EPTOn February 01 2016 23:45 lichter wrote:
wtf you didn't use EM DASHES you heathen
wtf you didn't use EM DASHES you heathen
I agree, it's hard - but not impossible - to read... jk
thanks for the entertaining, yet analytical, article!
The SC2 Community's Identity Crisis - Page 8
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MrMischelito
347 Posts
I agree, it's hard - but not impossible - to read... jk thanks for the entertaining, yet analytical, article! | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On February 02 2016 23:03 iloveav wrote: In broodwar we had the same version for years and strategies keep on showing up even to this day (although much less commonly, thats a given). Simply because when you try to make everyone happy, nobody is in the end. Following "expert" community advises about how to nerf or buff one thing or another never works in the first place. (Sorry for BW examples, but truth is, it's the best example of a well engineered strategy game). Look at BW units, some of them are insanely overpowered but it works. And this what always made it so entertaining. Just one lucky reaver shot, an unlucky dropship or even a single corsair lost to scourge could be the end of you so high was the skill level. You even woke up at 4am to watch the games. How crazy is that? | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On February 02 2016 23:03 iloveav wrote: While I dont have a huge interest in this matter (I am more of a broodwar gamer rather than SC2), I think there are a few things people have to consider: A) Marketing/money: If we think about what teams want and what sponsors want, we will get a different picture than what fans want. B) WCS Region lock vs no region lock is in my opinion a bad debate: If the reason we region lock is to allow lower skill player (who would have not made it otherwise) to get to a certain part of the tournament, they will still get eliminated by the higher skill players, only a little bit later. My problem is that Blizzard is taking upon itself to be the deciding party (anyone asked blizzard to do this?). In all other tournaments, the invites are what the tournaments organizers "believe" to be the best choice for getting massive viewership. Those that will make the right calls, will prosper, those that dont, will fall, leaving more room for those that prospered. If however one company can put pressure over most of the big tournaments and they have a monopoly on decision making, how will they know if they are doing the right thing. If you cant compare yourself to someone else... you have no meter for success or failure, and you are unable to make corrections accordingly. C) Blizzard with balance patches: This is something I simply dont get. In broodwar we had the same version for years and strategies keep on showing up even to this day (although much less commonly, thats a given). Blizzard seems to think in terms of "this is the way people like to play, but if they do, X is imbalanced to Y so we should change something" instead of "people need to figure out how to deal with X with something different than Y". That being said, there are some things that are flat out insane.... Please note that this is just my opinion and I rearly watch sc2 with passion, so I am probably less informed than many around there. The fact remains: DH wasn't planning to have SC2 at the event. There ended up being one there because Blizzard stepped up. So maybe no one asked them to do it, but nobody else was doing it... | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
Honestly, I am entertained and satisfied by both styles, though I do have a slight preference to the "hardcore" information. I really miss those Day[9] dailies =*( | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
I think the more natural thing to blame is interest of the game decreasing. I only come to this site for BW and wouldn't have seen this thread otherwise, while I used to superficially follow sc2, it's not a thing for me anymore. | ||
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
On February 03 2016 06:02 boxerfred wrote: im done with sc2 due to various reasons. Can you elaborate? Is it related with the topic in discussion? | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On February 03 2016 06:10 Xamo wrote: Can you elaborate? Is it related with the topic in discussion? Yes. It's basically three things. 1. WCS 2016 system, absolutely not liking it 2. Life matchfixing 3. Not having fun at playing the game. | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On February 03 2016 05:02 Iplaythings wrote: I think it's the same thing with people who go watch a football match, one might go there for the atmossphere of the crowd related to football, while another wants to support their team and a third one might want to just enjoy high level plays. This is natural in sports and I fail to see why it'd be a particular problem to sc2 at all. I think the more natural thing to blame is interest of the game decreasing. I only come to this site for BW and wouldn't have seen this thread otherwise, while I used to superficially follow sc2, it's not a thing for me anymore. That's a very good example of how it can (and should) work. It does require that the broadcasts be more neutral and appropriate fans can then find the extras they crave from shows - very similar to the different content that can be found between football matches. | ||
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SpunXtain20
Australia554 Posts
I just wanted to weigh in and ask - why is this article featured? Did DarkLordOlli self-feature himself or what? So the reason I'm asking is - this is basically just an article about his random whiny opinion. My understanding was that featured/headline news is for major tournaments and significant pieces of critical analysis. This is neither - it is just a random whiny opinion. The reason why this is a random whiny opinion: Random: No analysis has been included at all - in fact, it starts off with an unsubstantiated premise that 'fun' and 'competitive' are a mutually exclusive dichotomy, but gives absolutely no rationale why this is the case other than it suits the agenda he is trying to push. Whiny: Basically things aren't going his way (i.e. he doesn't like region locking) so he is making a post based on his own agenda. I strongly doubt he would have written this post if he liked region locking, or prior to region locking. Opinion: This is DarkLordOlli's own opinion only - he has clearly not done any, or at minimum a very limited amount of investigation into others' views on the topic before posting about it. This is not written as an issues paper or discussion paper, it is simply his statement of fact without any research. My concerns are growing that the TL Writers group are becoming a bit cliquey. Certain writers are somehow ending up time and again in the featured articles section for writing that isn't necessarily good. Some writers, such as Stuchiu, are at least