and stream might be more interesting for viewers.
But...
The matchmaking has been broken for months and is still broken, you can abuse the system by saving your bonus pool and use it just before the end of the qualifier. Not to mention that people can trade win very easily, it has been done many time in the past when koreans players had to play hundreds games to participate in the WCS.
It would be a lot better to use MMR to rank people and not points. I still love the fact that they are putting this system in place. Sure there are problems with it for now, but since they are aiming at a ladder revamp anyway, it will be really cool in the long run I think. Win traders usually get caught in ladder qualifers like in Shoutcraft or Destiny I and get disqualified. How do you detect win traders ? Most of time nothing is done with cheaters so I am worried with this qualifier. Many people share their account, how do you deal with this ? In WCS it is forbidden to use skin units, on ladder it is allowed. So in this qualifier it is allowed to cheat... There are many many problems with this qualifier and it seems they are not ready for this or they simply don't care ... iAsonu and XY were suspend from WCS America 2014 because they win traded, so there is punishment for this http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13423452444#1
They were not very careful, there are other players that have been hiding their win trades a lot better.
It is really not difficult to chat somewhere else than the bnet client to ask for win trades.
But I think the worst thing in this qualifier is that people are always sharing their accounts on ladder and thus the MMR of many top players on the ladder is not calculated by the wins of the owner of the account.
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On February 02 2016 04:46 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2016 04:08 ivancype wrote:On February 02 2016 01:58 FireCake wrote:On February 02 2016 01:36 Musicus wrote:On February 02 2016 01:32 FireCake wrote:
It is a good idea because almost no pro players are playing on ladder right now (the matchmaking makes the ladder useless). We might have some funny ladder games and stream might be more interesting for viewers.
But...
The matchmaking has been broken for months and is still broken, you can abuse the system by saving your bonus pool and use it just before the end of the qualifier. Not to mention that people can trade win very easily, it has been done many time in the past when koreans players had to play hundreds games to participate in the WCS.
It would be a lot better to use MMR to rank people and not points. I still love the fact that they are putting this system in place. Sure there are problems with it for now, but since they are aiming at a ladder revamp anyway, it will be really cool in the long run I think. Win traders usually get caught in ladder qualifers like in Shoutcraft or Destiny I and get disqualified. How do you detect win traders ? Most of time nothing is done with cheaters so I am worried with this qualifier. Many people share their account, how do you deal with this ? In WCS it is forbidden to use skin units, on ladder it is allowed. So in this qualifier it is allowed to cheat... There are many many problems with this qualifier and it seems they are not ready for this or they simply don't care ... iAsonu and XY were suspend from WCS America 2014 because they win traded, so there is punishment for this http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13423452444#1 They were not very careful, there are other players that have been hiding their win trades a lot better. It is really not difficult to chat somewhere else than the bnet client to ask for win trades. But I think the worst thing in this qualifier is that people are always sharing their accounts on ladder and thus the MMR of many top players on the ladder is not calculated by the wins of the owner of the account.
I think many of your concerns could be solved via some big data processing assuming they're collecting it. If someone is suspected of sharing accounts it should be fairly easy to tell based upon hotkeys, APM, IP address, MAC address(? doubt they would collect that) and easily solved that this is clearly two separate people playing the game.
For the win trading I feel they could generate trends as well. Where these two players have about a 50% winrate when playing each other, their match time is below the average across the ladder so these players get flagged. Then human intervention could determine if these two are in fact win trading.
I highly doubt any of this infrastructure is in place, though.
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Where are all the people who always complain that the TL community is too negative? You see? This is an update that people actually like and you see almost exlusively positive responses. (or at least not negative ones)
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using ladder is so stupid. There are maphackers, people using bonus pool, etc. They can find a better method.
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Weren't they discussing getting rid of bonus pool in the ladder revamp?
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On February 02 2016 04:50 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2016 04:46 FireCake wrote:On February 02 2016 04:08 ivancype wrote:On February 02 2016 01:58 FireCake wrote:On February 02 2016 01:36 Musicus wrote:On February 02 2016 01:32 FireCake wrote:
It is a good idea because almost no pro players are playing on ladder right now (the matchmaking makes the ladder useless). We might have some funny ladder games and stream might be more interesting for viewers.
But...
The matchmaking has been broken for months and is still broken, you can abuse the system by saving your bonus pool and use it just before the end of the qualifier. Not to mention that people can trade win very easily, it has been done many time in the past when koreans players had to play hundreds games to participate in the WCS.
It would be a lot better to use MMR to rank people and not points. I still love the fact that they are putting this system in place. Sure there are problems with it for now, but since they are aiming at a ladder revamp anyway, it will be really cool in the long run I think. Win traders usually get caught in ladder qualifers like in Shoutcraft or Destiny I and get disqualified. How do you detect win traders ? Most of time nothing is done with cheaters so I am worried with this qualifier. Many people share their account, how do you deal with this ? In WCS it is forbidden to use skin units, on ladder it is allowed. So in this qualifier it is allowed to cheat... There are many many problems with this qualifier and it seems they are not ready for this or they simply don't care ... iAsonu and XY were suspend from WCS America 2014 because they win traded, so there is punishment for this http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13423452444#1 They were not very careful, there are other players that have been hiding their win trades a lot better. It is really not difficult to chat somewhere else than the bnet client to ask for win trades. But I think the worst thing in this qualifier is that people are always sharing their accounts on ladder and thus the MMR of many top players on the ladder is not calculated by the wins of the owner of the account. I think many of your concerns could be solved via some big data processing assuming they're collecting it. If someone is suspected of sharing accounts it should be fairly easy to tell based upon hotkeys, APM, IP address, MAC address(? doubt they would collect that) and easily solved that this is clearly two separate people playing the game. For the win trading I feel they could generate trends as well. Where these two players have about a 50% winrate when playing each other, their match time is below the average across the ladder so these players get flagged. Then human intervention could determine if these two are in fact win trading. I highly doubt any of this infrastructure is in place, though.
I agree, this is why I would prefer a new ladder system then to promote it they could do this qualifier.
This qualifier will show all the issues of the ladder instead of promoting the benefit of the future ladder
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If they don't fix the "leave league" bug the ladder is pretty much useless at the top level
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On February 02 2016 05:12 FireCake wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2016 04:50 Tenks wrote:On February 02 2016 04:46 FireCake wrote:On February 02 2016 04:08 ivancype wrote:On February 02 2016 01:58 FireCake wrote:On February 02 2016 01:36 Musicus wrote:On February 02 2016 01:32 FireCake wrote:
It is a good idea because almost no pro players are playing on ladder right now (the matchmaking makes the ladder useless). We might have some funny ladder games and stream might be more interesting for viewers.
But...
The matchmaking has been broken for months and is still broken, you can abuse the system by saving your bonus pool and use it just before the end of the qualifier. Not to mention that people can trade win very easily, it has been done many time in the past when koreans players had to play hundreds games to participate in the WCS.
It would be a lot better to use MMR to rank people and not points. I still love the fact that they are putting this system in place. Sure there are problems with it for now, but since they are aiming at a ladder revamp anyway, it will be really cool in the long run I think. Win traders usually get caught in ladder qualifers like in Shoutcraft or Destiny I and get disqualified. How do you detect win traders ? Most of time nothing is done with cheaters so I am worried with this qualifier. Many people share their account, how do you deal with this ? In WCS it is forbidden to use skin units, on ladder it is allowed. So in this qualifier it is allowed to cheat... There are many many problems with this qualifier and it seems they are not ready for this or they simply don't care ... iAsonu and XY were suspend from WCS America 2014 because they win traded, so there is punishment for this http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13423452444#1 They were not very careful, there are other players that have been hiding their win trades a lot better. It is really not difficult to chat somewhere else than the bnet client to ask for win trades. But I think the worst thing in this qualifier is that people are always sharing their accounts on ladder and thus the MMR of many top players on the ladder is not calculated by the wins of the owner of the account. I think many of your concerns could be solved via some big data processing assuming they're collecting it. If someone is suspected of sharing accounts it should be fairly easy to tell based upon hotkeys, APM, IP address, MAC address(? doubt they would collect that) and easily solved that this is clearly two separate people playing the game. For the win trading I feel they could generate trends as well. Where these two players have about a 50% winrate when playing each other, their match time is below the average across the ladder so these players get flagged. Then human intervention could determine if these two are in fact win trading. I highly doubt any of this infrastructure is in place, though. I agree, this is why I would prefer a new ladder system then to promote it they could do this qualifier. This qualifier will show all the issues of the ladder instead of promoting the benefit of the future ladder
There may be some kinks in the system to iron out not 100% associated with the ladder. I do agree this system seems to put the cart in front of the horse since it feels like it would work out better with their revamped ladder in place. But since it sounded like that won't be out until Spring/Summer they probably just wanted to try out this system and refine it to have a better system in place for when the new ladder actually launches.
For all we know Blizzard has been hard at work on some of this automated detection and they're ready to really test it out which is why it has started now. Blizzard would be wise to be secret about how they are addressing or plan on addressing the extremely valid concerns you're bringing up. So I wouldn't take silence as an absence of a plan until we see inaction against known offenders.
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On February 02 2016 01:20 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +Players will be required to play under the name that they wish to use during the WCS Circuit Winter Championship. A free character name change was provided to every account on January 29th. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees! Die barcodes, die!!! Damn, this is great news.
So nice to see! Also this will spice up the ladder, i really like it.
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Fighting barcodes !
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EPT