putting in the yards to verify their arguments and I applaud that. The reason I am strongly against this article in particular is that Olli is trying to cultivate an 'us vs them' mentality between Starcraft fans. The initial premise that there are 'casuals' and 'hardcores' is absurd, and is a contributing reason for why many other communities, such as HoN and Dota, have such toxic communities. At the end of the day, we all play for fun. Starcraft is a recreational activity. The argument he is trying to push is that people watching foreign tournaments are scrubs who only care about fun, and people watching Korean tournaments are pros who only care about skill. In both of these instances, a viewer has taken to an external media to learn more about the game - does that not make them 'hardcore'? Olli believes that his clique - TL writers, and those who contribute heavily to the forums - are the only hardcore fans of Starcraft. This is nonsense. I feel bad for Blizzard because they constantly have to deal with these keyboard warriors who write unsubstantiated crap. Blizzard can't really respond and tell them that, because it's bad for their image, and also costs resources that are better spent actually improving the game and the game model. They have a problem with Starcraft II that eSports has never really faced before, that being that all progamers essentially were cultivated in the one region even before Starcraft II was released (stemmed from Broodwar). This really isn't their own doing and they have very little ability to influence it, but the way they can is by making sure foreign players have an incentive to keep playing and keep improving. The only way to do that is by ensuring they have a chance at winning tournament prize money. Region locking may have downsides in the short term, but it is a valid long-term approach to try and fix a systemic issue that means not all Starcraft progamers have equal opportunities. We don't need random whiny opinions trying to compromise that. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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SpunXtain20
Australia554 Posts
I wonder if the TL writers need some more stringent rules on what can and can't be considered featured news? | ||
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SpunXtain20
Australia554 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On February 03 2016 07:06 DarkLordOlli wrote: Haha, I've missed you! How's life? Under arrest | ||
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DSK
England1110 Posts
On February 02 2016 01:57 Destructicon wrote: I find it hilarious how people still believe the myth that isolating scenes will lead to strengthening each region. If that were the case the EU, NA and China regions would be equal to Korea, which isn't the case, since, baring the first worlds, Korea has won each and every time, they might even be getting progressively better as last year was the first with an all Korean final. No, isolating the scenes is not the solution, what Blizzard actually needs to do is to promote the creation of team houses and focused practice, it needs to encourage teams to hire coaches, it needs to create the equivalent of a Proleague for EU and NA. Because to be frank, Korea has all the right elements to create the best players in the world, yes its true they have a culture of perfectionism and discipline that pushes them ever forward, but they also have team houses, with actual focused practice a regular team league to get them motivated and awesome coaching staff. Until Blizzard stops trying to screw Korea and actually starts working to try and build up EU and NA, not throw welfare money at them, the regions will never grow in skill and the Koreans will always be better. I agree with Destruction. I think the whole Korean scene is something the Foreign scene should try to emulate. I haven't followed Brood War, but I know thanks largely to the Lickpiddy and this very website that SKT1 is stoked in history - BoxeR and iloveoov played and coached for the team - iloveoov helped lead SKT1 to epic heights last year with the Proleague win and various standout performances of it's players. Here are the storylines, folks. SKT1 has a rivalry with KTRolster and has done since BW. Again, storylines, history, folklore even. The Korean productions also offer entertainment, such as "10 Questions", opportunities to see oldschool teams like SKT1, KTRolster play live, the GSL group selections/nominations (storylines!). We simply don't have that in Foreignland - and it makes sense considering it's effectively "The rest of the world, minus South Korea". However, a Blizz-sanctioned forum to enable this sort of thing would be a start. It seems like events such as Nation Wars III get people's blood flowing and then it stops. I for one was surprised and Elated for France when they beat Korea - imagine watching something similar to this in one big, distribued Proleague-esque event all year long. Amazing. Team houses and the infrastructure to support them needs to be in place in order to allow players to truly focus on improving their skills and capacity to play the game, coaches need to be employed to mentor and (as we've heard from iloveoov himself from his recent interview) find ways to attach other player's and what they are liable to do badly against race/match-up/build-wise. Salaries also need to be able to allow players to actually make a living by doing the above without worrying about financial problems. But I digress. I'm probably talking out of my ass anyway   | ||
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SpunXtain20
Australia554 Posts
On February 03 2016 07:13 DarkLordOlli wrote: Quick explanation - it's called an editorial, and I did one! Maybe you should read it again! The premise is actually one that says we should stop fighting and start looking for solutions to make everyone feel welcome again. That kinda contradicts everything you said there ;( Oh yeah whoops! Sorry! | ||
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Jaedrik
113 Posts
The position must be proven before I can accept the proceeding argument. At a base level, it seems like a false dichotomy. I assert that designing / whatever for fun and competition are not mutually exclusive, and rather are mutually beneficial. I also assert that SC2 multiplayer has neither fun nor competitive design, and point to this as the primary culprit of it dying. | ||
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
On February 03 2016 06:17 boxerfred wrote: Yes. It's basically three things. 1. WCS 2016 system, absolutely not liking it 2. Life matchfixing 3. Not having fun at playing the game. Although WCS is obviously worse than before, I think there are alternatives. SPL is so good... Life though... Shit. But for me the most important point would be nr 3. I hope you find something else you can be passionate about, it is not the end of the world. | ||
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